Marcial Maciel is dead

Although I hold no grudge against Marciel Maciel, after 14 years in the Legion, I will not dignify him with the title of "Father" or "Reverend".

Alberto,

This is not just "one reading of the situation." It is the considered judgment of every canon lawyer I have come across who commented on the Vatican's resolution of its investigation into the charges against Fr. Maciel.

For example,

The Rev. John Coughlin, professor of canon law at the University of Notre Dame Law School, said such a penalty was common for elderly clerical abusers. Although Maciel was not removed from the priesthood, Coughlin said the Vatican sanction was still a "very serious penalty."

"The Vatican wouldn't have taken this action if they thought he was totally innocent," Coughlin said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051900727.html

Yeah too bad all those abusive teachers, or protestant pastors or parents can't get married either it would happen far less often with them also!

Good riddance.

"The Vatican statement regarding Fr. Maciel, issued less than one year later, listed the same precise list of restrictions. Do you propose that the Vatican did not intend the faithful to connect these two cases?"

RC no more,

Logic won't work. According to the LCs and their defenders, unless there hasn't been something etched in stone from the Vatican, Fr. Maciel is not guilty of anything and we have no right to caution anyone about the LCs. And even if there was, according to them, he will some day be vindicated and canonized like St. Padre Pio.

An by the way, the "Fr. Maciel is a saint" mantra is repeated on many a forum when this discussion comes up.

It's God's job to judge not ours.

But unfortunately,Wolves like to dress in sheep's clothing. Always have, always will.

God save us and continue to heal all injured souls. May the light of God's love reach them and their sufferings be redeemed by uniting them to the Cross of Christ.

True saints have a horror of being considered saints. The closer they grow to holiness, the more they experience the radiance of God, and the more their own tiny faults seem magnified beyond the most grievous of sins.

By all reports, Fr. Maciel enjoyed very much being treated like a "living saint" by his devoted followers, in sharp contrast to Mother Teresa who found any such attention deeply painful and would reportedly confess her sins to priests at every opportunity.

I realize that the Legion's devotees will never stop believing that their leader was merely a maligned and misunderstood saint, but the nature and gravity of the charges against him, the number of people making those charges, and the Vatican's extraordinary actions in removing him from public ministry do not readily lead one to any such conclusion.

Pb, I think most of us have or are praying for him. The reason this is a topic for discussion, I think, is because the Legion is very closely identified with the presence and writings of Fr. Maciel, and if they truly do expect to open a cause for his canonization as one poster earlier speculated then they might be in for a bit of a surprise.

More than that, the Legion's current leaders will have to decide, going forward, what stays and what goes, in a manner of speaking. Fr. Maciel's picture plastered everywhere, books and prayers authored by "Nuestro Padre" as he liked to be called, even some of the rules he established are being called into question in light of the accusations made against him, as was already being done before his death (I have heard that some of the "private vows" have already been suppressed, but don't know if that is rumor or fact). So there is plenty to talk about (in charity and civility, as Rod reminded us above).

For whatever little anecdotal evidence it is worth, I happen to know some people very involved in the Legion of Christ whose close acquaintances had worked directly with Father Maciel. According to these people, Maciel was a blameless victim of outrageous slander. I do not know enough about the facts to support these opinions, but they are worth pondering. I humbly suggest refraining from judgement til the facts become better known, now that he has passed away. Were he still alive, prudence, such as that exhibited by the Vatican, would be the most sensible alternative.

The reason this is a topic for discussion, I think, is because the Legion is very closely identified with the presence and writings of Fr. Maciel, and if they truly do expect to open a cause for his canonization as one poster earlier speculated then they might be in for a bit of a surprise.

I think the discussion is pointless because it doesn't bring anything about, nor does is it likely to change the mind of anyone participating. Most lay Catholics (and those reading this blog) have no role in changing the Legion or RC; those who do, or in contact with people associated with either would be discussing it with them, not doing it through some internet blog.

pb, I think you're right.

Maybe more info on exactly what the Legion of Christ is and does would be helpful. It seems from this thread that some believe him guilty, others innocent. There are 9 people who came forward - that's a compelling number. But we don't really have the facts to judge the validity of their claims.

Obviously,any request for sainthood would take all of these charges into consideration. I'd think that makes his chances slim. But in the end Rod was right. It's all in God's hands now.

The more pressing fact is that there are still many walking wounded out there in America and across the globe who have lost their faith and/or been seriously damaged. I met an old friend a few weeks ago who'd been abused and he wanted me to know that he'd been off of Heroin for 3 years now. Alot of people I've met fall into drugs to forget. He tries to do what he can to help others. Buys heat for a few needy families over the winter. Even called me a couple days before Christmas to find presents for a friend with 5 kids who'd lost his job. [All the agencies were out.] And he ended up being able to give him $1500 in gift ctfs, grocery coupons, etc. He was a great kid. Really involved in teen ministry. Still trying to put his faith in action. But that damn priest fooled everyone and made the kids feel like it was all their fault.

Anyways, point is, his wife really wants to take their girls to Church but he just can't do it. He wants them to have what he had growing up. But he hasn't been able to bring them. These are the real travesties. This is where our resources and prayers should be directed. God bless and heal, each and every soul. That's my prayer. It seems like the only thing I can do. Pray and reach out. Let them know The Church is NOT these abberations (sp?) The Church is a human institution. The real Church is the work of God and the Holy Spirit in our communities. Those who committed these atrocities violated the values of our Faith, our Church and our God.

Amen

Uh, who is dead?

Ya just have to laugh at the ignorance of some when Opus Dei is held up as "ultra-traditionalist".

I happen to know some people very involved in the Legion of Christ whose close acquaintances had worked directly with Father Maciel. According to these people, Maciel was a blameless victim of outrageous slander.

According to the staff and Cardinal members of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and according to Pope Benedict XVI, all of whom (unlike the friends of your friends) actually reviewed the massive evidence in the matter, the man's conduct deserved the severe and very public discipline that was imposed upon him.

It's not our place to judge anyone, least of all the dead: Requiescat in pace. Just PLEASE don't try to change or spin the facts to fit some false hagiography.

Ya just have to laugh at the ignorance of some when Opus Dei is held up as "ultra-traditionalist".

I admit I don't really know or care what Opus Dei's official stance is on usual traditionalist Catholic bug-a-boos like say, the Tridentine Mass, but I'm guessing that if you polled the average OD member, they wouldn't be big fans of Vatican II either.

Live and learn. Opus Dei = Not traditionalist. Got it.

I think your cilice is too tight. Lighten up, Francis.

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

Oh ho ho, that's what they want you to think! You just wait: he's going to come back with the Lubavitcher rebbe at his side!

I'm assuming the Vatican knew that 'Our Father' was close to death when they JUST THIS WEEK tightened up the conditions for canonization. It's just a shame that his followers are so convinced of his holiness that they have been unable to pray for his conversion and repentance these past years. Now, he might very well be in Hell, so it might be too late.

Forget the OD stuff; back to the LC's!

We are never going to know the truth, as an RC member I hope its untrue and pray for his eternal rest, without Fr. Maciel my life would be much different. I cannot speak for others.

I suggest everybody read Jason Berry's article that Rod linked. It makes me admire Benedict all the more. It also reinforces my contempt for JPII and the bunker mentality that afflicts all-too-many Catholics on this issue. That bunker mentality reflects the fact that these same Catholics confuse the hierarchy with Christ, and give it the deference it doesn't deserve.

Franklin, it's good to know that you're a cum laude graduate of the Mark Shea Corresponsdence School of Snark, with a doctorate in Using Personal Attacks To Deflect Attention From The Truth. Congratulations!

But what they didn't teach you, Franklin, is that such tactics (and your skillful use of them) just happen to reinforce my point better than I ever could!

How did this conversation STOP on February 2nd?