Crunchy Con

Eating like an American

Sunday March 9, 2008

Categories: Food
According to a front-page report in the NYT this morning, the world's farmers have the pedal to the combine metal, yet can't keep up with the demand. Excerpt: The world’s grain stockpiles have fallen to the lowest levels in decades....
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Comments
Clare Krishan
March 9, 2008 11:59 AM

Do not despair - not only did the New World add the famous chillipepper-Zing to Asian food, China's and Korea's population swelled after their poor share croppers began planting and eating imported sweet potatoes, becoming healthy and fertile again. The issue isn't food, its water. The foods we enjoy in our refined diets need irrigation from aquifiers that once they turn saline are lost to humanity... see the Aral See that dried up from the thirsty new-improved American genus that the apparel industry preferred over the native Indian cotton plants.

Then factor in climate change (not who changes it__God knows__but what do we do when it will inevitably change, as it has in history and will again in the future) Americans need not feel obliged to feed the world, but rather like the Norwegians and their permafrost-seed-bank, Americans should capture the great biodiversity that this continent offers the world... and transfer knowledge from the Xera-scaping expertize (aesthetics of arid landscapes, for casinos etc in Nevada) to the agriculture arena.

Elizabeth Anne
March 9, 2008 11:59 AM

And to what extent do we have to admit that we're reaching an unsustainable population? It's a bit startling to NOT see that even on your list, Rod. I'm not for population control, but you know that others will be. How do you respond in the face of growing food and water shortages?

rebeccat
March 9, 2008 12:18 PM

I agree with Clare - it's not food. It's water. I think that making desalination of sea water workable will be the major, life saving project of the 21st century.

And to be perfectly honest, I find this argument that there's something inherently wrong with "eating like an American" a bit tiring. Why is wheat worse than rice? If wheat were simply worse than rice from an agricultural perspective, then why did Europeans become dependent on it to begin with? Would we be better off if Americans became dependant on casava instead of wheat as their main source of starch? The problem isn't wheat or pork or corn. The problem is when we go to extreme lengths to produce foods, or as Clare points out particular cultivars, in ecosystems which they are not suited to. So the problme isn't eating like an American per se. It's eating unlike what your ecosystem can reasonably support.

As far as putting more land into production, this would simply be a reversal of a trend to take farm land out of production which has been a dominant force in agriculture for about 30 years. The land is there, both here and around the world, to grow the food needed to support ourselves. The problem is water and getting some of these corrupt, dysfunctional governments out of the way. (Zimbabwe anyone?)

Maybe I'm overly influenced by living somewhere where real farming - both the industrial and the small scale kind - actually takes place and being able to look out my window at hundreds of empty acres of former farm land which are now just scrub, but I think this discussion is being framed completely the wrong way.

rebeccat
March 9, 2008 12:21 PM

One last thing. I know that biofuels are skewing the food market right now - primarily because of ridiculous and citizen betraying subsidies for wasteful ethanol fuel production. However, odds are very good that this is temporary. Brazil invested in biofuels using sugar 30 years ago, but we haven't heard anything about Brazilians starving or not having enough food to export!

Again, this seems like alarmism pointing in utterly the wrong direction.

ann
March 9, 2008 12:38 PM

I really hate to see Mr. Dreher fall back on Kant. That principle, carried logically through will be unworkable.

stefanie
March 9, 2008 1:40 PM

Rod, I'm surprised you didn't highlight these sections from the article:

“The moment you develop a taste, you are hooked,” said a confident Muyiwa Talabi, director of an American wheat-marketing office in Lagos.

Mr. Ojuku, the man who buys fewer loaves, and one of his fellow tailors in Lagos, Mukala Sule, 39, are trying to adjust to the new era.

“I must eat bread and tea in the morning. Otherwise, I can’t be happy,” Mr. Sule said as he sat on a bench at a roadside cafe a few weeks ago. For a breakfast that includes a small loaf, he pays about $1 a day, twice what the traditional eba would have cost him.

My guess is that these Nigerians aren't eating 5 gm/slice of fiber, 100% whole wheat bread, but instead are eating some sugar-rich concoction that literally sounds like an addictive "drug." The traditional dumpling probably has far less sugar.

This is a highly disturbing article. In some ways there's nothing wrong with "Third World diets" *if* they are traditional, and people get enough to eat. Most people's traditional diets "evolved" over thousands of years. Take for instance the Hawaiian diet of poi, taro, fish, and fresh vegetables. There are clinics in Hawaii that treat diabetes patients (who eat white bread, spam, hot dogs, etc.) by helping them plant gardens for taro, and construct traditional fish ponds. Pima Indians in SW California who ate traditional diets of corn, pine nuts, and game didn't get overwhelmed with obesity and diabetes as their descendants have.

Decades ago I was ranting about the conversion of land from agriculture to suburbs. Maybe that's the place to start - if land is agricultural, keep it that way. Look at the bright side - it would cause housing prices to go up. Then maybe we could even get some electrically-based mass transit (fueled not by ethanol but by nuclear power.)

Karen
March 9, 2008 1:40 PM

I think that the problem with wheat over rice isn't superiority. Its that its an imported product over a native one. One that doesn't grow where they are without significant increased cost. Only, not for a luxury good, but a staple.

Irenaeus
March 9, 2008 1:42 PM

I echo Rebeccat and Ann. Ethanol and Kant are a match made in hell.:)

Rod Dreher
March 9, 2008 1:48 PM

Stefanie: In some ways there's nothing wrong with "Third World diets" *if* they are traditional, and people get enough to eat. Most people's traditional diets "evolved" over thousands of years. Take for instance the Hawaiian diet of poi, taro, fish, and fresh vegetables. There are clinics in Hawaii that treat diabetes patients (who eat white bread, spam, hot dogs, etc.) by helping them plant gardens for taro, and construct traditional fish ponds. Pima Indians in SW California who ate traditional diets of corn, pine nuts, and game didn't get overwhelmed with obesity and diabetes as their descendants have.

That's precisely the point Pollan makes in "In Defense of Food." He cites multiple studies and investigations that found primitive ("primitive") peoples around the world can thrive on diets that are rather narrow by contemporary American standards, but which are *not Western.* As soon as these people start eating like Americans, they develop obesity, diabetes, and all the stuff that afflicts us. It's really amazing.

Steve
March 9, 2008 3:09 PM

Am I my brother's keeper? Inasmuch as colonialism, imperialism and Cold War policies have played some part in hurting other countries ability to flourish we (the Europeans maybe even more) bear some responsibility. I think at this point most of those other countries also bear major blame for their corruption and inability to rule themselves well (nice article in The Economist on India this week btw).

Americans shouldnt eat like Americans when it comes to our overconsumption and heavily processed foods. Its certainly not surprising that other people would have our problems if they eat they way we do. I suspect this may also be a total lifestyle issue and not just diet btw.

Something I dont know and maybe someone here does is whether it is agriculturally feasible to feed growing populations in third world countries on traditional crops. It may not be possible to produce enough calories for growing populations with anything other than the major grain crops.

I think there is a pretty good chance that we will quickly give up on the corn for biodiesel mistake. This has probably persisted for so long because of the "corn politics" Pollan writes about. There are some grasses which provide more energy than they take to produce and may be viable alternatives.

Steve

mik_infidelos
March 9, 2008 3:23 PM

Fake crisis, stupid, counter-productive solutions.

If "American-style" foodstuffs become too expensive, the thirldworlders will reduce their consumption of them.

What is the problem? Free Market suddenly stopped working?

Besides this manufactured crisis may even do some good by helping to kill corn-based-ethanol-fuel extortion.

mik_infidelos
March 9, 2008 3:29 PM


To what extent do Americans have an ethical responsibility to feed the planet?

Let me help you Mr. Dreher.

You want to feed the planet?
Go ahead, be my guest.

Keep subsidizing corrupt goverments that rob their own farmers.

But please, do it on your own dime.

Charity at the point of IRS gun is not a charity but robbery.

All of you do-gooders can live allright on 20-30% of your income. Why not donate the rest to a charity of your choice?
Why force unwilling taxpayer to support you goofy causes?

Rich
March 9, 2008 4:39 PM

Rod
As to Pollan's point about new chronic diseases showing up in traditional cultures, you should really read Gary Taubes book "Good Calories, Bad Calories". It's a look at the history of human nutritional science over the last century. Some of his stories about what happened to native populations when they moved from traditional diets to our modern highly processed carb-heavy junk food diets are stunning and infuriating. Probably the most enlightening science book I've read in the last decade.

Anonymous
March 9, 2008 5:32 PM

To concur. New research is being done Re: the Asian American population in Boston, their Americanized diet and skyrocketing rates of Diabetes. Very interesting results.

Marian Neudel
March 9, 2008 5:47 PM

My own apocalyptic vision is that the US is turning into a 3rd World country, and the appropriate response to the current economic mess is that we should all learn to like rice and beans and cook them in interesting ways, while we still have a choice in the matter. And so, of course, should everybody else.

ande
March 9, 2008 6:36 PM

"We haven't heard about the Brazilians starving" "Americans need not feel obliged about feeding the world" Pitiful. I have lived and or traveled to Honduras, Guatemala, Ecuador, and most recently, Ethiopia over the years. I have witnessed the "ugly American" many times over. You can pick them out, even in a crowd of White tourists. Typically over weight, humongous camera slung over their shoulders,... The reality is that we consume 25 percent of the world's energy, and I believe 30 percent of the food in energy, while being just 4 percent of the population.

Mike Huckaby was right about several things. One is that we don't have a health care crisis. We have a health crisis. And much of it has to do with out gluttonous diets. The world cannot emulate US. I agree with the above blog that should learn to like rice and beans, etc. We also should support local farmers and markets. And we should support the orgs. such as Bread For the World, World Relief, World Vision, and the myriad of others helping to feed the poor. The cynical corruption excuses are just a cop-out. Let's stop our slovenly ways and start living how Jesus would want us to live, caring more for others than ourselves.

MI
March 9, 2008 6:44 PM

Random thoughts:

1. When one tries to fuel our economy by "burning food" (i.e., biofuels), of course you end up with rising food prices. Supply & demand; if the latter rises, so also will price while the former catches up. Granted, demand for US biofuels is partly inflated by government subsidies & mandates, where the solution is obvious. A more interesting public policy question: what happens when the price of oil, etc., rises to such high levels that biofuel production becomes economically feasible even _without_ any government interference?

Note that, even when using dedicated energy crops with higher fuel-per-acre production (e.g., oil palms sugar beets), at some point you’ll still be competing with food crops for scarce land, which is basically the same thing as “burning food”.

2. Withholding exports: Americans are sufficiently Jacksonian (i.e., nationalistic, unilateralist, xenophobic) that even fiscally-trivial amounts of foreign aid & UN dues are perpetually controversial. If they see export-driven increases in domestic food prices eroding their standard of living, they'll _demand_ the imposition of application of the Export Administration Act (*) to foodstuffs. Ethical or not, political realities make this a likely outcome. “Civilizations have the morality & ethics that they can afford”, most people will say; in a world of food scarcity, they’ll rationalize that charity for foreigners is something we simply cannot afford.

OTOH, if third-worlders’ purchasing power gives out before Americans’ willingness to endure export-induced food-price increases, the need/desire for export controls might be obviated by famine & starvation.

3. IIRC, most of the Persian Gulf’s oil exporters depend on food imports. We have food, they have oil. Oil-for-food redux, anyone? (Personally I’d prefer energy independence, and let they drink their oil, but others might differently....)

4. What happens to our immigration flows (not to mention our foreign policy) when export controls impose famine on people South of the Border, and the latter see Americans living fat & happy on agricultural surpluses? I foresee “interesting times”.


(*) See 50 USC app. 2401 et seq, and particularly sec. 2402(2)(C) and 2405.

Rich
March 9, 2008 6:58 PM

mik_infidelos
Darn straight. I've never understood using government to fund charitable causes as a Christian act. It requires no sacrifice of yourself but allows you to strike a public pose as a "good person". It's really no different in essence than the Pharisees of whom Jesus said "all their works they do to be seen by men".

If you really think you have a moral responsibility to feed the hungry, then go feed someone who is hungry! And if you really are doing it to improve the world rather than boost your own ego, then keep your mouth shut about it. Don't pray on the street corners to show how good you are - pray in a secret place that only the Father sees.

Steve
March 9, 2008 7:48 PM

Feeding the world on a long term basis is not possible by the US. Helping other countries develop the means to feed themselves would be a relatively cheap investment compared with any of our wars. It has the potential for improved trade and security. An economically secure, well fed people makes a more difficult target for Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

We dont really have a free market in agriculture. Europe and the US both subsidize agriculture.

Sheilagh
March 9, 2008 8:09 PM

Rod;
I'm getting the feeling we're going to be focusing on 'Food Topics' til this fast sinks in - Not that they're not worthy topics. But, Am I right? :0)

[We've got to find you some 'believable' meat alternatives. To get you past all this. I'll see what I can dig up.]

Pax

Rod Dreher
March 9, 2008 8:32 PM

I've read that under NAFTA, small Mexican farmers were put out of business, with the result that Mexico is now flooded with cheaper US grain imports. Is this true? Can somebody point me to a source of information that could verify (or debunk) it?

stefanie
March 9, 2008 9:32 PM

I'm not convinced that even Americans should eat "like Americans."

The problem with "rice and beans" is that a lot of people of Northern European ancestry simply don't do well with a lot of carbohydrates, even "whole" ones like brown rice and beans. This is all highly individual, of course, but some people put on weight basically if they eat anything except meat, dairy, and vegetables.

I don't have any opinion about the Orthodox fast, save to remark that some people physically are really better adapted to a hunter/gatherer or pastoral diet (wild meat, goat, sheep, milk, cheese, yogurt), and these people are going to find a vegan diet rough going. I can't remember if it was in Michael Pollan's "In Defense of Food," where he remarked that people could live well on 15 gm of protein per day, and I went, "What?!?" That's definitely not true for a lot of people, including many children and pregnant women.

Erich Schwarz
March 9, 2008 9:45 PM

To what extent are global food prices being skewed by:

subsidies for corn to be expensively made into fuel ethanol?

subsidies for First World farmers in the U.S. and E.U. which make it economically impossible for Third World farmers to stay in business?

bans on developing nuclear power, which would allow us to expand our food productivity substantially through desalization and irrigation?

bans on the U.S. exporting genetically engineered crops to the E.U., and thus, through collateral legal damage, to Africa even during an African famine?

civil wars in a variety of Third World nations that disrupt such agricultural productivity as they already have?

Tell me all that, and I'll tell you what I think of the proposition that we're all about to starve unless we Americans all start eating like medieval peasants again. Until I'm told that, I'm going to keep my (cynical) opinion to myself.

aaron
March 9, 2008 9:51 PM

Eating like an American, how about drinking water like one :

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080309/ap_on_re_us/pharmawater_i

MI
March 9, 2008 10:49 PM

I've read that under NAFTA, small Mexican farmers were put out of business, with the result that Mexico is now flooded with cheaper US grain imports. Is this true?

Yes, apparently:

From www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_51/b3863008.htm

...the agriculture sector is still reeling from the competitive shock of NAFTA. One consequence was the virtual wipeout of Mexico's small farmers by a flood of subsidized U.S. food imports. Some 1.3 million farm jobs have disappeared since 1993, according to a new report by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, a Washington think tank. [snip]

"Nor was the U.S. As the campesinos lost their livelihood, they headed to the border. By most estimates, the number of Mexicans working illegally in the U.S. more than doubled, to 4.8 million between 1990 and 2000." [snip]

Note the second paragraph; granted correlation doesn't prove causation, but it's still an interesting coincidence....

The following two are from NAFTA supporters:

From: econ161.berkeley.edu/movable_type/archives/001178.html

It is the high cost of Mexican farming that makes it so uncompetitive. [...] [L]ocal farmers are still going out of business because their costs—from diesel to electricity to credit—are about a third higher than those north of the border. [...] [I]t costs about three times as much to deliver corn by rail from Sinaloa to Mexico city as it does to ship it there from New Orleans via Veracruz.

From: www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2003/12/10th_anniversar.html

many Mexican farmers are upset at competition from American pork and corn. Most of these farmers are not mechanized in any way. They push a plow through their fields with a burro or ox. [...] [M]any of these farmers don't even use techniques from the horse and buggy age.

Keep in mind that free trade in food will be a windfall for Mexico's urban poor. Furthermore many indigenous farmers grow food for their own consumption, not for sale to outside markets. Cheap American imports can't make them worse off, since they can always continue their current time allocation if they wish. More likely, they will start buying more cheap foodstuffs and look for a different line of work.

I'm no fan of free trade - I'd like to replace US farm subsidies with agriculture tariffs - but his last paragraph is worth considering.

Eric W
March 9, 2008 10:53 PM

Forgiveness Vespers comments don't work.

Peter
March 9, 2008 11:26 PM

I see some people have beat me to it, but I guess I'll just add my voice on this issue:

"To what extent have free trade agreements and the US government's promotion of grain exports and American agribusiness hamstrung the abilities of peoples of other nations to feed themselves?"

Sorry, it isn't free trade. The question should be:

"to what extent have our massive agricultural subsidies priced third-world farmers out of the market and made it much more unlikely that their ag products can compete with Western ag products?"

I know this isn't a free-market blog, but if we are suddenly going to be concerned about the well-being of the developing world, it is beyond question that a freer market at least in agriculture would be a huge benefit to the developing world both in terms of availability of food and increased income from farming.

evergreen
March 10, 2008 2:06 AM

The primary cause of increased prices for food is world economic growth and the buying power (demand) that follows. The US has been producing record crops each year for awhile now, but useage has finally overtaken production, causing price spikes. These same forces are also impacting other commodities, including oil and metals.

Of course there are additional factors, including ethanol and other biofuels. If ethanol subsidies have caused grain and food prices to rise, did they make the price of copper go up, too?

Clare Krishan
March 10, 2008 8:51 AM

RE: “The moment you develop a taste, you are hooked,” said a confident Muyiwa Talabi, director of an American wheat-marketing office in Lagos.

I could say the same about teff, the hi-protein grain used in Abyssinian cooking, see

www_ethiopianrestaurant_com/injera.html and www.ashdenawards.org/winners/ertc#

or chalbap, the Korean sticky rice which does not need paddies to be submerged

www_koamart_com/shop/15-rice_grains.asp

(saving water) and can be grown in smaller plots in more marginal areas and cooks rapidly over steam saving water, spaghetti-noodles 8:1, Basmati is 2:1 ratio, Chapsal just 1:1. (and both low in gluten and better for those of us with wheat allergies). Since they're not made by Uncle Ben's they're hard to find at your local store, but they don't cost more. If agriculture were truely free trade this wouldn't be the case. The reason you don't see more variety on our shelves is because we're chauvinists, and I think Rod would agree, just because you want to shop local doesn't mean that the local farmer can't be growing pearl rice instead of long grain, or teff instead of wheat, right?

My point is that the disease resistant higher-protein rice that is grown by, and feeds, most Indians wasn't developed in India, but in the US. We do have God-given talents and the Gospel proverbially tells us not to chauvinsitically speaking "bury them" but go off and try out something new and multiple those talents, for which we will be rewarded with an unmatched international reputation, that would be hard to beat.

Doha demands that our tariffs must go but not that our brains atrophy!

Clare Krishan
March 10, 2008 8:52 AM

And finally will all y'all please cease and desist with those chauvinist myths about overpopulation - many of Africa's problems today stem from UNDERpopulation - not enough brawny men to build the 8-lane highways they need to get the seeds and fertilizers into to the farms and then their harvest back to market...
excerpted from

Jim Peron "Population Politics and the Shambles of Africa"

Lord Bauer, in The Development Frontier, suggests that the lack of people in Africa may be the cause of some of the problems:

[___population growth can have favourable external effects. It can facilitate the more effective division of labour and thereby increase real incomes. In fact, in much of Southeast Asia, Africa, and Latin America, sparseness of population inhibits economic advance. It ___retards___ the development of transport facilities and communications, and thus ___inhibits___ the movement of people and goods and the spread of new ideas and methods. These ___obstacles___ to enterprise and economic advance are particularly difficult to overcome.___]

at www.catholiceducation.org/articles/population/pc0005.html

Clare Krishan
March 10, 2008 9:10 AM

Heck even a few more miles of single-lane byways for motorcycle ambulances would do a lot to improve African maternal mortality rates...

www.infoforhealth.org/inforeports/fistula/fistulaprint.html
www.transaid.org/press-centre/motorcycle-ambulance-project-gets-off-the-ground-with-man-erf---4-july-06

a shocking attrition of promising young lives, while we salve our consciences with contraceptive mantras... "She wouldn't have died if she'd had access to reproductive choices" What if its her and her baby-daddy's choice want a big brood to help run their family farm so they, and not our taxes via USAID, feed their neighbors?

John E.
March 10, 2008 10:13 AM

Anybody else planting a garden this year?

Connie
March 10, 2008 10:41 AM

Sheilagh--Rod doesn't need "meat-like" alternatives. There's grains and beans (including edamame [soybeans in their natural state]), which are highly superior to tortured products such as seitan, tofurky, and not-dogs. I figure if you're not going to eat meat, why eat things that emulate meat? And he keeps calling this a vegan time, but it sounds like eggs are still allowed?

Tying this thread to the one about why do people read and comment if they disagree with most things Rod says--I read this blog for the food posts (and to point out some of Rod's and commentor's worst errors).

Peter
March 10, 2008 10:46 AM

Most of the USAID budget goes to the middle east (Iraq and Israel) not feeding farmers in Africa.

MI
March 10, 2008 11:00 AM

Brazil invested in biofuels using sugar 30 years ago, but we haven't heard anything about Brazilians starving or not having enough food to export!

This is partly because Brazil uses far less energy (per-capita) than the US does, and partly because Brazil's energy crop (i.e., sugarcane) produces far more gallons-per-acre than the corn we're currently burning. Even if Brazilians consumed gasoline on the same scale as the US currently does, they probably wouldn't be starving...but they probably _would_ be clear-cutting Amazonia at an even faster rate.

As for the US...corn ethanol's productivity is sufficiently low that even replacing US gasoline consumption with corn ethanol would require ~500e6 acres (*). Note that USDA's 2002 Census of Agriculture put total US cropland & harvested acreage at 434e6 & 308e6 acres, respectively.


(*) This source (www.earth-policy.org/Books/PB2/PB2ch2_ss5.htm) puts corn ethanol at 354 gal/acre. With 1 ton/acre of corn stover (**), and using Syntec biomass gasification, we get another 105 gal/acre. US gasoline consumption is ~140e9 gal/yr. Derivation is left as an exercise for the reader.

(**) US produces 75e6 tons corn stover annually (feedstockreview.ornl.gov/pdf/billion_ton_vision.pdf) on ~75e6 acres of corn.

aaron
March 10, 2008 11:16 AM

Anybody else planting a garden this year?

Yes, it doubled in size over last years. Shooting for veggie-fruit self-sufficiency.

Christine
March 10, 2008 3:48 PM

That's precisely the point Pollan makes in "In Defense of Food." He cites multiple studies and investigations that found primitive ("primitive") peoples around the world can thrive on diets that are rather narrow by contemporary American standards, but which are *not Western.* As soon as these people start eating like Americans, they develop obesity, diabetes, and all the stuff that afflicts us. It's really amazing.

Exactly. The problem right now is that because of political corruption, war and other factors a lot of people aren't getting ENOUGH food.

I was really amused by a co-worker of mine (I'm not being uncharitable in stating that she was a big fan of the typical western diet, high on fat and protein and low on vitamin rich fruits, grains and vegetables, resulting in her developing adult onset diabetes) looking at my lunch of meatless chili, whole grain bread and fruit and stating "You eat like a poor person!"

Sheilagh
March 10, 2008 4:05 PM

Connie;

No disrespect intended. Completely lighthearted. I agree about the tofu dogs.
I was just thinking about a spaghetti and 'meatballs' recipe that was actually falafel (I think) that my husband had eaten at a vegetarian restaurant and really enjoyed. (He didn't realize it until I'd told him later that night that it was Vegan.)

Sometimes Lent (at least for me) is about finding a few things to make it workable. Not saying I head out for Lobster on Fridays but having some options when you need them is good too. Especially when you're the only one on the fast.

Can't find the recipe BTW so I guess any falafel fried in OO will work. Another good recipe from my Lebanese cookbook is Lenten Stuffing (Hashwi Bedoun Laham). It's used in stuffed tomatoes, stuffed squash, stuffed peppers, stuffed grapeleaves, you get the idea.

[When I went to the web for a recipe link I was directed here. http://www.stgeorgepantry.org/ricenbulgar.html There's also a multitude of veg. recipes at this site. - If this is your church Rod, it truly IS a small world. And you're all set.]

Wishing you a Blessed Lent. Pax.

Sheilagh
March 10, 2008 4:06 PM

- Although there's *nothing* wrong with lobster on Fridays.

Christine
March 10, 2008 4:59 PM

This question is not meant disrespectfully at all, I'm really curious but I've always wondered -- how is eating Lobster (which is generally more expensive than meat, at least ground beef, etc.) a "sacrifice" ??

I don't eat Lobster, so I'm just askin'

ande
March 10, 2008 5:07 PM

I grew up in a family that had large gardens. We produced much of our own food. My grandparents' nearby farm provided additional food. I can't help but grow a little of my own food, and we live in Madison, WI, perhaps the local market capital of the US.

Also, a question: How many people thank the living God for us having the most productive farmland in the entire world? And how long can our current consumptive style support us the way that we're used to?

Sheilagh
March 10, 2008 5:26 PM

Christine;

You're right. Lobster's not at all a sacrifice. But it does technically fall under the rules of the Friday fasts from meat, so it is done.

This time of year, up here in New England, there's not usually much lobster to speak of. So you'll settle for a Lobster pie - not the same thing.

I think the point is that the whole idea of sacrifice is lost and it becomes more adherence to the Letter of the law than the Spirit of the Law.

Karen
March 10, 2008 6:05 PM

Well, when the rules were made, meat was rare and expensive treat, and fish and seafood was something anyone could get with a net, or hook and line. Heck, lobster was poor man's food during the colonial period.

But, as times change, what is and is not a sacrifice might as well.

Lobster over hamburger is not (except financially) much of a sacrifice.

stefanie
March 11, 2008 12:28 AM

Fish is now a luxury item. Seems that the rules of non-Orthodox fasting should reverse themselves; allow meat, no fish though - not when it's 5X the cost of meat.

Christine
March 11, 2008 10:38 AM

The problem with "rice and beans" is that a lot of people of Northern European ancestry simply don't do well with a lot of carbohydrates, even "whole" ones like brown rice and beans. This is all highly individual, of course, but some people put on weight basically if they eat anything except meat, dairy, and vegetables.

That's an interesting observation, Stefanie. I am German on both sides of my family. Meat and dairy were in plentiful supply (and my mom, bless her, is a wonderful cook!) but now that I am living a lifestyle centered around beans, legumes, whole grains, fruits, veggies, etc. I've found I'm actually having an easier time staving off age-related weight gain (I'm 58). I think the defining factor is that unlike my lazier, younger years I exercise and bike ride regularly and that seems to be making the difference.

Also, it seems to me that all of our diets were adapted over many millenia. Even the ancient hunter-gatherers of Europe lived without dairy products before the domestication of cattle. It's one of the great advantages of being an omnivore. We can survive on just about anything, unlike the strict carnivores who must have flesh to survive.

And you are certainly correct that fish is actually becoming a luxury food. There are alarming reports coming out about how are oceans and lakes are being depleted due to overfishing and "modern" methods of fishing.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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