Peeing on Hitler

"And they hated officials and they hated all the layers of bureaucracy. They believed the government can't get anything done right. It's all so simple. You just have to go over there and do it yourself."

Ah the much vaunted Scots-Irish - Who are in fact Ulster Scots. And they also hated Catholics and once they got to America blacks, with the same violence and passion they hated the government.

The Orange Order and the Klan are Scots-Irish root and branch. They are my people and they don't make me proud and I don't find them funny.

Mont D. Law,

The Orange Order and the Ku Klux Klan are "root and branch" of the Scots-Irish only in the sense that:

Fascism is "root and branch" of the Germans, the Japanese, the Italians, the Spanish, the Brazilians, the Argentines, et al.

Communism is "root and branch" of the Russians, the Chinese, the Cubans, the Koreans, the Cambodians, the Vietnamese, et al.

Baathism and Al Qaeda are "root and branch" of Arabs and Muslims.

Idi Amin and Robert Mugabe are "root and branch" of Africans.

If we're going to toss around offensive stereotypes based on the worst that has ever been done by members of a certain ethnic group, let's at least give equal opportunity to take offense.

Even the bland-old Belgians -- around the time of Leopold -- did more to be ashamed of than the even the bad-old Scots-Irish have done. And I won't even start with the French.

It sounds to me like you have a bad case of American exceptionalism -- "No one could be as bad as us."

And that you also are a self-loathing snob -- the only kind of snob, come to think.

Oh Sig, in your dreams maybe! :-D

No, O'Tooles character didn't look too pretty when the Gestapo got through with him.

"If we're going to toss around offensive stereotypes based on the worst that has ever been done by members of a certain ethnic group, let's at least give equal opportunity to take offense."

If the post had been speaking of any of those groups as charming and quixotic I probably would have taken a moment to remind people that the quirky charm was not all there was. I do find the Scots-Irish are too often praised for their hard headed pragmatic independence without any mention of the horrific bigotry that goes with it.

"It sounds to me like you have a bad case of American exceptionalism -- "No one could be as bad as us."

Not an American so not guilty - - at least of that - - sorry to disappoint.

"And that you also are a self-loathing snob -- the only kind of snob, come to think."

Since this is an insult and not an argument I can only respond:

http://xrl.in/6el

Clare's mention of Claus von Stauffenberg caught my eye. I receive back issues of the Times Literary Supplement from a subscriber. In the April, 2008, issue, I just read an article titled "Maximin and the Master," by Ritchie Robertson. It's a review of Thomas Karlauf's biography of the strange German poet Stefan George and his circle. His disciples included the three von Stauffenberg brothers, whose parents introduced them to George as a mentor when they were teenagers. The article includes a striking photograph of George with Claus and Berthold von Stauffenberg. The young and handsome Claus is gazing adoringly at his elderly mentor.

Essentially, George presided over a mini-cult with strong homoerotic overtones. He looked forward to a purification of Germany under the leadership of an aristocratic leader, in a way that eerily prefigured the subsequent Nazi regime. Not that he was a Nazi himself--but the study of his circle certainly sheds some light on themes of German culture that might have provided the substrate for the growth of fascism.

Says Robertson, "Karlauf adopts Max Weber's concept of charisma, in which the impact of a visionary leader transforms the outlook of his followers and induces him to identify with him from a humble distance. Weber formulated this concept in 1910, the year in which he first met George, and he cites the George circle as a remarkable contemporary example of a charismatic sect."

Alas, I can't post a link to the TLS. But there's more on von Stauffenberg and George here:
http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1685082,00.html

I find the complexities revealed here quite fascinating. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from it all. It would be too simplistic, perhaps, to say that suicide bombing to purify the righteous chosen land is ok, provided Hitler is the target. I guess the only thing I can state with certainty is that all things have the defects of their qualities--irascible Scots-Irish and aristocratic Germans among them.

Mont D. Law,

We'll all be waiting patiently for you to accentuate the negative -- consistently and without any bias or prejudice involved -- when any positive mention is made on this blog at any time about any ethnic group whatsoever.

Oh, heck, let's not even bother to wait: "I really like Indians. Everyone from India whom I have ever met has been a wonderful person. Indian culture has much to admire."

What do you have to say to that?

As to your not being American, one hardly has to be American oneself to engage in American exceptionalism of the derogatory sort in which you're engaged.

At the very least you can be said to engage in Scots-Irish exceptionalism of a prejudiced kind.

That prejudice is snobbish.

And since the prejudice is aimed toward those like you, it is, in some, sense a self-loathing snobbery.

I rest my case, and have no intention of opening the link you include in your previous post.

"Rouge Male?" That's funny considering that someone famous (I think it was Noel Coward) said that, if Peter O'Toole had been any prettier, they would have had to name his breakthrough film "Florence of Arabia."

True, and the real T.E. Lawrence was reportedly gay.

Yes, I had heard that. Then again, it's never surprised me that gay men wanted to claim that the most good-looking men in the world were gay. Who wouldn't want to claim Cary Grant was gay? For instance.

I realize these comments are totally OT. Sorry.