Crunchy Con

Au revoir, les enfants

Saturday February 16, 2008

Categories: Culture
That's the title of a 1987 French film by Louis Malle, based on an actual experience of his childhood. He spent the Nazi occupation in a French Catholic boarding school. The priests there were hiding Jewish schoolchildren from the Gestapo,...
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Comments
Bugg
February 16, 2008 3:42 PM

Pathetic; kudos to Sarkozy. To not do so would be like discussing American history without discussing slavery or native Indians. It's simple fact. The Muslims seem to be adopting the facscist/communist ideal of history, ignoring uncomfortable facts and bending reality to their own ends. If a people is so susceptibly opposed to the truth, what other great lies will they insist on accepting?

AnotherBeliever
February 16, 2008 3:44 PM

I was about 12 when I visited the Holocaust museum, and saw the film you mentioned, or one very similar, my first or second year of college. I saw Schindler's list at about 14, and this also had a great impression on me.

I don't think it would be any easier at eleven than it would be at 18! But perhaps it will have a greater impression on a younger child to personally identify with a child who died in the Holocaust. This doesn't mean you need to show certain filmed scenes to younger children. But there is something to be said for emotional identification. The potential psychological trauma is not so great when you consider the actual trauma which children have experienced in genocide throughout history.

Humanity is capable of great evil. This is not limited to the Holocaust. Today, around the world, human beings are being raped, beaten, and slaughtered wholescale because they are of the wrong ethnic or religious identity. What is chilling about the Holocaust is that culturally, Hitler's Germany was so very close to our own culture, its Jewish victims were similar to us as well, and that it was carried out with such modern efficiency.

This tendency to great evil exists in all of us. I think that learning at a very young age to identify with victims of evil will help inoculate young hearts and minds against these atrocities. It isn't very kind, but perhaps it IS necessary. Memorizing historical facts clearly doesn't cut it.

Eric W
February 16, 2008 3:47 PM

Put these films in your NetFlix cue and/or meet me downtown and borrow them:

Night and Fog - Alain Resnais - only 31 minutes, but powerful.
Anne Frank (not the Hollywood movie, but the Buena Vista/Disney TV production with Ben Kingsley
The Long Way Home (Vanguard Cinema/7th Art) - narrated by Morgan Freeman
Into the Arms of Strangers: Stories of the Kindertransport - narrated by Judi Dench
The Last Days (Stephen Spielberg and The Shoah Foundation)

Aaron Baugher
February 16, 2008 3:59 PM

I'd add The Pianist to that list. I watched it with a friend who's, let's say, not very conversant with history. He kept saying things like, "Come on, it didn't really happen like that, did it? They didn't really just randomly stuff Jews into cattle cars to be killed, did they? Wouldn't they have put them to work, instead of fencing them away in ghettos to starve?"

Then we watched the DVD extras, which showed how many of those scenes were copied almost exactly from films that the Nazis themselves made of the work they were proudly doing, and he didn't know what to say. Pretty sobering stuff.

Sheilagh
February 16, 2008 4:05 PM

I remember that scene. I was about the same age. Very shocking. Horrific.

Not sure What will work in France. But . . .

More needs to be done to assimilate Muslim immigrants right here and now in America. Encouraging respect for different cultures. I've already started to hear stories of Muslim groups protesting and trying to ban the traditional Christmas 'Holiday' concerts at local schools. Even stories of Muslim kids vandalizing/Smashing an Easter display on a front lawn and running away laughing. Troubling stuff. (It's not Halloween. It's Easter!)

We should be doing more to heat up our own melting pot. Ya think?

Scott Lahti
February 16, 2008 4:08 PM

It would be hard to surpass the exemplary force of those few whose heroic moral witness, often from deep religious or philosophic belief, in opposition to the murderous demands of power testify to the power within all of us to say no to evil, in refusing to take "necessity" or expedience as excuses when the real of man's "law" proves impotent, locally at the least, before the ideal of higher Law. Three examples for the curriculum from among many:

Lest Innocent Blood Be Shed by Philip P. Hallie. "During the most terrible years of World War II, when inhumanity and political insanity held most of the world in their grip and the Nazi domination of Europe seemed irrevocable and unchallenged, a miraculous event took place in a small Protestant town in southern France called Le Chambon. There, quietly, peacefully, and in full view of the Vichy government and a nearby division of the Nazi SS, Le Chambon's villagers and their clergy organized to save thousands of Jewish children and adults from certain death."

The White Rose: Munich, 1942-1943 by Inge Scholl. "The White Rose tells the story of Hans Scholl and Sophie Scholl, who in 1942 led a small underground organization of German students and professors to oppose the atrocities committed by Hitler and the Nazi Party. They named their group the White Rose, and they distributed leaflets denouncing the Nazi regime. Sophie, Hans, and a third student were caught and executed.

Written by Inge Scholl (Han's and Sophie's sister), The White Rose features letters, diary excerpts, photographs of Hans and Sophie, transcriptions of the leaflets, and accounts of the trial and execution. This is a gripping account of courage and morality."

Finally, the story of Franz Jägerstätter, the pacifist Austrian peasant executed for defying Hitler, and beatified by the Catholic Church last October. Canon Paul Oestreicher in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/oct/20/comment.austria

Next Friday, at the behest of a German Pope, an Austrian peasant with astonishing insight and courage will be beatified in Linz Cathedral, the Catholic church's first formal step to sainthood. Franz Jägerstätter, born in 1907 in the village of St Radegund to an unmarried farmhand, not far from Hitler's birthplace, refused to fight in an unjust war. He knew that the penalty was death.

Thanks largely to the English Jesuit Archbishop Roberts, the Second Vatican Council put on record 40 years ago that refusal to take up arms was a valid expression of Catholic faith. Nevertheless it was and still is far from the norm. Germany's Catholic bishops supported Hitler's aggressive war. Military chaplains swore allegiance to the Führer. Christians fought with a quiet conscience - on both sides. In a historic volte-face the church is about to acknowledge that this conscientious objector was a true martyr. There is no modern precedent.

Hitler's annexation of Austria had massive support. Cardinal Innitzer was there to greet the Führer. In the referendum that sealed the Anschluss, Franz was the only villager to vote no; however, the mayor reported a 100% yes vote.

Who was Franz Jägerstätter? As a young man he had been quite a tearaway, had made a village girl pregnant, and was a worry to his by-then married parents. Yet he read assiduously and married Franziska, who was deeply devout. He turned into a dedicated father of four daughters. Sacristan of the village church, the life and teaching of Jesus increasingly determined his priorities. With an independent mind, the priests he respected were those who confronted the new paganism and went to prison.

Once war started he had a brief period of military training but was allowed to return to his farm. That experience ripened in him the conviction that he would not fight. He rejected the lie that this was a war to free Europe from atheistic communism. No, he wrote, it is a war to dominate the Russian people. When called up again, he declared: "I cannot serve both Hitler and Jesus."

Every conceivable pressure was brought on him to change his mind, from family and friends and the church. Franziska stood by him. She knew him too well. Even challenged by his bishop, he stood firm. Who was he, a simple farmer, to decide the rights and wrongs of war? An intelligent Christian who knew his Bible. Surely his first duty was to his family, who would be left without husband and father? He argued back: was the answer to kill other husbands and fathers? He held the line. "My hands in chains," he wrote, "but not my will."

From the local prison they took him to Berlin. The supreme military court also made every effort to change his mind. He did offer to serve as a medical orderly, saving life, not taking it. That was rejected. The judge had no choice but to sentence him to death like countless deserters. Conscience was no defence. Franz was given a final 20 minutes with Franziska and his parish priest. Shortly after the trial, as in some classic tragedy, the judge committed suicide.

Franz was beheaded in Brandenburg prison with 16 others on August 9 1943. After the war, a group of nuns brought his ashes to his home village. An embarrassed silence ensued for many years. Neither the community nor the church wanted to know. The bishop who had tried to change his mind now forbade any public recognition. It might shame those who had fought.

That only began to change when Gordon Zahn, an American sociologist, published his story, In Solitary Witness, in 1964. Pilgrims began to make their way to his grave. New times, a new bishop, a growing sense of pride. Austria issued a postage stamp in his memory. Next week Franziska, steadfast in old age, will be there when he is held up as a model for today by a church that is slow to learn. Unjust wars are not past history. Where are the Jägerstätters now?

· Canon Paul Oestreicher is a counsellor of the Anglican Pacifist Fellowship

clare krishan
February 16, 2008 5:13 PM

Prudence should tell us to beware in resorting to "mood altering behavior" (as in Aristotle/Aquinas natural law virtues "The First Principles of Practical Reason - Basic Intelligible Human Goods at www.lifeissues.net/writers/mcm/ph/ph_01philosophyyouth26.html and "Personhood, Integrity, and the Virtues
A Glance at Human Development" since our irascible appetites can just as easily provoke VERY evil outcomes as the 20th century already has evidenced:
www.lifeissues.net/writers/mcm/ph/img/phil038.jpg

Man should NOT be trained to make decisions based on his emotions, that's what the imams and wahabbis (and other anti-semites) are doing already, like primitive pressure cookers, piling on the heat in a grimly dim public discourse. Where's the light of human reason? Why aren't the so-called "enlightened" politicians using BXVI's Regensburg address to call the anti-semites on their dehellenizing of European Culture? Perhaps 'cos they themselves need to go back to school NOT their 10 year old constituents?

Rod you make a basic blunder in assuming youths today would respond to the media the way you did back then. You memory and psyche, however immature, were probably primed by the gospel parables and preaching you had been exposed to thus far - and the logic of the retelling of the horror engaged your will as veritable, you recognized the victims as fellow children of God.

Today's youth are balefully ignorant of these simple principles, and their parents are openly hostile to the verifiableness of Absolute Truth, and are thus more similar to the irrationally violent tendencies of an ideology such as Islam, which denies common human rights (the UN granted Muslim nations their own exclusive Charter - thus they do not concede the same thing Western JudeoChristian secular folks do when we say human "dignity")

What use teaching "dignity" and the abhorence of attacks on "so-called" dignity if your audience denies the very terms of the lesson you are trying to teach?

What does it mean to be human? Why don't our schools teach that anymore?

These are the scary questions no one wants to ask, because there really are right and wrong answers, and people are still get killed TODAY for claiming such a thing.

Mark
February 16, 2008 5:28 PM

Perhaps it was because I read all about and understood the absolute horror that was Nazi Germany when I was in grade school that causes me to to be so incredibly intolerant of bigotry, prejudice, and injustice now. Of course, I also read lots of books about the same kind of persecutions all over the world... The reformers (some call them heretics) burned at the stake, the slaves, the victims of unjust wielding of power are too numerous to count.

There are an awful lot of people who are unwilling to wholesale condemn Nazi Germany, instead, they justify, excuse, or just try to shy away from the horrors. I think these people never faced the notion of evil, and didn't fathom the depths to which evil people will sink. One need not fall into the chasm to realize the depths. Just staring over the edge, through the eyes of someone who DID experience it is enough.

Sarkozy's idea is probably on the right track, but perhaps a bit too much based on being a solution in search fo a problem. The problem is that schools now tend to teach everything in the gray monotone light of moral relativism, and hide the bright light of true and steadfast principles about what is right and what is wrong.

We have become utterly paralyzed by some stupid politics, and are afraid to call "evil" by its name.

clare krishan
February 16, 2008 5:28 PM

Here's a curriculum Sarkozy should be looking at translating into French:
at lifeissues.net -- clear thinking about crucial issues --
Doug McManaman "An Introduction to Philosophy for Young People"

www.lifeissues.net/writers/mcm/ph/ph_01philosophyyouth1.html

and a recent critique of progressive Pinker's dabbling in "character" education

www.mercatornet.com/articles/moral_sense_and_non_sense

clare krishan
February 16, 2008 5:30 PM

oops -- www.mercatornet.com/articles/moral_sense_and_non_sense/
(missing slash)

Daniel
February 16, 2008 5:52 PM

The irony of European anti-Semitism is that it unites disparate groups of intolerant ideologues, including anti-Muslim, Christian-identity neo-Nazis in Germany and Belgium. The story of European anti-Semitism in 2008 includes not only "Islamofascists," but also far-right white neo-Nazis who also attack Muslims, and dispossessed North African youths who have little allegiance to Islam.

Don
February 16, 2008 7:11 PM

The best book on The Holocaust outside of Primo Levi's books is Jean Amery's At The Mind's Limits. It also has one of the best essays ever written on torture. I must add that Amery was not a believer in any sense, and wrote two other interesting, but tough to read, books. Those books addressed aging and suicide. He also wrote a book called Radical Humanism which includes one of the earliest critiques of the European Left's move toward hatred of Israel and Jew-Hatred. I mention this great writer precisely because he was, unlike myself, not a believer, and yet his books haunt me to this day. I approve of what Sarkozy is trying to do because he is forcing the French to remember the past in order to forestall an unpleasant future. I am also heartened by how many Christians are moved by The Holocaust and respond with empathy and determination to fend of other such tragedies today. I would like to recommend Dan Vittorio Segre's Memoirs Of A Fortunate Jew and Levi's Moments Of Reprieve. In those books you will find decent people not unlike yourselves. The question of what to do about Islam's trend toward Jew-Hatred is simply above my pay-grade. I speak as someone who respects Islam enough to be reading the Quran in Arabic. I hope that the followers of Islam as well as all others in France who take these classes will respond with such empathy for Jews as well as all others. Surely that is worth Sarkozy's attempt.

rebeccat
February 16, 2008 7:32 PM

I somehow doubt that this will do any good. If these children have already been taught that Jews are bordering on inhuman, it is not too hard to see how a child will see the elimination of the child as being the point where his/her true identity as vermin is revealed and exterminated.

I wonder if it wouldn't be more helpful to have the kids read about the people who were heroes and helped fight the Nazis, what their motivations were and the sacrifices they were willing to make. In this way, it puts the onus not on identifying with a Jew who is already held in the mind as a non-human, but on identifying with a hero. These kids will never be Jews, but they may need to be heroes one day, so perhaps the ethos of the moral hero is what needs to be emphasized.

Charles Cosimano
February 16, 2008 9:35 PM

The opinion of Muslims is as the squeaking of mice. The problem is that such efforts have a bad habit of really backfiring in ways that are hard to predict. The children, depending upon their age and background, may have reason to compare the Jews who were quietly carted away very unfavorably with the French Resistance who left their homes to fight in the hills.

I'm reminded of the comment made by a Jewish professor at the University of Chicago that he could never understand why the Jews of Europe could not find one man to get up on a rooftop with a rifle in 1930 and end the problem of Hitler once and for all.

Anonymous
February 16, 2008 10:35 PM

Charles Cosimano has, unfortunately, got a point. Weakness can arouse either compassion or contempt. Consider that the word 'abject' has connotations of both misery and of baseness or servility; consider also that 'pathetic' originally meant 'arousing sympathy'. For that matter, consider the scorn the Right normally heaps on the Left's 'cult of noble victimhood'. The suffering of helpless innocents reduced young Rod to tears, but led the Jewish professor to kvetch that nobody took responsibility for solving the problem. I think in part this is compassion fatigue - the world is increasingly full of appeals for sympathy, and the human heart has a finite capacity - but it's more than that. I wish I understood better what it is that makes victimhood pitiable in some cases and pathetic, in the modern sense of the term, in others.

It's true, though, that presenting young people with heroic rescuers of Jews is far more likely to be successful. Young people are drawn to role models who stir their imagination; that's why imams who preach revolution attract their loyalty more than practical parents who counsel shutting up and fitting in. Give them something to compete with that.

mik_infidelos
February 16, 2008 11:09 PM


More needs to be done to assimilate Muslim immigrants right here and now in America. Encouraging respect for different cultures. I've already started to hear stories of Muslim groups protesting and trying to ban the traditional Christmas 'Holiday' concerts at local schools. Even stories of Muslim kids vandalizing/Smashing an Easter display on a front lawn and running away laughing. Troubling stuff. (It's not Halloween. It's Easter!)

We should be doing more to heat up our own melting pot. Ya think?

With all due respect, why you are assuming that Muslims want or even capable of assimilating?

Who gave you that strange idea?
Just because Poles and Jews and Swedes and Latvians have assimilated does not follow that Muslims will do also.

Koran teaches Muslims that it is their religious duty to impose Koran on whole Humanity. That other religions may convert or pay dhimmi tax or must be killed.

How assimilation (to what? McDonalds?) fits into this?

You let folks who do not mean well into your home and now you want to re-educate them?

How?

Would not it be easier to not let them in in the first place?

At least stop let new ones in since you know that previous ones are not making good roommates.


rombald
February 17, 2008 4:10 AM

"More needs to be done to assimilate Muslim immigrants right here and now in America. "

An assimilated Muslim is not a Muslim. Period. So, the assimilation of Muslims translates as encouragement of their apostasy - I can agree with that.

Several recent commenters have said things about Muslims in Europe that are not entirely accurate, and I take this opportunity to respond about these:

1. France has less of a problem with Muslims than the UK, despite larger numbers.
Response: The UK does have more of a problem with Muslims establishing a virtual parallel state, but France has more riots and other overt resistance to the state. I don't think either liberalism or republicanism offers a good model for dealing with Muslims.

2. The USA is markedly better than Europe at assimilating immigrants, and the European Muslim problem is a function of this.
Response: I accept that much of Europe (eg. Germany, Italy, Scandinavia, Ireland) had little immigration until recently, whereas the USA is at root an immigrant nation. However, the distinction can be overdrawn. For example, the USA seems to have difficulty with Latin American immigrants, for no obvious reason.

Also, the UK actually has a long history of immigration, and we have never had trouble analogous to that with Muslims. Just retricting the analysis to immigration since about 1850 (forget the Huguenots, and the blacks derived from the slave trade), immigrants who are white and Christian or secular have been assimilated probably more readily than in the USA. The largest numbers were Irish, who had a legitimate grievance against England, yet they have been completely assimilated, to the extent that probably most English people have some Irish blood. Jews did not readily assimilate, but they concentrated on social and economic advancement, and so were not problematic (they have now assimilated, to the degree that the UK Jewish community is on its last legs, except for a few Orthodox ghettoes).

Looking at post-WW2 immigration, the biggest numbers have been from the West Indies and the Indian Subcontinent, and some from China, and recently from Eastern Europe.

West Indians suffered a lot of racism in the 1950s-60s, yet they have tended to intermarry and basically follow the same trajectory as the Irish - there aren't really black ghettoes in British cities analogous to those in the USA.

Sikhs and Chinese tend not to assimilate, but they tend to concentrate on professional/financial success, basically like the Jews.

Hindus intermarry more than Sikhs and Chinese, but less than West Indians, and fit in well with the more sort of intellectual-leaning parts of the white middle class.

It's really only Muslims who present a major problem. You can see this by a simple comparison. Leicester has a large Sikh and Hindu population, and is a prosperous place to which the Indians obviously contribute: there is loads of employment, even for white people, in Indian food companies, India-orientated software firms, etc. Bradford and Oldham, dominated by Pakistanis, are like war zones, with burned-out cars, Pakistani heroin for sale on street corners, hideously ugly mosques everywhere, no-go areas for Kafirs (whites and blacks are mugged, Sikhs and Hindus are murdered), and the sheer filth and squalour that seems to surround and pervade Muslims at all times and all places.

marija
February 17, 2008 5:14 AM

At our school we were told a lot about atrocities of Nazis in concentration camps such as Osventsim, Buhenavld and Dahau, seen horrible pictures, read diary of Anna Frank, but we didn't hear such a word 'Holocaust' and i don't know if it is correct to use it referring only deaths of jews or it should refere to all victims, regardless of nation. According to our teachers natzis proclaimed inferior race not only jews. Gypsies and slavs were shot and gased too, and btw, comparing percents of gypsies in europe before the war and after, it might be possible to say that they became almost extinct, and strangely there was no much talking about it, as if 'holocaust' against gypsies didn't happen.

With all respect to victims, it is difficult to understand how the fact of extermination of jews (or any other nation) by nazis can define the one's attitude to the state of Israil or that nation generally. Nazis killed millions of soviets, did it define anyone's attitude to USSR as state or made more sympathetic to its inhabitants? Doubtful.

Andy Veazey
February 17, 2008 8:45 AM

Very interesting post, Rod. I'm your age, and incidentally am from Louisiana and attended LSU at the same time as you.

Two weeks ago my 11 year old son and I visited D.C., and I had a similar experience as your parents did relative to the U.S. Holocaust Museum. I thought long and hard about whether it would be too much for my son to handle, but he is very mature and well-read for his age, and I ultimately decided to take him.

After seeing some of the graphic images, my son had a somewhat similar reaction as you did to the Holocaust miniseries 30 years ago(which was my first exposure to the Holocause as well). He didn't cry, but he immediately wanted to leave the museum, and stressed that he didn't want to go back during our remaining time in D.C. Despite this, I think I did the right thing, and know that the memory of that experience and the magnitude of evil of Nazi Germany and everything it stood for will last a lifetime.

I enjoy your Blog very much.

Christopher Mohr
February 17, 2008 9:55 AM

I'll agree with Sarkozy here, but suggest that his approach is incomplete. You can't just teach children about one aspect of a historical event and expect them to suddenly "get it". Noble effort, but at best it will fall short. Now on to the real point I want to make. Everyone on this board is using the wrong term. I know that popular convention has anti-semitism defined as being against the Jewish people, but there's more to it than that. Historically, the Sumerians were also a semitic people. Here's where the confusion sets in:

Semitism comes from the bible, where a semite is one who is of the line of Shem, per Gen 11:10-26. Shem had as one of his descendants Abram (aka Abraham). Abraham had as his descendants Ishmael and later Isaac. From Ishmael is descended Mohammed, and consequently, from a religious perspective, all Muslims. From Isaac is descended Jacob (aka Israel), and from a religious perspective, all Jewish people. Take the Jacobian line a few steps forward and you get David. From David (by his ethically interesting affair with Bathsheba, per Matthew 1:1-17) is descended Jesus, and from a religious perspective, all Christians.

The point of this: Muslims, Jews, and Christians are, religiously speaking, Semitic. To be anti-Semitic, one must be against the Semites, and therefore against Jews, Muslims, and Christians. It's alot more difficult than one would think to really be anti-semitic. The people in the article and those brought up by other posters in the comboxes are clearly anti-Jewish, but we have no idea whether thay are also anti-Christian and anti-Muslim (though i think we can assume they are not anti-Muslim). Or for that matter, if they are against the other descendants of Shem, who are nameless in Genesis.

That said, there is more to the story of the holocaust than simply, "oh, the poor Jews". Yes, they got a very, very raw deal. So did everyone else. Does that mean we should exclude everyone else's suffering during that time to appease one group of the suffering?

Susan
February 17, 2008 1:01 PM

An assimilated Muslim is not a Muslim. Period. So, the assimilation of Muslims translates as encouragement of their apostasy - I can agree with that.

I'm in the United States, which I gather you are not, rombald. I represent quite a lot of American Muslims, first and second generation immigrants, and I am 99% certain that they would take serious offense at your statement that they are "not" Muslims. (Yikes! The women all wear headscarves!! They go to pray 5 times daily! And yet these folks are totally assimilated! News flash, over here we don't demand that everyone be exactly alike!)

And you, who are not a Muslim, nor even, apparently, an American, would know about American assimilation how exactly?

Americans have always had transient difficulties with immigrants. Our current problems with Latin American immigrants are of that type. Transient.

Good luck, and I mean that, in Europe, assimilating immigrants. My good wishes are much increased by the reflection that every single time Europe has gotten into an internal war since 1776 we've been dragged in. Thanks anyway, we have enough trouble of our own over here. Please for the love of God figure out a way to get along with each other.

sigaliris
February 17, 2008 1:02 PM

I think this was a brilliant imaginative concept on Sarkozy's part. He would give each child a story that would become part of them, a shadow child that would follow them through life to remind them of what must never happen again. I'm not sure it would work that perfectly, however. As some of the comments here demonstrate, when people who have not received enough compassion in their own lives are urged to sympathize with the misfortunes of others, there is often an oppositional reaction of hostility and resentment. It makes sense in a way--they are being asked to give to others what they never received themselves. They recoil angrily from this demand.

An old friend of mine used to say, "You cannot give what you did not get." There is a punitive aspect to forcing knowledge of evil on the unready--rubbing their noses in it, as it were. Children who have been shamed and punished a good deal already may react violently against another helping of this, and their reaction may well involve dumping their hurt onto some other convenient victim. Thus you could create the very hate you're trying to inoculate against.

One can see a certain amount of this happening already, right here, though we're all grownups. "Let's not talk about the Holocaust! Why should Jews get all the sympathy? Muslims are just BAD! Jews are cowards! There's no such thing as anti-Semitism!" And so forth . . . .

The safest and best way to make children compassionate is to bring them up with love and compassion in their own lives. Lead by example. My old friend's statement is not completely accurate. There are some people who overcome the bad treatment they received and are somehow able to recover their ability to love others. Those are my heroes.

Herr Morgenholz
February 17, 2008 1:30 PM

When I was about 12 or 13, I pulled Martin Gilbert's "The Holocaust: A History of the Jews of Europe during WWII" off of my parents' bookshelf. I was halfway through the about 1100 pages before my parents even realized I was reading it. About 5 years ago I picked it up again, and it was even more horrifying the second time through. For really learning about the Shoah, I would suggest this book most definitely.

Susan
February 17, 2008 2:01 PM

"That said, there is more to the story of the holocaust than simply, "oh, the poor Jews". Yes, they got a very, very raw deal. So did everyone else. Does that mean we should exclude everyone else's suffering during that time to appease one group of the suffering?"

When it concern the Jews, yes. One of the reasons that Israel is such a staunch ally of Turkey is that they both want no consideration whatsoever of the Ottoman massacres of Armenians as "genocide" or "holocaust." They want this all to themselves.

I thought Kim was banned here? Oh well.

That said, the Nazis, so far as I can tell, were equal-opportunity oppressors. You're a Jew? Too bad for you. You're a gypsy? Same song. You're a homosexual? Well, to the gas chambers for you. You're a Christian who opposes the regime? Too bad for you too. You're a Pole who just opposes having your land seized? Same song, second verse.

Current mythology to the contrary, it wasn't just the Jews.

So....genocide by the Turks would be OK because...?

Susan
February 17, 2008 2:18 PM

I guess I'm objecting to the appropriation of what was really a wholesale outrage by one group of victims among many.

Perhaps the majority of victims were Jews. (Actually we have no way of knowing this.) But it is certain that not all victims were Jews, that there were very substantial numbers of victims who were not Jews, who were destroyed for other reasons.

Gypsies were killed en masse, for no other reason than their ethnicity. Homosexuals were killed, same situation, for no better reason than their real or perceived sexual orientation. (This group is especially problematic for current right-wing Christians.) Christians who stood up to the Nazi regime like Maximillian Kolbe were murdered for that reason alone.

I fully realize that these historical facts blur the message. That we cannot at this point make this whole business a simple aggression against the Jews without distorting the record. All these facts focus on the aggressors rather than the victims, which is most inconvenient for those victims who have a political agenda. For them, these are bad facts, which of their necessity focus attention on the perpetrators, not the victims.

Nevertheless, the facts are the facts. It may be convenient for some people to over-simplify the facts, but that strategy cannot, in the end, serve the purpose of truth. The facts do not, of themselves, support the state of Israel. Or the political rights of the Roma. Or the agenda of the homosexuals.

The facts support a condemnation of the National Socialist regime in Germany in the late 1930's through 1945. All these people are dead now.

How inconvenient for current political argument.

Eric W
February 17, 2008 2:21 PM
I guess I'm objecting to the appropriation of what was really a wholesale outrage by one group of victims among many. Perhaps the majority of victims were Jews. (Actually we have no way of knowing this.) But it is certain that not all victims were Jews, that there were very substantial numbers of victims who were not Jews, who were destroyed for other reasons.

Did Mein Kampf also include homosexuals and gypsies, etc., among those for whom a "final solution" was warranted?

Susan
February 17, 2008 2:41 PM

Eric,

No, it didn't. But I'm not talking about Hitler's ravings before he came to power (Mein Kampf was written during the early years of struggle). I'm talking about what really happened, about who all really died.

(Did I mention the mentally ill? Even those subject to transient depression? Let me add them in.)

I think - you can refute me if you wish - that who really died is a more important consideration than some book written in the 1930's. At least I think the people who were killed and their families would think it more important.

Killing people who have not been convicted of any crime beyond their ethnicity or their sexual orientation or their opposition to a murderous regime or their religious beliefs or their mental illness is a crime. It is not more a crime if the murder is for ethnicity as opposed to, say, religious belief? Do you argue the contrary? Or is murder of homosexuals OK with you, and if so why? Please let us know.

I'm open to a contrary argument.

rombald
February 17, 2008 3:37 PM

Susan: "I'm in the United States, which I gather you are not, ....
And you, who are not a Muslim, nor even, apparently, an American, would know about American assimilation how exactly?"

Over the past few days, Rod has commented on the situation with Muslims in, let's see, the UK, the Netherlands, France and Germany. Rod's American, but it's unacceptable for me to make any comment??

If these are meant to be an Americans-only comboxes, fair enough, I'll stop adding comments, but I'd be grateful if you'd let me know.

"Americans have always had transient difficulties with immigrants."
"Good luck, and I mean that, in Europe, assimilating immigrants."

Did you actually read my comments? A recent commenter said that the USA is better at assimilating immigrants than Europe. I argue that the UK, at any rate (I would say France as well), is actually quite good at assimilating immigrants, certainly not markedly worse than the USA (nobody's perfect, of course).

I also think that the situation with Muslims is radically, qualitatively, different from that with any other ethnic group. I explained about this at some length.

"I am 99% certain that they would take serious offense at your statement that they are "not" Muslims."

Do they want to impose Sharia? No? Then they're not Muslims. A Muslim is someone who aims for every country on earth to be subject to the will of Allah, as found in the Koran and Sunna. Muslims have different strategic approaches to that goal, but unless they share that goal they are not Muslims.

"News flash, over here we don't demand that everyone be exactly alike!)"

And we do over here? Grow up.

Anonymous
February 17, 2008 3:55 PM

Sigaliris: unwittingly perhaps, you reinforce my critique of Rod's attempt at coercing sentimentality (mindful feeling, or "mood-inducing") in minors, rather than unleashing a thoughtful minding (their own business -- forming a conscience, a "fides-et-ratio"-mentality if you will, please forgive my clumsy formulation)

".. give each child a story that would become part of them, a shadow child that would follow them through life to remind them ...

Of what ?...

Consider that we, the progeny of our Boomer generation, have already grown up with "shadow child" (40 million siblings lost to families tainted by an endemic selfishishness our politicians have no intention of addressing, abortion on demand) and have no sense of shame.

"...of what must never happen again. I'm not sure it would work that perfectly... when... people... have not received enough compassion in their own lives..."

Gotcha! Too right, sistah.

Where, pray, will this magically saccharine "sweetness and light" emanate from when most kids probably already know personally of the demise of a fellow American in the womb (from the private lives of classmates, relatives, or associates who took advantage of their constitutional right to evict a gestating person, an "illegal immigrant without residency rights," by terminating an unwanted pregnancy). If conventional wisdom decress unwanted babies can be disposed of as a "private" matter, wither "compassion"? Childhood innocence, once sacrificed to expedience, cannot be regained.

In this war of ideas we cannot retrench since the dugouts our parents took for granted got blasted into oblivion by their own lascivious "freedoms." Our generation's suffering from pervasive radiation sickness, but no-one wants to admit where the nuclear fallout came from.

Recuperation will require an antedote we're unwilling to swallow:

. . . a liberal dose of remorse and contrition

and a therapy too few practitioners are well-versed in:

. . . humble penitential mortification

As Augustine prayed, in Book 1 verse 16 of his Confessions:

"Look down upon these things, O Lord, with compassion,
and deliver us who now call upon You;
deliver those also who do not call upon You,
that they may call upon You,
and that You may deliver them."

Susan
February 17, 2008 4:02 PM

A recent commenter said that the USA is better at assimilating immigrants than Europe. I argue that the UK, at any rate (I would say France as well), is actually quite good at assimilating immigrants, certainly not markedly worse than the USA (nobody's perfect, of course).

I hope you are right.

I read with dismay stories of people who have been in the UK for three or four generations who are plotting to blow up airplanes in the name of Islam. (I actually got stranded in the UK during one of these scares.) I'm hoping all this is dust in the wind.

I'd challenge you to come up with equivalent stories about the US. We have trouble sometimes with first-generation immigrants, but our difficulties with third-generation immigrants (besides wearing their iPods in their heads too much) are hard to find.

As for my observant Muslim clients:

"I am 99% certain that they would take serious offense at your statement that they are "not" Muslims."

Do they want to impose Sharia? No? Then they're not Muslims.

I'll be sure to pass this on to them the next time we get together. I'm certain they'll be appreciative of your (a non-Muslim's) evaluation of what they ought to believe.

A Muslim is someone who aims for every country on earth to be subject to the will of Allah, as found in the Koran and Sunna. Muslims have different strategic approaches to that goal, but unless they share that goal they are not Muslims.

Remind me to recommend your evaluation to the Imam the next time we meet. He's certain to be interested in the opinion of a non-Muslim Brit on this topic.

Susan
February 17, 2008 4:51 PM

As an American, please, please, please, for the love of God, Europe, get your act together already. Whatever it takes. Every time you-all get involved in tribal warfare (which is like every five minutes), even in Bosnia (which really is none of our business!! would you police your own neighborhood for a change for cryingoutloud!!?) since 1776, we Americans have ended up going over there to clean it up.

Enough already. As you-all Europeans have observed endlessly, we over here have our problems and enough and more than enough already. We're fallible, we admit it, OK? We have our own very substantial problems here, as you tirelessly point out, so would you please clean your own house for a change for crying out loud?

When you-all have your act together we over here would be more than eager to accept your advice. Until then, stick to your knitting, OK?

Andrea
February 17, 2008 7:00 PM

I was ten when I read Anne Frank's diary for the first time. It left me in tears, but it definitely made the Holocaust far more real than a textbook. I think this is a quite reasonable lesson plan for fifth grade children. Kids learn best when history comes alive for them. If the Muslim kids are actually learning that garbage, they should be given a double dose of this Holocaust lesson in school.

Max Schadenfreude
February 18, 2008 1:56 AM

The Muslim who doesn't want Sharia is like a Catholic who doesn't believe in the Eucharist: MINO and CINO respectively.

rombald
February 18, 2008 2:38 AM

Susan: "I read with dismay stories of people who have been in the UK for three or four generations who are plotting to blow up airplanes in the name of Islam. (I actually got stranded in the UK during one of these scares.) ...
I'd challenge you to come up with equivalent stories about the US. We have trouble sometimes with first-generation immigrants, but our difficulties with third-generation immigrants (besides wearing their iPods in their heads too much) are hard to find."

How many times do I have to say it - this is not a British problem or a European problem, but a Muslim problem.

In my original post, I actually went through, quite carefully, all the major immigrant groups in the UK, and showed that, apart from Muslims, they have all assimilated reasonably well, certainly no worse than in the USA. Did you read my post?

"Remind me to recommend your evaluation to the Imam the next time we meet. He's certain to be interested in the opinion of a non-Muslim Brit on this topic."

A Christian, almost by definition, believes in the need to proselytise - the Great Commission. There are different approaches - there are hellfire preachers on soapboxes, and people who think that good works and personal virtue will draw people to the faith - but a body that rejects conversion is not Christian. That's my evaluation as a non-Christian.

Islam also teaches that everyone should ideally be Muslim. However, it goes further than Christianity, in saying that Islam is not purely religious, but is a system for the whole of human life, including the legal system. This really is about as basic as you can get in a definition of Islam.

AnotherBeliever
February 18, 2008 2:30 PM

Anyone who in the same breath as condemning the Holocaust can say Muslims are INCAPABLE of assimilation, are inherently violent, are unreasonable, exist always in filth and squalor, and do not value knowledge or educating their children, REALLY needs re-examine what was said about the Jews in the 1930s.

There are problems in assimilation. But we in the United States have a better system laid out than in Europe, in my opinion. Our Constitution is what binds our very disparate parts, and not our ethnic nor even our religious identity. Couple that with a barebones welfare system (in comparison with a Social Welfare System as exists in many industrialized countries) which insists even asylum seekers work within a few years of arrival, and our policy of granting citizenship to anyone born within our borders; and our immigrants have more incentive to assimilate than do many of Europe's.

As far as "assimilation." Muslims have assimilated, and continue to do so. Thousands already play their part economically and socially in the United States. They work, pay taxes, send their children to school, buy houses, own businesses, shop, participate in local governance, and even run for and win political offices. What more do you want as proof of assimilation?

Will many Muslims continue to dress modestly, pray five times a day, go on Hajj, give to Islamic charities, fast at Ramadan, and attempt to convert the world around them to Islam? Yes. Those are the outward tenets of their faith! As long as as they seek their converts peacefully, without disturbing the peace, or undermining our government, they have the freedom to do so. As long as they pursue the other tenets of their faith according to law, they are also free to do so.

People tend to forget the great leeway we give to religious groups in our country. The Amish are permitted to follow their custom of not educating their children past the 8th grade. Jehovah's witnesses will not pledge allegiance to our flag. Neither they nor Mennonites nor other conscientious objectors are required to serve in our military during time of conscription. There are even religious waivers granted for vaccinations for children, despite the very real public health risk.

Now I hope as much as anyone that Muslim women do not begin to wear the full black face veil as they do in the Gulf countries, and increasingly, in Europe. And I hope that many (though not all, it is a free country) will continue to educate their children in the same schools as ours. I hope our more open-minded climate will not polarize Muslims against us as happened in some communities in Europe, and then perhaps these things will not come to pass.

As far as seeking to convert the world to Islam, Islam is hardly the only faith which seeks the conversion of all of humanity. Most conservative Christian groups seek the same goal. Indeed, I would have to say that persuading others of the truth and fullness of Christianity is a basic tenet of my OWN faith, even if my preferred method is not door-to-door Bible tract hand-outs.

There are real problems which need to be addressed here. There are Islamic groups which advocate violence, and Islamic charities which funnel money to terrorists. There are issues with domestic violence against women, as many Muslims hail from traditional cultures where such violence is tolerated, if not sanctioned. Law enforcement and civil law can address these problems. So can Muslim communities themselves.

We should neither sweep these problems under a rug, nor throw up our hands and refuse to address them with the excuse that Muslims are un-assimilatable. The only way violent movements inside Islam can be countered is by dividing these wayward groups out from the greater Islamic society as a whole. This will take initiative on the part of Muslims, and a coherent and nuanced policy on the part of the West. Saying "you are either with us or against us," only aggrandizes our enemy, which is giving him precisely what he wants.

Alicia
February 19, 2008 2:00 PM

Great post, as usual, AnotherBeliever. But, I also think Sarkozy's idea is really excellent. Anti-Semitism needs to confronted head-on, but not with violence, with acknowledgement of the problem, with education, and enforcment of the rule of law.

Anonymous
February 19, 2008 9:09 PM

It is increadible that in the shadow of a tragic event of biblical proportions in the history of humanity , like the Holocaust, there are still people (like the President of Iran), who challenge the validity of the this mass murder of innocent victims. I can only parallel them to the adherents to the " The World is Flat" believers.
`Armand (A Mauthausen Extermination Camp survivor)``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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