Has SWPL been reading my comboxes?
From the Stuff White People Like blog, a new entry: "Being Offended." Excerpt: To be offended is usually a rather unpleasant experience, one that can expose a person to intolerance, cultural misunderstandings, and even evoke the scars of the past....
Wonderful comments on that blog, Rod. If they are an example of who that writer is trying to reach, I think we can disregard pretty much anything posted there. The comment blocks pretty much negate any points made in the post.
Being *offended* on behalf of the approved recipients of "tolerance," so that one may in turn behave *offensively* toward those who are accused -- rightly or wrongly -- of being "intolerant," is what being "white" -- in this particular sense -- is all about. And, needless to say, those accused of being "intolerant" -- rightly or not -- are not themselves allowed to be offended by being thus accused, such offense being taken as a sign *not* of the accuser's own intolerance, but rather as *further* sign of the offensive nature of the person accused.
Looks more like Stuff White Liberals Like.
Er, that's kind of the point.
I notice that they have a book coming out. When a self righteous white person pulls this crap on you, give them the book.
Looks more like Stuff White Liberals Like.
While that's true, the conservatives here do an amazing job of being offended. Our host wears his one brush with alleged intolerance like a badge of honor. Others are prepared to declare civil war over alleged attacks on their faith and politics. Comments about Southerners, Midwesterners, Christians are all taken as personal slaps and offenses. People take personal offense when asked not to use inflammatory language towards minorities or affirm diversity efforts.
The days when Conservatives refused to be victims is long long gone. The conservative movement (and especially social conservatives) have turned into one big victim-identity class.
Well, there is one group of white people who are never offended on behalf of anyone but themselves--white right-wing Christians. So I guess they won't be in the book. I hope that won't offend them.
I'm really conservative, but I shop at the farmers market and I am wearing new balance sneakers right now.
This website is amazing.
Gosh Daniel, when people make insulting comments about me, my color, my faith, my reigion of the country, my friends, my political beliefs or my gender, you would suggest that I do what?
Posted by: Arthur Andrews | May 30, 2008 9:43 AM
If you were trying to define political correctness, that was a darn fine job.
By the way Daniel, diversity of what?
Thanks, Joe. I aim to please.
It's wonderful that conservatives never get offended and don't do things like those awful liberals do. Well, except for those controversies about flag lapel pins, people saying they weren't proud of America at least since they were a fertilized egg, people listening to others critizing America and now apparently people wearing jihadist scarves while drinking Dunkin' Donuts coffee. It's no wonder they're so superior. LOL.
Daniel,
Is there anything in the premise of this blog with which you agree? Do you adhere to either the conservative or the crunchy side of life? Are you a Christian? What is it that attracts you to this blog? I'm truly interested, because you seem to post only negative, critical commentary on what Rod has to say. A lot of it borders on nitpicking too. Rod makes a broad point, in the process of doing so he makes an over-the-top statement or uses a little hyperbole, and you jump on that while ignoring the broader point.
I'm not saying criticism is inherently bad. I don't agree with some of what Rod writes either and sometimes I say so. But there doesn't seem to be many instances in which you want to engage Rod or other commenters other than to criticize what they've written.
Take Mrs. Sig, for example. (Forgive me for drawing you into this Sig.) She and Rod disagree on some big things, but she also comments on things she does in her personal life as a Christian that relate to what Rod's trying to do with the whole "crunchy" thing. She can be cutting at times, but also contributes positively to the commentary that goes on here.
What is your purpose in reading this blog and commenting here? Think about it.
I had a very surreal moment once back when I was interning at a small, very lefty newspaper in Boston back in the early '90s. My editor told me to change "black people" to "African Americans" in a story I was working on since that was the new, appropriate term. The weird thing was, she was white and I was black. However, since she was the boss I made the change.
Have never liked the term "African American." For one thing, I can trace my earliest ancestor to 1807, so that makes me plain old 'American' in my book. Hyphenated nothing. Secondly, it doesn't roll off the tongue too easily.
A kindred (and much older) site to SWPL is http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com
I work in the London office of an American company. Every so often, I get the chance to hear newly-arrived American employees saying things like, "I left the work with your colleague earlier, the African-American woman...er...." and just then it crosses their minds that the woman is not American, but they just can't bring themselves to say "black".
Eric K, wrote to Daniel: But there doesn't seem to be many instances in which you want to engage Rod or other commenters other than to criticize what they've written...What is your purpose in reading this blog and commenting here?
Eric, I am not Daniel, but I will say this. I don't always agree with Rod either...or with many of the things said here. But, I thought the purpose of engagement was to have a pro and con discussion. Rod takes things he agrees with or doesn't and then makes comments on them...putting them up for discussion, I thought. If you read my earlier comment on today's post, I point out that conservatives seem to do the same thing. That doesn't negate some of the points of Rod's post, but if points out, I thought in a funny way, that everyone seems to be offended by some things and willing to voice that discontent. Now, if the purpose is to only have people you agree with post, I apologize. Speaking for myself, I read the blog to see what people think and I comment to try to present another viewpoint.
What is your purpose in reading this blog and commenting here? Think about it.
Hey, I contributed my love of Micheladas and Palomas.
I contributed to Beliefnet before Rod came along and will continue to once he's gone. He makes an interesting contribution to this website and I'm actually quite intrigued by a lot of what he has to say. There are many posts I don't participate in because either I agree with him (and Rod already has a large Amen chorus) or I have nothing to add. And despite what some people would suggest, I am a Christian and committed Catholic.
But Rod is controversial and provocative. Which means he is going to attract people who disagree with him, as well as an army of acolytes and disciples. So I see commenting on a blog as a way of countering the echo chamber effect which happens on both conservative and liberal blogs.
When there are substantive posts, I try to make substantive comments. In snarky posts--like this one--it is bound to attract snarkier comments.
gmo - Obviously I don't think that the purpose of the blog is to only have people who agree with you post on it. I said as much in my comment to Daniel. I'm not sure why you think otherwise. My question to Daniel was about why practically all his posts are criticisms, and usually nitpicky ones more about Rod's tone, word choice, and sometimes lack of self-examination than the substance of the points he's making.
Daniel - I appreciate the explanation. So it sounds like you see yourself as some kind of assistant to the "crunchy con" world; here to help us avoid an echo chamber. How noble of you to donate your time in such a way. I'd ask you to consider how you're presenting yourself when you comment here. Your comments, in my opinion, come across as nitpicky and as unconstructive criticism. I challenge you to engage the points Rod makes about American society instead of just picking out a sentence or two that irks you and throwing out a snarky response.
Thanks for your feedback.
SWPL is funny. You suggesting blacks are inherently less intelligent than whites? Not so much.
So basically, the only reason white people would take offense at your statements couldn't POSSIBLY be because they are offensive, but instead have to with their own egos?
*Eye roll*
You know, as a woman of color, I'll take white people who err on the side of respecting other's people feelings over those who, in their view, "Tell it like it is!" (and usually, "how it is" is some racist drivel) any day.
Nice to see you can pat yourself on the back for having such a low level of insight, though.
You suggesting blacks are inherently less intelligent than whites? Not so much.
Huh?
We need a list things for which it is ok to express moral outrage. Also, should Christians ever be offended at the way others are treated? Which actions should offend Christians?
Steve
Thank you for the kind words, Eric K. Speaking for myself, though, I've often found Daniel's comments refreshing and enlightening. For me, they have a breadth of outlook that goes beyond the merely picky. Of course, that figures, since he shares my POV more often than he does yours! I think we all have occasionally to be forgiven for an outstandingly prickly or petty remark--yrs. truly included. ; )
Also speaking for myself, much of the outrage I express around here is for myself. I came here as a lifelong Catholic and conservative who was skiiing out of control down the valley of disillusion at rapidly increasing velocity. I hoped that here I would find a bastion of kindly, rational, compassionate, environmentally conscious conservatism that would convince me y'all were the chosen people after all. Errr . . . ahem. Well, I guess I still had a few small fragments of illusion lodged in my skull.
Yeah, it outrages me personally when I find that people who self-identify as Christians are behaving in what I think is an outrageously un-Christian way. That hurts me because you're screwing with MY childhood religion. What I consider injustice, to whatever group, outrages my abstract sense of justice, which is a very important part of my Weltanschauung. Bad behavior to homosexuals makes me mad not because I condescendingly pat gay people on the head and anoint them as saviors, but because they are my friends and family. Everybody gets mad when you diss their friends and family, don't they? And disrespect and prejudice against people of color makes me mad for personal reasons as well. I had the bad fortune to grow up with a family member who was a white supremacist and a Nazi. So I know personally how sick, perverted, creepy, and just plain wrong that is. I don't want it in my life. I've had enough of it. I don't appreciate having it stuck in my face by people who like throwing their non-PC weight around. Ya got a problem with that, pal? (Add smiley-face to indicate I'm kidding. Sort of. Or at least, I'm not really primed to punch anyone out. It's dinner time and my potato salad is tasty. ; ) But don't forget, I earned my black belt in 1994, and I was a black belt of the mind a heck of a long time before that. Courtesy, Integrity, Perseverance, Self-Control, and Indomitable Spirit forever!)
p.s. SWPL actually is quite funny--but if Rod thinks he's not included in the fun, he is suffering from illusion.
Eric K.,
As a guy who disagrees with Rod nearly as often as agree with him, here are a few things I've observed about this blog:
1) It draws traditional social conservatives because Rod is willing to poke at new ideas. Most of the other conservatives out there are same-old-same-old. Boring.
2) It draws modern social liberals because of the "crunchy environmental" aspect and it's hosted on Beliefnet.
But your question: why do the liberals keep coming back to a traditional, conservative blog merely to be negative and not to share and debate ideas is one I've wondered about. There are certainly plenty of liberal environmental blogs out there, so that theory doesn't wash.
My view, based on years of observation: often liberals here have some deep-seated anger at a past preceived wrong - say racism, or sexism, or even some bible-belt religous wacko overdose. Iow, this type of liberal desperately needs a conservative whipping boy for their psychological peace of mind. Critical commentary is often used to merely feel good about oneself, not to enlighten, merely to insult. Rod's a good sport. So.
But I wouldn't worry about it, or try to engage it. Why not engage posters who are truly interested in sharing ideas (there are plenty around of all political stripes) and ignore the meaningless jabs and straw men? I mean, if somebody constructs a dummy that they think looks exactly like you, and then proceeds to beat it to a pulp in a frenzy of liberal extacy, does it hurt anyone a bit? Naw. Besides, for a guy as crusty as Rod, I'm sure gratuitous insults are kind of a compliment, eh?
"My view, based on years of observation: often liberals here have some deep-seated anger at a past preceived wrong - say racism, or sexism, or even some bible-belt religous wacko overdose. Iow, this type of liberal desperately needs a conservative whipping boy for their psychological peace of mind. Critical commentary is often used to merely feel good about oneself, not to enlighten, merely to insult."
Amen.
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