The children of Hamas

Yup. As CS Lewis says, "Sometimes the only way to restrain a man is by killing him." But it's a last resort, I think, when diplomacy and cultural initiatives have failed. That said, we need to be ready for it.

Clearly, Hamas must be destoyed - even down to the last child.

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April Fools!
Posted by: meh | April 1, 2008 12:44 PM
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You're suggesting Rod was being intentionally ironic in his last paragraph?

"You're suggesting Rod was being intentionally ironic in his last paragraph?"

I think he's going to wait for their kids to grow up before fighting them. I thought you were employing a reductio ad absurdum. Now Hamas, on the other hand, I think they are willing to fight the Jews down to the last child. I just get that impression.

Whatever happened to M_David? He would be reminding us of the contrast among the birth rates of Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs right about now...

I still feel your love, John E.

I am sickened when I see the little children parading in the streets in those green headbands reserved for "martyrs" - suicide bombers. This is a reference to the ACTUAL children Iran used as mine clearers during the Iran-Iraq war (and the main reason I never never want to go to war with Iran.)

I've seen photos of little ones no older than two in that garb. I UNDERSTAND the Palestinian desire and need for national autonomy or at least suffrage. It is not the fault of the people that workable deals were rejected again and again by their politicians - they deserve a say in their lives and some dignity. But by inculcating violence in each generation of children they guarantee that that generation will never see peace, or freedom. They can't win this thing by fighting, if that makes any sense. Israel's reaction to any violence is to dig in even harder.

As for fighting them - I would say we refuse to. Hamas has never targeted our soil. Their target is Israel. Until they target us, at home, let them scream and taunt. We have enough on our hands without engaging an enemy who would utilize suicidal pre-teens in some Holy War in response.

When Yitzak Rabin was assassinated, I saw an interview with a Hamas spokesperson in which he was so gleeful about this murder that I realized that there will never be any reasoning with Hamas. We can only hope to reduce the influence of Hamas, not by violence, but by changing circumstances so much that the organization becomes irrelevant.

You might have a point, Octagon, if I said that all Palestinians are Hamas. They aren't. I judge Hamas by what Hamas says and does. The failure to do so will get innocent people who ought to be protected killed. You would prefer to pretend that they're something they're not, maybe?

mdavid - heh! Sounds like a lot of projects there! I've been fortifying my place to resist zombie attacks and killer robots, myself.

Thanks for responding, Mr. Dreher.

Happily, I see no sign that Israel is at risk of capitulating to Hamas, or of failing to take the threat from them seriously.

I'm not persuaded that Israel's current actions towards the occupied territories (that's just the first term that came to mind! All readers, please substitute your own preferred term if that one is politically incorrect, I really don't know!) are well calculated to minimize Hamas's influence, though. Not that that excuses their actions.

"Only killing" didn't stop the Evil Empire itself, so maybe that isn't the best way out of all situations.

The U.S. has defended Kurds, Iraqis, Bosnians, Afghanis, Kuwaitis. We have defended or pledged to defend South Korea, Japan, and other Asian Countries. We have pledged or defended many European countries. God forbid we ever defend Jews. As far as I know, Israel has never asked Americans to die for it. Yet, some people seem very quick to make sure that would never happen. As an American, I hope the U.S. never has to defend anyone, even Israel. As a Jew, I understand how Israelis feel. Jews have a long history of knowing what it's like to be on their own. Hamas preaches hatred of all Jews. We know what that might mean, even if people of other faiths don't.

The U.S. has defended Kurds, Iraqis, Bosnians, Afghanis, Kuwaitis. We have defended or pledged to defend South Korea, Japan, and other Asian Countries. We have pledged or defended many European countries. God forbid we ever defend Jews.

Let's see. How about WWI, WWII, Lebanon in 1956 and the 80s, Gulf War 2 where we are essentially doing Israel's dirty work for them.

Let's not of course forget the hundreds of sailors who died in the attack on the USS Liberty. Oh yeah, that's right. They were KILLED BY ISRAELIS.

"The role of the President of the United States is to support the decisions that are made by the people of Israel"
Ann Lewis-Senior Advisor Hillary Clinton for President

Of course, this isn't something the corporate media want to discuss, isn't it Rod?

V

You don't perchance work at Wolfram & Hart, do you?

I think this may be more of a job for the Halliwells.

Don,

This Jew seconds your statement.

There is no negotiating with Hamas, no making peace with them. Only fighting. and killing.

Wow, what a Christian sentiment that is.

Hamas was fairly elected as the representatives of the Palestinian people. That is sad, it represents a failure, but it is just as much an Israeli as a Palestinian failure. It has a great deal to do with Israeli behavior toward the Palestinians for decades.

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John E - You don't perchance work at Wolfram & Hart, do you?
Posted by: MI | April 1, 2008 4:29 PM
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Naw, I just really don't like zombies or killer robots.

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Can a robot become a zombie?
Posted by: Max Schadenfreude | April 1, 2008 9:27 PM
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Great, something else for me to worry about!

Well, I hesitate to throw my 2 cents in here. Might as well pee into the cyclone again, can't help myself.

It seems to me that Hamas' extremism aside, very few Americans (let alone American Jews or Evangelical Christians) have actually tried to inhabit the existential space of the average Palestinian. Imagine living in Gaza or the West Bank, putting up with IDF indignities (like Israeli Tanks plowing down your streets at will, Israeli F-16s and Apaches assassinating Hamas operatives while taking dozens of bystanders with them, all while remembering the ancestral village, or hearing your parents and grandparents talk of the ancestral village, now an empty field or subdivision outside Tel Aviv or Jerusalem..)

I have no love for Hamas, and would take up arms against them in a second if they ever directly attacked the United States. But I understand why they are in power. The wonder is that there are any Palestinian moderates left.

It is just this lack of compassion and imagination that undermines our Middle East policy. If we can't sympathize with the average Arab (and this thread, like most American discussions of the situation reveals that we really rarely do) then the violence will continue, and become worse. Israeli policy, supported by US policy, is self defeating.

Five million Israelis and a desultory American public (who can't seem to pay attention or read enough history to discern the differance a Kurd, Turk, Persian and Arab, or between a Sunni and a Shiite - quick, is Hamas Shiite, is Hezb' Allah Sunni, or is the other way around? Right.. Sure.) will not defeat 190 million Arabs and a Billion an Quarter Muslims. Not if we continue our current tack, not if we continue demonizing them, and ignoring their rights, flying in the face of all empathy, justice and mercy.

But whatever. Carry on. Iraq was behind 9/11. The Pakistanis and Saudis really are our friends. That's right.. Here's your nighty night story & bedtime snack, America. Keep on keepin' it real.

These children will grow up to be like the fanatics who are suicide-bombing innocents right now. Can someone grow out of such brainwashing? Do the current crop of fanatics grow out of such thinking when they get into their late-thirties, say (assuming they've survived that long, of course)? Do they ever trade in their AK's and rage for a letter to the editor? In other words, does age mellow them at all?

To: Israelis & Palestinians
From: USA
Date: XX/XX/XXXX
Re: Your territorial dispute

Synopsis: Give war a chance. Both sides take the gloves off, and have at it. Last man standing takes all. No more subsidies, but weapons are available to each of you on a cash-and-carry basis. Ditto sympathy (at least from some parts of our populace). Have a nice war.