Crunchy Con

Should Silda stay or should she go?

Wednesday March 12, 2008

Categories: Family
Should Silda Spitzer have come out to stand by her creepy husband Eliot as he confessed to hiring hookers? Should she give him the boot now? Several things: 1. I don't think we should judge her for standing by him...
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Comments
M.Z. Forrest
March 12, 2008 9:25 AM

I don't know how to put this without appearing condescending, so I request a little indulgence. Is what his wife chooses to do any of your business? I can appreciate the attempt at empathy, but I don't think this is what is actually being done.

Florence
March 12, 2008 9:28 AM

One reason in the Kick-Him-Out corner: Sexually Transmitted Diseases.

Rod Dreher
March 12, 2008 9:31 AM

MZF, it's what people are talking about. Doesn't make it any of our business, but come on, it's on people's minds, and it's become a topic of conversation. So I bring it up here. This is a site where we talk about culture. Just like the Bar Mitzvah Boy thread wasn't really about that particular kid, this is not really about Silda Spitzer, but rather what should any spouse put in her position do with regard to the future of her (or his) marriage and family. We cite a particular to discuss a universal.

harvey lacey
March 12, 2008 9:46 AM

Florence has a good point.

I have to believe she'll stay and the pattern will repeat itself. This is because I see him as the egotist who believes it's all about him. Those kind of men don't usually marry unless it's to one of their biggest fans.

I'll also bet the page against the period that he's sorry he got caught and not sorry he used prostitutes.

Franklin Evans
March 12, 2008 9:47 AM

Not meaning to offer "credentials" or anything like that, but disclosing that my parents divorced when I was 13 -- and the emotional atmosphere could be cut with a feather -- may help show my motivations here.

A woman has a choice. She didn't always have that choice. The controlling factor is completely outside her ability to influence it: what will everyone else say.

The average Jane in an average family, with an average household income, average number of children, average amount of debt, will not be the subject of national (or statewide) debate when her husband is indicted for buying sex. Her choice was and is constrained by several factors: the disapprobation of her community (Catholics should sympathize with that part), her ability to maintain a household and all the financial issues thereof, and the prospects of her re-entering the social scene (a woman does not live by raising kids alone, as it were).

Change all that to a prominent man, as with the Spitzers, and it all changes on that one, single factor: what will the rest of the world think and say.

MZ, I respectfully suggest that you are asking the wrong question. It's not that it should be anyone else's business; it's that we live in a culture where everyone just automatically makes it their business, and then wonders about the woman's feelings.

Once, just once, I'd like to see such a thing happen to a celebrity (in any path of life) where the media en masse just decides to leave her alone.

It's not her moral choice that should be discussed here. It's the immoral choice of everyone else to shine a light on a traffic accident and slow down to gawk at the twisted metal and bleeding flesh. You want to make a moral choice (extending my metaphor)? Take all your friends who drive dangerously aside (and chances are excellent that everyone reading this knows at least one such person) and do the loving thing: tell that person that you will not get in a car they are driving, nor will you show up at their hospital or funeral should they be in an accident, unless they make the strongest and most sincere oath they can to stop driving like that.

As for Silda Spitzer: unless you are her personal friend and you are there with her, drive on and don't look back.

Hilda
March 12, 2008 9:51 AM

Several years ago, I wrestled with the question of whether to end a very unhappy, although not unbearable, marriage to my children's father (deception, disappointment, and broken promises were involved--although not in the area of sexual fidelity). I stayed and for a long time afterward not a day went by that I didn't wondered whether the decision had been the right one.

Then, about five years later, my husband's job took him away from home for a few months. During that time I was healthier, happier, and more productive than I'd been in ages--but my kids were falling apart in odd ways I could never have predicted. Bottom line: staying for the sake of the kids was the right choice and I haven't lost sleep over it since.

But everyone's situation is different. For example, one of my kids was a young boy, Silda Wall Spitzer's are teen-age girls.

Mark
March 12, 2008 9:53 AM

I'm with you Rod. Being a child of divorce, I think all possible measures should be taken to preserve the family. In this particular scenario, though, I can't help but think that teenaged girls (or boys) would best be served by not having a pervert around forming them during the time of their lives when they are learning about relationships, sexuality, and the like.

harvey lacey
March 12, 2008 9:55 AM

this is not really about Silda Spitzer, but rather what should any spouse put in her position do with regard to the future of her (or his) marriage and family. We cite a particular to discuss a universal.
Posted by: Rod Dreher

Ahhh, this is what I like about reason over faith.

You see I believe that we need to be taught one of the facts that is in our genes. It's a universal truth if there ever was one. We fall in and out of love our whole lives. We need to accept that as an integral part of being a person.

Now comes the reason part. We need to teach the advantages of doing what's natural, falling in and out of love, in a reasonable way. That is we work really hard to do it with the same person. The biggest reason we do that is because each time we fall out we'll not fall quite so far. And when we fall in we fall a little deeper.

It's not unlike jumping into the surf and swimming out past the breakwater. The farther we get from shore the less rough the seas.

Daniel
March 12, 2008 10:06 AM

These kids don't have a normal life, and never will. Their lives have already been altered by the public acknowledgment that their father hired a high-class hooker on Valentines Day. It's one thing to say stay married for the kids because we can put on a strong face and never let them know how much you betrayed me. It's another thing when dad has held a press conference and all your friends, their parents, your teachers, and the Internet will be able to remind you that your parent's marriage is broken.

There's nothing magical about raising kids in marriage, from the sense that merely being married saves your kids the horrors of divorce. Kids are harmed by divorce, but they are also harmed by being raised in high conflict marriages. I'd say having mom and day hold a press conference about dad's high class hooker demonstrates high conflict.

sigaliris
March 12, 2008 10:13 AM

Hear, hear, Franklin. Speculations on what persons in the news "should" do are never based on anything more than unfounded assumptions, and matters of the heart and character are so complex that such assumptions by ignorant gawkers are bound to be wrong in some important respect.

Speaking in general, however, based on a lifetime of observation and experience, when a person in a relationship with you--be that friendship, marriage, family, or whatever--does anything, it is always about them. It's not about you. When a married man has extramarital sex, it's not about his wife, it's about him. She did not cause it, could not have prevented it, is not responsible for it. He is motivated by his own emotions and assumptions. If he wants to change the situation, he has to look at himself and take responsibility for what he finds there. If he doesn't want to do that, then nothing will change.

I'm disturbed by Rod's seeming equation of his wife's theoretical affair with another man to Spitzer's use of prostituted women. As unfortunate as an affair might be, it is a relationship with another human being. It usually involves love, or at least what the participants believe to be love. Certainly it involves affection, and some sense of awareness and caring about the other person. Using prostitutes has none of those human features. It is the cold-blooded debasement of a woman, the conversion of a human being into a walking talking receptacle into which a man dumps his fantasies and fluids. Purchase a commodity, p*ss on her, and flush. There--all done. The ability to do this--no, not just the ability, the avid desire and lust to do this--betrays a gaping crack in the soul.

Of course, the callous disregard for the happiness and well-being of a woman who has borne your children, to whom you have pledged eternal love, and who is defenseless against your betrayal, is the same in either case. But when a man has an affair, his wife learns that he loves someone else. When he turns out to be a user of prostitutes, she learns that he loves no one. That may be worse.

Alicia
March 12, 2008 10:19 AM

Only she can say.

Connie
March 12, 2008 10:32 AM

Dr. Laura says it must be Silda's fault.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/23575221/

Franklin Evans
March 12, 2008 10:33 AM

If the reader finds my feather metaphor confusing, that's because it is. I composed it pre-coffee, and should've waited. ;-)

Anyway, my target with the accident metaphor was intended to Sig's general point: so long as our culture permits seeing sex as a commodity -- something ubiquitous and much more farreaching than any prostitution scandal -- there cannot be a change in any of the results.

We will continue to see women as objects, and to a lesser extent men as well.

We will continue to see buying sex as normative (and prostitution is the tip of that iceberg).

We will continue to blame the seller, when it is the buyer on whom we should be focused.

Irenaeus
March 12, 2008 10:35 AM

In fact, the latest is that she's begging him not to resign (but also that he's begun telling top aides he is resigning).

Irenaeus
March 12, 2008 10:36 AM

My gosh, Ed, is that as anti-semitic as I perceive it??

[From Rod: Yes it is, Irenaeus, and I have just unpublished it. -- RD.]

bty5050
March 12, 2008 10:41 AM

Harvey...for the purposes of clarification the love that is necessary for a successful marriage isn't something that you can "fall in and out" of as sentiment dictates. Marriages that last occur when both parties place the needs and wants of their partner above their own. The love that would be able to bring the Spitzer family out of this situation is rooted in commitment and selflessness. Trying to get past the breakwaters in any relationship relying on sentiment is incredibly risky, especially when the roughest seas are further from shore.

My parents divorced when I was young. My father was unfaithful and while my mother was committed and sought reconciliation, my father left. While my parents always prioritized my brother and I (to the point that other kids envied my father's involvement in my life), if given the choice I would have preferred them to stay together.

My father turned his life around, sought the forgiveness of my mother, brother & I, remarried an amazing woman and became one of my greatest heroes. On his deathbed however, his divorce was the greatest regret of his life.

I don't pretend to know what decision holds the best outcome in this specific situation. Mrs. Spitzer has every right to kick her husband to the curb. However, if reconciliation is possible, I will always err on keeping the family together.

Jim
March 12, 2008 10:44 AM

I like what Franklin and Sig said very much, though "he loves no one" may be a bit too harsh. Never underestimate what compartmentalization and rationalization can permit a man to do...

speakfromtheheart
March 12, 2008 10:50 AM

Should she stay or leave? It's totally her choice, her decision. She should think long and hard (pun unintended) regarding HIS CHOICE of not using a condom. He has essentially played russian roulette with HER LIFE - without her having a say. Free will is a b#*ch.

That callousness, above all, speaks volumes on HIS ego.

The publicity has already scarred the 3 daughters. Forever. And I'm of the opinion that staying for the sake of kids/appearance does not make for a 'good upbringing.' Kids sense the dysfunctional nature of the relationship etc. There likely is never a good ending - whether one chooses to stay or leave a marriage -- but for those who had a bad experience after parental divorce -- it doesn't mean it wouldn't have been horrendous had they stayed. Choices are made...

Spitzer has been doing this for YEARS. This is not one-time, nor is this group the ONLY group he's been involved in.

NY taxpayers should be crying for an investigation that he did not use taxpayer money (likely not, but you never know: a car ride here, a ticket there...)

Steve
March 12, 2008 10:52 AM

Once you get past the anger, the hurt and the yelling you need to reach the point where you can talk again. Hopefully, you dont say anything too awful or do anything with permanent consequences in that initial period.

Then as the hurt party I think you need to engage in absolutely brutal self honesty. Can you forgive your spouse enough to make things work? maybe it wont be the best marriage but maybe it can still be pretty good. If you have children can you really put their needs ahead of your need? What are their needs? Has the home been a simmering pot waiting to overflow or has this been an otherwise good relationship? My interpretation of the Bible is that adultery is grounds for a divorce but it doesnt mandate that you have to divorce the adulterer. I think whats important is that you really know what kind of person you are, no lies to yourself, and then move on. Trying to make things work knowing that you cant forgive sexual infidelity will most likely poison the relationship and ruin it anyway and harm the kids even more.

This self examination is greatly abetted by having people to talk with. News Flash: All ministers/priests arent especially good at this stuff. Talk with friends and family even a therapist. Heck, if you are an atheist probably even your bartender will do as this really an internal conversation anyway.

Once you have decided what you can handle you need to have the serious talks with your spouse. You will probably want gurantees that they will never do such a thing again. Its pretty hard to deal with since they have already proved that you cant trust them. If they say all the right things and you think you forgive then stay together.

I dont know whats in Silda's heart. My cynical side (and maybe cynicism is a worse sin that adultery) thinks that shes a political wife and likes all the attention and comforts too much to not look supportive. As a Christian I can only hope that she has good support and is able to do that which is best for her and her family. If that is what she is seeking then "standing by his side" now makes sense. I also think she will be able to get some idea of how important she is to him based on whether or not he resigns. People deal with issues of infidelity everyday in America. Few do it on the evening news. If he is willing to step out of the public spotlight and work with her she might have some reason to believe the marriage could be saved, at least from his side.

Steve

Steve
March 12, 2008 11:05 AM

Speaking in general, however, based on a lifetime of observation and experience, when a person in a relationship with you--be that friendship, marriage, family, or whatever--does anything, it is always about them. It's not about you.

Sig- Seems to me that I have know quite a few couples where both parties were screwed up. I have also known people where one person seemed like a saint and we all assumed it was the other person's fault, that it really was about one person's selfish needs. I dont know which is more common. Im not saying here that a spouse can ever force their partner to infidelity. They can push them down the path.

Steve

Susanna
March 12, 2008 11:07 AM

Sigiliris must have never had the opportunity to enjoy sex for its own sake without having to shore up some poor baby's self esteem by pretending to love him as well. Sure, Eliott Spitzer was a creep for betraying his wife and if she did the same thing so was she. I would be pissed too. But the only problem with prostitutes as far as my girlfriends and I can see is that most are just the wrong sex, lol.

sigaliris
March 12, 2008 11:13 AM

I know what you're saying, Jim, and I agree. I may have overstated the point a bit for emphasis. But I think there's a good chance that someone who is that heavily compartmentalized and in denial does have real problems with feeling or expressing anything that would be recognizable as real love for another. Narcissism isn't just an epithet to be slung in the culture wars--it's an actual DSM IV diagnosis, and one that's quite prevalent among the rich and mighty. ("A pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy," to be precise.) It's also true that underneath much apparently arrogant and callous behavior, there often lurks a surprisingly pitiful, scared human being, and I have a lot of compassion for that. The compassion just doesn't extend to watching them act out on the body of another human.

Anonymous
March 12, 2008 11:25 AM

What says the room?

This member of the room says 2 things:

1. Prostitution should be legalized.

and

2. the rest of the room's occupants should MTOFB as pertains to Ms Spitzer.

Roland de Chanson
March 12, 2008 11:27 AM

I don't mean to play the Devil's Advocate (well, sure I do!) but if this sordid little soap opera is about mere sex (i.e. not financial tromperie) then the appropriately surnamed Mr. Spitzer is at least to be lauded for not molesting the interns.

The universal that Rod cites is of course concupiscence; the particular, one man's chronic cacoethes coeundi. Why not as well universalize the equally human cacoethes cacandi. We have come to that summit of high civilisation in this country where the exigencies of the latter are enshrined in the wondrous architectural and technological edifices of sewage treatment plants; those of the former only in the bawdy houses of Nevada. (And the Mayflower Hotel if you can afford it and register under an assumed name.)

Far more to be condemned, though, are the gleeful expressions of Schadenfreude from the frog chorus of the priggishly sinless. Such glee arises no doubt from the governor's sempiternally irritating sanctimony; perhaps he was justifiably hoist to his own brand of pétard, but to give him his due, he never squandered the state's resources prosecuting the peccadilloes of the perennially prurient. De minimis not curat praetor.

His is a quintessentially Christian sense of justice -- overturn the counting tables of the corporate brigands of Wall Street and cast no stones at pitiful prostitutes.

No, he should not be run out of office for his crime of carnality. He should be run out for trying to give drivers' licences to illegal aliens. Let's get our priorities straight, citizens!

recovering ex-Pentecostal
March 12, 2008 11:34 AM

"priggishly sinless"

Love it!

sigaliris
March 12, 2008 11:45 AM

Steve, I think you can pretty much assume that in any given relationship, both parties will be screwed up! ; ) Even if one person looks perfect, the question would arise, why would such a perfect person choose to be with someone who was messed up? I'm just disputing the idea that the messed-upness of another person can "cause" me to behave badly or "push" me in that direction.

I think we can all see the disconnect in logic when it's something like: "My girlfriend dumped me . . . so therefore I need to buy an automatic rifle, go to the mall and shoot fifteen people." But it's equally illogical to say "My wife didn't want to have sex with me last night . . . so therefore I had to hire a prostitute." Or, "My husband doesn't show me the attention I want . . . so therefore I have to start an affair with a co-worker." All that another person can "push" me into is a confrontation with myself. My husband's lack of attention can make me realize that I'm not happy with how things are in our relationship. What I choose to do about that is entirely my own decision. There's no inherent logic forcing me to choose infidelity as a solution.

jaybird
March 12, 2008 11:48 AM

perhaps he was justifiably hoist to his own brand of pétard, but to give him his due, he never squandered the state's resources prosecuting the peccadilloes of the perennially prurient. De minimis not curat praetor. His is a quintessentially Christian sense of justice -- overturn the counting tables of the corporate brigands of Wall Street and cast no stones at pitiful prostitutes.


Actually, he did make a big deal about busting up two other prostitution rings when he was attorney general.

Franklin Evans
March 12, 2008 11:54 AM

AP just covered his announcement that he is resigning effective Monday.

who knew
March 12, 2008 11:55 AM

Here's my question. How is it good for a (I'm guessing)liberal feminist
to teach her daughters that what women are for is the use of men. If you have a good body, it is more than okay to, as Sigaliris said, become a human garbage can, as long as you get paid enough for it. If your husband treats you like dirt, you are to stay by him because he makes good money and is in the public eye, or in the case of Hilary, may be able to furthur your own ambitions. And look how well that decision worked for her.

I agree, we really don't know what their personal life is like and this is an intrusion into it. All news is a type of intrusion, isn't it? But I find very often the "women behind the throne" presume to tell other women how to live their lives (abortion issues, how many childen we should be limited to, wether being a home maker is a "real" job or not... Why shouldn't we speculate on how this penchant men in power seem to have for veiwing women, wives and hookers, as somehow less than human, not worthy of having their dignity considered,will impact on the world's veiw of women.

News Flash: Spitzer has just resigned, effective Monday. He still maintains it is a private matter. Except as a local talk jock says, Spitzer has broken a great many laws in conducting this "private matter" and used my family's money (I'm a New Yorker) to do it. Even though he claims to be able to separate his personal funds (he's a multi-millionaire) from the salary he is paid by we,the people.

Marian Neudel
March 12, 2008 12:09 PM

The decision to stay or go should be entirely up to the wronged party. It is none of our business. Repeat, it is none of our business.

Marian Neudel
March 12, 2008 12:14 PM

"She ain't going to give him up; she's a jewish wife. He's worth mega millions."

Excuse me? Has this combox become a haven for crude anti-semitism? Rod, say something or I'm outa here.

elizabeth
March 12, 2008 12:29 PM

The future of the marriage is not our business, agreed.

Was his behavior a symptom of a deeper psychological condition? I deeply hope that we don't have to find out, but I sense a future Oprah interview in the next year or two.

The couple will have at least one book out and be touring. How likely is it that this grandstander can stay out of the spotlight for very long?

Erick
March 12, 2008 12:33 PM

"Excuse me? Has this combox become a haven for crude anti-semitism? Rod, say something or I'm outa here."

I believe Rod already deleted the offensive post, which you just re-posted by quoting it.

Bruce Geerdes
March 12, 2008 12:34 PM

If I was the governor, I don't think I would've asked my wife to stand by me during the statement. Allow her some small shred of dignity during this embarrassing time.

Erick
March 12, 2008 12:34 PM

"Excuse me? Has this combox become a haven for crude anti-semitism? Rod, say something or I'm outa here."

I believe Rod already deleted the offensive post, which you just re-posted by quoting it.

Grumpy Old Man
March 12, 2008 12:37 PM

When my youngest was 4, my wife and I had serious problems (mostly my fault). When my wife announced that we were separating, my 4-year-old said, "But we need a Daddy."

I never did leave. It hasn't been easy, but looking back, it's really very simple: the children come first.

I know nothing about the Spitzer marriage except for his tomcatting, but I do know this: the children come first.

Eric W
March 12, 2008 12:38 PM

FYI - Eliot Spitzer is Jewish. His wife is/was Baptist. I don't think she converted, but maybe she did.

jaybird
March 12, 2008 12:47 PM

If I was the governor, I don't think I would've asked my wife to stand by me during the statement. Allow her some small shred of dignity during this embarrassing time.

I see what you're saying, but by getting up on the podium with him, she probably figures she may as well get it over with, and put a damper on the inevitable speculation that would ensue if she didn't. Pretty much one of those situations where you have to figure out the least awful option among many.

treebeard
March 12, 2008 1:06 PM

I found it appalling that Spitzer brought out his daughters for his announcement. His wife I can understand, but his daughters? Why do they have to be there? That's kind of creepy.
I feel so sorry for them. I can't imagine what they are going through.

M.Z. Forrest
March 12, 2008 1:08 PM

For better or worse, people are generally brought to press conferences to get the press to act with a modicum of decency. With his wife there, the press at least gives some thought before asking a question.

Eric W
March 12, 2008 1:13 PM

Save, O Lord, and have mercy on Eliot and Silda Spitzer and their children.

John E.
March 12, 2008 1:32 PM

>>>>
Should Silda Spitzer have come out to stand by her creepy husband Eliot as he confessed to hiring a hooker? Should she give him the boot now?
>>>>

Not my call, not my business...

fdr
March 12, 2008 1:36 PM

I see a parralell with whats goign on in the Orthodox Diocese of Alaska. "Throw the bum out" is the cry of some, but that is not ideal. What IS ideal is repentance and restoration.

Scott Lahti
March 12, 2008 1:46 PM

Mr. Clean, moist by Hizzone peckard...

He didn't just profess anti-trust - he lived it.

Simon
March 12, 2008 1:50 PM

The traditional value least fashionable in our society (including among supposed conservative/traditionalists) is forgiveness. We all talk too much about justice, and nowhere near enough about MERCY.

None of us knows anything at all about the Spitzers' marriage, the sincerity of his repentence, or whether there's a realistic chance of his behavior changing. We don't even know with certainty that Silda Spitzer is an entirely innocent victim of her husband -- although there's obviously no reason to assume she is anything other than that. We have one data point -- he's been a serial user of prostitutes for at least 6-10 years -- and it's a really, really bad one. But even that isn't the whole story of the Spitzers' lives. Hopefully there is some basis for reconciliation and restoring some semblance of a decent family life, for the sake of both the children AND their parents.

Point is, we don't know, and we can't know, what's going on in that family. Therefore, we shouldn't judge.

Charity
March 12, 2008 1:54 PM

I do agree that what Silda Spitzer decides to do is up to her and is none of our business. Whatever her decision, she will be suffering for a long time to come, and not through any fault of her own.

But I do think it is our business when infidelity threathens and destroys marriages. The reason why is this: broken marriages have a profound impact on society. Both spouses have reduced standards of living with all that implies - lower or lack of health car, increased govenment assistance, increased incidents of depression, etc. Not to mention the harm it causes children to have their stability and sense of self damange by this. And these children grow up with these wounds. Which costs us in the sense that people who could be so much more are hampered by these wounds.

You want to talk defense of marriage? THIS is one of the biggest threats to marriage. Not just the infidality, but our winking at it or just shrugging our shoulders like it's no big deal.

Of course, I have the radical idea that when two people marry, I have the obligation (as a member of socity) to support them in said marriage and value the sancity of marriage, even those that are not my own.

Simon
March 12, 2008 2:02 PM

His is a quintessentially Christian sense of justice -- overturn the counting tables of the corporate brigands of Wall Street and cast no stones at pitiful prostitutes.

On the contrary, while we have no basis to judge Mr. Spitzer as a private person (awful as this week's revelations make him look), as a public official he was an attrocity.

Many of the "corporate brigands of Wall Street" he investigated, defamed, and sometimes prosecuted were guilty of nothing more than having crossed Spitzer personally. He was aided and abetted by a fawning, financially-ignorant press corps that loves to fantasize about a white knight prosecutor fighting Robber Barons.

One thing we've learned this week is how important it is in public life to have friends. Spitzer's notoriously arrogant misbehavior as Attorney General, and to a lesser extent as Governor, left him with virtually no friends in public life -- not even among the legions of Democrats on Wall Street, in the legal community, in New York City, and in Albany. That's the ultimate reason he had to resign. Unlike Bill Clinton 10 years ago, Spitzer has no partisan allies rushing to his defense. What goes around, comes around.

Simon
March 12, 2008 2:07 PM

You want to talk defense of marriage? THIS is one of the biggest threats to marriage. Not just the infidality, but our winking at it or just shrugging our shoulders like it's no big deal.

Who winks at marital infidelity?

My distinct impression is that a man cheating on his wife -- whether via prostitution or via an affair with his 25 year old "assistant" -- was far more socially acceptable half a century ago than it is today. Not that society ever approved of such things, but in earlier generations they were more likely to be "winked at" than they are today.

Bruce Geerdes
March 12, 2008 2:20 PM

jaybird writes:
she may as well get it over with, and put a damper on the inevitable speculation that would ensue if she didn't

What inevitable speculation did she put a damper on? That the marriage may end? That she hadn't heard the news? I don't see it.

treebeard writes:
I found it appalling that Spitzer brought out his daughters for his announcement.

Ack, I didn't see that. They're not being included in the photos. Decency on the press's part?

sigaliris
March 12, 2008 2:40 PM

moist by Hizzone peckard

One night with Kristen: 5000+
Cost estimate for past assignations: 80,000, per NY Post
Loss of salary plus future legal costs: half a million or more, I should think
Pun-ishment by Scott Lahti: priceless!

starved for affection
March 12, 2008 2:46 PM

Dr. Laura may be right.

I'm not commenting on Elliott and Silda Spitzer, as I have no knowledge or right to comment on their lives.

But I can tell you about my own struggles. I've been married for nearly 20 years, and I live in a nearly sexless marriage. I have multiple children, but the "sex" was cut off years ago.

And not only sex, but all forms of affection are completely absent from my wife's direction. When I have talked to my wife about it, she says "Sorry, I'm just not an affectionate person." Even a hug, or a peck on the cheek would do wonders for me.

We've gone to marriage weekends, and sought counseling, but all to no avail.

I am a devout Roman Catholic, with a valid marriage, so divorce is not a possibility. Nor, for that matter, is adultery or prostitution. But I can't say that in moments of weakness that I haven't seriously considered the latter two options.

So although I wouldn't seek out a prostitute or an affair, I am not going to condemn someone else who did, because for all I know he could be in the same situation that I'm in. Thousands of men are.

jaybird
March 12, 2008 2:51 PM

What inevitable speculation did she put a damper on? That the marriage may end? That she hadn't heard the news? I don't see it.

Maybe not speculation per se, but if she didn't appear on stage with him, I think it'd probably make the whole press/paprazzi frenzy even worse than it already is - photographers and reporters hounding her everywhere, etc. Or maybe not - like I said, the range of options here are so bad that's it's probably not really discernable what the best choice would be. For whatever reason, the presence of the wronged-wife-at-the-press-conference seems to be the way these things go now. Maybe it's just easier to go through the whole humiliating ritual because that's what everyone else does... I dunno, I'm not the wife of an adulterous politician, thankfully.

Don Altabello
March 12, 2008 2:53 PM

starved for affection--I highly doubt it. Sounds more like a person who could not get a handle on his own power, and let his arrogance get the better of him. That's a presumption I'm prepared to make over the idea that he just wasn't getting any.

By the way, by means of a superficial comparison, anyone notice how Spitzer is by far the less attractive when compared with is wife?

Bruce Geerdes
March 12, 2008 2:56 PM

anyone notice how Spitzer is by far the less attractive when compared with is wife?

Being a man, you *would* say that. ;)

M.Z. Forrest
March 12, 2008 2:58 PM

Roughly have of all people have committed adultery. Roughly a quarter have committed adultery while in a relationship with their present partner. I ain't going to tell anyone it's right, but to pretend it is rare is the height of naivette. I would speculate politicians as a population have a higher rate due to the personality types attracted to politics.

Eric W
March 12, 2008 3:13 PM

FWIW - Eliot Spitzer is Jewish. "Adultery" according to the Old Testament is defined in terms of the woman's marital status, not the man's. Hence, he has not committed "adultery" under Jewish law. ;^)

See, e.g., The Nine Commandments: Uncovering the Hidden Pattern of Crime and Punishment in the Hebrew Bible, by David Noel Freedman, or The Israelis: Ordinary People in an Extraordinary Land, by Donna Rosenthal. Freedman's book is about a pattern he saw in the Hebrew Bible, and in the course of his discussion he notes this fact about how "adultery" as defined in the Old Testament (Freedman is a major OT scholar). Rosenthal's book is a fascinating pastiche of portraits of modern Israeli society, and in one of the chapters she recounts an incident related to this.

(At least I believe it was in Freedman's and Rosenthal's books that I read this.)

M.Z. Forrest
March 12, 2008 3:15 PM

To put a nice shiny bow on things, the question being asked is similar to asking 10-year-olds if they would marry someone if he/she isn't a virgin. It is not a question you can really answer honestly until the situation presents itself. It is not a question you can answer for someone else. What we will tell the 10-year-old is that he or she should try to delay relations until they are married. We will tell them that sometimes people give into passions and do things that are not right. What we will tell the aggrieved spouse is that they should attempt to reconcile the marriage. We will tell them that there long term interests are generally best served by remaining in the marriage.

Erin Manning
March 12, 2008 3:17 PM

Starved, I'll pray for you. Is your wife also Catholic? If so, perhaps finding a good spiritual director might help her. Objectively speaking (and I stress that there is no way for me or anyone else to judge the subjective reality for you or your wife) it is a sin, and possibly a grave one, for one spouse to withhold unjustly the marital relationship from the other spouse.

As for the Spitzer matter, I agree that we can't know, and perhaps shouldn't try to guess, what Mrs. Spitzer should do. There are far too many personal considerations for anyone to presume to know what her best option will be.

Rod Dreher
March 12, 2008 3:42 PM

My distinct impression is that a man cheating on his wife -- whether via prostitution or via an affair with his 25 year old "assistant" -- was far more socially acceptable half a century ago than it is today. Not that society ever approved of such things, but in earlier generations they were more likely to be "winked at" than they are today.

My late great-grandmother told me once that back when she and my great-grandfather moved to our quaint Southern town, the Depression was on, and she had to go to work as a telephone operator to feed the family (husband's mill job didn't bring in enough money). Some of the upper-crust women in town, she said, publicly disdained her for working for money. Their husbands were doctors and lawyers, and they didn't need to work. The unspoken but widely known truth was all those professional white men kept black mistresses in the Negro quarters below the hill. I can easily imagine that the times being what they were, those black women had no say-so in whether or not they were going to become the mistress of Dr. Smith or Mr. Jones, Esq.-- that they could easily have been pressed into a kind of sex slavery.

All this went on behind a veneer of bourgeois respectability.

Simon
March 12, 2008 3:46 PM

Roughly have of all people have committed adultery. Roughly a quarter have committed adultery while in a relationship with their present partner.

M.Z., This particular stat didn't sound right to me, so I tried to look it up. From what I can tell, various feminist web sites claim that half of all men cheat on their wives, but without any precise source for those claims.

A recent ABC News "sex survey" poll claims that 16% of all adults have at some point in their lives cheated while in a "committed relationship" -- 21% of all adult men, and 11% of adult women. The incidence of past cheating is highest among single men over age 30 (which includes divorced and widowed men).

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/PollVault/Story?id=156921&page=3

Also, FWIW, 91% of adults apparently believe that adultery is "always wrong."

sigaliris
March 12, 2008 3:55 PM

starved, I don't know anything about your situation, so this isn't meant as specific to you. But I notice that many people think of "counseling" as something that you try once, and then if it doesn't work, you give up. It's a lot more like buying a used car. Most people have picked a lemon once or twice. But you don't then say, "I tried buying a car and it didn't work!" You just go out and keep trying till you find a car you can drive. There are many different types of counseling, and different counselors. There are also a lot of books you can read about relationship problems. I would say keep trying till you find something that works for you. And in a relationship, even if one partner doesn't want to keep going, the other can often benefit by a better understanding of him/herself and the situation.

And one further caveat--the fact that someone calls him/herself a Catholic or Christian therapist is no guarantee of competence. The first time I consulted a counselor was about some family issues when our kids were teenagers. I thought at the time that "Christian" anything had to be better. I talked to first a person from Catholic Social Services, and then a "Christian" psychological counselor. What a mistake! Those people were CRAZY. If I'd followed their advice my entire family would be nuts today. I'm sure there are good Christian/Catholic counselors, but you can't assume they're good just because of the name.

Woodrow
March 12, 2008 4:05 PM

I now understand why some traditional civilizations don't allow women to initiate divorce. Given the male's natural biological propensities, if women initiated divorce every time a man played around, you'd have . . . well, um, you'd have exactly what you have today (half of all families breaking up!).

And we see how well THAT'S worked out!

And now the feminist-led divorce culture has gotten so out of control that even so-called "conservatives" now condemn a woman who DOESN'T dump her husband for the slightest sexual misconduct (well, at least if the husband is a Democrat; thankfully, I haven't heard lots of complaints about Wendy Vitter).

I suppose Mr. Dreher did right by not completely following this trend. But by entertaining it as a notion worthy of serious consideration, and even treating it as a close call, he shows how even he has been tainted by the cultural sewage of the past half century.

M.Z. Forrest
March 12, 2008 4:09 PM

Simon,

I pulled the numbers from here: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/18055526

Simon
March 12, 2008 5:16 PM

M.Z., your link is to an internet survey conducted by ivillage, not a scientific sample. I really can't believe that social disapproval of adultery could remain so widespread today (as it is) if more than half of all adults had engaged in it.

So I'm guessing the ABC poll numbers of 16% are closer to the truth. That said, the usual caveat: Because most normal people are highly reluctant to discuss their own sexual behavior with anyone, ALL statistical "data" about the prevalence of various sexual behaviors have to be taken with a gigantic grain of salt.

M.Z. Forrest
March 12, 2008 5:35 PM

You are correct Simon. The ABC number seemed a little low to me, but 1/7 is high enough not to be in the unheard of territory, which was more my point.

Zoetius
March 12, 2008 6:05 PM

Hmmmm. 1 in 4 teenage girls has an STD.

Client 9 had a history of asking for things that weren't "you might not think were safe... very basic things."

"I have a way of dealing with that," Kristen said. "I'd be like 'listen dude. You really want the sex?'"

Staying with him could get her the death penalty. Not worth it or warranted in this day and age.

Woodrow, really, 80k in "natural biological propensities" shouldn't get his doormat of a wife a waver on the societal contempt for divorcees.

How agreeable would you be if the hen was playing around with a strange cock. Would you encourage the former governor to stand by his woman. "Traditional societies" have other ways of enforcing cultural norms.

Zoetius
March 12, 2008 6:09 PM

Besides, didn't Jesus give the Okely-dokely for divorce in the setting of marital unfaithfulness?

Jillian
March 12, 2008 6:26 PM


It's their family and marriage, not ours; it's theirs alone to decide when the terms of the covenant(s) at the bottom of their relationships are irreparably violated.

Perhaps as a society we can hold opinions about those terms that emerge, but so far there's no indicator of anything objectively objectionable.

fbc
March 12, 2008 6:36 PM

Besides, didn't Jesus give the Okely-dokely for divorce in the setting of marital unfaithfulness?

No, but that may depend on whose translation of the word porneia you use. The Protestants (and others perhaps) translate that as "infidelity".

The Catholic Church doesn't. Which is why divorce is verboten.

Jus' tryin' to be helpful, here.

Been_There
March 12, 2008 6:40 PM

Women have changed. In the old days we would have sucked it up and stayed, for all kinds of good reasons but mainly because we didn't have enough money. What Eliot is suffering from is soul rot. If you dedicate your life to sloth, gluttony, lust, etc., then you're getting it all wrong; you're missing the whole point of being alive. NOBODY deserves to be saddled with a mate whose soul and spirit smells like a dead whale. She's better off without him, and so are the kids.

Jeannette
March 13, 2008 12:09 AM

fbc,
It's not the divorce; it's remarriage without annulment the Church disallows (annulment could be gotten very easily, I'd think. It doesn't look like he really ever had an intention to be faithful. warning-VERY amateur opinion here)

That doesn't answer the question of which is better for the family, of course. What a creep.

Charlie
March 13, 2008 2:53 AM

It is her decision. GOD BLESS THEM.

Stephanie
March 13, 2008 8:01 AM

I really feel for Silda and her daughters, what a shame that her husband, who is suppose to uphold the law as Governor of my home state, would do what he did. Do I think she should stand by her man? Silda should pray and think about what's best for her family. I don't think I would have the strength to forgive for something so horrible, but then I'm not her am I?

rickey
March 13, 2008 8:50 AM

Course its her decision...but every one makes mistakes...if I were her
I would ask myself do I really love him, can I handle the pain of his mistake and can I truly ever forgive him...if any of the above is a no...then she needs to move on...and kick him to the curb

Franklin Evans
March 13, 2008 9:16 AM

24% of all statistics are meaningless.

;-D

K. Fitzpatrick
March 13, 2008 9:29 AM

I am currently legally separated from a husband who was unfaithful to me on many occasions. I think part of the problem lies in the fact that it takes a while for even the smartest, most confident woman in the world to understand that it is not her fault that her husband could not think with the right part of his anatomy and take his wedding vows seriously. It is a shame that a roll in the sheets was more important than the promises and vows he made to the woman in his life and his family.

fbc
March 13, 2008 10:01 AM


It's not the divorce; it's remarriage without annulment the Church disallows

Actually, although I'm not a canon lawyer, I don't think that is true. Divorce is still a sin. Even separation is disallowed under canon law, and has a requirement that the innocent spouse submit it to Church authorities within a certain time-period (six months, if I'm not mistaken.)

If I read it correctly, canon law requires that for a spouse to separate from another, the non-innocent (non-separating) spouse must pose a grave danger to the health or safety of the spouse and/or children.

Certainly remarriage without a decree of nullity is in and of itself a sin -- the sin of adultery.

But both divorce and re-marriage are sinful (unless of course there was never a valid marriage in the first place.)

Bleu
March 13, 2008 10:16 AM

We are all HUMAN and as humans, mistakes are made. Sometimes repetitively, until something happens that brings us to the bottom and provides that "wake up call". This is the Governors "bottom" - the path to 'healing' now rests on he and his family. As for everyone else...
Let he/she who is WITHOUT sin be the first to cast the first stone.
Hmmmmmm.

a scorned wife too
March 13, 2008 12:48 PM

BOTH of my exes cheated on me, the first one had girlfriends, the second one had girlfriends and had sex with hookers!
If men cannot, will not be faithful to their wives, do us a favor and dont ge married please!
God hates adulters and people who committ adultery!

Donna Diorio
March 13, 2008 1:06 PM

I agree with you, Rod. Only Silda knows whether her marriage is worth allowing Eliot to try to mend. We have made a sport out of speculating what people in the glare of the spotlight should do. Most of the advice I hear from the gossip-titillated media pundits and talk backs is pure baloney. No human compassion required.

Chris Russell
March 13, 2008 1:20 PM

My wife was unfaithful to me and while we're "legally separated" we have not divorced for a variety of reasons. First of all, if I divorced her (as many have opined that I should) she would be "out in the street" without any medical insurance or means of support. She would, again in my opinion, eventually have to commit suicide and I simply could not live with that on my conscious. You see, she has a "personality disorder" as her psychiatrist calls it and her actions are influenced by this disorder. There are different kinds of what we call "love" and I suppose my point is that I do, in fact, love her. I wouldn't "throw the bum out" as I'm unable to do so. It goes against my soul's grain so to speak. We're only here (on earth) for a little while and then have to deal with eternity. So regardless of what she does or did during this short sojourn, I'm governed by the Master's order that 'thou shalt do unto others as ye would have them do unto you.'
Best wishes,
CR

Marian Neudel
March 13, 2008 1:47 PM

"Besides, didn't Jesus give the Okely-dokely for divorce in the setting of marital unfaithfulness?

"No, but that may depend on whose translation of the word porneia you use. The Protestants (and others perhaps) translate that as "infidelity"."

Jesus is taking up a dispute among Pharisees that was current in his time, between the School of Hillel and the School of Shammai. The former was generally considered to be the most "liberal" and the latter the most "strict." I put those in quotes because, on the issue of divorce, the adjectives may or may not be appropriate depending on whether you're taking the wife's or the husband's point of view.

The biblical passage in dispute involved permitting the husband to divorce the wife if he found "something impure" in her. That's the word that the Septuagint translates "porneia." In Hebrew it's "ervat davar." And nobody is really 100% clear on what it means in either language, including the rabbis. The School of Shammai says "adultery, and nothing else." The School of Hillel says "anything displeasing to the husband, including burning the toast." So Jesus is taking a really hard-line School of Shammai position.

Interestingly enough, some Christian churches still take the "except for adultery" position. I once had a client who insisted on using "infidelity" as grounds for her divorce. She had pretty good evidence--a birth certificate for a child listing the husband as the father and some other woman as the mother. And she got her divorce. But these days divorce judges hate having to deal with issues of sex and violence. If I hadn't been able to explain that my client's church required using those grounds, the judge would almost certainly have forced me to amend to mental cruelty.

Danny
March 13, 2008 1:55 PM

is not our place to say that she should stay or go. She need to decide for herself and her family what is the best thing for herself. This pig of man who it appears had sleeped with many women, does not respect her or women. He used them as sex toys and he had daugthers. It does not say much about the man himself. I pray for Silda and her children. I prayer for him as well, that he need to change his ways. It seem the rich do not feel they need to play by the rules like the rest of us and he got caught.

dulcenea
March 13, 2008 2:02 PM

Been there done that. I forgave him the first time. Then I decided to get even and have an affair of my own. It did not make me feel better/i did not get even/he was not even aware of what was going on as he continued womanizing. The last time our children were 19 and 26. I felt my life and my childrens lives were in danger as he became violent and his mistress harrassed me no end. I filed for divorce/he is now dead. I still feel bad. I think I was weak and did not trust enough in us although we both had done enough to destroy us/ we were a family and my 19 year old still carries the scars 16 years later. He was not all bad and I miss him. My lover is also dead. He died 6 months after my ex did.

angel
March 13, 2008 2:20 PM

At the risk of sounding like a negative person, I think that if she doesn't divorce him now.

First----After a lot more heartache, she'll end up divorcing him anyway. From past experience, guys are who they are; if they cheat, they cheat. A guy may try to amend his ways but will most likely turn back to cheating eventually.

Second---When a person hurts their mate as Spitzer did, even if you try to forgive that will always be in the back of your mind. Those thoughts tend to make you angry. You end up saying something that becomes an argument. The kids have to live with that negativity and become negative themselves.

-I think you should not waste her time and leave him. It will be difficult at first but will realize later that she is happier without him rather than living with him and always wondering. The kids will survive; they do better than adults.

Suzanne Bailey
March 13, 2008 2:32 PM

What she does is her business, not mine and not yours. "If he is repentant...."???? Pu-lease! He is scum and got caught. Period.

Marian
March 13, 2008 2:50 PM

In sickness and in health, for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in good times and bad, til death do us part
who will be affected, and to what degree?
Can you make it on your own, by yourself?
Are you used to holding down a job?
Can you afford to go back home to moms?
What are the ages of the children, can they handle it?
How strong are you? Are you able to hold your head up in public?

To Each His Own

Mel
March 13, 2008 3:18 PM

She should stand by her husband. And besides, God forgave

Anonymous
March 13, 2008 3:43 PM

The Whore Dog would be out in the cold streets before he could finish explaining. There is NO EXCUSE for this kind of sorriness....

Betty Bitzer
March 13, 2008 4:04 PM

Emphatically and absolutely NO!!!!!!!!! She should leave him and take him for everything she can get, she looks devastated and hurt beyond belief. What he did is unthinkable. She also has the opportunity and the obligation to show other women who may not be as afluent as her that there is no need to stay in a relationship where she is shamed and abused. I think she should forgive him, but strongly feel she should leave him.

Been there Done it
March 13, 2008 4:37 PM

I've been exactly where Silda is now. Literally standing beside my minister husband as he addressed the congregation about his sins (alcohol, money, women, etc.), with the same expression on my face that she wore, looking at my husband speaking generally along the same lines as her husband, apologizing but not sorry for anything, thinking that hopefully someone in the audience is seeing through this and maybe reading my expression ("I really don't want to be here").
It really scares me to even look at footage of the couple because I feel as though I am reliving my nightmare.
I eventually left my husband after much soul searching and praying and trying my darnest to make it work. I took all the foul comments and mistreatment in private and all the blame that everything was my fault. To this day, one year later, some people still can't believe all those things were true about him, because he was such a charmer in public, but in private was a controlling manipulator. I found the strength and courage to leave a 24 year marriage in which the last five was a living horror.
I don't know if this is Silda's situation, but it sure smacks of it.
That guy is a narcissitic b., who doesn't care about anyone but himself and attaining power. He proves it if the statement is true that he insisted the hooker not use protection, putting everyone at risk.
I honestly believe she should leave, it will only get worse, and believe me the children will recover. I thought it would devastate my 17 year old with her trying to finish school, but she has actually blossomed, no more stomach aches and her skin cleared and hair grew. She was stressed out, but thinking as I was, that we couldn't possible make it on our own without the many favors and influences that my husband seem to have, so we just suffered through thinking it was best to stay together as a family.
My leaving did not split or destroy the family, it was split when my husband defiled the marriage bed with someone else along with the alcohol, and the family was destroyed when he called me names and touched me in abusive ways (shoving and choking).
I feel so sorry for Silda and her children, because he will recover and move on without looking back and Silda will have to rebuild from the ruins what he willfully built and then destroyed with his own hands. God help them.
(Sorry for rambling, but things are not always as they seem)

Concerned New Yorker
March 13, 2008 4:52 PM

If I were Silda, I'd be scared. Governor Spitzer not only indulged in affairs, he did so without protecting himself and his wife from diseases, which don't always show up immediately after the encounters.

Anonymous
March 13, 2008 5:16 PM

At the end of the day, it is up to her and not me. Here are some thoughts:


There is a difference between divorce and sepparation. They can sepparate and still not divorce. I don't understand why they would do one and not the other, but some people do.


He has exposed himself to illnesses, so he should not be in his wife's house. She should not have to worry about having to keep him away. Touching his wife is an honor, not a right, and he has violated that honor.


Children may not understand everything, but they are not fools. When a parent cheats, they violate their covenant with both their spouce and their children. Sometimes, the parents don't believe this because they don't want to believe it, but the children know the truth.


Warwounds
March 13, 2008 6:20 PM

I sorry to say my husband cheated on me for years. I'd say I'm
not educated and it would hurt the children if they had to do
without. We were a battered family for years until I pulled a gun on
him to stop him from kicking my daughter in the stomach because
she was too slow putting on her pj's (3yrs old at the time).
Then the verbal abuse became worse.
My children are grown and still alive but God forgive me, they both
are mentally scarred for the rest of their lives, daughter drinks
and seeks out men who are just like him. Son hold a job, no
more drinking and has the unspeakable job of mediator to this day
for his father and me and tries to hide his anxiety of his past.
I'd of left him if had it to do over again.
I hope some day my children can forgive me for my decision
I became educated and left him when in my 30's, way too late for
the children.

peggy guite
March 13, 2008 6:35 PM

She should leave him. He disgraced her and no woman should be treated like that. I think she should go out and do the same thing.

Anthony
March 13, 2008 7:18 PM

I don't purport to judge anyone but I would make several poits.

1. Gov. Spitzer is sexually a dysfunctional man and desperately needs help.

2. His personality of self-righteous is in keeping with this dysfunction.

3. He risked his own health and possibly the health of his wife by engaging with a hooker who had a history of drug abuse.

4.He needs to ask God, his wife, his children, family, friends and political supporters as well as the people of New York to forgive him.

5. He needs to take care that his remaining time is spent helping himself and others.

Anonymous
March 13, 2008 9:08 PM

A neighbor made this point about Mrs. Spitzer: She is the First Lady. She has a role that many of us don't have. She not only wears the hat of being married to him, but she also wears the hat of responsibility to her state. These days, it's not just a token place. The First Lady has a job to do. Should they divorce while he's in office I do not know if she would still have that role. If she doesn't do it, who will? I don't think that she should feel compelled to stay with him just so her status as First Lady doesn't change, but I think that her motivations for doing things with more formality and less passion than you or I might do them are probably connected to her role and her love for her state.

sue
March 13, 2008 10:17 PM

well she should have left him when she found out. those children should not be able to be alone with him at all!!!how she could have stood by him when he resigned office i dont know unless she is guilty of something?

Beth
March 13, 2008 10:18 PM

Two words:

ABSOLUTELY NOT

Carolyn
March 13, 2008 10:39 PM

Why does she have to appear to be a saint, she is deeply hurt at what this man as done to their family. He has brought the world in, to see what he destroyed and now the world has to watch the family suffer.
His wife and daughters have done nothing......but yet they now have to suffer through his selfishness and the shame he has brought to them.

He does not deserve the family love and support. He gave that up when he went and did what he did. He got caught and now the man should have to suffer but not his entire family.

byrdjj
March 13, 2008 10:46 PM


When they returned to their apartment after his announcement, Mrs. Spitzer did not wait to hold his hand or stay by his side. She may have only needed to get to the bathroom! She is not the only woman that has been cheated on ! She gave up her law career to be a wife and Mother. Those roles must have been very important to her! Also, do we know that she has been completely faithful to him? He acted in a "stupid" manner! He knew what laws he was breaking and prosecuting other people for the same thing he was partaker in!She needs to hang in there for herself and her daughters and take possession of all assets while he does his "time behind bars" with the other cronies he has sent to prison as well!

JANE
March 13, 2008 11:21 PM


THIS IS HER DECISION TO MAKE...NOT OURS!
BUT.....
IF IT WERE ME~~I WOULD BE GONE IN A HEARTBEAT!!!!!!!!!

Kevin
March 13, 2008 11:58 PM

If I were her, I would leave.

I do not see how her leaving would adversely affect her "family", either. For one, Spitzer has single-handedly destroyed his family. It is already dead. She would be in a much better position to make a healthy (if partial) family if she left. Plus, leaving him shows great self-respect, inner strength, and dignity. If she stays with him, she looks weak and implicitly teaches her children to be weak as well.

Unfortunately, love is an extremely rare commodity. Despite this, it is better to live alone in the recognition that one does not have it than to pretend that one has it where it is not to be found. To put on a facade "for the sake of the children" is to hurt them all the more by being fake and by living a lie. Living a lie is far worse than telling one. It forces other people, unwittingly, to interact with falsehood and deception when they interact with you. It is deadening to be around such people.

Silda, if not aware beforehand, is now aware of the falsehood she has been living within. She can now make the healing choice to leave and to begin a new life. Her children must not be looked at as weak, fragile beings that need protection from reality, but as beings that deserve the truth and to be taken seriously. The sooner they know that this world is a fractured, broken cesspool, the better it will be for them.

For that matter, I wonder why people continue to have children. The world is such a disgusting and foul heap of slop! If we are all so interested in protecting the children, I think it would be better that we ban having any!

Just some thoughts.

Lora
March 14, 2008 4:16 AM

All you have to do is to look at the photos of her, standing by her man, and you can see the rage and contempt on her face! Enough of this phony garbage! Staying together for the sake of the kids has never done any more harm, or good, than divorce, depending on the reasons for the decision and the execution of it. Unless both women, and men, start to stand up to abuse, our culture will continue to teach our children that abuse, in any form, is acceptable. Being as she is the mother of daughters, it is even more important that she not pass on the mantel of submission to abuse.
He didn't just have one tryst; he didn't have a mistress; he had a 'membership' in a prostitution ring! Now show me a man, who isn't a pimp, who would put up with that from his wife!
These women, (Dina, Hillary, Silda, etc.), are considered role models for our daughters and their lives are no better than Brittany Spears, Lindsey Lohan, and Paris Hilton! It's either 'do it', or 'be done to'. I for one, want better for my daughter.

Albert the Abstainer
March 14, 2008 5:51 AM

I just have to say I love that photo. The title: "New York Gothic". Look at it again, doesn't it resemble the famous painting?

Bee Bee VanMeter
March 14, 2008 7:05 AM

KICK HIM TO THE CURB!

writer2consultant
March 14, 2008 7:31 AM

Why stay? The man doesn't have his Governorship and she is not First Lady of the State anymore so why would she stay. If she did not know about his problem before, she certainly does now. She should take him for all he has, send him to the gutter where he belongs so he can continue selling himself as a whore and sollicit himself for sexual favors. I doubt that he could make the money he was paying out to the women he was servicing.
If she has had sex with him may be subjected to STD's and or HIV infection. This man is a sleeze and has been obsessed with prostitution for a long time, as I see it. He makes my skin crawl. Standing next to him reflects her sleeziness as well as her stupidity.

Giliana
March 14, 2008 7:37 AM

I can't agree. Children live by example. What sort of message would hanging tight convey? Besides, should she elect to stay, can you imagine what other proclivities his double-standards, might include? Surely, she'd be ever waiting for the other shoe to drop. For the good of the children? I don't think so. What does contempt towards one's partner, long-term, convey to one's children? It must be profoundly humiliating, for them, to attend school. I think they'd be sent off to boarding school, in Switzerland, or the like, as protection and to give them respite from their father's mess.

Giliana
March 14, 2008 7:39 AM

"better sent off" that is.

Helen
March 14, 2008 9:54 AM

I try to do to others as I'd want to be done by them in like circumstances. I also try not to judge others until I've walked a mile in their shoes. I realize this makes me sound like a sanctimonius fool but every story has two sides. I haven't heard his side yet. All I know is he's admitted to foolish behavior. I want to know why he risked his family and public life before judging.

Suzi
March 14, 2008 11:26 AM

The guy makes my skin crawl just to look at him. He was on an ego trip, wanting to be wanted, only he had to pay money for the time. Hope he didn't use public money. Best wishes to his wife, that has a lot to deal with right now. Time will heal for her.

Richard L Bentkowski
March 14, 2008 11:27 AM

This is a decision that Silda can only make. It is her life along with the children that she must consider. Her best bet now is to consult her clergyman for assistance and try to forgive Eliot if at all possible. Haing a hard heaft is not good for her and the chldren's emotional health. God be with her.

Marian Neudel
March 14, 2008 1:21 PM

"I can't agree. Children live by example. What sort of message would hanging tight convey?"

Maybe that when two people make a commitment to each other, it survives even the gross misconduct of one of them? How is this a bad example? What am I missing?

Marian Neudel
March 14, 2008 1:27 PM

"Standing next to him reflects her sleeziness as well as her stupidity."

Or maybe just her belief in what are supposed to be the traditional family values of forgiveness and commitment?

Cassie Cole
March 14, 2008 4:21 PM

I for one believe that she should kick his bum to the curve, not just because it is her right, but because it is the right example to set for her daughters who are old enough to understand what is going on. If she contineus to stay with her husband, yes, she may be teaching her children to be merciful. But she is also teaching them to be doormats: to allow other people to cheat and misuse them and take them for granted. She is teaching her daughters that a bad marriage with a dispicable, hypocritical, unbeleivably selfish creep (who broke his marriage vows) is better than no marriage.
Buying a prostitute is not the same as plain old classic adultery(which is wrong enough). It is far worse-it is a crime against humanity. If she chooses to stay, she is showing her children that a family man can get away with such wickedness. Staying with the guy would set the worst example possible.

Devorah Shabtai
March 15, 2008 11:45 PM


Silda Wall Spitzer is a HARVARD DOORMAT who gave up her law career to be married to a billionaire (who probably knew that her husband was screwing around). The only thing she is upset about is the fact that her husband GOT CAUGHT AND WILL NO LONGER BE IN POLITICS. He intentionally married a SHIKSA-A GENTILE- Southern baptist believing that Jewish governor will get to the white house. Now that he will no longer be governor and be in politics CHANCES ARE THAT THEY WILL GET DIVORCED - HE DOESN'T NEED HER ANYMORE AND HE probably NEVER LOVED HER.

Devorah Shabtai

Carolynn Shea
March 16, 2008 7:56 AM

Mt perspective on this;::: is that Eliot Spitzer backs Hillary, so I think that Silda will (or perhaps already has been) contacted by Hillary Clinton. Maybe Hillary can give her some advice, she lived through it, so can Silda. (Then maybe Silda can run for the next presidency ~ Ha Ha) I would also like to tell everybody don't judge Silda, until you have been in her shoes. My husband has been cheating on me for over 14 years, and the woman (if you can call her that ~ and believe me I have better names than that)has stalked my family and my 2 young daughters. Her and her family follows me around like a hawk, and guess what? My husband defends her!! She even had the guts to come up to my face (with my daughters) and told us she is sleeping with their daddy. What a scank, now I had to explain to my kids, and told them to stay away from her(because I think she would even kidnap my girls just to have y husband) I am living the movie fatal attraction. BUt, I am still with him, and he denies everything, YA RIGHT, am I stupid or blind? NO, but, I am staying with him becasue I would do ANYTHING for my kids. They love their father tremendously and they are daddy's girls. I know it would kill them if I left, but,I am putting up with it until they are old enough to decide what they want, or until they reach of age. Yep, I may be the fool for sticking it out, but, if you are a good parent, you would do anything for your kids. I am suffering, and I have been beat down, but, I am NOT dead, so I just keep my eyes open, and go on. Am I happy? NO way,but, divorce is out of the question until they reach a good age. I will put my happiness on hold until they reach that point in life. And just to let you know I AM NOT cheating or retalating, I figure that God makes the final judgement call. He will handle ALL things in time. So what do you say we give Silda a little time to get her head on straight? BY golly she really needs it. But I will tell you the first thing I would advice her to do is to get tested for any STD's including HIV/AIDS, and NOT let him sleep in my bed. For I think she may need some counseling and the kids too. Give the family time to digest all of this, I am sure the kids are going through enough now that everyone in the world knows, (you all know how kids at school, and other activities will be crued and say jokes and rude things) I really feel sorry for Silda and the kids, I sure hope that they work things out, (one way or another).
But, I can tell you this we have NOT heard the last of this story ~~ there will be more dirt coming out about this family, just hang on and the story will continue.

Erica Charles
March 16, 2008 10:03 AM

I don't understand "The I did It For The Children Mentality" kids are not stupid. They see, hear and know everything that goes on in the household. They are the ones that have to go to school and face their peers and be humiliated. She has to do what is right for her. Staying would not be the right thing because obviously their relationship will never be the same. God Bless Her. Thank you

Sally
March 16, 2008 1:16 PM

I'm sorry, but I hate to think how the girls will view themselves when they realize how their father used women for his own personal satisfaction and that he had no respect for the marriage covenant. I wouldn't want my children to grow up in a household like that...better to be alone raising children than for them to see the father, the head of the household, treating women in such a manner.

davsmom
March 16, 2008 1:17 PM

Several years ago, a man called me to tell me his wife was having an affair with my hubby--having four young children, I confronted him--situation resolved and we are still together. But in the Spitzer case, she has supported him for many years in the life style he wanted, and I think their kids can now understand the issue at hand. This was not a short term thing--he even opened separate accounts to pay this girl--this was a premeditated issue-and the marriage needs some MAJOR REVISIONS or a division. This was a man who prosecuted the same type of folks when they were in his backyard--so he went to someone elses backyard to play.
I know Hilary dealt with her issues, but it was a relatively short term issue and we didn't see thousands of dollars change hands for it either. She too was in the major spotlight of the nation, and stood her ground.

Hope
March 16, 2008 2:17 PM

Hat OFF, Carolynn Shea! I am 110% with you. It is very hard what you have gone through and done your BEST for your daughters. I am so happy to see this type of caring family values to save the marriage for the sake of kids. GOD says "Do your best in the given circumstances and do not worry about the result. "I" will take care of your burden/trouble"
I feel sorry for Silda too and her three daughters. May GOD direct them to the path of peace and happiness. I wish everybody in the society think in terms of maintaining peace and healthy atmosphere in his/her married life and provide safe and secure environment to the kids.

Bella
March 16, 2008 3:11 PM

I find it remarkable how in our time a woman of such power and let's face the own's that call the shot's at home , still feel a MORAL obligation to a man that has publicy humiliated her by having an affair , not just an illicit affair, but one of such that it was a "Call Girl" that SCREAMS "sorry honey I needed that sleeze fix , you couldn't possibly deliver", one that has SLAPPED her hard in the face in the public eye.

So ok I make believe with her and I understand the idea of wanting to stay for the children's sake but if you believe that your out of your minds. It's simply saying "Screw you Eliot , I will continue to have my children and myself live accustomed to the lifestyle I have become comfortable in , and YOU WILL PAY FOR IT , or find a way . LMAO !!
yet she will look good doing so , and be the heroes of the middle class woman of America , and the church goers as well. So go get him honey , rake it in , and don't look back , and for God's sake , get yourself a thong , a slinky red dress, and have a romp , but by all means DONT DARE PAY FOR IT , You my dear are much too hot too have too!!! Rock on sista :P

shirley hurley
March 16, 2008 5:07 PM

leave what he done is no excuse she should find somebody to help with the kids and leave that s.o.b he showed that he dont love them by doing it but some mens are pigs they want more and that thing below [you know what i mean ]is hurting shame on him i hope she leave him

sandy
March 16, 2008 7:49 PM

ha Is here bussiness . They have it hard enough with all the media ,and they need time to sort out what they want to do .

sandy
March 16, 2008 7:51 PM

It Is there business,,, They have it hard enough with all the media ,and they need time to sort out what they want to do .

Gail
March 16, 2008 9:09 PM

I think she should leave him.Make him pay for all he has put her through.And speak up about her feelings and don't hold them in.Tell him where to go.

rasheem
March 16, 2008 11:41 PM

she knew what her husband was doing thats why she stayed by his side and did not leave because she isn't going to leave that money thats all i have to say about that because every woman has stayed nby there man just like Hillary Clintion staying by Bill Clinton

Dee
March 17, 2008 3:34 PM

The reason Hillary stayed by Bill is because they both know tons of dirt about each other. By staying married, they can never be forced to testify against each other. If they divorced, they would lose that protection. It is not honor or love or loyalty, but expediency that keeps them together.

El
March 17, 2008 8:22 PM

I think it is time America left their noses out of other people's bedrooms. He didn't win because he was good/bad in bed, he was deemed the best man for the job.

He did break the law, but the law needs to deal with it, not us, and his wife needs to deal with the bedroom situation, maybe as many couples do, they have problems there and frankly not all one person's fault.

Just my opinion :)

D.R.
March 20, 2008 12:50 PM

Come on. That is none of our business. It is stricly a marriage issue. Who are we to be getting into bed with other people like this.
Tisk, tisk. Stop it !!

Marion
March 21, 2008 7:11 PM

I agree with the article 100% because you would sacrifice just about anything for the sake of the children, Lord only knows. Elliot Spitzer has already done the damage & his wife is trying to retain a bit of dignity albeit a very small bit. May we all have mercy on their family & hope that we never have to find out if we would stand by our man no matter what...Thanks for the opportunity.

Miles Wentworth
March 22, 2008 3:10 AM

Turns out...Spitzer had just testified regarding the subprime meltdown, hours before they popped him with the girl. Some would say that this is no coincidence, that the lone guy going after the bad mortgage pimps on Wall St. gets silenced as soon as he goes public...

Margret
March 22, 2008 5:17 PM

Silda Spitzer is an adult and has the right to make her own decisions just like Hillary Clinton did. It would be extrmely inconsiderate of me to criticize her for her decision in this or any other matter. My philosophy is to live and let live. Imagine how much less pain there would be in this world if we all embraced and lived by this philosophy.

May there be peace!
Margret

Julie
April 30, 2008 10:03 AM

What about his teenage daughters. What message are his actions sending them about their own father objectifying and disrespecting women. Remember his oldest is 18 and his hired love interest 22!
What will this do to his daughter's ability to have a healthy relationships in the future. Selfish man!

3rdtimearound
May 19, 2008 3:13 AM

21 years ago I left my first husband. For reasons I was completely unaware of. I just knew I had to leave. I had 3 young children. I was tortured over the failure and yet could not reconcile at all. I wish for the sake of my children the marriage would have been reconcilable. I blamed myself for years for the pain and difficulty it brought my dear children. In so many ways I felt regret and felt so sad. It was only some time after I left that I realized he was mentally ill with no hope of recovery. Borderline personality disordered person without a shred of success in maintaining a relationship in the past 2 decades. My children have done well and are 3 successful young adults who unfortunately now have to come to grips with who their father is. At times I see small failing in them and deep inside myself I can't help but blame the failed marriage. Irrational or not, those old regretful feelings creep in. My advice, short of violent situatios, give your marriages a chance. I wish that I had been able to do it.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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