It's MARDI GRAS, baby! Big shout out to all the Louisiana expats! From Vic & Nat'ly to Dr. John the Night Tripper, all hail the Great State of Louisiana!...
But conscience compels me to point out that "Laissez les bon temps rouler" is not exactly a conservative sentiment. And the conservative elder statesmen with whom I am most familiar would growl "That's CRAP" if he heard this charming piece, and then tell me for the forty-millionth time that no music post-Mendelssohn is any good at all. He would then add for good measure that Mardi Gras is CRAP. So there's a bit of cognitive dissonance going on here as usual . . . .
Rod Dreher
February 5, 2008 9:03 PM
Sig, have I been with you so long? Have you not yet realized that not all conservatives can be so easily pigeonholed or caricatured?
Erin Manning
February 5, 2008 9:29 PM
'Tisn't her fault, Rod; she simply lacks theology and geometry.
sigaliris
February 5, 2008 9:29 PM
I regret to say that some conservatives are self-pigeon-holing, and my reference was to one such, not to all. I was raised in a harsh school of ironclad consistency. But you, Rod, can be charmingly inconsistent, and I am never more fond of you than in those moments. It makes me feel nostalgic for those far-off days when "liberal" and "conservative" were expressions of tendency or preference, schools of thought contending in a joust at Ullathorne, rather than ironclads barrelling toward Armageddon with guns a-blazing. Maybe I only dreamed of such a time, lulled by the tinkling ivories . . . .
sigaliris
February 5, 2008 9:36 PM
HA. I believe I could take the pair of you in a duel on either subject, or both! Chalkboards at thirty paces!
I leave my gauntlet for your consideration while I go back to my Bowflex Xtreme. I'm watching the election returns and getting pumped up for when the conspiracy takes over the world. Bwahahahaha . . . .
Erin Manning
February 5, 2008 11:04 PM
Ah, Sig. And here I was thinking of inviting you to join Bertie Stanhope and me in the ha-ha at Ullathorne, for some genteel reflection on art, life, class distinctions, and the more unctuous members of the clergy.
Sigh. Back toward Armageddon...
Rod Dreher
February 5, 2008 11:13 PM
Just curious, and I ask in a friendly spirit: why is it inconsistent to be a conservative who likes Dr. John? And, are liberals being charmingly inconsistent if they like Mendelssohn?
Baton Rouge Reader
February 5, 2008 11:27 PM
I haven't thought about Dr John since college, when "Ultimate Dr. John" came out. Thanks for the trip down memory lane...
But setting aside comparative musicality for just a moment, have you been able to get Abita's Mardi Gras Bock over in the Great State of Texas?
This year's brew is as fine as ever!
sigaliris
February 5, 2008 11:43 PM
Erin, I would gladly doff my greaves and have a nice cup of tea instead. All this jousting in the hot sun is quite enervating. ; )
Rod, I don't suppose there is any rule against liberals liking Mendelssohn, or classical music in general. I suppose some of the more intransigent leftists on the Spartacist fringe would consider classical music a mere by-product of an oppressive class structure . . . but you couldn't call those folks liberals.
I think the inconsistency in liking Dr. John is that such music originated in low-life kinds of places like bars and brothels and is associated with bad behavior that involves drinking and sex and wild dancing. Furthermore, it is offensive to the conservative faction that approves an aristocracy, of manners if not of blood, because it is associated with classes of people who possess neither the culture and self-restraint of the aristocracy nor the sturdy traditionalism of the folk.
My brother is quite a music aficionado and fell in love with jazz and blues in junior high school. By this time he is a walking encyclopedia of world music. One of the best presents I ever gave him was "Goodbye, Babylon," a boxed set of over 150 gospel songs and sermons. (And if you like American music, Rod, you simply HAVE to give this thing a listen. It is so amazing!)
Now, we all owe our musical ear to my father, who played music constantly. Many a morning we woke before dawn, groaning, to the sound of German marching bands or oboe concertos at cheery high volume. But woe betide my brother if he tries to insinuate that there might actually be something worth listening to after Mendelssohn. And M. is really a begrudging stretch--really the boundary is Bach, Bach and nothing but Bach. They get into serious fights over this issue.
Maclin Horton
February 6, 2008 10:38 AM
Sigaliris, I believe I disposed definitively of the question of conservatism and popular music some years ago. I do admire your father's relative consistency, despite his compromise on the early Romantics; I think one would have to stop at Mozart at the latest, preferably at Bach, in order to avoid the taint.
sigaliris
February 6, 2008 12:26 PM
Thanks for the link, Maclin! That was a very interesting article. I hope Rod reads it, as it explains some of what I was trying to say better than I did. My brother would agree with you. My father wouldn't. I can hear him now, in fact. "That's CRAP!" Mendelssohn was his only concession with regard to the early Romantics. He dislikes Beethoven. I can also hear him snorting incredulously at the idea that a conservative could possibly admire Wagner. Wagner is evil.
Maclin Horton
February 6, 2008 3:18 PM
You're welcome. My argument, by the way, just to make sure it's clear, would not really be with your father. My argument, at the time I wrote the article, was with conservatives who thought that American pop music up until approximately Elvis was all fine. I don't think there are as many of those types around anymore.
I think there's a lot to be said for the idea that most art (not just music) since ca. 1800 is less than healthy. In fact I pretty much agree with it, up to the point where it moves from that observation to a complete rejection of the art, because I think it has a lot of good things going for it, too.
Regarding Wagner, I just discovered that if you google "is wagner bad for you?", the first hit is this post on my blog.
Oh, by the way: how is "sigaliris" supposed to be pronounced?
sigaliris
February 7, 2008 8:09 AM
Just in case you're still reading this one, Maclin, that was an interesting post on Wagner as well. You obviously know more about music than I do. I'm sort of an "I know what I like" person. And I've never liked Wagner. I completely agree with your take on Siegfried--LOL! Music is a language, and like any language, you have to spend a lot of time listening to it before it begins to make sense to you. Baroque music was my milk language, as it were, so I'll always like it best--in addition to any objective analysis of its merits.
I understand your point about consistency with regard to pop music, and I think you got that right, too. It's no use letting all those jazz and blues elements sneak in and then being shocked, SHOCKED to find Mama allowing some rock and roll playing in here.
To pronounce sigaliris, think "signal lyrics," then take out the g and the n and the c. Simple! A sigaliris is a small green moth with randomly shaped transparent patches on its wings, the better to counterfeit a partially decayed leaf for purposes of concealment.
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Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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I love Dr. John.
But conscience compels me to point out that "Laissez les bon temps rouler" is not exactly a conservative sentiment. And the conservative elder statesmen with whom I am most familiar would growl "That's CRAP" if he heard this charming piece, and then tell me for the forty-millionth time that no music post-Mendelssohn is any good at all. He would then add for good measure that Mardi Gras is CRAP. So there's a bit of cognitive dissonance going on here as usual . . . .
Sig, have I been with you so long? Have you not yet realized that not all conservatives can be so easily pigeonholed or caricatured?
'Tisn't her fault, Rod; she simply lacks theology and geometry.
I regret to say that some conservatives are self-pigeon-holing, and my reference was to one such, not to all. I was raised in a harsh school of ironclad consistency. But you, Rod, can be charmingly inconsistent, and I am never more fond of you than in those moments. It makes me feel nostalgic for those far-off days when "liberal" and "conservative" were expressions of tendency or preference, schools of thought contending in a joust at Ullathorne, rather than ironclads barrelling toward Armageddon with guns a-blazing. Maybe I only dreamed of such a time, lulled by the tinkling ivories . . . .
HA. I believe I could take the pair of you in a duel on either subject, or both! Chalkboards at thirty paces!
I leave my gauntlet for your consideration while I go back to my Bowflex Xtreme. I'm watching the election returns and getting pumped up for when the conspiracy takes over the world. Bwahahahaha . . . .
Ah, Sig. And here I was thinking of inviting you to join Bertie Stanhope and me in the ha-ha at Ullathorne, for some genteel reflection on art, life, class distinctions, and the more unctuous members of the clergy.
Sigh. Back toward Armageddon...
Just curious, and I ask in a friendly spirit: why is it inconsistent to be a conservative who likes Dr. John? And, are liberals being charmingly inconsistent if they like Mendelssohn?
I haven't thought about Dr John since college, when "Ultimate Dr. John" came out. Thanks for the trip down memory lane...
But setting aside comparative musicality for just a moment, have you been able to get Abita's Mardi Gras Bock over in the Great State of Texas?
This year's brew is as fine as ever!
Erin, I would gladly doff my greaves and have a nice cup of tea instead. All this jousting in the hot sun is quite enervating. ; )
Rod, I don't suppose there is any rule against liberals liking Mendelssohn, or classical music in general. I suppose some of the more intransigent leftists on the Spartacist fringe would consider classical music a mere by-product of an oppressive class structure . . . but you couldn't call those folks liberals.
I think the inconsistency in liking Dr. John is that such music originated in low-life kinds of places like bars and brothels and is associated with bad behavior that involves drinking and sex and wild dancing. Furthermore, it is offensive to the conservative faction that approves an aristocracy, of manners if not of blood, because it is associated with classes of people who possess neither the culture and self-restraint of the aristocracy nor the sturdy traditionalism of the folk.
My brother is quite a music aficionado and fell in love with jazz and blues in junior high school. By this time he is a walking encyclopedia of world music. One of the best presents I ever gave him was "Goodbye, Babylon," a boxed set of over 150 gospel songs and sermons. (And if you like American music, Rod, you simply HAVE to give this thing a listen. It is so amazing!)
Now, we all owe our musical ear to my father, who played music constantly. Many a morning we woke before dawn, groaning, to the sound of German marching bands or oboe concertos at cheery high volume. But woe betide my brother if he tries to insinuate that there might actually be something worth listening to after Mendelssohn. And M. is really a begrudging stretch--really the boundary is Bach, Bach and nothing but Bach. They get into serious fights over this issue.
Sigaliris, I believe I disposed definitively of the question of conservatism and popular music some years ago. I do admire your father's relative consistency, despite his compromise on the early Romantics; I think one would have to stop at Mozart at the latest, preferably at Bach, in order to avoid the taint.
Thanks for the link, Maclin! That was a very interesting article. I hope Rod reads it, as it explains some of what I was trying to say better than I did. My brother would agree with you. My father wouldn't. I can hear him now, in fact. "That's CRAP!" Mendelssohn was his only concession with regard to the early Romantics. He dislikes Beethoven. I can also hear him snorting incredulously at the idea that a conservative could possibly admire Wagner. Wagner is evil.
You're welcome. My argument, by the way, just to make sure it's clear, would not really be with your father. My argument, at the time I wrote the article, was with conservatives who thought that American pop music up until approximately Elvis was all fine. I don't think there are as many of those types around anymore.
I think there's a lot to be said for the idea that most art (not just music) since ca. 1800 is less than healthy. In fact I pretty much agree with it, up to the point where it moves from that observation to a complete rejection of the art, because I think it has a lot of good things going for it, too.
Regarding Wagner, I just discovered that if you google "is wagner bad for you?", the first hit is this post on my blog.
Oh, by the way: how is "sigaliris" supposed to be pronounced?
Just in case you're still reading this one, Maclin, that was an interesting post on Wagner as well. You obviously know more about music than I do. I'm sort of an "I know what I like" person. And I've never liked Wagner. I completely agree with your take on Siegfried--LOL! Music is a language, and like any language, you have to spend a lot of time listening to it before it begins to make sense to you. Baroque music was my milk language, as it were, so I'll always like it best--in addition to any objective analysis of its merits.
I understand your point about consistency with regard to pop music, and I think you got that right, too. It's no use letting all those jazz and blues elements sneak in and then being shocked, SHOCKED to find Mama allowing some rock and roll playing in here.
To pronounce sigaliris, think "signal lyrics," then take out the g and the n and the c. Simple! A sigaliris is a small green moth with randomly shaped transparent patches on its wings, the better to counterfeit a partially decayed leaf for purposes of concealment.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.