Michael Savage and autism

When I first saw the headline last week "Savage Condemned for Comments on Autism", I thought the story might have been about Dan Savage. Now that would have been truly interesting...

The worst thing about this whole kerfuffle, though, is that as an outrageous comment it will have a chilling effect on any discussion of more rational policy questions, such as whether "HDHD" or other "autism spectrum disorders" are being overdiagnosed.

Otherwise, it is just an item for a slow news week in mid-summer.

I met the troglodyte in question in person a few years ago. I couldn't get over how smooth, low-key, calm and collected he was, in contrast to his on-air persona. Even simple social gatherings get to me, but I've gotten more and more comfortable with the schmoozing my job requires as I have aged.

Then a relative called me a few days later to say I had been trashed on his show, but as a "some hick from the sticks" who had no business at a Beverly Hills social hour. I am, by the way, an extraordinarily blessed and mostly functional autistic adult who makes a living in one of Savage's earlier professions. My father, a product of his era, tried just the approach Savage recommends. And when he gave up, I began to shine.

So, conservatives, liberals, autistic people who have PhDs in biochemistry, and autistic people who don't, too, point out the error in this man's ways. But don't be surprised if he's really a bit autistic himself.

Rob, thanks for sharing that. Most of these guys have no class at all, as your anecdote demonstrates.

Savage is betraying his complete ignorance of matters like these when he talks about them. He sounds like a Scientologist talking about postpartum depression.

Savage said something that offended someone....who da thunk it? Maybe it's his Arbitron ratings week.

Seriously though, he is the Evil Clown of right wing radio!

Rod,

Thanks for posting this. Savage is way out of line with his dopey comment. I'm sure that parents with autistic kids grieve when they hear nutty comments like this one.

Am puzzled by Savage's popularity. Someone posted here (if I'm not mistaken) that Savage is the third highest ranking radio talk show host in the US. How the heck could that be? I've heard his program once or twice. It reminded me of that nighttime program, "Coast-to-Coast Live" with Art Bell. Stuff out of the Twilight Zone, if you know what my mean.

By the way, out of curiosity, I googled him and read the wikipedia entry on Michael Savage. Pretty exotic !

while i'm not a fan of Savage's program or style, there are way too many children being diagnosed as autistic when in fact they may not be. this is like the days when boys were being diagnosed as ADD and ADHD. My sympathies go out to folks who have children who are truly autistic, but Rod weren't you the one who recently posted an online autism survey?

the facts are that many children are being diagnosed as autistic when they aren't

there are folks who claim that autism is caused by thimerosal in vaccines when in fact that chemical hasn't been use for years
www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20080107/thimerosal-down-but-autism-rising

Check out Thomas Sowell and his comments about autism
'There is no question you can diagnose anything as early as you want. The real question is whether the diagnosis will turn out to be correct.
www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/19/autism-cures/

"Autism is a devastating condition, both for those who have it and for their parents. At this point, its causes are unknown, and if there is any cure for it, that is unknown as well."
www.redding.com/news/2007/nov/14/autism-crusade-will-backfire-on-children/

Or folks can read the following article
"no sound scientific evidence indicates that the increasing
number of diagnosed cases of autism arises from anything
other than purposely broadened diagnostic criteria, coupled
with deliberately greater public awareness and intentionally
improved case finding"
www.autcom.org/pdf/Epidemic.pdf

DSM-IV Autistic Disorder
www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/autistic.htm

finally check out this mother's blog
onemom.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/onemom-speaks-2/

I had the misfortune to hear Savage a couple of times and had to turn the dial...he is outrageous. And his comment about autism? Why would anyone even start to believe anything he comes out with? He certainly knows nothing about autism...

Rob, Thanks for sharing your experience.

Jeeves! Jeeves! Come quickly. A horrid ruffian is among us! I feel the vapors upon me. Bring me my salts.

Savage is the worst of all the Right-wing talkers. I have tried to listen to him a couple of times but can't stand his insane ranting and vile bigotry. (His 3 favor targets of his hate are liberals, Muslims and Gays in that order.) He calls everyone who disagrees with him "vermin" or "traitors."
Why this man is even remotely popular is beyond me but he does have the third most listened to talk show in America. (Which is a very sad comment on America by the way.) What really gets to me is listening to his callers fawn all over him when they get a chance to speak to him.
As someone else said, anger sells and Savage has an abundance of it.
Ironically Savage has been saying horrible things for years but no conservative has ever called him on it. It's pathetic that Savage had to make fun of autistic kids for conservatives to finally speak out about just how vile he is.

Savage is a jerk. I've listened to him a few times and was disgusted both times.

Incidentally, he seems to hate everyone; right and left. I heard him rail about Bush and Limbaugh etc. on one of those occasions. He's so far right he meets the far left on the back side.

"Who listens to him?" Morons.

I love how Pitney feels the need to throw in a disclaimer stating that it isn't just a liberal thing to care about autistic people. You know, just in case people might feel less conservative if they opposed the mocking of disabled children.

Give me a break.

"there are way too many children being diagnosed as autistic when in fact they may not be." Peterk

TR: I think "way too many" might be an exaggeration, but it's possible. I think there probably are "way too many" people on psychiatric medications, but this doesn't make Tom Cruise any less of a loon.

"'Who listens to him?' Morons."

TR: My uncle's one of those morons. I don't know why he listens to him though and I've never asked.

"I love how Pitney feels the need to throw in a disclaimer stating that it isn't just a liberal thing to care about autistic people. You know, just in case people might feel less conservative if they opposed the mocking of disabled children." Dan

TR: Or maybe it's just in case any liberal found his/her way to National Review and he wants to set them straight.

Way to go WINA! Dave Ramsey is unquestionably more positive and useful than Michael Savage.

Reaganite in NYC: Don't go comparing Art Bell (may he Live Long and Prosper) or the other entertaining Coast-To-Coast nighthawks with the venomous likes of Michael Savage.

Or should I say, Mr. Weiner.

Savage says a lot of stupid things.

He talks about himself a lot, too. He strikes me as a profoundly unhappy, perhaps disturbed person.

I am trying to persuade myself to pray for him, but am finding it difficult.

What makes his comment especially cruel is that it is often when autistic kids are acting out the most that they are hurting and in need of help the most, whether they can't communicate what they need to, or are overstimulated, or don't understand what's going on and feel a loss of control, which they can find very threatening and frightening, or are having a full blown meltdown, which is an extremely difficult experience, both for the child and the family. Doing what he suggests is one of the worst things you can do, and unfortunately that probably happened often before people knew or understood anything about autism, especially with kids who were higher functioning. Comments like this must hit older generations who've gone through that especially hard.

I wonder if perhaps it is over the top, which makes it especially vile. It's already bad enough to actually believe this stuff and spew it over the airwaves, but to be saying such cruel things for the money, is just beyond disgusting.

Mike Savage gets paid to say outragous things. He really rang the bell on this one. I truely hope that he does not actually believe the things he said. Some of the blogs I have read claim that he had a brother that had autism, and that this brother died young. One would think that something like that would soften his heart toward those of us who are dealing with autism in our families. Maybe that report was as false as the garbage he was saying when he went on his rant.

I am the father of 6 children, one of which is a sweet 4 year old that has autism. My little boy cannot speak or understand language so yelling at him to stop acting like a fool would be a waste of time.

Mike Savage was wrong on this one, but the positive here is he got people talking about autism. When all is said and done here, I think the public will come away better informed because Mike Savage decided to get it wrong and good people stood up and told it like it really is.

I listen to Savage fairly often. I find him interesting because he seems to be a very independent thinker (he's not a shill for any particular party line or movement) and he is no doubt a smart guy with a doctorate in epidemiology, if memory serves. I often disagree with him and some of his statements are indeed cringe-inducing.

I've heard him discuss autism, ADHD, etc. before in a calmer way. His belief is that these things are over-diagnosed, and that as a result our children are being put on dangerous medications that in many cases they don't really need to be on, and he finds it reprehensible that doctors and the pharm-co's are doing this to kids. He believes that in a lot of these cases the cure is, in fact, worse than the disease, and that these meds can damage kids for life.

There is no doubt that his latest statement (which I heard live) was hyperbole and a massive overstatement, and insensitive as well, and cannot be defended. But it should be read in light of his overall take on the issue. And this, of course, does not imply that his take is right.

Quelle Surprise! Yeah, Savage is a buffoon. Rightwing media seems to produce those types. Even so, I'm not a big fan of media boycotts and that sort of thing. Free speech and all.

The good thing is that he has handed us a teachable moment about the reality of autism, and people are learning more than they would on the subject than they would had he turned his toxic attention to something else.

As usual, the answer to free speech is more free speech.

Sometimes, and I know no one wants to say it, people like Michael Savage (arrogant hotheads, bastions of bullshit, etc.) , just need a good ole fashioned beat down. I believe this indignant, and quite frankly, good for nothing (What does he actually provide for society? Right, entertainment. He'll have a special place in purgatory.) societal degenerate/boob needs something constructive to do in life besides revel in his own twisted quick wit. I think applying restorative justice (is this a paradox of justices)--after a good-ole fashioned beat down--would restitute the situation. Say, send him to work in an Intermediate Unit for a week and see if the screaming techinque does the job. I bet hands down it wouldn't. I'll try to pray for myself and Savage after all that venting.

If those who believe Kunstler is a nutjob, where does that place Michael Savage?

I have to disagree with poster above there is evidence for a link between vaccination and autism. Thimerosal is still contained is some vaccines. It's not just an issue of children being vaccinated but women being vaccinated while pregnant. And of course, Thimerosal is not the only toxic substance vaccines contain. There are also theories on environmental toxins in general. You might want to check out Jenny Mc Carthy's book.

Autism Research Institue
http://www.autism.com/triggers/vaccine/thimerosalreferences.htm

While being no fan of Michael Savage, and certainly finding remarks like these to be beyond the pale, I also have to imagine that it does reflect a nagging sense which some out there have -- a sense that we're rapidly reaching a point where every difference in behavior can be diagnosed as a medical disorder of some kind -- or a legitimate genetic variation -- and thus handily medicated (or researched for purposes of producing a medication), eventually, perhaps, becoming a legally protected class. I can acknowledge partaking of that point of view to some extent; not necessarily where autism is concerned, but certainly ADHD strikes me as something which, fifty years ago perhaps, we would have solved by telling the kid to go outside and play. I say that openly acknowledging my own ignorance and lack of direct experience with kids who have been diagnosed with ADHD, but I have my own experiences with being diagnosed with a supposedly medical condition which ultimately had a non-pharmaceutical solution. That said, I have a decent amount of experience interacting with autistic kids and adults (and once did something, I don't know what, to prompt the mother of an autistic man to ask my wife if anybody had ever looked into the possibility of me being autistic -- I'll note here my score of 11 on the AQ test Rod recently posted).

To put it another way, there are two ideals, which I would characterize as fundamentally conservative, converging here -- the first being the sovereignty of personal choice and responsibility, particularly where behavior is concerned, and that science/technology/medicine will not save us. As soon as an element of behavior is classified as a medical disorder or a disability or a variation along the lines of skin color or sex, then it's not too much of a jump to say that one has no control over it, eliminating personal choice regulating that behavior and responsibility for the consequences of that behavior. Medication simply appears to remove another layer of responsibility and choice.

Now, I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that point of view (although I tend to be sympathetic to those core ideals), only that there is a reason why some might be suspicious of the increasing numbers of "syndromes" and "spectra of disorders" and so on which seem to the layman to be primarily diagnosed by "knowing it when you see it", particularly when there is so much money to be made off of them in the long run. Fibromyalgia might be claimed by some to be another example. Lactose and gluten intolerances are much harder to justify in this category, but I will say I've known people claiming both who when asked how they knew, they gave appropriately murky answers like "my body goes into fight-or-flight mode".

None of this excuses Savage's incredibly stupid comments, whether he meant them or not. None of this is to suggest that there is no legitimacy to the claims about these disorders. My point is merely that there are reasons these cases tickle some people's B.S. meters. If that can be solved by education, great -- I'm all for educating on these matters, particularly if it means we can get blowhards like Savage to think a bit more before opening their mouths.

I'll end this by noting my favorite "truthy" hypothesis regarding the increase in autism is the idea that it is what we used to call "eccentric genius," and that these people didn't get married and have kids all that much in older days. Since it's become more common for people like this to reproduce, we have a spike in cases and a need to call it something other than a quirk or set of quirks. More than likely to be bogus, of course, but I know some people who think it's true "because I read it somewhere" and has an element of cultural change leading to new problems, the kind of thing which really hooks some kinds of people.

Richard

Richard Barrett, I like your post. And I agree with the substance of it, but something like this is not easily reduced to Michael Savage-type rabble-rousing or 30-second soundbites.

I never heard of the guy either. I only listen to music or NPR. Get most of my news from print media. Can do my own editorializing, thanks.

Richard Barrett, I like your post. And I agree with the substance of it, but something like this is not easily reduced to Michael Savage-type rabble-rousing or 30-second soundbites.

Richard, I agree that it's perfectly fair, and even necessary, to question whether or not autism is overdiagnosed. What Savage did is something different. I know you know this, and said this, but I just wanted to weigh in.

Absolutely agreed on both counts, and that it's important to keep that clear.

Richard

"Face it, it's easier to accept conservative newspeak than to actually commit thoughtcrime and think for yourself."

I fully agree, provided you include both conservative AND liberal newspeak.

I've heard him discuss autism, ADHD, etc. before in a calmer way. His belief is that these things are over-diagnosed, and that as a result our children are being put on dangerous medications that in many cases they don't really need to be on, and he finds it reprehensible that doctors and the pharm-co's are doing this to kids.
Posted by: Rob G | July 25, 2008 8:11 AM

While that may indeed be the case with respect to ADHD (and I'm not as convinced as other conservatives that it is), it certainly isn't with autism, for which there are no specific medications.

"While that may indeed be the case with respect to ADHD (and I'm not as convinced as other conservatives that it is), it certainly isn't with autism, for which there are no specific medications."

While there are no medications specific to autism, my sister, an adult with
autism, has been helped by drugs which target specific symptoms, i.e.,
obsessive/compulsive behavior, anxiety, and temper tantrums. Without those
meds she would almost certainly be in an institution rather than in
a supervised home with two other disabled women.

"My point is, there have been such children all along, it's only lately that _helping_ them has become a higher priority than shielding 'normal' children from their behaviors."

English novelist Jane Austen had a mentally disabled brother, paternal aunt, maternal uncle, and one of her first cousins had a little boy who was described as being unable to walk or talk at age 2. What was wrong with the children?
There's no way to tell, it could have been autism, or some other developmental
disability, and I am sure the Austen family was not the only family where such children appeared. It's just because that family had a member who is a very famous person that the records of the family - and they were a very literate
family so there are a lot of family papers - are studied today.

Then there are all those stories about changelings, normal children who suddenly
seemed strange, as if they had been switched by some supernatural agency...
much like later-onset autism as it is described today.

And if you want a literary portrait of an someone with Asperger's Syndrome, see
Conan-Doyle's Sherlock Holmes or Shaw's Henry Higgins.

It seems that most of these comments are referring to ADD or ADHD. Although technically on the milder end of the autistic spectrum, it is really not comparable to a more severe form of autism. There is medication available to help the impulsivity of ADD/ADHD, although it is not something I would ever recommend for a child. There is no medication available to help children with the severe social defecits that come along with autism. It is these defecits and and sensory processing difficulties that result in these "behavioral" issues. It is a fundamental ignorance of autism which allows for a comparison of behavior between typically developing children and autistic children. It's like comparing the reading difficulties of those without sight to those with sight. I am not suggesting that people are not irritated by the behaviour of autistic children anymore than I would suggest they are not irritated by the acting out of typically developing child. Believe me, it's not your child and I understand. I am merely suggesting that people need understand the fundamental difference and not dismiss an autistic child's behavior as being bratty or misbehaved. Believe me, I would love to take my daughter ToysRUs and have her scream about wanting a toy. My 6 year old daughter has never asked for or requested any toy.

Michael Savage is a complete and utter moron who doesn't deserve the space this takes up. It puzzles me as to how is even on any form of media after the horrific comments he has made in the past about homosexuals. Comments which, by the way, makes me think he protests too much.

Couple of questions I have longed asked myself:

1. Why are there so many loud, obnoxious, disgusting right-wing radio blowhards, and so few (almost none) for the liberal side?

2. Why do loud, obnoxious right-wing radio blowhards spend all their time running down the Democrats, while RARELY talking about the Republicans' solutions to problems? Could it be that the Republican solution is so geared toward benefiting the wealthy and powerful, that if these views were discussed, the Ordinary Joe would find out that he's been voting against his own best interests all along?

3. Why are Americans so shallow and uninformed that they'd rather flock to Mr. Savage Weiner talk about spanking autistic children, than listen to Air America (bankrupt) talk about solutions to social and economic problems?

How can put this simply? Mr. Savage is a blithering idiot!

As a grandparent of a child afflicted with AUTISM , I was appalled by your disgusting rhetoric about these affliction. You know absolutely nothing about it. When we realized there was something wrong, we had him tested by the finest Pediatric psychologists and doctors .The tests took many months and were very thorough. We were hoping and praying that he would be all right. But, when the diagnosis of AUTISM came , we were devastated. It was a stab in the heart. No mother wants to hear that word and no doctor wants to inform a parent that their child has AUTISM. But, now that he is diagnosed, we were able to begin Early Intervention to help him. He is a wonderful child... lovable, bright, well behaved and adorable. How dare you, Michael Savage, belittle these children and describe them as "brats". You are the insolent BRAT. You must have been a dfficult child who had a problem with his father.You owe thousands an apology and you should be OFF THE AIR!!!

Michael Savage, a blithering idiot and moron himself,to nerve of him to make these statements,shows his ignorance. Until he has walked in the shoes of a parent with an Autistic child, needs to keep his mouth shut. Being the mother of an adopted child who has FASD, which is so much like Autism, I am offended by these comments and feel he owes millions of people an apology and be taken off the AIR..

To those that close to some one with Autism, I strongly suggest they pursue the plasticity (www.PositScience.com) studies to which PositScience can refer you. My best. Kermit Turley

I agree with Micheal. I know several people who have chosen to blame bad behavior or stress of life, on their child's state of mind. I think that every parent needs to STAND up and BE A REAL PARENT!! You know in the 60's-80's everyone has ADD or ADHD.. And no one was on drugs! And now you cant even get through on day without hearing a pathetic mother go on about how awful her life is because of "autism". When I know that it is because of lack of parenting. If these parents to their roll seriously and punished their kids accordingly, there would be no problems. I deal with a mother on a day to day basis who has a child with autism. And for 8 years, she has used it to blame all her life's problems for it. She is pathetic to do that. And then she passes it on to the rest of the family and they all think that ALL their kids have problems. Give ME A BREAK!!!! I think Michel is RIGHT!!! I think if there was a dad, or mother who actually taught their children discipline and manners, autism wouldn't even be considered.
GROW UP AND BE A REAL PARENT!

Iam responding to the last comment posted.To say that you don't know what your talking about when it comes to autism and I venture to guess so many other subjects also,is an understatment.You are an uneducated ignoramus to whom I can only hope will chose never to procreate.God forbid if you were to and had a disabled child,I cringe at the thought of what that child would have to endure having you as a parent.You probably make it a habit to speak directly through your anus and are used to being dismissed and ignored so in closing I'll just say to you, you are indeed dismissed.