I was thinking what a foolish blunder it was for Bush to have pushed for NATO membership for Ukraine and Georgia. Just how long do we think we can poke the Russian bear and get away with it? Does Bush really think that the American people would be willing to send soldiers to carry out a shooting war with Russia over Ukraine? (Well, maybe they would: after all, these are other people's sons and daughters). Then I read Bill Lind's piece about how past Balkan and Eastern European history plays into the current situation, and this ceased to be for me something to be merely annoyed at. Read it yourself, and see if you don't think that the US foreign policy establishment, on a bipartisan basis, is stumbling into a wider war. Excerpt:
Never content to see a fire without pouring gasoline on it, the Bush administration promptly recognized the new “state” of Kosovo, as did some forgetful European countries. Russia, which may remember history too well, responded by announcing its support for Serbia. Within a week, Kosovo’s unilateral declaration of independence and the Great Powers’ response to it had set the stage for a classic 19th-century Balkan crisis. A few old fogies may recall that the last such crisis, in the summer of 1914, led to a certain amount of unpleasantness, not entirely contained within Balkan boundaries.[snip]
Here we come to that fateful tendency of Balkan history to spill over. The question, as always in Balkan crises, is what will Russia do?When NATO bombed Serbia in the 1990s, Russia was too weak to respond. That is no longer the case. The Russian economy is doing well, flush with petrodollars. Russia’s military, while still somewhat ragged, is in far better condition now than it was then. Most critically, the boozy, corrupt Yeltsin has been replaced by the new Man of Steel, Vladimir Putin. The results of the recent Russian presidential election, where Putin’s handpicked successor won with 70 percent of the vote, show that he has the Russian people behind him.
Russia’s relationship to events in the Balkans in fact serves as a barometer of her strength. When Russia is weak, she has to stand by helplessly as her Balkan friends—Serbia heads the list—are defeated and she is humiliated. When she is strong, and when her government wants to look strong at home as well as abroad, she brooks no such treatment. More than once, events in the Balkans have led Russia to go to war.
At this point the ghost of 1914 rises, not as wisps of vapor but like Il Commendatore. Can Washington see it? Probably not. In the middle of the Clinton administration’s Balkan war, I asked an American four-star general who was in most of the key meetings, “Don’t our people know the history of this region?” He replied, “They know the history, but they don’t think it applies to them.” Nothing blinds like hubris.
Here is how events might play out on a 1914 model...
As Larison points out, historically blind adventurism of this sort is bipartisan. And Steve Chapman says that while the presidential candidates would no doubt handle Iraq differently, the song otherwise remains the same:
But it's worth remembering what helped to get us into Iraq: a bipartisan consensus on foreign policy that favors U.S. military intervention abroad whenever we may be able to accomplish something that looks appealing. That was our national approach under the past three presidents, and it's a safe bet it will be our approach under the next one.

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I could see Russian ASATs causing us some difficulty, particularly as the military becomes more GPS-dependent.
As for nukes...I read a while back that Russia views tactical nukes as a way to compensate for the weakness of its conventional forces. Americans tend to see a clear demarcation between conventional & nuclear; it's not so clear, however, whether Russia would view things the same way.
Say the US military sweeps Russian conventional forces from the field. Then Russia nukes the US armored divisions spearheading the attack. Will we nuke Russian military bases _on Russian soil_ in retaliation? Will we risk trading NYC for St. Petersburg in order to defend Georgia & Ukraine?
"If you believe we do, please deign to explain why US soldiers should fight for Georgian sovereignty against Russia"
They won't have to. You are scaremongering suggesting that. And I don't think you should be able to say that unchallenged when it could actually sway views.
As I pointed out in the original post, these same arguments against expanding NATO were applied previously to countries such as the Baltic states that were "until recently, part of the Soviet Empire." Russia didn't go to war over those countries and there is no reason to believe that Russia will go to war over Georgia or Ukraine. Russia certainly hasn't said that. Without pointing to anything that counters this, to state that U.S. soldiers are likely to have to fight and die to defend Georgian or Ukrainian sovereignty is scaremongering. Georgia isn't Iraq.
And I find it disgusting because it is another example of encouraging people to look up to the U.S. or the West or Christendom only to abandon them precisely at the point at which having the moral courage to stand with them may actually make a difference. For all your talk about being a Christian or standing up for Western values, where is the moral courage? You want a rational discussion about war and U.S. interests, then explain to me when you are actually willing to risk war. Do we only stand with other nations when they don't need our help? How would that encourage other nations to trust us?
I thought NATO was a mutual defence pact? If you don't plan on defending Georgia you probably shouldn't push on having them join. That doesn't mean you will have to. Same as sex,if you aren't willing to have a baby you should have sex. You can make it very unlikely to happen but there is always a chance.
Obviously that should be shouldn't have sex.
to state that U.S. soldiers are likely to have to fight and die to defend Georgian or Ukrainian sovereignty is scaremongering.
So let me get this straight: A key argument for extending a mutual-defense pledge to Georgia & Ukraine is that we'll never actually have to end up fulfilling that pledge. How trustworthy is a nation that promises to do something when it has no intention of actually fulfilling that promise?
Arguing that Russia will never go to war over these countries is beside the point. Set aside the fact that intentions can change over time. The key question isn't whether Russia would ever attack these countries, but rather whether we're prepared to defend them in the event that such an attack, however improbable, does in fact occur.
NATO isn't just a nation-states' country club; it's a mutual defense pact which treats an attack on one member as an attack on all. Admitting a nation into this "club" means we're willing & able to defend them as if their soil was our own. If we aren't, in fact, willing and able to do this for a given country, we shouldn't be promising otherwise by letting them into this "club". Moral implications aside, making promises one is unprepared to keep tends to seriously undermine one's credibility.
So if Georgia & Ukraine join NATO, we must be prepared to defend them from attack - even if we never end up actually having to do so. If we aren't willing & able to do so, then we shouldn't be offering them NATO membership.
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