"U.S. of KKK-A"

Obama may be able to ignore this stuff now because in a Democratic nominating race it does not matter, but he'll pay for it in the fall.

do you get the idea that the Rev. Wright loves his country, or despises it?

When you talk about a degenerate society and say you want to move to an Orthodox commune because you believe the society is polluted, do you love your country or despise it? Because, the society you want to run away from because it is degenerate is America.

So, which is it. Do you love or hate America when you constantly talk about the societal decay?

I got a video about a two-faced baby in India who is being worshiped as a god. Unless this preacher's even weirder than I thought, I'm guessing a different link is in order.

It really has become a larger question related to the double edged sword of judgement on Obama's part hasn't it? His campaign points to his judgement over HRC's experience as a virtue.

In this case though, shouldn't we question the judgement of exposing one's children to rants about the US of KKK, vulgar descriptions from the pulpit of Bill Clinton's transgression and that the US invented the AIDS virus?

Rod, I know this is a blog, so opinion is to be expected.

I also realize that you see your role more as opinion-maker/cheerleader for 'your' side rather than as one having a more global/open perspective on political issues. (I think this impression is a fair one after reading your posts for several years.)

But do you really think the question you pose at the end of this post is one that deserves the bandwidth you're giving it along with other opinions of this cleric? I ask that in the context of what topics you've both included and excuded from your posts. Especially discussion of Obama's writings, which you seem to be quite resistant to reading or discussing -- 'The Audacity of Hope', to be specific.

Your post after hearing Obama speak was probably more revealing of your thinking: he COULD be the most effective leader of the left since FDR -- the Liberal Reagan, I believe you wrote.

Since that post you've put a lot of energy into finding any objection to Obama -- expecially those based not on what his positions or actions would indicate -- but on what can be fairly described as guilt by association.

So, do you 'our working boy' wish to place yourself in the tradition of discussing a candidate's positions and deeds or taking a more indirect, nebulous approach to dissing his character by raising doubts loudly and often?

If this cleric is such an evil influence on Obama, then where in Obama's words and actions is this infuence manifest? Isn't that a much more salient question. So, what's the answer? If "Obama is Wright is Obama", as another commenter wrote, shouldn't we be able to detect this in Obama's life. Or is this quite simply guilt by association reinforced by repetition and how-dare-he's among those who otherwise would have little good say about Obama anyway. Isn't this mostly reinfocing a dislike of Obama so one can feel better about not voting for him -- or perhaps a fulfilling of one's perceived duty to cheerlead for one side by demeaning the opposition?

I would be quite surprised if there's anything Obama can do that would suffice to close this issue in your mind and your weblog. My guess is that you have many, many more quotes to view with alarm. But this is more in the tradition of smear than civic discussion.

If you get the impression that I'm quite disappointed with you, you're right. You've shown yourself to have a good mind when you decide to apply it. But my impression gleaned over the years is that you thrive more by generating heat than by shining light. Is that really the role you want to fill?

Heck, I just started to expect more. Just sayin'.

It's always great to see the birth of a meme.

Agreed. In fact, just today, I saw someone refer to the eventual GOP nominee as "McSame."

Scott- I thought I had read most of Obama's speeches. In which one did he rant about the KKK?

I have been wondering why Rev. Wright is so angry. Is he just a bitter old man? He is old enough to have lived through whites only/segregation life. Is this residual from this time? Did he have a relative in the Tuskegee syphilis study (ended in 1972)? Did he lose or not get jobs because of his color? I am tired of innuendo and short film clips. It seems to me that some journalist ought to ask him about these issues if we are going to make his ideas important in this campaign. "one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all." Has Wright really not lived in this kind of country?

If we are going to be fair about this lets make up a column with Obama's associates with questionable character and Clinton's (ok this list may be too long) and McCain's.

OR, maybe we dont and ask ourselves if there is any real proof that the candidates have really been affected by those people. I know of no instances where Obama has has engaged in Wright's rhetoric or acted upon it during his time as a state legislator or senator. I know of no proof that McCain hates Catholics in word or deed.

Steve

The only "meme" being started here is your tiresome use of the word, Daniel. I say this as someone who voted for the man. Obama's a big boy, so he should be able to take criticism without wet nurses like you running interference. He's claimed this crank as a mentor. It's more than proper for Rod or anyone else to start questioning this stuff. If Obama is elected, this kook--and that's the nicest available label for Wright--will be given all sorts of credibility. I don't think that's a good thing, and I think Obama has a duty to come out HIMSELF and clearly delineate his differences with the good reverend in no uncertain terms. If doesn't have the decency to do that, then he certainly won't get my vote again, nor will I be writing him any checks.

If we are going to be fair about this lets make up a column with Obama's associates with questionable character...

For the umpteenth time, Wright is not just some "associate." Sen. Barack Obama has explicitly referred to him as a mentor, a deep influence on his life and views. Again, for the umpteenth time, Obama used the title of one of Wright's sermons for a book where he laid out his views--in rather slippery prose, at that.

Ask the Rev Wright why he's so angry? It's so much easier to assume that he hates America.

What are we supposed to take away from repeated refrains of "God Damn America"? Sorry, but love of country just doesn't come up.

It's, also, easier to get McSame(LOL, I love that)elected by associating Obama with an irrational black man.

The only person who associated Obama with Wright is Obama.

.The Senator says, "I disagree with what he said. Duh."

Yeah. I disagree with "God damn America". Duh. I disagree with giving Farrakhan a man-of-the-year award. Duh. I disagree with the whole "chickens coming home to roost" thing. Duh. I disagree with his cracking wise on the Jews. Duh. And on and on and on.

What exactly does Obama find worthy in guy, so worthy that he looks to him as a major influence on his life, since he keeps having to disagree so strongly with him? Why does he keep playing this game of drip, drip, drip, drip...?

Well, since I expect a post with "KKK" in the title is going to get a lot more hits than Rod's previous "crazy uncle" post, I'll re-post my comment on that thread over here:

Rod:

Have you heard this sermon from Rev. Wright, from Politico? It's the origin of the "audacity of hope" phrase, I believe.

Listening to this, I find myself sympathizing with the position that the vast majority of Rev. Wright's teachings are perfectly acceptable, mainstream black Protestant Christianity.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0308/A_Wright_sermon.html

I think most people will, like me, give Obama a pass on this. Some of Wright's preaching is obviously wrongheaded, but I don't see what it is that's getting folks so worked up about it. Wright's homily here sounds pretty downright crunchy. I suppose I'll get around to reading Obama's book sometime this election season, where I expect I'll find enough answers about his relationship with Wright to satisfy me.

I'm sure you realize that there are plenty of Orthodox Christian pastors who have made comments about race, or about Israel, that would be perceived as just as controversial as most of what Wright has said.

Bless,
Doug

Derek- You then think it is never justified to be angry at America? People on this blog sound really angry when they recount the one time they were passed over for a job because of affirmative action. Was Wright passed over many times? His family, friends or relatives? Was it his relatives involved in something like the syphilis trials? Would that be enough to make you see America differently? Has anybody asked Wright if he hates everything about the US? Why not?

Just for funsies, since this is the blogosphere, McCain voluntarily associated with a liar, thief and drug abuser. This person somehow avoided jail time. Do I really believe McCain condones/approves/accepts this kind of behavior? NO! There is nothing in his spech or behavior to suggest this, though if you are a fanatic Im sure you can twist something to fit. What has Obama said or done?

Steve

MI,

Your sarcasm meter is broken. I know what a meme is. I was just making fun of Daniel calling facts he doesn't find convenient memes as a way of trying to minimize them.

This is from the story. But he defended Rev. Wright's overall record, accusing ABC News of "cherry picking" statements of the man with a 40-year career.

We still don't know what the man might have said that caused Obama to stay for 20 years in this man's church. Maybe we can find the answer in Obama's book, "Audacity of Hope."

Rev Wright thinks that the government gives the black man drugs and then builds bigger prisons. I can't say that I agree with that statement, but I have noticed that the "War on Drugs" has seemed more about locking up the black man than it has about securing the borders to keep drugs from entering the country.

I'm torn between McCain and Obama myself, but am flabbergasted by the reaction of people to Wright. Don't you realize how unremarkable his statements are for a sizeable portion of Americans?

Why is this supposed to be comforting?

I'm floored that more people on this board don't get why people are upset about Wright.

Look, I've never voted for a Republican for President in my life, but I'm considering voting for John McCain this fall, unless I hear more from Obama that explains his association with a man I regard as a delusional crack-pot.

OK. I looked it up. Here's what Obama has to say about the black church in "Audacity of Hope" on pg 207-208.

And perhaps it was out of this intimate knowledge of hardship, the grounding of faith in struggle, that the historically back church offered me a second insight: that faith doesn't mean that you don't have doubts, or that you relinquish your hold on this world. Long before it became fashionable among television evangelists, the typical black sermon freely acknowledged that All Christians(including the pastors) could expect to still experience the same greed, resentment, lust, and anger that everyone else experienced.........You needed to come to church precisely because you were of this world, not apart from it: rich, poor, sinner, saved, you needed to embrace Christ precisely because you had sins to wash away.................(More of the same)But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side of Chicago, I felt God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and decdicated myself to discovering His truth."

According to Obama, his membership in the black church had nothing to do with anger. It had to do with washing away his sins and reconciling himself to God.

Yeah, watsy, that's the political side of the story. Now read the story he wrote before he decided to run for office:

Quotes From Steve Sailer's collection:
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2008/01/trumpet-gala-2007.html

I added the ellipses, but the bracketed comments are Sailer's.

"The title of Reverend Wright's sermon that morning was 'The Audacity of Hope.' He began with a passage from the Book of Samuel ... As I watched and listened from my seat, I began to hear all the notes from the past three years swirl about me. The courage and fear of Ruby and Will. The race pride and anger of men like Rafiq [a Black Muslim]. The desire to let go, the desire to escape, the desire to give oneself up to a God that could somehow put a floor on despair..."

"...And in that single note -- hope! -- I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion's den, Ezekiel's field of dry bones. These stories -- of survival, and freedom, and hope -- became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black... And if a part of me continued to feel that this Sunday communion sometimes simplified our condition, that it could sometimes disguise or suppress the very real conflicts among us [Obama is referring to an earlier discussion of class conflicts among blacks within black churches here -- the "us" does not include nonblack human beings, such as, say, his mother, sister, and maternal grandparents] and would fulfill its promise only through action [i.e., politics], I also felt for the first time how that spirit carried within it, nascent, incomplete, the possibility of moving beyond our narrow dreams."

As Sailer correctly concludes:

"To be crass about it, this strikes me not as a religious conversion but as the moment when Obama finally feels Black Enough."

Look, I've never voted for a Republican for President in my life, but I'm considering voting for John McCain this fall, unless I hear more from Obama that explains his association with a man I regard as a delusional crack-pot.

If you are prepared to vote for McCain over this, ma'am, then you deserve exactly what you get if McCain is the first Republican you ever vote for. Please do more research than what you read on a conservative blog and consider--in the whole range of issues that matter--whether what a guy's minister says is more important than war, economics, torture, and health care.

On a whole range of issues, I'm not sure I agree with Obama's positions, but I will evaluate them before I make a final decision. As I've said elsewhere, McCain and Hillary Clinton both strike me as flawed adults. I'd infinitely prefer to have a flawed adult in the presidency to someone who promises the moon and can't possibly deliver it.

ROFLMAO!!

Libs crack me up!