Ted Kennedy brain tumor

You let that (2:44) through but not my pit bull post, Rod?

I suspect that post is not long for this thread, ossicle. And if yours was of the same stripe, you got what you deserved.

I will pray for his health and his conversion

"conversion"..... to what??
"Pray" tell. (Pun definitely intended.)

Wow, tough crowd here today. I don't care for Sen. Kennedy's politics, but he's a human being, and irregardless of his past actions, I would never wish this fate on him. Get over yourselves, people.

Rod, you forgot to add that we should pray for Sen. Byrd as well. He's not looking good.

Ossicle, I found your pit bull post in the junk folder. I didn't put it there; sometimes comments I post on this, my own blog, get automatically shunted into the junk folder. I can't explain it. I clicked yours over to "publish." Have a nice day.

can't we just please pray for Cardinal Mahony, everybody. He really needs our prayers. pray for all the Catholic bishops

You guys (Nat, Alan, guess...) are sickening! Didn't you're mothers teach you - "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

Silence, esp. when one's comments would be sub-human (as Rod pointed out above) and def. not Christian, is appropriate...

Alternatively, try (from the BCP):

For Sen Kennedy:

O merciful Father, who hast taught us in thy holy Word that
thou dost not willingly afflict or grieve the children of men:
Look with pity upon the sorrows of thy servant, for whom our prayers are offered. Remember him, O Lord, in mercy,
nourish his soul with patience, comfort him with a sense of
thy goodness, lift up thy countenance upon him, and give
him peace; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

[OR, IF THIS IS THE MOST YOU CAN DO...]

For Enemies:

O God, the Father of all, whose Son commanded us to love
our enemies: Lead them and us from prejudice to truth:
deliver them and us from hatred, cruelty, and revenge; and in
your good time enable us all to stand reconciled before you,
through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

There are lots of prayers for those that influence opinion, and those in authority... Have you prayed for these people... They have lot of responsibility, and will be held to account... Prayer is appropriate... Thank God for the Good One's, and entreat him on behalf of the rest!!!

I live in Massachusetts, and Edward Kennedy is my Senator. I don't like his politics, I don't approve of how he has led his life, and I think it is quite probable that he was indeed responsible for the death of poor Miss Kopechne at Chappaquiddick. But ...

... for all that, he is, like me, a sinner for whom Christ died. Whatever his sins may be, he does not have to answer to me or to any of us for those sins. Rather, he will answer at the dread judgment-seat to Him Who bore those sins, and the sins of all of us, upon the Tree.

Therefore, no matter how much, or for how long, I have disliked him and regarded him as a political opponent, I will pray for him: for his complete recovery (however unlikely that may be), for the grace of repentance, and for a good defence before the dread judgment-seat of Christ. Just as I would welcome the prayers of any believer for me, a poor sinner, whether they like me or not.

Ossicle, I found your pit bull post in the junk folder. I didn't put it there; sometimes comments I post on this, my own blog, get automatically shunted into the junk folder. I can't explain it. I clicked yours over to "publish." Have a nice day.

Posted by: Rod Dreher | May 20, 2008 3:25 PM

Rod,

I just read it. I think it was filed approp. before!

...which is what Susan Davis said already, essentially.

Pray for Ted Kennedy because he needs prayers.

I hope if I'm ever sick, my friends and my enemies will pray not only for my health, but for my conversion. In fact, I would rather them pray for my soul than my body. I don't want to go to judgment with unrepented sins on my conscience, including sins of which I'm not aware, or are hiding from. It is an act of charity to pray for the conversion of sinners, of whom I am first. There is no one alive who does not need prayers for his or her conversion.

jh: "It is sad that so many of His self-proclaimed followers cannot bear to emulate His example. But then, that is the hardest part of being a Christian. Those who find His commandment too difficult in practice had better hope Jesus will be more forgiving to them than they are to their fellow human beings."

Don't waste your breath trying to change the minds of the self-righteous Sons of Satan who are rejoicing at the infirmity of another human being. Rod is wise to leave their words stand as a testimony to their true nature.

Rod, thanks for the links to the story, and for mentioning Senator Byrd's remarks. The Kennedy family most definitely needs our prayers, especially the Senator, and I appreciate your willingness to call for them.

Anyway, if you believe that Ted Kennedy is a notorious public sinner, he needs your prayers more than ever now that he faces what, absent a miracle, will be his death.

Well, my first comment to my husband after hearing this news was less than charitable, I'm afraid.

But the more charitable and prayerful example of others has given me the grace to feel ashamed of that first rather human reaction.

As for "Why pray for this specific person?" Mdavid, are you forgetting that one of the Spiritual Works of Mercy is to "Pray for the living and the dead?" Sure, we can pray for all random anonymous sick people, but I think it's sobering to reflect on the possibility that prayers for Senator Kennedy might promote real repentance on his part--we should all hope for such a grace, for him and for ourselves when our time comes.

I heard once that Bing Crosby would always pause a moment to pray for the repose of the soul of anyone he heard about who had recently died. Some of his friends in Hollywood amused themselves by waiting until he was eating, or busy, or in the middle of a conversation to announce loudly the passing of some distant connection or other--but the man always paused a moment in silent prayer--because *all* practicing Catholics of the time would do the same thing. We've lost the habit of "casual" prayer and replaced it with less edifying casual habits, I'm afraid.

Pray for Senator Kennedy. To those who show mercy will mercy be shown.

Perhaps this will be a more edifying thread all the way around if we use it to discuss the proper way to pray for people we consider to be our enemies, or at least consider to be immoral and harmful to the common good. Because sooner or later, we'll all be in the position of being asked to pray for a politician we may despise. I have no doubt that if George W. Bush had been diagnosed with brain cancer, we'd have just as many people on the thread below saying they're not going to pray for the likes of him. How does one pray for the welfare we dislike, despise or disrespect?

I have no doubt that if George W. Bush had been diagnosed with brain cancer, we'd have just as many people on the thread below saying they're not going to pray for the likes of him. How does one pray for the welfare we dislike, despise or disrespect?

Rod, you are so right.

I have no but utter disrespect and disdain for "W", but God forbid he should be afflicted with this kind of illness, it would not be difficult for me to pray for his health.

And I'm not even Christian, yet can find mercy in my heart for others. How illuminating - mercy and compassion is not limited to those who claim to follow Christ.

And for those who would pray for my conversion, don't. You probably don't want the likes of me, anyway.

He can drive the moneychangers out of the Temple, but that does not necessarily mean we are to emulate it.??????
Oh so Christ's ACTIONS are not good enough for you to follow???
You only want to pick and choose - ! Strange!

It's classy of you not to post your name. Launching vituperative anonymous attacks is ALWAYS the way to go.

Oh well. I guess there will always be some intolerant jerks in the world. Like Mama always said, "If you have nothing nice to say, keep your mouth shut."

How does one pray for the welfare [of those] we dislike, despise or disrespect?

Rabbi, may I ask you a question?

Certainly, Leibesh.

Is there a proper blessing... for the Tzar?

A blessing for the Tzar? Of course. "May God bless and keep the Tzar - far away from us!"

mdavid, I agree. It's puzzling and weird to me as well when these calls come out to pray for this or that famous person in the news who is in adversity. Now I'm a prayerful, compassionate, softhearted person in general. If I were to read on my own the original article about the serious illness of a politician, I would certainly pray with sincerity. Why is it that instead when it's Christians calling to each other to pray for some celebrity or public figure we don't even know and never will (most all of us), I find myself rebelling in heart almost like the haters who actually do feel and express abominable things about the suffering of others? It just seems cheesy and inauthentic, somehow. Millions of unknown regular people suffer in obscurity, but because someone is in the public light (and it's rarely to never the most admirable of motives leading people to seek power or fame and its benefits) they are the recipients of the prayers of the masses. All together it's just kind of disgusting.

Yes. BCP is "Book of Common Prayer."

Rod - Sorry for the lengthy response to the flame thrower... It was really off topic... Just got under my skin... I'm not often called a fool and a clown all at the same time... Usually, only one or the other... Anyway, it is curious that the poster took issue with the translation used, and not the sentiment expressed...

As for the Temple Chasing idea... Not sure that is really a very good example for this situation... As for the WWJD idea, I think Irenaeus has some good points. He's not saying we should frequent the money changing table... But Jesus had authority over those in the temple, being God... I don't think any of us would emulate Jesus in claiming to be Divine??? Isn't that picking and choosing which things we should emulate? Isn't that appropriate, given that we are not Jesus?

What better prayer than may God's will be done? God's will should be our love even above our own judgement of what divine mercy we hope others to find. Loving God is before loving even our fellow humans, isn't it? When we pray for God's will in matters like these, we do not have to torture ourselves so much trying to think about how exactly we "love" our enemies, how we find warmth in our hearts for vile or wicked people. We love them by wishing that God, who is perfect love, do HIS will with them.

How does one pray for the welfare we dislike, despise or disrespect?

This is why the BCP is such a wonderful devotional book. Standard prayers, such as these (and the Psalms) are actually quite edifying. Teaching us how to pray... even convicting us and changing our hearts... I always believed in the "fake it till you make it" idea with prayer. Just pray for your enemy... God will give you the grace to actually love them once you take the first step... That has been my experience.

prayers for her ? she counts!

Well, go and pray for her and stop beating everyone up who are calling for prayers for Sen. Kennedy. I'm sure God will sort it all out. It doesn't have to be either / or

How does one pray for the welfare we dislike, despise or disrespect?

From Fiddler On The Roof

"May God bless and keep the Czar .... far, far, from here."

Y'know, there's a point where it's just one human being to another, and a matter of basic decency. You see a guy about to enter a dark and painful path that will probably end in his death, and you don't sneer at him or rejoice that he's getting what's coming to him. He's a suffering human being and you have to be kind to him. And that includes praying for his salvation.

You don't have to pretend he's not a sinner. If he's a notorious public sinner, you don't have to pretend he's not. Nor do you have to offer a loud and insincere-sounding public prayer that he would stop being so evil; if you think that's the prayer he needs, make it silently, and diminish your opportunity for self-righteousness. You don't have to be his judge right now. God's got that covered.

Katherine, I'd like to address what you wrote.

Prayer isn't like the handing out of money or some other tangible sort of material aid. It's not finite, and it's not "earmarked" like a United Way contribution.

When we turn to our Heavenly Father in prayer, we do so like a child who is asking for a favor on behalf of another. And He responds with generosity far surpassing what we've asked for; He already knows not only what we need, but what everyone needs.

Is it a "cheap" thing to pray for Sen. Kennedy? Not if the prayers are sincere. Is it foolish to pray for famous people? Sometimes they need prayers more than anybody. Would I have prayed specifically for people suffering from brain cancer today? Probably not, but I just did, when I prayed, "Lord, please help Sen. Kennedy at this time of suffering, and all those who suffer from similar illnesses."

When you're asked to pray for the friend of a friend, do you shrug and say, "But I don't know him?" If you were asked to pray for the head of the company you work for, or for a priest or pastor of your church, would you say, "Why does he need my prayers? He has plenty of people to pray for him." If we are generous in our prayerful response to the suffering, even the suffering we will never meet in China or in Myanmar or anywhere else where tragedy strikes, then in our hour of need we will not be left alone.

Praying for others helps us to grow as followers of Christ; whether those others are known only to us or are famous shouldn't matter.

My oldest daughter used to insist, as a very young child, that any little treat or privilege I gave her should be shared with her younger sisters. Sometimes if I handed her one cookie or cracker without thinking, she'd immediately start to break it into three pieces so she could give each of her sisters a piece, even if they were playing in another room and had no idea that she had something they didn't. That is how God wants us to be with prayer--to show our deep gratitude for all the blessings He's given us by immediately asking him to bless all those in need as He has blessed us.

And so long as you're not saying "Help all those in need, Lord, except for the following people I disagree with personally or politically," you don't have to pray for Sen. Kennedy by name. But I still think it's a kind act to do so.

Posted by: Eric W | May 20, 2008 4:45 PM

Dang, Eric beat me to it!

If there is a God out there that hears prayers and interacts with the universe in measureable ways, please heal Ted Kennedy. Thanks.

...Like we KNOW your name is really Zach...

Katherine, I understand what you're saying, but if a person becomes a frequent poster here, I think you get a feeling of familiarity with that person. There are several people on other bnet boards, here, for example, for whom I "look" because it's fun to carry on a "coversation" with them here on different topics. It therefore seems even more cowardly than usual when people spit venom and don't even reveal their alias.

How does one pray for the welfare of those we dislike, despise or disrespect ?

The same way we pray for the welfare of those we like, cherish or love.
No matter if it kills us to do it.

"Lord, not my will, but Thy will be done."

The reason for this is very simple; this is what we should want were any of us ever in this same situation. I've never known anyone who had this particular form of cancer, but I've known people who have had other forms of cancer, or a stroke. Dying like that does not strike me as being all that much fun. And it sure as Hell has to be devastating to his family---as it would be on anyone's family, no matter who they are. I've had relatives die like that, and that's not the sort of thing I'd wish on anyone. To wish it on their family is nothing short of barbarity.

Remember what the Bard of Avon said: "In the course of history, none of us should see salvation."

Like I said, it may sodding well kill me.....but here goes:

Father in Heaven, look out for Senator Edward Kennedy. Grant him Your grace and grant his family Your mercy. Not my will, but Thy will be done.

In Jesus' name, I ask this. Amen.

Your servant,

Lord Karth

??? I guess you better inform the (Catholic) Bishop of Fort Worth, and Pope Benedict... ??? They were unaware... Hey, maybe they're Protestant too... I guess we should clear them with you too?

Erin, I had actually been thinking (as I ruthlessly edited my comment way down) that our prayers are finite because we are finite. Now of course God is not finite, we have no need to prioritize or limit our prayers on His account. But as people have only so much time and prayer energy in a day, I can't see it as sinful if some of us simply don't have the heart to give equal time or care to certain people or causes. Fortunately, I think this is something well managed by God in the graces He gives us; I have seen it seems that for every person perhaps a bit cold in praying for sinners, there is a person whose heart is very much called to sinners in need of prayer, or for every person who overlooks one cause or issue there is another who has felt that same issue as one of their prayer vocations.

I am appalled at the vitriol spewed out by certain despicable mean-spirited churls. They are the type that would have cheered the lions in the arena. Contemptible schadenfreude.

From the Sacrament of Extreme Unction, today used for anointing the sick:

Respice quaesumus Domine famulum tuum Eduardum in infirmitate sui corporis fatiscentem, et animam refove quam creasti: ut castigationibus emendatus, se tua sentiat medicina salvatum. Per Christum Dominum nostrum.

Look after you servant, Lord, we ask, failing in the infirmity of his body, and refresh the soul that you created: so that, having atoned through punishments, he may know himself healed by your remedy. Through Christ our Lord.

Rod,
Does it make you sad or upset, or surprise you, that so many of the people reading your column are (Roland beat me to saying it) wallowing in schadenfreude?

Why do people here keep referring to Ted Kennedy as "God's servant"? I.e. "we pray for Your servant"? How do they know that? If they want to pray for him, fine. But it seems a little peculiar to pray for him as if God has been using him all along. (Sounds surprisingly... Bushian.)

Ellen,

I suggest that anyone I would put on a list is a person whom you would not hold in high regard or whom you would necessarily view as a good person, as by definition, that person would not be what you might call conservative.

I respectfully therefore decline your invitation. My point was that one can hold what many here would consider "liberal" views, support women's rights, and fight for the oppressed, and still not be the scourge of the earth.

I'm sorry to say it, but a few posters on this thread are making me sick. I'm going to close it down.