Crunchy Con

Camille on gays, Christianity and the West

Monday June 16, 2008

Categories: Culture

A decade or so ago, I remembered reading something by Camille Paglia in which she -- pagan, atheist, lesbian -- defended orthodox Christianity from gay activist attacks. In my recollection, she argued that gays shouldn't forget that homosexuality flourishes only in urban civilization, and that they would be wise to remember that insofar as the Church is a pillar of civilization, and a tolerable civic order, their own liberties, ironically, depend on the Church being strong (but not too strong, obviously). I thought it a novel argument, but I can't find the piece where she made it. I did find this typically provocative Salon column of hers from 1998 where she made that argument, for the most part, but this isn't what I recall reading. In my recollection, she argued that people don't realize how fragile civilization is, and how easily what we think of as solid can melt.

But perhaps I'm combining several different Paglia pieces in my mind. Anyway, here's an argument-starter from Madama:

So gays should quit bitching about Southern Baptists exercising their constitutional right to free speech about homosexuality, which is indeed condemned by the Bible, despite the tortuous casuistry of so many self-interested parties, including clerics. I have been warning and warning for years that the insulting disrespect shown by gay activists to religion -- which has been going on for 20 years virtually unchecked on TV talk shows, with their biased liberal hosts -- would produce a backlash over time.

Gay men must never get complacent, for they are forever on the edge of a precipice: In a political cataclysm, they have usually been among the first to be purged. No major world religion has ever endorsed homosexuality, which can be openly practiced only in peaceful, affluent, cosmopolitan periods. But history shows that male homosexuality, which like prostitution flourishes with urbanization and soon becomes predictably ritualized, always tends toward decadence. In my interpretation, total sexual freedom allows humanity's repressed animality to go wild.

As a libertarian, I believe that government must stay out of our private lives. As an atheist, I believe that government has no business sanctifying the unions of some persons (heterosexuals) but not others (homosexuals), particularly when certain benefits (such as employer-sponsored spousal health-insurance) flow to one group only.

As a scholar, however, I am troubled by the provincialism and amorality of the gay male world, when compared to the vastness of philosophical perspective provided by orthodox religion -- or even by ancient paganism, which honored nature. And as a lesbian, I'm sick and tired of the gay rights movement being damaged by the cowardly incapacity for self-examination of many gay men.

Sometimes, I wish Camille would just quit holding back, and say what she really thinks.

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Comments
Lynn
June 17, 2008 11:57 AM


" . . . Speaking out against British Columbia’s hate speech laws, attorney Roger D. McConchie noted correctly that “innocent intent is not a defense. Nor is truth. Nor is fair comment on true facts. Publication in the public interest and for the public benefit is not a defense. Opinion expressed in good faith is not a defense. Responsible journalism is not a defense. . . .”

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27027

__________________

Rob: If you honestly see nothing wrong with the current activities of these tribunals, then you deserve them and all the fear and silence they will spawn.
__________________

*I have a post stuck somewhere in the BNET filter. Too many links, I suppose.

grigory
June 17, 2008 9:59 PM

Lynn, I too heard about the Boisson case. Unfortunately this is not an isolated occurrence - Canada's laughable "human rights" commission system has long been used to punish politically incorrect speech.

"If you're hired by a foreign (in this case, US) hate-organization to inspire violence, in my opinion, you still can think what you want, but you can't necessarily say it if you have a series of convictions of assault, fraud, and conspiracy to commit assault."

Care to tell me what "hate-organization" you're talking about? Or what the assault case involved? Or how defending Christian doctrine regarding homosexuality is considered "inspiring violence"? This nonsense makes me wish I was back in Bulgaria where the homosexual lobby is virtually non-existent and citizens are free to criticize abnormal sexuality - although not for long, if the EU has anything to say about it.

Bonnie
June 17, 2008 10:27 PM

Isn't it fascinating that Paglia agrees with religious people who are her total opposite? It says to me that somewhere in the essence, beyond b.s., there may be something truthful there...

As far as hate crimes... The very notion of hate crimes seems to me to be discriminatory. If I had a hatred of people with shrill or nasal voices, and attacked one, I'll get a far lesser punishment than if they were gay. So maybe some looney out there attacks somebody BECAUSE they are gay, but maybe somebody gets in a fight WITHOUT KNOWING he was gay... either way, what matters is an assault was committed and they proved themselves hateful. The law has no business trying to get any further inside people's head, with its subjective list of which hate counts more than any other.

Lynn
June 19, 2008 5:05 PM

Rob:

If you're still checking this thread, and you're so inclined, please watch these clips, especially parts IV and V, then tell me how Levant gets it wrong:

http://www.primetimepolitics.com/primetime/site/video/ezra_levant_on_the_michael_coren_show/

recovering ex-Pentecostal
June 25, 2008 9:58 AM

Bonnie,

"If I had a hatred of people with shrill or nasal voices, and attacked one, I'll get a far lesser punishment than if they were gay.

One has to wonder why you would attack either person, and why you might "hate" either. (Not that real, live, actual people are being attacked because of their "shrill or nasal voices" in the first place. Gay people, on the other hand ...)

"So maybe some looney out there attacks somebody BECAUSE they are gay, but maybe somebody gets in a fight WITHOUT KNOWING he was gay..."

Again, real live actual gay people are being attacked (plus not a few who are merely perceived to be gay), along with the requisite cries of "Die, faggot!" And yes, the attackers often are "loonies".

Besides, hating people and attacking people are hardly "Christian values.

People don't just "get in a fight" for no apparent (or stupid) reason ("shrill or nasal voices"??? Get Real!).

Face it, Bonnie, people still hate gay people, and still atack them merely for being gay.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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