Barack Obama's Jeremiah Wright problem

How has this church not already run foul of IRS guidelines?

How has this church not already run foul of IRS guidelines?

I'm not so sure it will be an issue. You're presuming a media really willing to take him to task. Outside of Chicago, I doubt they will.

Besides, Wright's hero worship of Farrakhan is already common knowledge, and Obama hasn't been pressed on that. This is much more a third rail for reporters, and I can't see them touching it.

Come on, Sig, don't be naive. Think of another context. It's true that Jews are disproportionately represented among the Hollywood power structure. But the kind of people who rant about how "the Jews run Hollywood" are not people out to make a mere sociological observation. Neither is Jeremiah Wright.

The last time I checked Jesus Christ was not "a black man," the way Reverend Wright claims. He was a member of that other ethnic minority -- you know, the one that Reverend Wright's friend Minister Farrakhan is so fond of -- you know, the one that that "great man" Herr Hitler was also quite enamored with.

Also, I wonder if will.i.am will be setting *this* speech to music.....

What's he whining about?

His candidate may be the next Leader of the Free World. If elected (can't believe I just typed that), will those of Wright's ilk finally be satisfied that we've come a long way since 1964?

"G*d Damn America!"

What church has such a lax policy on blasphmemy?

Katherine,

"Some of what Wright says is quite offensive, but we all know that's not why Obama goes to that church, and we simply do not ever apply this level of scrutiny to white preachers endorsing white candidates."

I have absolutely no idea why Obama goes to that church. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Very very convenient for rich white men to declare that observation out of bounds.

I'll alert my wife and my tax preparer that we're rich. And to think that last night I was sitting at the dining table pulling my hair out over medical bills. Sure wish I had the Obamas' income.

1. The claim that Jesus is black is no more controversial then the claim that he was white. He was most likely middle eastern with an olive tinted skin. But the fact of the matter is no one knows, and no one has definitive proof.

Daniel,

It is an absolute slander on the overwhelming majority of African-American Christians who are orthodox (small-o) in their theology and in no way racist of anti-semitic to imply that Jeremiah Wright and the bile he spews are in any way representative of (as you imply) "Black churches."

Dale Price: "I'm not so sure it will be an issue. You're presuming a media really willing to take him to task. Outside of Chicago, I doubt they will."

If Obama gets "swift-boated" on the issue of Wright in conservative ads that appear all over the country, the press will be forced to address it.

I just can't agree with the proposition that Rod serves up. There is a difference between faith, between spiritual leadership and with politics: to put it bluntly, you can be a warm, spiritual, fatherly person and be - sorry - an idiot.

Wright could very well have provided the guidance that one would want from a spiritual leader and be completely wrong on practically every issue. I've many people like that in churches through the years - both in the pulpit and in the congregation - sometimes dumb as a brick and woefully ignorant (and oblivious to their ingrained racism) but decent, good people, pious and faithful.

So by all means, Obama should distance himself from some of Rev. Wright's wilder claims, but who are we to judge a relationship between a person and God, between a believer - who was a young man in trouble once, perhaps - and a father figure who offered him - spiritually speaking - a helping hand.

The conservative meme begins.

Modern debating rule one: When defending the indefensible, talk about "memes."

Wright is a controversial guy. I don't think he needs to have a Sister Souljah moment any more than John McCain needs to have a similar moment with far-right religious extremists he attracts.

If someone close to John McCain gave that kind of idiotic, irreligious rant about race it would be all over the media and the blogosphere.

People don't understand the Black church. People don't understand Black liberation theology.

Maybe because so many black "churches" are little more than political meeting halls. And the patina of "theology" covering this Bozo's racialist rant is so thin a sneeze could wash it away.

So the things Wright says and the things Obama's personal church stand for are as foreign to most Americans as Romney's Mormon church or Rod Dreher's Orthodox church.

Hmmm....I don't recall Mike Dukakis being burdened by disgraceful, angry harangues on his behalf by Archbishop Iakovos.

If Obama gets "swift-boated" on the issue of Wright in conservative ads that appear all over the country, the press will be forced to address it.

Perhaps. But only in the context of criticizing the ads, which was how the anti-Kerry material was handled.

Much less disagreeable than what I was talking about, which is hitting the question head on.

Daniel: "People don't understand Black liberation theology. So the things Wright says and the things Obama's personal church stand for are as foreign to most Americans as Romney's Mormon church or Rod Dreher's Orthodox church. Anytime your faith experience is outside the mainstream--as Black churches are, as Mormon churches are, and yes, as Orthodox churches are--there is going to be things lost in translation."

Very savvy observation. Wright's statements don't strike me as categorically different from the potentially divisive statements I hear from pastors in other traditions, including my own Orthodox Christian tradition.

Of course "rich white people" run America, to the extent that it is accurate to say that anyone "runs" America. What is the number, something like 2 black US senators and 2 black governors elected since Reconstruction?

Wright is a child of the black church, a broad social-religious movement that began out of a desperate need for a people to cohere and embrace a life-giving narrative in the face of the real threat of annilihation as a people. Of course he has preached sermons that break things down in terms of race. I don't agree with him, but I'm not offended by him either. That might change if he were even implicitly endorsing any kind of violence, but I haven't seen any evidence of that.

I think in our shout-fest culture, the general public reaction to Wright is going to be a collective shrug.

Bless,
Doug

Pyrrho: Well, I have pretty much the same reaction to whites who see the world through a prism of race as I do towards blacks who see the world through a prism of race. The difference between Duke and Wright is that Duke ran for public office. Wright isn't. Obama should speak more about his understanding of the philosophy of Wright, just like McCain should speak more about his understanding of the philosophy of Rod Parsley.

BTW, I'm surprised Rod hasn't picked up on this one yet:

http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

Yes, its from Mother Jones via Huffington Post, which is why I'd like to see a more trustworthy source like Rod shine a light on this story:

"Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it."

Bless,
Doug

>>>
I'll alert my wife and my tax preparer that we're rich. And to think that last night I was sitting at the dining table pulling my hair out over medical bills. Sure wish I had the Obamas' income.
Posted by: Rod Dreher | March 13, 2008 3:18 PM
>>>

That's a red herring, Rod - rich white men run America, but it does not follow that all white men are rich or that all white men run America.

It's a small club and you and I aren't in it.

"People don't understand Black liberation theology."

Maybe they're starting to, and that's the problem.

You mean it's possible to look any dumber after this statement?

Ees joke, silly rabbit.

Wait a minute, I thought Obama was supposed to be a Muslim?

I had expected a 50 state victory for Obama in the general election. Now I'm thinking a 50 state victory for McCain. Might as well give him the keys now.

I voted Obama in California but dang I have to say, really irks me that Obama would take his kids to listen to this "man of God". David Duke almost looks measured compared to this guy.

This comment from the Get Religion website almost a year ago sounds quite prescient to me:

"Evaluation, or criticism, of Jeremiah Wright’s theology is not in itself ugliness. Wright is a gadfly, and that’s bound to attract journalistic and political curiosity. Still, the decision about where to attend church always depends on the pastoral realities of a city, a denomination and a congregation. Barack Obama made a conscious decision to become a Christian while attending Trinity United Church of Christ. For Christians and others who are inclined to vote for him anyway, that probably will be enough reason to allow Jeremiah Wright his political, social and theological hobby horses and not to assume that Obama predictably rides alongside him."

http://www.getreligion.org/?p=2284

Bless,
Doug

So, what about the whole 501(c)(3)(?) thing?

Is it time to dispense with the rule that threatens the tax-exempt status of churches that say political things or give their pulpits to political candidates?

Because a related issue is Wright's overt endorsement of Obama in a recent sermon.

Why anyone wants to attend a church where the centerpiece is the lengthy performance sermon by the "pastor" is beyond me.

Why I did it for so many years is also beyond me. :^)

Here's where whites and blacks tend to split ways on how to deal with the history of race. Whites tend to think that the way to resolve race problems of America is to move forward as quickly as possible from the past. Stop doing what we used to do and move forward is the answer.

From the black perspective, there was so much damage done to the black community and psyche during the centuries of slavery and racial oppression that saying, "OK we won't do that anymore" and expecting things to be OK is a cruel joke. By the time white America actually did begin moving forward, the tenuous threads of black family, economic stability, education and other necessary building blocks of success in America were already frayed and damaged beyond easy repair. It would be like if we had a marathon where participants were allowed to break the bones of all of the blonds in the race at will. Then at about mile 20, they agreed that it was cruel and wrong, so they stopped doing it. But without taking the time to mend the bones and re-train muscles damaged over the many miles through appropriate physical therapy it would be insane to say that since no one was breaking the blond people's bones anymore, they were able to compete well.

Many black people are upset that America seems to think that because white people, who bore little damage from our country's centuries of racist policies, are able to move forward fairly quickly, easily and unencumbered from those days, that black people should be able to as well.

I think that the black perspective has a lot more validity than most white people really want to grant it. However, I think that part of the problem is people like Rev. Wright and others who believe that white America's unwillingness to deal with the damage of centuries of oppression is due to a desire to remain in a priveleged position. I don't think that is the case, but I don't think the fact that people like Wright have misdiagnosed the motivations of white folks in dealing with race means that white people are justified in continuing to work solely from their perspective either.

Rod: "Ees joke, silly rabbit."

I know. That doesn't make it any less dumb.

Reaganite in NYC: "His ideas are a cancer on authentic Christianity and the Body of Christ."

Well, from the Orthodox Christian perspective, no more so than the ideas of the vast majority of Protestants, Catholics and other non-Orthodox Christians.

Bless,
Doug

Rebeccat, I agree with you that there has been grievous damage done to the black community over centuries, and that saying let's just start playing fair now isn't fair to the parties that were injured and still are.

But what policies is the pastor proposing to help remedy this breakdown in the black community and psyche? It sounds to me like he's just preaching the same old stay-the-victim and whitey-keeps-us-down and we're-powerless themes. I don't see how this helps, and I won't be party to enabling it.

Reaganite: "Judging by the fact that he has stuck with Wright for TWENTY years, he must have liked something of what he heard."

I agree completely. I expect that this sermon is not indicative of the vast majority of Wright's preaching. I'm sure most of it doesn't mention race. I'm not of a mind to dive in to the collected teachings of Wright, but I expect that if Obama was to speak to your point, he would say that he "liked something of what he heard," which means all the parts of Wright's preaching that is not so focused on race. Even the majority of the collected works of David Duke is probably pretty tame and banal boilerplate Christianity; why should Wright's collected works be any different?

Bless,
Doug

Doug: it seems that very Sunday after 9/11 this Reverend Wright blasted the U.S. and pretty much said we deserved it. Just saying. Doesn't sound like this was just a one time crazy rant. And Obama takes his kids there.

Not that I know of. The Brotherhood of Saint Moses the Black publishes the book, which includes some of the lectures and testimonies presented at the Ancient Christianity and African-American Conferences. I'm tempted drive to their conference in Springfield, MO, May 30-June 1, if only to meet Fr. Berry and participate in the Liturgy at his church. Their Website is:

mosestheblack.org/

An interview with the founder, Fr. Moses Berry, can be read here:

conciliarpress.pinnaclecart.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=again_berry_interview_part_one

Then there is this article by Dr. Albert Raboteau, which discusses America, slavery, African-Americans and the church:

bostonreview.net/BR30.2/raboteau.html

Re: AN UNBROKEN CIRCLE - If you buy the book, you will not be disappointed.

Ooops! My post was a response to Reaganite in NYC

And ... Doug beat me to the Moses Berry interview link (I think it was he who also first clued me to the interview in a post several days ago here).

Simon, I think that the problem is that a lot of white folks, especially conservatives assume that in order to be a uniting force, one must move past the problems of race in this country. The other side of the argument is that in order to move past the problems of race in this country, we must first come together to deal with those problems. If you expect Obama, or almost any african american to do the former while skipping over the dealing with the problems part, that is a fool's errand, IMO.

However, I think that as a black man who will work for the good of all people while holding a perspective which understands the unique problems of african americans which must be considered when working for the common good, then perhaps Obama could be such a person.

I am concerned however, that there are a lot of people married to the idea that getting past race can/should happen by showing that black people can/should be no different than white people in opinion, perspective, expectations and such. Like I said, if that's the path to overcoming race you're looking for, I don't think Obama is or could be your guy.

I'm concerned that there seems to be a perspective out there which thinks that to the extent that Obama holds to views which are more natural to black folks in this country, he is less able to represent the nation as a whole. I would love to see us able to understand that our differences do not have to be divisive. I think that is part of Obama's appeal for some people - that they can deal with someone who is different from themselves in a constructive way rather letting those differences become deal breakers. I'm not sure he can do that, but I am absolutely certain that no one could bring us to racial reconciliation by ways of the path which many conservatives seem to want to take.

One thing I have never understood-what color Jesus was or wasn't is irrelevant; it's His Ideas, His Theology, His Divinity that matter.If He was purple or yellow or gray, it wouldn't really matter. Just because culminating with "King of Kings" he's been depicted by Jeffrey Hunter and Max Von Sydow(2 guys he almost certainly did not look like!)doesn't much matter,and to get excised about it bespeaks silliness and stupidity.Why a supposed man of God would dwell on it seems preposterous.

Jesus was likely a Sephardic Jewish fellow,what we would today describe as Middle Eastern or Medditerreanean. Think Pacino(Sicilian or Napolitan), Gene Simmons of Kiss(an Israeli) or the guy who plays "Monk"(Middle Eastern).I kinda think stupidity like that of Reverend Wright shold be met with derision and laughter.

Simply Farakhan is a criminal. He was complicit in the murders of Malcolm X and NYPD Patrolman Philip Cardillo. Anyone who honors such an animal deserves to be scorned. If Obama cannot see that association as a problem, he shoulnd't be running for any office.

Doug Cramer and Eric W.:

Many, many thanks for the links. I will dive into them eagerly. Not sure about getting the book, though :-) Got too many unread books laying (lying?) around already.

Doug Cramer: Your expectatation about the full measure and value of Reverence Wright's writings/exhortations may (or may not) turn out to be justified. We'll soon know. What's coming out now, however, isn't very reassuring.

"Thats a conservative line, demonstrating Obama's transcendance of the old-school politics."

Bill Clinton campaigned as a conservative too. That doesn't necessarily mean a thing.

I think most people assume that all politicians fudge and sugar-coat their real intentions in an attempt to be what most voters want them to be. That's why we care so much about issues like this one, and how they've talked and acted (especially voted) in the past: we hope for a glimpse past the campaign facade into who they really are and would be after elected. Obama is saying one thing in his speeches, but his writings and mentors say another thing. It's up to him to reconcile that.

Simon: Does McCain even go to church? I wonder if his seeming apathy to a passionate embrace of a faith community might in some ways be as big a handicap as Obama's fire-breathing pastor. To be fair, if we're going to drill Obama on his religious beliefs because of how they might inform his policy, shouldn't we do the same to McCain? What does he believe, for instance, about whether or not sex outside of marriage is a sin; about the resurrection of Jesus Christ; about the sacraments; about the impact and place of the black religious experience in contemporary American culture and policy? McCain's social/religious beliefs are as much an unknown as Obama's, yet we assume that Obama's are going to be more controversial?

Who cares what McCain's personal religious beliefs and practices are? That isn't the issue with Obama.

The Illinois Senator's problem is that Rev. Wright has been a very close, important figure throughout Obama's entire adult life. That very close associate is now espousing views that (1) the vast majority of Americans will find repulsive, and (2) radically contradict the central theme of the Obama Campaign.

Believe me, if Obama doesn't denounce this kind of "preaching", the issue will be lethal to his campaign in November.

Simon: "Who cares what McCain's personal religious beliefs and practices are? That isn't the issue with Obama. The Illinois Senator's problem is that Rev. Wright has been a very close, important figure throughout Obama's entire adult life. "

Sorry, you lost me. Isn't your general position that we need to know what Obama's personal socio-religious beliefs are so that we can determine whether he hews to Wright's teachings or not? And if we need to know what Obama believes in order to determine whether he believes what Wright believes, don't we need to know what McCain believes as well if we're choosing between the two of them for the presidency?

Bless,
Doug

simon, why couldn't he appeal to white people AND show concern for the issues of african americans in this country? He hasn't shown any indication that he, like Jesse Jackson or Sharpton, is concerned with only issues of race. So why would a concern for the place and well being of black people in American as one of many things he is concerned about be poison?

It seems to me that in order for that to be the case, people would have to hold to the outdated idea that "black issues" were necessarily in conflict with the best interests of everyone else. I could be wrong, but I really don't think that's how people think of it anymore.

At this point, the ills of black culture have crept so far into the living rooms of middle class white people, I'm not sure an awareness of and appreciation for "black issues" wouldn't actually be a plus. I'm not at all sure that Obama actually has any good answers for those problems, but I don't think saying, "see - secretly he's all about race" will stick as a smear either. I'm not even convinced that it would be seen as a smear at all by a good number of people.

As for how Wright's rhetoric plays into this, I think that Obama would have a very easy time of saying, "I don't agree with all of the rhetoric, but I appreciate that he cares enough about the challenges african americans face to speak out passionately about them when many people would rather turn away or throw their hands up in despair over. Perhaps if others would join me in finding new solutions and working to solve the problems of our inner cities and lost youth with the same amount of passion Rev. Wright has, we can show our good Rev. and the American people a better way forward."

Hmmmm . . . I wonder what the reaction to a speech like that would be around these here parts?

I have visions of an editorial cartoon in which Obama and McCain are playing poker and Obama says, "I'll see your Hagee and raise you one Wright."

simon, why couldn't he appeal to white people AND show concern for the issues of african americans in this country? He hasn't shown any indication that he, like Jesse Jackson or Sharpton, is concerned with only issues of race. So why would a concern for the place and well being of black people in American as one of many things he is concerned about be poison?

rebeccat, I appreciate where you're trying to go, but this kind of thing just won't come across to the public at large as showing "concern for the issues of african americans in this country." It's an Al Sharpton-style racialist rant. Rightly or wrongly, that kind of thing is a deal killer for most Americans (and not just whites, by the way, but also Asians and Latinos).

Again, it's potentially lethal to the Obama Campaign because (1) it's coming from a longtime close associate, whom Obama has identified as a crucial, formative influence on his adult life, and (2) it's directly contrary to the post-racial, bring-us-together image that Obama has assiduously cultivated.

The flip side of being a fresh face is that Obama is largely unknown to most Americans (which is what made Hillary's 3 AM Ad so effective). That problem is exaggerated by the platitudes about Hope and Change that Obama emphasizes. If the public starts to suspect that those platitudes are just a cover for sympathizing with Sharptonesque race ranting, Obama will be absolutely finished.

And if you're John McCain, you can only hope that public perception begins to crystalize after it's too late for Hillary to block this guy's nomination.

Leaving aside whatever defense one might be able to mount of Wright's views on other grounds, what defense can one mount of them on specifically *Christian* grounds? It's not only that Wright's message is incongruous when put beside Obama's message of "hope," but also that it's incongruous when put beside the gospel message of Christ that Wright is supposed to proclaim. Within *other* ethical philosophies, there are any number of justifications for being as resentful and vindictive as Wright so clearly is. But where does one find such justification within orthodox (small-o) Christianity? That's not a rhetorical question. If someone has an answer, I'd really like to know.

Granted that lay Christians can be resentful and vindictive a lot of the time, maybe more often than some other sorts of people -- that *why* they're Christian; they *know* they need to be saved.

But Wright is *not* a lay Christian. He claims to be a minister. If so, he ought to know better than this.

Jeremiah's known to bullshoot
Was a cloth-man of mine
I never hoped they'd learn a single word he said
But he helped me along the line
And now he's turning out to test my spine

Jeremiah Wright
Doesn't mean he's right
Jeremi' you put me in some deep doo-dy
Jeremiah, thee

Daniel,

Democrats have to attract working class whites to some degree to win. They as a group aren't very comfortable with a minister who refers to "KKK" America and shouts that he can't say God Bless America but rants "GD America" over and over.

What context are they supposed to hear that in?

"He ain't white, he ain't rich, and he ain't privileged."

I just found that sentence so funny, because, when you remember that his mother is Caucasian, you realize that EVERY one of those statements is wrong.

God bless.

My husband asked me last night why Obama never talks about his mother anymore. I remember early on that we used to see pictures of her. I don't see them anymore. How does a Black/Caucasian man only refer to himself as the Black candidate? I've always felt that if I only told people about my Caucasian mother and not my Black father that I would be disrespecting one of the two of them. I'm both. Why isn't he? How can racism exist when a person is both Black and White? I guess I'm a racist because I don't feel that I have the right to disrespect my parents. But which racist am I? Somebody enlighten me. I'm certain that you will.

J.P. Morgan, the investment banker, maintained an "unlikely friendship" with a radical (for the time) preacher named William S. Rainsford, who was his minister/confessor for almost thirty years. As related in Strouse's "Morgan":

"Morgan stood behind [Rainsford] with moral support and an open checkbook - even when they disagreed, which was often - and stood beside him at the church doors every Sunday morning, greeting parishoners as co-host and guardian of the proceedings."

I haven't thought much about the Rev. Wright situation, but I just thought I'd toss this out there.

Friendships between people who dont agree on everything used to be not that uncommon. Remember Reagan and Tip O'Neil used to have a drink together pretty often. Reagan turned out pretty good anyway. Even more common, how often do we see kids who grow up to become totally different than their parents. If he has been buds with this guy for 20 years we should have evidence by now that the negative parts have rubbed off.

Steve

Steve,

The last time I checked, Tip O'Neill wasn't Ronald Reagan's "spiritual mentor," nor was Ronald Reagan Tip O'Neill's "spiritual mentor." Barack Obama's relationship with Jeremiah Wright is in no meaningful sense analogous to the relationship between O'Neill and Reagan -- which, in any event, was nowhere near as close as the relationship between Obama and Wright. This is just a long way of saying that you clearly have no substantive answer to my previous post.

If Romney's Mormonism is fair game and it required that he give a speech to address it at Texas A & M, then Obama's religion is fair game as well. But, of course, Obama chose his church and pastor as an adult. Romney was born into his faith. Obama just picked a church and a pastor. Romney is stuck with LDS history. Obama does not have to embrace Wright's present. So, the media should be much harder on Obama than on Romney, IMHO

FJB

I dunno how this all plays out in the election. But I do have an observation about WHY this comes up and WHY the questions get asked.

Obama is "political lite". Platitudes and generalized "goals" are all he speaks about in terms of what he wants. He delivers his speeches well, and he seems sure to always have all the 'positive' words and phrases integrated.

The problem is, after all this time, we haven't a freaking clue what Obama thinks. We have not a freaking clue how he views his own country, except that he refuses to pledge allegiance to the flag and that he's disrespectful to it as well.

THAT, my friends, has left a LOT of people scrambling to find something, ANYTHING resembling a clue, and most of those 'clues' don't look real good.

Now, I love my country. Warts and all. I will fly my flag ANYWHERE. And I will pledge my allegiance to it, no matter what, because the ideals written into law by the founding fathers have no superlative anywhere on earth. You can argue otherwise until you have worn your voice away, and you will make NO dent on me.

I want a president who believes in the country like I do. What kind of idiots, for examble, would want a CEO or president of IBM, if before he was named for the office, his only public evidence of opinion of IBM was that it was a horrible company, utterly unworthy of existence?

I have not the slightest interest in having a president who does not think that this is the greatest nation on earth, filled with the greatest people. My only clue in this, is that he has a pastor that thinks I am the cause of other people's problems, solely because of my skin color.

I also have no interest in having a president who will not open his mouth in objection when someone says this nation is inherently racist to the core, imperialist, blah, blah, blah. Whether he agrees or not, his lack of passion to defend is what disturbs. No amount of intellectual dithering about "wright was technically true" about this or that really matters.

If Obama wasn't angry at hearing Wright's commentary, then he and I have a very large lack of common belief in our country.

And THAT is what's driving this discussion.

Go into a room full of truck owners, and say "Ford's SUCK!" and you'll find that a good lot of people react, one way or another. Those who agree tend to nod along, those who don't tend to react with a little indignation. But claim that the country is evil to the core, which gets a lot personal to every American, and Obama doesnt' react in defense, we instinctively "know" his lack of passion. As small of an issue as truck brands are, the real important things, like the character of our nation - and that someone has by association, condemned us as evil, should be cause to react with fervor.

Now, it can be easily argued, that Obama has had no proper opportunity to provide reaction. That he's being circumspect and just being a polished politician who tries to stay above such base things.

There are some things that evoke that gut reaction in me. Attack my kids, my wife, my country, and a few other choice things, and I am NOT passive. I am passionate about those things, and I believe I should be. We observe this lack of "gut" in Obama instinctively, and because of that, we look for clues. I don't want "polished". I want a real man, with a square jaw and a clear eye, to stand up without pretense, and set things straight. That's one of the great qualities of Americans.

And that's how Jeremiah Wright seems relevant. If we gut connected with Obama, in his strident and passionate love and defense of our national character, Wright would be as irrelevant as David Duke is today. If Obama's wife had not displayed her contempt for our object of passion, perhaps we'd have even fewer questions. But mainly, it's because we rightly or wrongly have an instinct that we want something shared by our president, and we do not instinctively know if he shares our passion for our country, that Wright becomes relevant.

Wright wasnt Obama's political mentor. I am voting for President not Spirit in chief. I think its perfectly valid to go after Obama for lack of experience if you dont think his time as state legislator is important. I am favorably impressed by Cutler on health and Goolsbee on economics for example.

Again I ask (sincerely as I take my voting seriously) is this just guilt by association or are there specific instances where Obama has behaved in a way that would reflect Wright's words?

Steve

Steve-

Obama got the title of his "Audacity of Hope" book from one of Wright's sermons. This isn't some 3rd party. Obama has made a point of saying this man is his spiritual mentor. And spare the church building , Wright's a ranting loon on a street corner.Any "Christian" obsessed with what skin tone Christ was or wasn't is a blasted fool. Add in honoring a murderous criminal like Farakhan, and the man is toxic. No Dem is winning anything without blue collar white people, and a racist maniac like Wright is going to be a dealbreaker.

Obama has to deal with the fact that his wife and spititual both clearly believe this is a bad, evil country, and don't seem constrained not to say so. Now, he may not have voiced those wrongheaded sentiments, but how do you get around 2 very important people in his life, have and continue to do so? Doesn't exactly have the ring of hope and change. In fact, the only substance from Obama's campign thus far is his wife's bile.

I don't think Wright is being serious. I think he's a comedian mocking Black preachers, and he does a really good job.

Obama has to deal with the fact that his wife and spititual both clearly believe this is a bad, evil country, and don't seem constrained not to say so.

Except neither has said such a thing.

Daniel, I beg to differ. Just this morning, the Today Show ran a clip of another Jeremiah Wright sermon in which he blamed America for 9/11. As I said previously above, Jeremiah Wright and his close, admired friend, Louis Farrakhan traveled to visit Moamar Quadafi. Hmmm... and Obama says he'd meet with world leaders who hate America "without preconditions."

Wright rants about how no one ever called Hillary the n-word. I assume that being called a b*tch by all and sundry of those who dislike her couldn't be hurtful, because, obviously, all women are b*tchs and hos.

Those who strongly support Obama are not going to be moved by it, because they understand the spirit and context.

This election isn't going to be decided by those who strongly support Obama. 90% of the electorate doesn't know anything about this guy. His campaign has tried to use that fact as a strength -- the new face who will transform politics forever, bring us all together, yadda yadda. Project whatever you want on to him.

The flip side to being fresh and new is that Obama's also undefined. His rhetorical reliance on pablum doesn't help him in that regard. If this kind of idiocy from a very close associate of his signals to the public that, underneath all that shallow talk about Hope and Unity and Change, Obama may be sympathetic to views that most Americans find disgraceful -- then his campaign is toast.

Serious, NRO had at least five posts on this topic and now yours. This is a conservative meme playing out trying to whip up racial anxiety. The dog don't hunt, except among people in your social circle who wouldn't vote for Obama anyway.

Daniel, I haven't seen NRO yesterday or today and only saw the video right here on Rod's site. You can label arguments "memes" all you want, but it doesn't mean they don't have political salience.

I gotta give you credit for boldness, though: Defending Rev. Wright's angry diatribe against the "rich white people" and the "Europeans" who killed a "black man named Jesus" ... while simultaneously accusing the critics of his inflammatory rhetoric of trying to "whip up racial anxiety." Wow.

Suburban soccer moms who may be swayed by it are too concerned about putting dinner on the table and wondering why Republicans support torture and aren't going to worry about Obama's preacher.

You must be living in a parallel universe in which torture is a major issue on the mind of the electorate (as opposed to hard core Democratic activists), and in which anyone could credibly use that issue in a general election against torture victim John McCain.

Anyway, Daniel, I hope most Democrats see the political fall-out of this the way you do. All things being equal, the 2008 election should have been a lay-up for the Democrats. With Obama as the party's nominee, it could be a slam dunk ... or an air ball.

Although I am not completely familiar with Reverend Wright, as an African-American, I find it interesting how quickly some want to tie this man so closely to Senator Obama. Yes, some of the things that Pastor Wright has said have been outrageous, and yes, it seems as though Barack Obama has a very close personal relationship with him. HOWEVER, just because he has a close relationship with him does not mean that he has to agree with everything he says. Senator Obama has already made statements to that effect. Senator Obama has every right to remain close to his pastor as his spiritual advisor. Outrageous comments notwithstanding, I'm sure Reverend Wright has been a part of Senator Obama's development as a Christian. And as far as Hillary being called this name or that name, take note that both candidates have NEVER publicly called each other ANYTHING. But with that said, I think Hillary would have an easier time catching a taxi in New York or DC than myself or Senator Obama.

Doug, the point I was making, however badly, is that many people feel that calling a woman, especially a powerful women, a b*tch is hardly even an insult. John McCain didn't handle it well when a woman supporter at a "meet and greet" called Hillary a b*tch. And she's a colleague in the Senate whom he is on very friendly terms with. People make a joke out of it, and Hillary (or anyone else) isn't supposed to be hurt or offended by it. Why?

Doug,

What can Obama's "development as a Christian" have been like if it came under the tutelage of Jeremiah Wright? This is an honest question for Christians who might vote for Obama and who want to know if Obama is an orthodox Christian or not. Nothing we have seen of Jeremiah Wright suggests that Wright is an orthodox Christian; virtually everything we have seen is very much at adds without any orthodox understanding of the gospels and of Christian morality. It is Obama himself who has made both "transendence" of race and his personal "faith" selling-points in his campaign. And it is likewise Obama himself who has pointed to Jeremiah Wright as his spiritual mentor. Jeremiah Wright's "spirituality" is largely made up of a hard-left black racialism with only a very superficial patina of Christianity. This is problematic for Christians, non-blacks, and non-leftists in ways that Obama must address more fully and more seriously than he has heretofore done.

"Followers who don't largely agree with those they choose to follow or be mentored by (the task of a spiritual advisor) don't remain followers unless they have a screw or two loose, IMO."

Eric, would you honestly agree with everything that someone you consider a mentor (be it spiritual advisor, relative, friend, employer, etc.) happens to say? I love and respect my father, and I certainly would consider him a mentor that I still turn to for help and guidance, but I DO NOT agree with everything he says. You can't hang the words of someone's mentor directly on that person. If that were the case, you would have to assume that every Catholic (including myself) agrees with EVERYTHING that Pope Benedict says.

Smart-as-a-whip Samantha Power calls Senator Clinton "a monster," and Barack distances himself from her.

Dubious theologian "Reverend" Jeremiah Wright says what he says for years and years and years and years, and Barack stays in the pew at his church.

americanthinker.com/blog/2008/03/pastor_wright_and_barack_obama.html

Doug:

You fail to see the importance many of us see in Wright being not merely a mentor or an influence on Barack Obama, with whom he might disagree at times, but his SPIRITUAL ADVISOR/mentor and PASTOR for 2 decades. As I said, one who is in his right mind does not continue such an association or let someone continue to be one's spiritual advisor and pastor if one does not largely agree with such a person's spirituality and theology. I find your attempts to treat this just like any other relationship that has plusses and minuses, but is largely unimportant in terms of its effect on or meaning for Barack Obama, to be diversionary efforts, if intentional, or a failure between us to communicate, if unintentional.

"Could a white candidate expect to be president of the nation if they join the KKK and go to Klan rallies, and then say "Hey, I don't agree with everything they say. I just go to hear them talk about family values.""

Roger,

With all due respect, in the past, a white candidate very well could have done that.

It has been reported that President Warren G. Harding, President Woodrow Wilson, President McKinley, President Calvin Coolidge, and President Harry S. Truman have ALL been members of the Klan.

Simon,

Honestly, I got the information from the Internet, so I don't know how accurate my source may be (that is why I said, "it has been reported..."). With that said, the notion of it being true is not all that preposterous. The residue of these sympathies are still evident in American politics today. Just look at racial undertones felt in the aftermath of Katrina (is this a stretch? NO! There are a lot of people who still believe that "George Bush doesn't care about black people").

And as far as the views of presidents themselves, I find it interesting that people are so quick to attribute the views of Reverend Wright DIRECTLY to Senator Obama. If that's the case, remember that the senator is of mixed heritage. Remember as well that he was VERY close to his mother, who was White. Senator Obama has ALREADY said that he deplores divisive remarks.

If he were a radical that hates America, why would he go through all of this to become PRESIDENT of the United States of America? To think that he has some plan to overthrow the government is a bit far fetched, don't you think?

I'm white and did not take offense to this mans speech maybe because I know what he is taking about..I'm low income and my children are of mixed race. I have been called my names and never nice degraded because I love someone for who they were not what color. I have had jobs wanting to hire me then find out my children are mixed raced and with a black man all of sudden the job is no longer available. Housing denied for the same reasons!!Police pull my family over search our car like we are criminals, talk bad to my man and call him a N@@@@@ in front of our children, this really happens and way more than it should! We both work hard and pay taxes just as any American. My family turn their backs on me and call me a n@@@@@ lover. Jesus was tortured and backs were turned on him. The only people I think that honestly take this mans speech personally are those (white people)who are gulity of such things on the low and it has been spoken up on.......People of color and poor who have been surpressed and beaten into the ground like dogs for so long its our time to be on top....

Obama is not responsible for his Pastor, just like McCain is not responsible for John Hagee and Hillary is not responsible for ___________ (who's her pastor?). Anyway, it seems Americans would rather have an aethist or an adulterer for a President rather than a good family man who professes Christianity. So many of you Americans have been demonizing Muslims and have even tried to claim that Obama is one. Aren't Muslims and zealots like John Hagee and Rod Parsley (who has called for the destruction of Islam) part of American society? How come you all behave like this and still call yourselves the "free world"?

Obama's congregation is affiliated with the United Church of Christ. Their "theology" runs the gamut from A to Z. Social justice and peace issues are their main raison d'etre.

They are a body that in the last century merged with the New England Congregational and German Reformed traditions. Visit the UCC.org website. It might explain why Obama is comfortable in that particular body. "Orthodox" is not a term I would use to describe them and I doubt they would use it themselves (with the exception of a some congregations, but those who believe in historic, creedal Christianity have pretty much left)."

I can't take Obama's pastor seriously when he calls Jesus a "black" man oppressed by Italians.

Gimme a break.

"Maybe in the past a KKK member could have been elected president, but we are talking about TODAY."

Precisely Roger, and people still have very VALID reasons to believe that "George Bush doesn't care about Black people".

Roger,

George Bush has a lot to do with this election, as well as this conversation. It can be argued that he is largely responsible for perpetuating the conditions that would lead Reverend Wright, and a great deal of other Americans of all colors, to feel the way that he does.

I'd feel a bit more comfortable with it all if the good Rev. Wright would please remember that Obama's mother was Caucasian.

I don't care how Obama identifies himself. That's his business. But he carries his mother's gene pool, too.

When Hannity interviewed Wright, he asked him about the Black Value System which all members of Trinity must accept, including Obama. Wright responded by telling Hannity that he couldn't understand the BVS unless he'd read the writings of Dr. James Cone, whose works he said are fundamental to the beliefs and teachings at Trinity. Indeed, Trinity's website used to cite Cone's book, "A Black Theology of Liberation," as required reading for all members. Wright kept asking Hannity: "have you read it??? Have you read it?" Over and over. Clearly, Hannity had not.

Too bad. That interview would have gone much differently had he done his homework.

If you think Wright's words and ideas are racist and vile, wait until you read the book - the theology - upon which those ideas rest. READ CONE! It's proof that this isn't the "crazy uncle" but rather the very theology, the very POLITICS, upon which Obama's chosen church bases its teachings. According to Cone, the source of all evil in the world is "whiteness" and all traditional theology is just evil white supremicist theology meant to keep blacks enslaved. According to Cone, the very purpose of theology is to incite blacks to rise up in revolt against the evil white man, using - he says - whatever means necessary. Whites are satanic by definition and our church represents the anti-Christ. That's just for starters.

Read Cone and see the theology taught by the church to which Obama aligned himself as an adult and of which he's been a member for nearly 20 years.

People need to ask themelves what their opinion of Barack Obama
would be if his skin color and facial features were like his mother's.
Would the black part of him be important if it was ot visible? Would the fact that his father was Muslim be important if he looked white? Would his choice of church be important? Or would he be taken on face value on what he stands for? CHANGE.

Some people will go to any lengths to spred half truths to discredit a candidate running for pubic office. It goes back to the old adage, "Guilt by Association" that so many still believe is true.

Barack Obama has repeatedly told us that this election isn't about experience so much as judgment.

What kind of judgment is it, that subjects a man's children to this kind of poison? Perhaps he, himself, is immune; but this is the same kind of bitterness that seems to infect his wife -- and, if she didn't catch it from Jeremiah Wright, she sure isn't going to lose it sitting and listening to him once a week.

Good judgment would compel many men and women to leave this kind of atmosphere. How can Obama lead us out of hate and disunity, when he can't or won't even lead out his own family? Why did he hang around this hatemonger for so long, knowing what he is? Why?

Has Barack Obama been lying to us?

What a lot of people, even on the right, seem to be missing is that whatever Obama chooses to say or do regarding Wright at this point is irrelevant. Because whatever he does now will not show us what he really believes, but only what he finds politically expedient now that his underlying beliefs have been discovered. I think we all must realize that the only possible answer to Mike Frazier's question above
--Why did [Obama] hang around this hatemonger for so long, knowing what he is?--is that Obama shares Wright's hatred of white America. As many have pointed out, why else would you expose your children to such hogwash, unless you really believed it yourself? His actions for the last 20 years give the lie to any public repudiation of Wright that he may now find necessary to achieve his goal.

I bet all our enemies overseas are laughing and dancing in the streets. It is a disgrace to any christian to hear J. Wright speak. He uses God's name in vain to damn his own country, talks about America infecting the black people with AIDS, hates white people and uses the race card against the Clintons. To top if off dares to compare Barack to Jesus. Who in their sane mind would have him for a spiritual advisor? This is very scary.

I am grieved that such vitriol is being spewed in a pulpit---the place where people gather to gain instruction in God's Word and His ways. There is nothing Christlike about this.

There is a startling tendency amongst most European-Americans to gloss over, sweep under the rug, and erase the memory of our nation's history. As members of an oppressed culture, African-American ministries have often had to use powerful metaphors and language to empower their constituency. Although Pastor Wright's words appear hateful and divisive, he hails from a generation of African-Americans who has had to endure the painful legacy of one of the most evil institutions the world has ever known, chattel-slavery in America. We are all still to a large degree, deeply damaged by this history. I would urge all of you to dig deeper and research the origins of the concept of "race". In fact, "race" was invented by European "social scientists" to support the tenet of white supremacy and thereby rationalize widespread theft and enslavement of the Africans. This notion of "race" was also the spiritual underpinning of a movement that led to genocidal acts against the Native Americans. If we are going to discuss the Pastor's words, let's do it intelligently, and in a broader context. Let's not base our condemnation on a limited understanding of the African-American church and a few sound bites from a few sermons.

Any individual or group that has been oppressed is shackled by two sets of chains: Those chains placed on them by others and those chains they place on themselves. In order to be truly free, both sets of chains must be removed. Mr. Wright and other black leaders are rattling their own chains with such hateful speech.

Obama has been trying to trick the nation. Jeremiah Wright spoke many times with Obama in the congregation. Obama agrees.
The man is disgusting

The fruit of his mouth tells his heart.

As his first name suggests, Dr. Wright seems to be preaching a JEREMIAD, of sorts. Compare the harsh, hyperbole-filled figurations he levies against those in HIS country who, willfully bereft of history, continue to oppress poor whites and non-whites, women, etc. with the rhetoric of Old Testament prophets like Jeremiah, Samuel, Elijah, Daniel, Hosea, Isaiah, and NT John the Baptist.

Much of his rhetoric about 9-11, the AIDS conspiracy, and the infiltration of drugs into urban communities has already been proclaimed by American thinkers who span political, identity, and cultural categories. Are they all crack-pots?

As an African American Republican who sometimes feels myself "blackened" by the rhetoric of race-based supremacy and HYPER-capitalism, I wish that we can name those moments when ALL of us are unfairly racialized by apartheid practices and other forms of godliness that deny the power thereof. We can start by trying to first understand and perhaps even trust those traumas that are imposed on us by cultural practices predicated on the myth of race. This means naming the demons and getting to the heart of the hyper-classification movement of the Enlightenment's Carl Linnaeus, the "objective racism" of de Tocqueville and Hippolyte Taine, and (of course) the wrongheadedness of the Eugenics Movement, and strident, meaner elements of ethnocentrism--be it Afro or Euro.

And when "privileged" Americans of color such as Michelle and Barack and others decry the social injustices of OUR nation, they often (I assume) do so on behalf of those who are limited by race, gender, and class to show that the American Dream they now have was achieved not BECAUSE of their race, but IN SPITE of it. This is a trauma that whites must trust is true; for I think it leads to the beginning of naming and casting out the demons of division that continue to cripple our nation's great potential.

And if the kamikaze politics of the Clintons should wrench from McCain or Obama the presidency, then flee to the hills O Judea 'cause with slick Billy as first spouse, he'll have that White House looking like Ottawa of the 70s and early 80s. In fact, he'll be the Margaret Trudeau of a new millenial America. Are we ready for that?

Obama—Did he say enough?

A person is known by the company he keeps.

Political pundits are raving about Obama’s “brilliant” speech regarding his confrontation of Jeremiah Wrong’s incendiary speech.

On Friday, Mar 14, Obama denied EVER hearing his pastor make incendiary reports. Today, on Mar 18th, he admits that yes, he did hear his pastor make those same comments. Does he apologize lying to the American people earlier? No.

While I laud him to some extent on his inability to “throw away” his pastor now that he finds himself in the midst of this firestorm, insurmountable problems will still and ought to persist for him. He denounces his pastor’s comments, but continued to sit under him for 20 years. Is Obama schizophrenic? How can he have it both ways???

Obama tries to appeal to us by asking if we believe in everything our pastor says. If I heard vitriol like what Mr. Wrong spewed, I am sure that either my feet would have voted, or that my pastor would have been held accountable by his congregation as well as denomination, and he would have been removed. My pastor was, in fact, removed from his pulpit due to both his speech (but not from the pulpit) and objectionable actions.

Obama states that “words matter.” His words fall empty around his feet, as he failed to consider what his own words mean in light of his pastor’s venom. Obama is UNFIT to be president of this nation, as he has shown us a severe lack in judgment by choosing an Anti-American racist with whom to associate. With Mr. Wrong having an approval rating of 8%, this suggests to me that there is a 92% disapproval rating. I certainly would not want this man to be the “spiritual advisor” of any future president.

Another consideration is that I, and the average American citizen sitting in our pews are NOT running for President of the USA.

Another thing is that IF Mr. Wrong is right at all about this nation being the United States of white America, then he must recognize two things. First, he must have known that his statements would come back and bite him if “white” America heard them, and that he was foolishly playing with fire. Wrong’s racial epithets and vitriolic speech simply have NO place within public life. Secondly, he must have known how deeply offended the majority of the voting public in this nation would be. No candidate anywhere, anytime, can win an election when the majority of the voters perceive they have been attacked in the way Mr. Wrong attacked the people of this nation. Obama, as a politician, should also have recognized the potential firestorm that his pastor was creating because “words matter.”

You fooled me once, shame on you. You fooled me twice, shame on me. I pray that America will not be fooled twice.

Can you say reparations? Right On!

The internet using, right wing buffons who are all hepped up about what a black preacher says in a black church are a real hoot.

With all the problems we have in this country and elsewhere in the world and the mess Bush and his coherts have made of this country.. you people need to face what is important to the little people.

I live in Iowa and believe it or not I haven't spoken to any of these plain ole "folks" here who care one wit about the uproar that the people at Faux are trying to keep pushing with their ongoing loops of the good preacher Wright. They care more about their jobs, health care and their future.

So what if Wright has different views then most, he's not running for president. Obama is.. and come this November he's going to beat the ticket of McCain/Liberman running away.

Dee

I just read a book BLACK THEOLOGY AND BLACK POWER by JAMES CONE. This book represents the foundation beliefs for the Trinity church according to Rev. Wright. It was his inspiration. I got this off the church's website. I was astounded by the books contents. Jesus is black with thick lips and kinky hair. All other christian churches are the anti-christ. Christianity is black power because Jesus was opressed. Violence is encouraged because of black victimization. America has to be overthrown because it is run by whites who oppress blacks. I don't know what would take it's place. The book is nuts but it is the religion. Barack must believe this crap or he wouldn't keep going there. I like the guy and caucused for him but this whole thing has shocked me. Everyone should read this book. It is beyond belief. People are in denial on this thing. It is all out there and not hard to find.

As followers of Jesus Christ empowered by the Holy Spirit, true Christians say and pray “God Bless America,” and many are now saying and praying “God Please Help the US.”

However, the Holy Spirit of God would never inspire a true follower of Jesus Christ to say or pray “God Damn American” in any context, much less as part of a taped public sermon in front of children.

Holy Scriptures say to test the spirits (1 John 4:1). Reverend Wright obviously has a fiery spirit that is condemning at times, particuarly when he curses our nation in public sermons. It is certaintly not Christ-like or characteristic of the Holy Spirit.

Sentor Obama apparently does not say or pray “God Damn America,” but the crutial point is that most of his life has trusted and tollerated this particular pastor. Although Reverend Wright is retiring, he will remain as Senior Pastor, and his replacement essentially agrees with him in spirit and truth, and Senator Obama must agree with him in spirit.

There is reason to not trust the spirit in which Reverend Wright said the things he said, and so there is reason to question the spirit leading the youthfull Senator Obama as a professed Christian and prospective president of our nation. May God’s Holy Spirit be our guide.

Hope Page: http://itsallaboutjesusnotme.blogspot.com

“And the notion that somehow it’s cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have First Amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul-searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids,”

Didn't Jesus condemn the money-lenders in the temple? Anger is not racist, and in this case is appropriate.

Unfortunately, only we Whites can make waves about this government or it's people. We have White preachers who have the president's ear, who preach for the destruction of other leaders of other countries. Do we feel aggrieved because of it? We have White preachers who say that we should bomb and destroy the CIA. Does our blood pressure rise? Do we talk for days and days on end about it? We have White preachers who talk racial dirty talk when speaking of Jews. We say that we worship and honor a God and His Son who settled for Jewish people as a beacon of hope. Yet we disparage them everyday.

It's simple: Whites have the right to disparage anyone and anything that they see fit. While Blacks, Browns and other have no rights that the White man is bound to respect.

The problem isn't Obama. It never was. Yes, you can point to the color of his skin and his ancestry. But, so what? How does that threaten you?

Why does it "shock" you that a Black man has fighting words for the shoddy treatment of citizens by this country?

How come that is out of bounds when an "undesirable" speaks it?

Yes, we are still all bigots. Just bigots with newer and cooler toys.

I am not from the U.S. but having gone through the educational system in the UK we tend to look at things a lot differently from most Americans. I have tried to gain a perspective on the Jeremiah Wright situation and came across these posts http://dymaxionq.wordpress.com/2008/06/06/reframing-african-slave-insolence-jeremiah-wright-us-presidential-politics-and-the-legacy-of-race-in-america/,http://dymaxionq.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/martin-luther-king-jr-and-jeremiah-wright-clergymen-speaking-truth-to-power/ on the blogosphere that seem to contextualize the entire row about Obama and Wright from a historical perspective.

As I said, I am not from the U.S. but we Europeans have a different perspective that goes beyond sound bite news.