Boston, baptism and abortion

This whole discussion is sad. We go around and around and
never come to conclusions. Why do most abortions happen?
Idiot males have pre-marital sex with women. They become
pregnant and want a solution to their "problem" (another
human life being the problem). PP offers a quick and easy
"fix". No responsibility for your actions necessary.
Is it that hard to not have sexual intercourse before being
married? Is it impossible today?

And also, I just can't believe lack of availability of
contraception is the problem. Is it? Maybe I'm wrong.
Is it lack of education? Really??

Is it every "wrong" to have an abortion? Is it ever
"too late" in a pregnancy where it is wrong to have one?
When? Please, pro-choicers, tell me.

How hard is it to realize that regardless of what you
call "it" (him or her) -- what is killed during an abortion
is a LIVING "thing". It is alive, growing, struggling.
A living thing is killed, terminated, whatever you wish to
call.

This whole thing is just downright heartbreaking.
Behold the fruits of sexual "freedom"...

"each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary"

(even if not by our birth parents)

I agree with Charles Cosimano that "It's a fight that is already lost."

Nonsensical rhetoric like "If Obama wins, pro-life gets criminalized." doesn't help convince people either.

I also agree with Chalres C that "there is a major credibility problem with the pro-life movement which has made it impossible for it to succeed", but it's not that "The spokesfolk for it tend to be pretty yucky, nutty and generally unappealing"; it's that they'r ehypocritical. They tend largely to suppport the death penalty, which is why they get labelled the "so-called pro-life movement".

MDavid put it this way: "The "pro-life" label is not a "movement" or a single body of people. It is merely those who want to outlaw killing the unborn." This may be true as far as it goes, but after theyr'e born, they tend not to give a rat's patootie about the human beings that get born and then abused, discarded, abandoned, unloved. And, to add to MDavid's post, outlawing abortions seems to be the ONLY "pro-life" thing about them. Support for the war? Support for the death penalty? I'd bet it's higher among the soi-disant "pro-life" group which simply goes to show they are only selectively "pro-life".

As for Reaganite in NYC's contention that, "In truth, the argument against birth control preceded the one against abortion. The former has to do with the unnatural disconnect between sexuality and the creation of human life." What a crock! The "former" (i.e. birth control) is not diconnected at all let alone "unnatural[ly]" from sexuality and makin' babies - people USE it when they don't WANT to make a baby. DUH!

re his "seeing sexual relations as a good when divorced from openness to life", the difficulty is some people see sex as ONLY good when it is open to creating a new life, and others see it as good even when it isn't. And your side doesn't get to decide for others and you really seem to hate that fact.

Erin Manning, you said you are "a person who understands that biologically speaking the life of a unique human individual begins at conception". Shouldn't that be "a person who BELIEVES" that? Others certainly disagree with your "understanding", and believe that life begins at birth. Yet others believe it begins when blood begins to be created and circulated within the fetus's bod. And even though you would "prefer our laws to recognize that fact", since it ain't a "fact", I'm sure glad they don't. If your side would allow the free distribution and use of contraceptions, a lot of this would be moot.

"The problem for many pro-abortion individuals"... I know of NO SUCH INDIVIDUAL. I know plenty of pro-choice people, but I have never heard a single solitary soul say "Hey, ya know, abortion is good. Terrific even, and i think ALL people should have one. Or two!" THAT would be "pro-abortion". Most of us take it far more seriously than that, and would prefer people be allowed to make their own choice apart from your particular beliefs.

if im talking to christians then they understand that etirnity is in their future correct? so what do you think a meciful God would do with a dead fetus? as christians we know the answer to that question is a good one but that still doesnt give people the right to kill someone liveing inside them.

if im talking to non christians then you dont really care or believe in the one true God right? so whats your argument that a fetus isnt a life yet? so what evidence would you use to proove that the fetus is still not yet alive? scientific evidence prooves that the fetus has a heart beat. so what happens when an old persons heart stops? they die. so when you stop a fetuses heart they die. your commiting murder. let me ask you this do you think a person that was a vegtable would rather die or get better and live the rest of there lives? its the same question just presented in a diffrent way.