A defense of Obama's Afrocentric pastor

I can't believe I find myself wanting to use the phrase "thank you for sharing" unironically, but thanks, Rebeccat and Rod. Makes me think it might be possible to have that "honest conversation about race" that some people say they want but don't, really. I went to an MLK birthday thing a few days ago and we were asked to write down something we would like to see happen by way of improving race relations. Mine was "that black and white could talk about the problems openly and with good will on both sides."

Unfortunately I'm at work and not at liberty to do so right now. Ironically.

I am sure that as a white man, my life is easier than it would have been if I had been a black man.

It seems to me totally appropriate that blacks resent the current state of affiars in American society.

I'm surprised that resentment isn't expressed more often and more forcefully.

I once asked a Black coworker why a lot of Black churches had the word "greater" in their names - e.g., The Greater Corinthian Apostolic Baptist Church, etc. She told me that the "greater" referred to the fact that the churches and members did more than just meet on Sundays - they served as "Community Central" for Black communities in times past, being banks, places of refuge for travelers who couldn't stay at "whites only" motels, etc., IIRC. Please correct me, someone, if I was misinformed.

Yawn.

An eye-opener. Thanks.

I'm not black. I'm not married to black man. I don't have any black friends. I believe that racism exists. However, I've had more experience or encounters where blacks have cried "foul" over race when the problem was they were either 1)incompetent at the job (2)had such a bad attitude that they couldn't do the job.

My boss, when I lived in Pittsburgh, dealt with an incompetent employee. The idea that my boss was racist was nothing short of laughable. This employee called the NAACP on her.

When I lived in Atlanta, my white male boss changed the rules and reorganized how the nonprofessional staff would prioritize and manage their workload. Only the white employees made the changes. The black employees said, "I'm not going to do that." They didn't, and he didn't have the balls to fire them.

This summer I had a black girl come to my house to sell some magazines to me. She had been given the job of selling them by some organization that was training her for something. I really don't know what it was. First, she told me how she was working for a living. This wasn't charity. Then she told me about her daughter and how selling these magazines would help her to care for her daughter. Then she told me what a difficult job this was because it was soooo hot outside(it was really hot that day). I don't buy magazines from anyone. Not Special Olympics-not any charitable organization.(Basically, I don't like to spend $30 if the charity is only getting about $3). She applied the pressure pretty heavily and when I continued to say "no thank you" she threw down her water bottle and stomped away.

I'm not saying that rebeccat's husband didn't get fired because of racism. However, white males get fired all of the time in the business world. My husband's been fired. Mike Bloomberg's been fired. People get fired all of the time. It often has more to do with personality and fit than anything else. I think that it's too easy to use race as an excuse than to really examine the issue. That prevents learning and growth.

It goes without saying that this treatment should not happen in America.

Black liberation theologians view liberation as the interpretation key through which they read the Old Testament and it's the message of the gospel. When the black reader reads the stories of Israel and their salvation from the bondage of slavery and oppression, they can read their story of hope in Christ. (This is what I have gleaned from my little bit of reading of Hoyt and James Cone.)

It can be a very powerful and uplifting message but is it really the message of Christ? I think particularly of this verse:

1 Peter 3:14 But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, 15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, 16 having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. 17 For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil. 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

But would I fault a black church for preaching a gospel of the liberation that comes through Christ from the oppression of this world? No, not if the pastor also reminded the congregation that they have to remember that their greatest enemy is not their white boss or their white neighbor but themselves and their sin nature.

Along with liberation is the need to share the power of forgiveness of God and the power to forgive others as you have been forgiven. A church that teaches this message wouldn't have to worry about being called racist because that's a message that transcends race.

But would I fault a black church for preaching a gospel of the liberation that comes through Christ from the oppression of this world? No, not if the pastor also reminded the congregation that they have to remember that their greatest enemy is not their white boss or their white neighbor but themselves and their sin nature. Along with liberation is the need to share the power of forgiveness of God and the power to forgive others as you have been forgiven. A church that teaches this message wouldn't have to worry about being called racist because that's a message that transcends race.

The book An Unbroken Circle: Linking Ancient African Christianity to the African-American Experience actually deals with this aspect of the Christian faith, connecting the oppression and sufferings of Black American Christians with Christian martyrdom and redemption, not just from whites, but from the world - and all from a Christ-centered perspective. It's quite an interesting book.

Good to hear this conversation. The second-to-last paragraph especially resonates with me, because I've seen how racism can take a toll emotionally, as well as financially. It's not just a matter of getting fired (or worse). It's also the pain of being feared or loathed or reviled, simply for being of color. That's not a trivial matter.

Thanks for sharing this painful life experience, Brian. I hope your parents will come around. My maternal uncle was upset when one of his daughters married a Chinese-American. Remarkably, his objections were forgotten when the grandchildren were born.

I also had a paternal uncle who accepted his niece's HIV-positive gay son and his lover into his home when some of the younger generation (ie. his son-in-law) were afraid they would get AIDS if they were in the same room with someone who was HIV-positive. Remarkably, people can change.

If Obama is linked to a goofy pastor is it any different than folks who support Republicans? Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell both said we deserved 911. John Hagee thinks we've gotta nuke Iran and Huckabee spoke at his church.

The use of the passive voice in the sentence is an attempt (probably unconscious) to deflect from the issue. Obama isn't "linked" to Wright as if things just "happened" that way, he deliberately CHOSE Wright as a guiding light. He used one of Wright's sermons as the title of his own book. No GOP candidate, not even Dubya at his most evangelical, looked at Falwell, Robertson or Hagee in the same light, or were "linked" to the same degree.

I canno comment on Hagee, but if memory serves, beginning with Reagan, Republican candidates have eagerly attempted to Like with Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones, etc.

The look to them for political support, but they none considered these guys a spiritual father, or even agreed with their theology.

My sister married a black guy 16 years ago. My family stopped talking with her and she was asked to not attend their local baptist church. My sister and I were the only ones who talked with her for 10 years. They found a very nice, mostly black church to attend. Their kids are doing well. Everyone made up about 5 years ago.

I was pretty shocked at the time as I had never heard my father talk about racial issues before. We were a very Christ centered household and I just couldnt figure out how you could preach Christ and engage in that kind of behavior. The fact is that you can live in our country and have very minimal interactions with people of color. Interactions are usually limited to work settings. True feelings really come out when people cant avoid those interactions. As a white person it is easier to avoid those so I think most whites dont know how bad it can really be.

I sometimes think not many of us who sang that little song "Jesus loves the little children of the world" really believed it.

Steve

"No GOP candidate, not even Dubya at his most evangelical, looked at Falwell, Robertson or Hagee in the same light, or were "linked" to the same degree."

Actually, you are wrong.

http://www.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=159

In a Wall Street Journal story dated August 13, 2004, (Ted) Haggard told reporter Elizabeth Bernstein that he participates in "a weekly conference call...that's led by Tim Goeglein, the White House's liaison to the conservative community, and includes prominent religious leaders. 'We have direct access,'" Haggard told Bernstein. "I can call [Mr. Goeglein], he'll take my concern to the president and get back to me in 24 hours."

According to Haggard, "The weekly conference call with the White House" allows him to give the administration "the pulse of the evangelical world."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/7235393/the_crusaders/

It helps that Dominionists have a direct line to the White House: The Rev. Richard Land, top lobbyist for the 16-million-member Southern Baptist Convention, enjoys a weekly conference call with top Bush advisers including Karl Rove. "We've got the Holy Spirit's wind at our backs!" Land declares in an arm-waving, red-faced speech. He takes particular aim at the threat posed by John Lennon, denouncing "Imagine" as a "secular anthem" that envisions a future of "clone plantations, child sacrifice, legalized polygamy and hard-core porn."

Now, Obama has stated publicly several times that he does not agree with his pastor's positions. President Bush, on the other hand, has assigned a staff member to conduct a weekly conference call with evangelical Christian leaders to coordinate policy and campaign efforts.

I think Wright's Farrakhan issue is a problem. However, just railing on him for embracing black liberation theology without, you know, actually knowing what it is doesn't seem appropriate. I teach theology at a Methodist liberal arts college (I'm a moderate-to-conservative, crunchy con-ish Presbyterian), and I teach James Cone's "A Black Theology of Liberation" every couple of years (to a bunch of white Iowa kids). It is challenging, provocative, and at times infuriating -- but it is no more out of line than any other version of liberation theology.

The preferential option for the poor is biblical; if we can extend the idea to racial oppression, then black liberation theology has a leg to stand on. I'm not saying there aren't problems with it. There are problems with pretty much any theological position, though. But there's a case to be made for it.

I'm really astounded that as seriously as you take religion, you put "black liberation theology" in quotes as if it is some kind of exotic beast. It isn't like liberation theology is a new idea. Perhaps more experience with the genre would be appropriate before dismissing it as "racialist".

In response to watsy:

"I'm not saying that rebeccat's husband didn't get fired because of racism. However, white males get fired all of the time in the business world...It often has more to do with personality and fit than anything else."

Although, yes, there are plenty of black people who use race as an excuse or defense when they're at fault in a situation, I don't think you really get this situation. Even though there IS the possibility that her husband caused his own firing, you missed the part where she stated that his white peers just ignored the situation. That's where racism comes in. Black people are often the minority in the workplace and don't have the same network of buddies within the system to protect them from being terminated.

If the people I work with are racist, then I'm screwed if I'm wrongfully accused of something. Plus, black people carry the burden of having to disprove stereotypes, especially in more prestigious, traditionally all-white careers. For example, the laziness and intelligence stereotypes; black people may be viewed as less competent or more lazy than an equally lazy and incompetent white peer; that is exponentially increased when you factor in the racist buddy systems. On the same note, a black employee may be more closely supervised than a white employee; and I even have seen the sexist equivalent of that, also. When you're more closely observed, you're more likely to be reprimanded for you mistakes; that means that when racist tendencies intrude, an equally incompetent black employee will be more prone to termination than an incompetent white employee. It's the same way with law enforcement. You only suspect blacks and poor people, so while you might catch more criminals who are also black and poor, you're probably missing all the white criminals over in the more affluent area of the city.