Obama quits Trinity Church

The key thing for me has always been the reaction of the people at Trinity to the sermons -- whether by Wright, Pfleger or anyone else.

They were cheering and yelling their approval and sometimes even being the loudest and most raucous at the exact lines that were supposedly "taken out of context" and supposedly "didn't represent all the good things the church stands for," etc. These people were not stunned, not surprised, no "wtf is this crazy guy ranting about" reaction. In other words, this was normal and typical, and what they liked about the speaker.

Which means there is no way Obama did not know what was the norm at the Trinity UCC pulpit. Which speaks to (1) his current truthfulness in saying he didn't; and (2) the effect 20 years of that bile has had on his soul and those of his family.

"If you had told him this time last year that within 12 months, he would be estranged from his spiritual father, and would have resigned from the only church he and his family have ever known, he probably wouldn't have believed it."

Politics ain't beanbag.

Obama's new church will be, knowing UCC politics and polity, even money on transfering membership to Bryn Mawr Congregational UCC on Jeffery Blvd. just south of Hyde Park in Chicago.

They're a smaller, quieter, likely to be pathetically thankful for the cachet of the Obamas, solidly UCC congregation, happy to let the denomination be quite liberal while being a cautiously centrist, now largely African-American congregation.

In fairness, there's a couple other safely centrist but strongly UCC churches in the area, but Bryn Mawr is closest to where the Obama family lives. They'll join another UCC congregation to make the PR point that they aren't making a "big jump" (though they are, as Trinity is sui generis), and a smaller congregation where the pastor can be counted on to keep a quiet line through November. Bryn Mawr fits the bill, IMHO.

For what it's worth;

Pax, Jeff

So , if he stays, he's a radical. If he goes, he has no courage of his convictions. I guess those people who say you can't have it both ways are wrong.

That's not any intellectual bad faith on the part of others, that's the objective dilemma Obama created for himself by associating with a kooky racialist church for 20 years, a point he had to have known (as I argued above; even Oprah knew).

And yes, the timing makes it impossible to look at this now as anything other than politically motivated. And don't tell me that this resignation becoming public (1) on a Saturday night (2) during which the political world is focusing on a decisive Democratic rules panel meeting (3) after two days of Pfleger-celebrity -- that all that is coincidental.

This church business had made for one very bizarre election year.

Obama and the "I Survived Jonestown and went to Trinity" tee shirt

Romney with the funny underwear, green jellow, and the robotic missionaries.

The various loons that have sort of attracted themselves to McCain like ants at a picnic

And we can't forget Huckleberry with the baptistry in the back of the mobile home.

We can only hope that next election cycle, both parties will come to their senses and only permit certified atheists to run.

"The irony in this is, the African American community has some of the finest Gospel-preaching pastors and churches you'll find anywhere."

Because what you hear there is not that far removed from what you heard at Trinity. Trinity's Black Liberation Theology is standard fare in most Black churches, especially the "Gospel-preaching" ones. Because, of course, what is being preached at Trinity is the Gospel, just not the Gopsel in a way White people are used to hearing it.

This Trinity UCC story reminds me of a joke:

A solitary man was stranded on a deserted island for twenty years until one day he caught the attention of a passing ship and was rescued. Once on board, the Captain asked him about the three buildings on the beach.

"What's the one on the left?"

"That's my house", the man replied.

"What's the one on the right?", asked the Captain.

"That's my church."

What's the one in the middle?"

"Oh, that's the church I used to go to."

I take it as truthful that Obama had some sort of conversion experience and now holds a some sort of Christian faith (no, I don't want to hear more details - at least not as part of a Presidential campaign). But anyone in the UCC has put up with a lot at the denominational level if not in his own congregation. That Obama remained in that denomination at all tells me that he's not My Kind of Christian any more than Mitt Romney was. In neither case would that be a disqualifier in itself, since the country is full of skewed faith.

That Obama exposed his children to the kind of spiritual formation they'd get at Trinity suggests that the thoughtfulness he projects is to some degree a pose. He clearly is not a guy who has thought out the consequences of all his actions. We don't need another president with a good heart who thinks meaning well is doing well.

BO joined TUCC twenty years ago for political reasons. He quit yesterday for political reasons. Give him credit for a perverse kind of consistency: a phony then and a phony now.

What does BO really believe in? What do any us really know about this man? Beware the political messiahs -- the ones who promise to relieve us of whatever plagues us at the moment. Which for voters this year appears to be little more than fatigue with the Clintons and the Bushies. For the benefit of relieving us of our collective fatigue, we are willing to turn over the keys to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to this brilliant and attractive and well-spoken young man whom we really know less about now than we did six months ago.

quote: "We can only hope that next election cycle, both parties will come to their senses and only permit certified atheists to run."

It might be a good idea to keep the certified people (atheist or otherwise) in mental facilities instead of running for public office. That would be a first step to solving many of our problems.

rr

Rod,

How in the world can you claim Obama heard Rev Wright's incendiary rhetoric for 20 years and said nothing? Are you God? Can you look inside the souls of other people?

It's incredibly arrogant and irresponsible of you to assume anything about what Obama knew and when he knew it.

Your guy McCain is so weak on the issues, that you're grasping at straws with this Rev. Wright nonsense. You should be ashamed of yourself for trivializing the campaign by writing about this garbage.

If I sat in a church for 20 years there would have to be something there that would sustain me to be that faithful. And I am sure the teachings were not void either that would enter one's mind.

And, once again I will go to back was the real issue and the real message that the Reverend was giving to the people. And, even if Obama did not say anything he still remained a faithful member of the flock.

I am sure Obama remained because that is where he wanted to be. If I am in a situation I do not like and know there are things wrong I remove myself from the situation. What more is there to say...

Another mystery for the mystery man...

"what church does W attend every Sunday?"

I do not know but I do know that W is not running for President in 2008.

More commentariat ADD, I guess.

Let me focus the question, people:

What is more telling of a man's character: his number of wives or his number of churches?

Obama is very, very intelligent. You get onto the Harvard Law Review based solely on merit, and it's a very high bar.

Obama's intelligence makes the assertion that he didn't know or didn't understand the theology and the ethos of Trinity untenable.

I'm actually not sure how much the dislocations of the past year have cost him personally. The more I see of him, the more strongly he seems to be dispassionate, detached, cool, and calculating. I have very little confidence that I understand what he really thinks about a whole host of issues, and that makes me uncomfortable.

Just a sidenote to the discussion of Obama and Trinity: we need to recognize that even though the UCC has become an incredibly liberal denomination (with some members passing through Christianity into some kind of post-Christian belief system), there is still an evangelical renewal movement within the denomination. The renewal movement is often found in rural churches, and the UCC even has a pro-life caucus. As one who attended a UCC church in the 1970s, I just wanted to make this point for the record.

I am as alarmed as anyone else about Trinity church and pastor Wright, and Obama's relationship to them. But in fairness, I wanted folk to realize that not all UCC members can be tarred with the same brush. Although I chose to leave the UCC, I have a huge amount of respect for my theologically conservative brethren who chose to stay and work for renewal within the denomination. I wish Obama was one of those folks working for renewal, but I see no indication of that.

Okay, so now that I've tried to defend the honor of theological conservatives within the UCC, you can go ahead with the debate concerning Obama and Trinity.

"I've spent time in black churches, I've talked to African-Americans about their church life, I've read sermons from the black church, including those by MLK. In addition, I am African-American myself. On the basis of all these facts, I can say with certainty that you are indeed a troll."

Nonsense. MLK preached sermons on US foreign policy that were every bit as radical as those of Jeremiah Wright. If MLK were alive today and had been Obama's pastor, Obama would have to feign shock and outrage over his statements. Obama himself referred to the radical nature of some of King's sermons in his interview with Fox News about a month ago.

I don't have much respect for Obama, but I have even less for his opponents and the people who are shocked by Wright. Wright said some really stupid things (mainly the HIV conspiracy theory), but he's right that the US government used black people as lab rats in medical experiments, and he's right that the US has been guilty of terror.

What's wrong with Obama is not that he went to Wright's church. What's wrong with him is his desire to be President. You can't worship both God and political power. Politicians have to pander to people's worst instincts-- especially their unwillingness to think badly of themselves. You can't go to a church like Wright's and listen to harsh criticism of US policy and then expect to run for President and not have this come back to haunt you. He had to have known he can't have it both ways. You can't listen to radical prophetic criticism of US culture (not that all of it is accurate, btw) and then expect to win an election for President without rejecting those same criticisms.

I thought I was going to read comments that reflected people with some measure of spirituality. Instead I was shocked. Where was the comapssion, forgiveness, understanding...one would expect of people connecting with Belief Net!

First of all, I do not believe Mr. Obama sat in the pews of that church every Sunday for 20 years. Given he and his wifes professional stature and what they do for a living it isn't even feasible they were there weekly.

Secondly, I can understand people being upset about Rev. Wrights statements and expecting Mr. Obama to respond...and he did without slamming him personally and totally...which I think is very Christian as well honorable of him.

And finally, I think it is ridiculous of people to expect him to have to respond to a guest speaker at his church. How is he responsible for this mans RANT let alone the RANTS of Rev. Wright.

I think it would be helpful if folks would read Obama's words himself to find out where he stands spiritually (read his books)and better yet check out his record. I think as Christians or otherwise the good book says judge a person by their fruits if you are going to judge...which of course the good book says also, Thow shalt not judge lest ye be judged...etc. I think in any case we all should be in prayer that the next president is a peace maker in all areas.