That's what Andrew Sullivan's calling the president, with solid justification, after this CIA evidence-destroying scandal. This is breathtaking stuff. Here's the speech given today by Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, about the claims of executive power asserted by Bush, and okayed by the Justice Dept's Office of Legal Counsel, according to the senator, who has seen them:
For years under the Bush Administration, the Office of Legal Counsel within the Department of Justice has issued highly classified secret legal opinions related to surveillance. This is an administration that hates answering to an American court, that wants to grade its own papers, and OLC is the inside place the administration goes to get legal support for its spying program. As a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, I was given access to those opinions, and spent hours poring over them. Sitting in that secure room, as a lawyer, as a former U.S. Attorney, legal counsel to Rhode Island’s Governor, and State Attorney General, I was increasingly dismayed and amazed as I read on. To give you an example of what I read, I have gotten three legal propositions from these OLC opinions declassified. Here they are, as accurately as my note taking could reproduce them from the classified documents. Listen for yourself. I will read all three, and then discuss each one. 1. An executive order cannot limit a President. There is no constitutional requirement for a President to issue a new executive order whenever he wishes to depart from the terms of a previous executive order. Rather than violate an executive order, the President has instead modified or waived it.2. The President, exercising his constitutional authority under Article II, can determine whether an action is a lawful exercise of the President’s authority under Article II.
3. The Department of Justice is bound by the President’s legal determinations.
I want these opinions published. I want to see if Sen. Whitehouse is giving an accurate account. If he is, I'm sorry, but this is -- what's the word? -- tyrannical.
As far as the CIA thing goes, it looks like obstruction of justice, at least. Here's conservative blogger Ed Morrissey's take:
Frankly, the timing stinks. The tapes sat unmolested in a vault for at least two years without the CIA worrying about the potential damage from a leak. The Inspector General had long since concluded that the interrogations did not break the law. However, as soon as Congress began debating the specific interrogation technique that the tapes depicted, someone decided that they represented a danger to the agents. It looks a lot more like destroying evidence than tightening security.
James Joyner, also a conservative, says:
There were tapes. The tapes were subpoenaed, their existence was denied, and they were subsequently destroyed. ... People have gone to jail for obstruction of justice for actions much, much less brazen than this.
Hate to admit it, but Teddy K. is right:
The videotapes showed agency operatives in 2002 subjecting terrorism suspects — including Abu Zubaydah, the first detainee in C.I.A. custody — to severe interrogation techniques. The tapes were destroyed in part because officers were concerned that video showing harsh interrogation methods could expose agency officials to legal risks, several officials said.“But that excuse won’t wash,” Senator Kennedy said today. “Does the director believe the C.I.A.’s buildings are not secure? Would it be beyond the agency’s technical expertise to preserve the tapes while hiding the identity of its employees? Does the director believe that the C.I.A.’s employees cannot be trusted not to leak materials that might harm the agency?
“Or does he know that the interrogation techniques are so abhorrent that they could not remain unknown much longer?”
Is this really our country? Where our secret agents torture people, lie to lawmakers about it, and destroy the evidence of their (potential) crime? Where are the Republicans on this?
Richard Milhous Bush. You got that right, Sully.

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It would be nice if the comments were RELEVANT to the content of the column. This column is about the destruction of CIA tapes allegedly showing "severe" interrogation techniques. "Severe" being the spin for what most people with any analytical ability would call "torture" at this point. However, this spin is consistent with the Pharisitcal use of language and mindset that has been on-going in this administration. Not for nothing were the Biblical Pharisees called whited sepulchres. If you spin it and beat the drum long enough in this fantasyland that our Capitol has become, it makes it so. Except a lie by any other name is still a lie. The truth will set us free -- if the newspapers and media deign to disseminate it without bowing to the power of money and the bottom line -- and some things are without price. The ability to be informed by facts -- not opinions, not spin -- is the food that maintains a healthy body politic and enables it to make sound decisions with a clear head.
"So, do I call Kline a liar, or must I beat around the bush and politely suggest that he was mistaken?...I respect your opposition to the ACLU's stance on issues. I can never accept the consequent tactic of blaming the ACLU for those issues." Franklin Evans
Here are more people you can call liars, Franklin:
Wendy Murphy, an O'Reilly Factor guest and the former Assistant District Attorney for Middlesex County, Massachusetts, said that the ACLU filed an amicus brief in the Kansas Supreme Court Limon case which makes it appear that the ACLU believes children as young as 13 have a constitutional right to have sex with adults. [Yeah, but what the heck does she know, right, Franklin.]
John Hanna, AP, wrote that Tamara Lange, Limon's ACLU attorney from San Francisco acknowledged that the ACLU said teenagers have the constitutional right to make personal decisions about marriage and sex, subject to state interest. [Limon's attorney also is lying.]
Clayton Cramer's BLOG contained a comment from a Professor Volokh, claiming that Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, back when she worked for the ACLU, argued for lowering the age of consent to 12. Ginsburg's proposal recommended the replacement of a sex-specific age of consent of 16 with a sex-neutral age of consent of 12. QUOTE Volokh pointed out that back in the late 1970s, "quite a number of liberals thought this was a very cool idea."The National Coalition of Gay Organizations' "1972 Gay Rights Platform in the United States" called for "Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent." According to Laud Humphreys, Out of the Closets: The Sociology of Homosexual Liberation 162 (1972), the meeting at which this was adopted was apparently a pretty mainstream event within the liberal activist movement -- "[s]upportive telegrams were received from Democratic candidates John Lindsay and George McGovern," which suggests that it wasn't just an entirely irrelevant fringe group.) ...Those defending the ACLU refused to believe that the ACLU argued for a constitutional right of minors to have sex with adults. The ACLU's brief is pretty clear on this (see footnote 13 on page 17):
While a teenager’s constitutional rights may be more limited than an adult’s in some circumstances, and while the state is more likely to have a compelling state interest that justifies intruding upon a teenager’s rights, it is well established that teenagers - like adults - have a due process liberty interest in being free from state compulsion in making these types of personal decisions... Because of Limon's prior two adjudications for aggravated criminal sodomy, the [lower] trial court had sentenced Limon to 206 months' imprisonment....
something else interesting about the ACLU's brief in defense of Limon: they are arguing that a minor has a "liberty interest" in having sex free of government compulsion. If they were defending a minor against a criminal charge, this would be at least plausibly related to the question--but in this case, they were defending an adult against a criminal charge. There might well be an equal protection argument based an adult's "liberty interest," but they were defending the adult--not the minor....
The ACLU was arguing for the right of a minor to have sex--but it was really the right of an adult to have sex with a minor who apparently said, "No." This is even more monstrous than I first noticed.
Labels: child sexual abuse, homosexuality. END QUOTE [A bunch of lies!]
Everyone is lying, or must I beat around the bush and politely suggest that they are mistaken?
"This column is about the destruction of CIA tapes allegedly showing "severe" interrogation techniques. "Severe"....a lie by any other name is still a lie...The ability to be informed by facts -- not opinions, not spin -- is the food that maintains a healthy body politic..". Metal_Rabbit_13
Neither the anti-Bush Congress nor the Supreme Court has chosen to define waterboarding as torture. Nor have U.S. Special Ops troops, who actually undergo the procedure, call it torture. So please be careful who you call liars--it doesn't make for a healthy body politic.
If you want to get outraged over the tapes, get outraged at the Clinton Administration CIA operative who disobeyed direct orders from the Bush Administration to not destroy the tapes.
Here is a webpage with links to pdf's for the major legal documents related to Limon v. Kansas: http://www.aclu.org/lgbt/discrim/12143res20050308.html
Did you perhaps misquote Ms. Murphy? You will not find an ACLU amicus brief in the Limon case, the ACLU being of counsel for it.
Other than that, good sir, nolo contendere.
Did you perhaps misquote Ms. Murphy? You will not find an ACLU amicus brief in the Limon case, the ACLU being of counsel for it." Franklin
"Nope, but I too found the word "amicus" strange. This is a direct quote from MEDIAMATTERS, Tue, Nov 29, 2005 7:22pm ET:
"MURPHY: All I can tell you is that they put it in an amicus brief, which is to say that's an expression of their position on this issue, and they did it in the Kansas Supreme Court, so one has to assume that that is their position in general, not unique to Kansas."
So, Franklin, let's say that Ms Murphy meant "brief", not "amicus brief" as were some of the other briefs. Nice catch on your part, but it matters not.
Seems we have beat this thing to a bloody froth. R.I.P. thread.
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