Crunchy Con

Of kooks and religious Brits

Friday December 7, 2007

The Rt. Rev. Massie responds to my contention that while I wish US political culture didn't require Romney to do what he did, it's preferable to British political culture, in which politicians are afraid to talk about religion for fear of being denounced as kooks. Excerpts from Alex's post:

First, from a political view Blair's press handlers were quite right to stop him "doing God". The consequences would have been calamitous.

Well, yeah, doesn't that make my point? I wasn't saying the Blair advisers were wrong; I was regretting that they were right.

More importantly, however, Blair was only the hired help. Who is he to proselytise in this or any fashion? The only non-ordained person in Britain who can invoke God without fear of ridicule is Her Majesty herself.

Well, I don't see how a prime minister talking about God is necessarily proselytizing. I wouldn't be eager for my leader to proselytize either. What rankles is the idea that even to have brought up faith would have been to have invited a "calamitous" reaction. That strikes me as odd, and unpleasant.

More:

But Brown and Thatcher had the good sense to keep their religion private. In part this is simple good manners. Religion, after all, is one of the three subjects you're not supposed to talk about at table. But it's also a recognition that religion is easily counterfeited and never more so than when it enters the public realm. At that point - as, surely, the American political system helps demonstrate - religion easily becomes just another form of advertising. Worse still, it's cheapened by the campaign process and, surely, risks seeming little more than a perjurous character-witness for shameless hucksters peddling the latest miracle cure.

I can agree with that, which is why I like Ron Paul's comments on same the other day, which I found on Andrew Sullivan's blog:

"We live in times of great uncertainty when men of faith must stand up for American values and traditions before they are washed away in a sea of fear and relativism. I have never been one who is particularly comfortable talking about my faith in the political arena, and I find the pandering that typically occurs in the election season to be distasteful. Our nation was founded to be a place where religion is freely practiced and differences are tolerated and respected. I come to my faith through Jesus Christ and have accepted him as my personal savior. At the same time, I have worked tirelessly to defend and restore individual rights and religious freedom for all Americans.

The recent attacks and insinuations, both direct and subtle, that Gov. Romney may be less fit to serve as president of our United States because of his faith fly in the face of everything America stands for. Gov. Romney should be judged fairly, on his record and his character, not on the church he attends."

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Comments
elizabeth
December 7, 2007 2:43 PM

"What rankles is the idea that even to have brought up faith would have been to have invited a "calamitous" reaction. That strikes me as odd, and unpleasant."

Aren't we lucky that it is odd an unpleasant.

Maybe the British reaction has to do with British history, which includes massive religious persecutions by those in political power. Citizens imprisoned, burned, beheaded, etc. Not just one time or by one side of the Catholic/Protestant argument.

Who instituted an ugly "war on Christmas" centuries ago? Puritan Oliver Cromwell, who wanted to rid the land of "pagan" (read: Catholic) influences and forbade public celebration of the holiday. He ordered shops to stay open Christmas Day and punishments for singing carols.

Europeans have longer historical memories - having longer national histories - than Americans. Let the Brits run their politics in accordance with the sensibilities of their culture and history. They came to some peace in the land by concluding that politics should be non-religious. We wouldn't want the US to run according to British norms. We shouldn't expect them to run according to ours.

Simon
December 7, 2007 6:20 PM

elizabeth,

The problem with your history is that the "politics should be non-religious" view has developed in the U.K. only in recent decades.

Sure, you can come up with plenty of examples of religious nastiness in British history from the 16th and 17th centuries. But that epoch didn't cause a secularization of public life.

From the late 18th through early 20th centuries British public discourse was awash in religion, and it had nothing to do with persecution. The anti-slavery movement was a direct outgrowth of that discourse. In its 19th century heyday, the Liberal Party was fueled heavily by "Nonconformist" (evangelical) voters. And the party's greatest leader, William Gladstone, ironically used his spare time to write polemical works on behalf of High Church Anglicanism.

The banishment of religion from U.K. public life is not a reaction to Reformation-era troubles. It's a result of the very recent and now almost total collapse of the UK's established churches -- Anglican in England and Presbyterian in Scotland -- which has created a culture dominated by spiritual apathy, lukewarmness and skepticism.

Cushy Butterfield
December 7, 2007 6:23 PM

I don't know whether the not 'doing God' policy comes more from British history (although religion and politics have a long and mostly dishonourable history in the UK) or from British reserve. We're loosening up, but there's a wide streak of reserve and privacy in the British character. Religion virtually defines private to the average Brit. We're aware that there are religious people and that's fine as long as it's between consenting adults and they don't do it out in public where everyone has to watch. I'm not being completely facetious here. Kate Fox, in her book, Watching the English says that we accept people being sincere, but not earnest. Get too close to personal matters in conversation and you'll have people backing away. I wouldn't expect my neighbour to start talking to me about his faith, so why would I want a politician to?

To give an example, on her first Conservative election victory Margaret Thatcher quoted the Francis of Assisi prayer 'where there is discord let us sow peace'. The entire country squirmed in embarassment. She took the hint and was never that overtly religious in public again.

And anyway, we all know that the realities of politics mean that faith principles are going to be compromised, so why make a big song and dance about them in the first place?

Alicia
December 7, 2007 7:03 PM

This is a great post, Rod. I am heading out for a week's vacation, and I don't have a home computer at present so I will not have time to respond to this but I wanted to wish you and those on this board a peaceful, meditative Advent and a Happy Hanukkah.

rombald
December 8, 2007 10:19 AM

I feel torn about this whole area.

I would kind of like politicians to be more open about the religious or irreligious backings to their policies. I kind of like the whole idea of people having hinterlands. I hate that "Don't do God" thing about Blair.

One point is that in England (but not the rest of the UK), Anglicanism often was, and sometimes still is, associated with respectability and conventional morality, and not seen as overtly religious. Other forms of Christianity are seen as more or less dodgy. Homegrown Nonconformism is seen as bigoted, uncultured and lower-class. Continental Catholicism is seen as dodgy and fascist-leaning, whereas the Irish version is seen as like Nonconformism but worse. Modern US-type evangelicalism is seen as tacky, commercial and stupid. Therefore, Anglicans don't feel a need to play up their religion, and members of other churches are nervous about doing so.

However, I don't really think that any country gets the balance right. I don't like the look of the USA, where it's impossible for an atheist (or pagan or Buddhist, etc.) to get far in politics. Presumably this just means that there are a lot of clever atheist liars in Senate and Congress. France is nearly the opposite, where a religious politician has to actively conceal his/her faith in order to be acceptable. In some Catholic countries, the Church has a pretty creepy relationship with the state. The countries most like England in this respect are the Netherlands and Scandinavia, which, surprise, surprise, are the other places with semi-moribund Protestant state churches.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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