Whither American conservatism?

I was a tad suprised he was so dramatic.

Last year during the immigration debates they made a big deal of taking on the WSJ and bg business for the common man or so they said. Somehow that division was ok when the NRO crowd had the pitchforks but is not when Huckabee or the rabble is. However JOnah did try to be somewhat the voice of reason and did say he saw no breakup of the party or movement. He referenced the dire headlines of how abortion will tear the party and conservatism apart in the 70's and how it still stayed together. So I am curious why he is down now.

THat being said I disagree a tad with his comments on Huckabee. A few weeks back on the corner blog it was reported:
Huck and Chuck [Rich Lowry]
"I only could stay for Huckabee's 15-minute opening remarks at a packed—I mean packed—event at a gym in a Londonberry middle school this morning, but it was brilliant, absolutely brilliant. It was one of the most stirring and persuasive defenses of self-government and limited government—including the doctrine of subsidiarity—that I have heard in a long time. This guy is very good, and very shrewd—after playing the evangelical card in Iowa, today he was saying how America is all about "live free or die." If McCain beats Romney here, you have to favor McCain for the nomination, but you can't totally discount the possibility that Huckabee wins it, if it turns out that McCain still has limited appeal to bedrock Republicans despite a win here (and perhaps Michigan too) and if Huckabee can broaden out from evangelicals.
01/05 06:16 PM"

That sounds very interesting. Can we explore it. It sounds far more interesting and productive to explore what Huckabee means by that than just calling him a "liberal" or as Mrs Lopez did a Christian Socialist. For a magazine that at times listens to some of the Catholic crowd you would think talk of the doctrine of subsidiarity would raise some excitement. However the agenda must not be detered.

Anyway if Thompson can just throw the word liberal around and call Huckabee a Democrat that is not what I call traditional conservatism. The world liberal and RINO has been thrown around too much the past 4 years and I hate to say some leading conservatives are part of the problem.

I also find it shocking that many of the things these "new conservatives" are talking about are coming from the states. At one time conservatives thought that was a good thing.

So yep as Jonah said there are a lot of armies and a lot of different generals. However until leading conservatives and publications can allow a discussion on how we can perahps live all together then they have no right to complain. I saw this occur during the immigration deabte where people of good will on both sides were just anaethama to each other. Often led on by people that should have known better. Instead of discussion it was name calling.

THe Chickens have come home to roost. However I do think we shall survive.

JH
LOuisiana

whose down-home folksiness makes Thompson look like David Niven.
/That is good writing.

And . . .
Since someone brought up the London. . .DDD. .Derry :)Huckabee event at the middle school - where Huck and Chuck were 'visiting' the St.Jude's Food Pantry canned goods drive and ended up overwhelming the site. [And the last post I read was about Huck and Catholics.] I just wanted to mention something.

We ended up at St.Jude's in Londonderry for Mass yesterday. I'd been planning on asking Fr.Bob if they'd collected enough food - given the Crush of the 'You can't move an INCH in there!' crowd. And the fact that most of the Huckabee supporters didn't even KNOW they were supposed to bring anything. But at the end of Mass, Fr. Bob made a public disclaimer about something simple he'd said at the beginning of Mass last Sunday. It was "On Wednesday we'll have our State back."

He explained how he didn't mean any insult to the Primary etc etc. but Thank God we'll have our State back. Apparently a reporter from the National Review had been at Mass and Fr.Bob's words ended up on the front page of the NR website all week. He'd been inundated with email asking if that was him, etc. etc. All this for a guy just trying to do good.

In defense of Fr.Bob, given that most people here know what had happened the day before, I think what he said was completely understandable. Context is everything. Fr. Bob is an intelligent, warm, earnestly sincere priest who is a bright light to alot of us. At Mass he also explained that the tough economy and the high costs of heating oil are hitting the Church hard and St. Jude's is about 6 months behind on the Church's assessments to the Diocese. So here's a guy who's given his life's work to helping others and is having a tough time of it.

If there's anybody out there who'd like to send him a KIND or encouraging word (or help out his little church and their food pantry) I think he could really use it. Here's his website. http://www.stejude.com/
Peace

"Libertarians and cultural liberals see government's failure to sanction gay marriage, and state voters approving anti-gay marriage initiatives, as oppressive of individual rights. Traditional conservatives, on the other hand, see oppression in the actions of government's judicial branch to override legislatures and impose gay marriage on states. Both sides believe government is overstepping its bounds, and ought to be reined back in. How can they both be right? You can only judge by looking at the ends they're trying to achieve"

As you know, Rod, I have a vested interest in the gay marriage issue. "[G]overnment's failure to sanction gay marriage, and state voters approving anti-gay marriage initiatives" IS "oppressive fo individual rights".

Both the judicial branch and legislatures recognize that ALL citizens are created equal and worthy of equal treatment before the law. The judicial branch recognizes the importance of the term "liberty and justice for ALL", not just for the str8 folk. Legislatures pas laws governing ALL citizens, not just the heterosexual ones.

That conservatives and the religious right want to withhold such equality and liberty for SOME is abhorrent, imho. If they could only put themselves in others' shoes and DO unto those others as they would have them do to themselves, the true Christian ethic would permeate the land (the Golden Rule IS, after all, "the SUM of the laws and the prophets").

"impose gay marriage"??? BWAHAHAHAHA. If you don't want one, DON'T HAVE ONE! Sheesh, already.

"override legislatures"???? The California Legislature voted
TWICE for gay marriage. Guess who 'overrode' those votes??? The conservative Governator.

"looking at the ends they're trying to achieve"? Yes. let's DO look at it. It's called equality under the law. That's a pretty worth 'end', I think. It used to be "promised" to ALL citizens.

Susan -
"What's endangering my marriage, and the marriages of all heterosexuals, is the easy-divorce culture"

You have someone in my state to thank for that. Senator Joe "expose the commies" McCarthy. Before he went to congress he made Appleton, Wisconsin to divorce what Vegas is to weddings.

As to Rod's greater point, the only way I can agree is by quoting Lao Tzu (Tao Te Ching, v. 18):

When people lost sight of the way to live
Came codes of love and honesty,
Learning came, charity came,
Hypocrisy took charge;
When differences weakened family ties
Came benevolent fathers and dutiful sons
And when lands were disrupted and misgoverned
Came ministers commended as loyal.

Seems to me conservatism, in its orthodox form in the US, has lost sight of the way to live.

That's pretty much what I thought when ALan Keyes entered the race -- he makes Paul look normal.