Ostrov (The Island)

Just watched Ostrov again last night with some friends. It is a very good movie, very convicting for us all. Did you hear the story about the lead actor, the former rock star?

...the teleological suspension of the ethical.... Ok, that does it, I'm going to read some Kierkegaard.

The original holy fool must have been Abraham, taking his son Isaac for sacrifice at God's request. It is to my mind the most bizarre story in the Bible (which takes some doing, admittedly).

Ay yi yi.

Abraham, the father, offers up his son, Isaac. Isaac willingly allows his father to do this (he doesn't struggle). Isaac even bears the wood for the sacrifice.

Do you mean you don't understand what this is referring to?

The death of Christ is also a bizarre story. I hear that from my non-Christian friends all the time. "Why would God torture and kill a man, much less His Son, for my sins? It doesn't make sense." But that bizarre story is our salvation.

Why does God accept Abel's offering (animal) but reject Cain's offering (vegetable)? Because God accepts certain offerings, and rejects others. There has to be blood for sin.

The fact that Abraham was faithful to God's speaking, and offered up his son Isaac, allowed him to be the "father of faith" to Jews and Christians. And Isaac's faithfulness to his father's will allowed him to inherit all the riches of his father.

I realize, literally speaking, that it is a bizarre story. But I don't know how you can call it "bizarre" when you see what it points to. It's like calling the virgin birth "bizarre," or the resurrection "bizarre." No, it's not bizarre, it makes perfect sense.

Thanks for the recommendation -- looking forward to watching it. Images of holy fools have haunted me for about a decade -- Hans urs von Balthasar has an excellent study of the holy fool in his Glory of the Lord Vol 5 -- he looks at their treatment in art and literature -- Prince Myshkin, Don Quixote, etc. But does anyone know of another book that helps explain or examines the holy fool? I'm still at a complete loss about what's going on. Kind of like an icon -- I know I'm getting a glimpse of the divine, but I just stammer when I try to say anything more than, "That is of God." (I guess that's the point.)

anoncritic: No, it's not bizarre, it makes perfect sense.

Certum est quia impossibile? The Tertullianists yet abound.

Ambrose was one of the forerunners of allegorical exegesis. I'm not sure what allegory he made of the Abraham fable but I can tell you that from a socio-political point of view it is nothing more than a myth purporting to explain the prevalence of circumcision among the Semites.

Even more bizarre is the story of old Abe's nephew, replete with a town full of militant buggers, a father offering his virgin daughters for gang rape, a wrathful sky-god with an extra canister or two of chemical weapons, a wife so overcome with nostalgia she crystallized into a pillar of salt, and the daughters' uproarious revenge by getting Dad shikker and boinking him (mirabile factu, Lot old boy, hats off!).

If you've ever read any of the Talmud, you can just see a group of elders sitting around of a Saturday night trying to outdo each other with the most preposterous tall tales. It's too bad the scrolls don't contain the musical score, the libretto is worthy of opera buffa.

Roland, thanks for mocking us. It proves Paul was right:

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[c]
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

2) The Orthodox Jewish reading of Genesis 22:8 punctuates the sentence differently than e.g. the KJV or RSV. Here's how they read it. When Isaac asks where's the burnt offering, Abraham replies to him: "God himself will provide the lamb. The burnt offering is my son. And the two of them went on together."

The Jewish translators of the LXX didn't seem to understand it that way.

BrianF:

I don't see how Roland's comments can be rebutted with Paul's comments in I Corinthians. Paul is discussing the message of Christ crucified, not the stories of Abraham and Isaac or Lot and Sodom and Gomorrah. Paul's putdown of those who don't believe the message of the Cross doesn't have anything to do with the two accounts that Roland wrote about, nor is he ridiculing those who look askew at those two OT incidents. God rendered the wisdom of the world foolish via the cross, not by giving a test on how to interpret the stories of Abraham and Isaac and Lot.

If the LXX had meant to put "my son" in apposition to holokarpôsin, instead of as a vocative, it would have read "to teknon mou," IMO, and not simply "teknon" (though I suppose "to teknon mou" could also be understood to mean "my son/child," though probably without the article "to"). Abraham had just used "teknon" in a vocative sense in 22:7. In Luke 15:31 in the story of the Prodigal Son, the father simply says "teknon," and there it's vocative.

Eric W: Yes, as the Romans used to say - you have touched the thing with a needle - which is more, errr, acute, than hitting the nail on the head! And you are right about the omitting the article, I think. I am reminded of Suetonius who quotes Caesar's last words as "kai su, teknon" which is Latinised as "tu quoque, mi fili." It is at this point that I would like to fulfill one of my "bucket" wishes - learning Hebrew, so I'd be in a better position to understand the original.

BrianF: I am sorry you insist on making yourself the center of the discussion. My comments on reason, faith and gullibility were general and not specific to you. What was specific to you was the fallacious argument that Paul somehow has some relevance to the Abraham myth.

To answer your valid second point: human wisdom may fail in the face of the divine, but it's all we've got. And that is evidently God's intention, so we may as well make the best of it and use it.

And I am not qualified to say whether Paul is a heretic; I however can and will point out where I see inconsistencies in the NT. And, yes, I think the historicity of a good portion of the OT is moot.

I am not advocating any specific religion, certainly not one loosely based on Christianity. There are enough cults loosely based on Christianity already. And I very much doubt whether Christ would approve any of them.

jgdc,

"Godric: A Novel" by Frederick Buechner. Check out the reviews on Amazon.

The book begins, "Five friends I had, and two of them snakes..."

I was thinking about Breaking Waves. Not so sure how having sexual relations with a series of strangers fits in well with the idea of innocence and healing? Or the teleological suspension of the ethical. Shy people and paraplegics are getting away with way too much there I'd say. I don't think prayer could do anything but help. But it does look like a good film, quite wind swept and heart-breakingly romantic like a beautiful but sad dream.

I actually had to defend 'Fear and Trembling' in oral arguments to get my BA. Talk about pressure. Grilled by a group of 3 deadly serious faces on 6 Great Books for what seemed like 2 hours OR an eternity! [Pass=BA, Fail= Sorry mom no degree. Ghostly pale seniors wandering the hallways and coffeeshop mumbling incomprehensively, tales of brilliant people blanking, failing ... just a crazy time. But I digress.]

If I remember correctly the idea in Kierkegaard's interpretation of the biblical story, Is that - we need to listen for the voice of God and obey it no matter what. Straight up. No matter how nonsensical it may seem, easy or hard, we need to trust that he will care for us. In the OT, God will test us, if that's what's best. But we need to act only in the way God directs us to act. And by obeying God and being willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, Abraham was blessed and became the father of the nations. (Just realized that's a great analogy for modern fathers to meditate on. One that our nation seems to be completely disregarding, BTW.)

The real question then becomes how could Abraham be certain that such a crazy request really was from God? And that it wasn't just his own imagining. To be willing to sacrifice his own child, he had to be willing to put God before all other things that he dearly loved. To be willing to make an incomprehensible sacrifice.

And then looking at the face of God, WHY and How could a God who loved Abraham ask him to do such a thing? Unanswerable really. Although Kierkegaard tried but I believe he landed in a region of despair and doubt that I don't recommend joining him in. I ended up questioning K's interpretations but never really came up with a better one on my own. Mystery. Faith. Putting everything we most love on the sacrificial altar. Detachment. Trust. Those are the themes that stuck.

'Make every thought captive to Christ' is a really tough proposition. But since thoughts direct actions, and actions lead to life or to death, it's the only way to fall completely into the center of God's Will. Where we need to be. Now if we could just learn to always WANT to be there. Then we'd really be all set wouldn't we? :)

The hopeful part of the story is that once Abraham showed that he was completely willing to make the sacrifice, go through with the sacrifice God required. God relented! He didn't have to do it! That was truly great. An abundant blessing. More children than stars in the sky or grains of sand by the shore. So maybe we should prepare our hearts and give them and what we love most to God like Abraham gave Isaac. And let God save us (or not)how and when He chooses.

Rod, Wow. Never thought I'd need Kierkegaard again. This actually really helped me. A great teaching moment. Thanks. :)

Pax

Brad in KY -- thanks for the recommendation and thank God for St Vlad's press.

MM -- I've been meaning to read Buechner for quite awhile now -- thanks for the excuse to get the book.

Hi Mary,
I think Fr Anatoly found true peace and joy when he realized he didn't murder his captain, and he discovered the captain had forgiven him long ago. It was God's answer to his tortured prayers. The Lord could indeed dismiss His servant Anatoly in peace (Luke 2:29).

I'm not Roger Ebert, but I wish I could play him on TV.
John

But see, if not for his torment over his sin, Father Anatoly would not have lived a life of intensely ascetical penance, and he might not have developed the theosis that enabled him to be such a help to others. Notice that the people didn't come to the other monks for help; they came to the crazy old staretz. I believe that God used Anatoly's burden as a way to save others -- including Tikhon's daughter. And that is what Anatoly realized at the end. When his work had been done, it was time to die.

> I agree with you, Rod, that this may indeed be part of
> the plot device, but I think it reflects poorly on
> Orthodoxy and on the Gospel.

Hi Eric,
Really?
I'm not sure what you're expecting.

When somebody starts telling me, "I used to be , but now Jesus made me ," I start checking out mentally. I don't buy magical conversion stories from ***anybody.*** They just don't ring true to me.

But YMMV.

Far more plausible to me are stories of people who sweat blood to find grace e.g. the oddball characters in Flannery O'Connor short stories or the mysterious visitor in Brothers Karamazov, or for that matter, Fr Zossima himself.

John

from Rod:
But see, if not for his torment over his sin, Father Anatoly would not have lived a life of intensely ascetical penance, and he might not have developed the theosis that enabled him to be such a help to others. Notice that the people didn't come to the other monks for help; they came to the crazy old staretz. I believe that God used Anatoly's burden as a way to save others -- including Tikhon's daughter. And that is what Anatoly realized at the end. When his work had been done, it was time to die.

But those Elders whose works I have read (St. Silouan, Elder Sophrony, Elder Paisios, etc), though they spent a lifetime in true repentance, yet they knew the joy of Christ. All I'm saying is that Father Anatoly did not seem to reflect that joy - even at his death. I believe that is a flaw in the way the character was written/portrayed.