Crunchy Con

The enemy is us

Wednesday July 2, 2008

Categories: Decline and fall, War

This is one of those stories where you just have to sit back and think about what we as a nation have become. Military interrogators at Guantanamo were operating under procedures copied verbatim from Communist Chinese torturers during the Korean war. Excerpt:

The 1957 article from which the chart was copied was entitled "Communist Attempts to Elicit False Confessions From Air Force Prisoners of War" and written by Albert D. Biderman, a sociologist then working for the Air Force, who died in 2003. Mr. Biderman had interviewed American prisoners returning from North Korea, some of whom had been filmed by their Chinese interrogators confessing to germ warfare and other atrocities.

Those orchestrated confessions led to allegations that the American prisoners had been "brainwashed," and provoked the military to revamp its training to give some military personnel a taste of the enemies' harsh methods to inoculate them against quick capitulation if captured.

In 2002, the training program, known as SERE, for Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape, became a source of interrogation methods both for the C.I.A. and the military. In what critics describe as a remarkable case of historical amnesia, officials who drew on the SERE program appear to have been unaware that it had been created as a result of concern about false confessions by American prisoners.

Senator Carl Levin, Democrat of Michigan and chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said after reviewing the 1957 article that "every American would be shocked" by the origin of the training document.

"What makes this document doubly stunning is that these were techniques to get false confessions," Mr. Levin said. "People say we need intelligence, and we do. But we don't need false intelligence."

When the Chinese Communists do it, it's evil, it's torture. And when we do it?
Mark Shea is right: "What a stain this administration is."

Comments
RJohnson
July 4, 2008 3:53 PM

"This much, however, IS certain: for nearly 7 years our homeland (including NYC) has not been attacked."

Post hoc ergo proctor hoc...NYC hasn't been bombed, therefore torture works.

By that standard anything can be justified...even the killing of innocent children in Baghdad.

Reaganite in NYC
July 5, 2008 1:23 AM

RJohnson: "By that standard anything can be justified...even the killing of innocent children in Baghdad."

RJohnson,

Maybe by your standard ... but not by anyone else's standard. My gosh, what a foul thought you've introduced.

BTW, I don't mean to correct your Latin, but I believe the correct phrase is "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" and NOT "Post hoc ergo proctor hoc"

Karen Brown
July 5, 2008 1:38 AM

I did ask.. what would you NOT consider justified by 9/11? What action, what law, what policy? What is the line you draw that, even if you thought it might make you less safe, its just a place you think we can not go?

Bob
July 5, 2008 8:37 AM

Maybe by your standard ... but not by anyone else's standard. My gosh, what a foul thought you've introduced.

How incredibly disingenuous. Your logical fallacy blinds you to the fact that tens of thousands of innocent people were killed in George Bush's criminal, preemptive war. Even he admits as much.

Karen Brown
July 5, 2008 11:04 AM

It isn't a 'thought', Reaganite. It is a reality. There HAVE been thousands of Iraqi children killed as a result of this war. A war in which just about every reason for which we went into it has been proven to be false. (And no, we didn't go into it to save the Iraqis from Saddam. In the every evolving list of reasons for the war, that one came dead last.) But they occurred because of the level of threat WE felt after 9/11.

Do you consider, in the light of what has been accomplished, and the whatever threats you felt IRAQ (not Bin Laden, not Al Qaeda, but Iraq and Saddam Hussein) truly presented to the US, that those are acceptable losses?

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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