Crunchy Con

The preventable crisis

Sunday July 6, 2008

Categories: Economics, Peak oil
When the Katrina disaster hit Louisiana, it was a hard but entirely anticipated blow to realize that so much of the destruction could have been prevented. For decades, the entire state had been expecting the Big One, the hurricane that...
Advertisement
Comments
Rock
July 6, 2008 3:11 PM

It's always hard for politicians to convince a majority of their voting electorate that uncomfortable adjustments must be made today in order to head off a "crisis" that, while widely believed to be inevitable among most of the experts in the field, is still a hypothetical crisis in the minds of the voters.

As for the auto industry, if General Motors, for example, had known not only that the price of oil would go up, but also the timing of the oil price increase, GM could have profited by investing its captial into making high mileage vehicles. Same for any group of investors who might be capable of making vehicles that run on some alternative fuel.

In preparing for the future, it's not enough to know that someday in the future a change will come. It's important to know, within some level of accuracy, when that change will come. People forcast stock market corrections all the time. People predict economic recessions all the time. But you could go broke hiding all of your money in a mattress because "someday" the stock market will drop by over 20 percent (as it has since October 2007).

So, a mother of 4 children isn't going to try to cram her children into a Kia Rio just because someone on television predicts that the price of oil will go from 40 dollars per barrel to 140 dollars per barrel. One, the prediction guy on TV could be wrong. Two, the market price of oil might hit 140 dollars per barrel twenty years from the time the prediction was made. By that time the 4 children are grown and could have enjoyed being driving in a spacious SUV instead of being forced to sit on each other's laps.

With the beneifit of Monday-Morning Quarterbacking or 20-20 hindsight for you non-Football fans, it's easy to think, "Those boneheads should have known that the price of oil would go up."

That's why it's more fun to watch Football and not as fun to play it. Fewer injuries, you know.

The Mighty Favog
July 6, 2008 3:29 PM

We've been a one-car family for years, and you'd think we oozed boogers from our skin and had three eyes each. And were un-American, to boot.

When you're juggling a car, you end up being penalized at work in some cases and end up feeling pretty much looked-down upon.

What we have in America is a massive cultural problem, and our addiction to the automobile is just one of the more visible aspects of it at present. The root problem is we are greedy, materialistic and unwilling to sacrifice ANYTHING for "the common good."

The answer to our oil problem lies to a large extent in cheap (and that means tax-subsidized), ubiquitous mass transit, walking- and bicycle-friendly streets and a true national rail system. Of course, by the time we come around to that realization, our economy will be in ruins, and there'll be no capital to build any of it.

What goes around. . . .

Kit Stolz
July 6, 2008 3:46 PM

It's true that nothing major can be done in legislation that will solve the problem in the next year or two, but it's surprising how much of a difference can be made at the margins, in many cases without requiring new laws.

For instance, GM can't possibly retool its factories in the US in time to start making lots of new gas-conservative cars this year. But it does have factories overseas and in South America that are right now making popular small cars (such as the Beat, which gets 40 mph) and a small pickup truck that could be sold in the U.S. Should GM think about importing these cars for sale in the US? I don't know how it pencils out, but apparently it's being seriously considered.

For instance, right now a high tariff on Brazilian sugar cane ethanol makes it uneconomical to sell this fuel in the US, even though it's about eight times as energy efficient as corn ethanol. Lifting this tariff would relieve some of the upward pressure on both food and fuel prices (although I'm sorry to say the Democratic candidate is not in favor of this change -- being a Midwesterner).

The government can also impose better reporting requirements for the sake of transparency. More transparency helps markets function more efficiently; if the economy downturn continues to deepen, falling demand will at some point become apparent, and speculation will turn from long to short. The more transparency the less price stickiness.

Traffic is a good example of how quickly change can come, for the better as well as for the worse. Already in Southern California, a five percent drop in traffic has led to much smoother flow.

Peak oil will lead to a lot of changes, but the good news is that in the end, we may well be much happier for having evolved past "the cheap-energy mind" and towards a more thoughtful, more considered way of life.

Rock
July 6, 2008 4:29 PM

Kit Stolz,

For instance, right now a high tariff on Brazilian sugar cane ethanol makes it uneconomical to sell this fuel in the US, even though it's about eight times as energy efficient as corn ethanol.

Excellent point.

Often times people wonder why the US shouldn't just pursue a protectionist trade policy and impose high import tariffs on all kinds of products in order to "protect American jobs."

You just explained why protectionism is a bad idea and low import tariffs are the right policy. We simply can not expect all of the best products to be made within our borders and we must allow the American consumer to purchase products from overseas.

I hope Barack Obama means it when he hints that he will not be a protectionist if he become president.

leslie
July 6, 2008 5:02 PM

We made a decision 10 years ago to move closer to work and now my husband rides his bike everyday. We could have told every single SUV driver on the planet that there wasn't enough oil in the ground for them to continue their driving habits. But, that would have been like telling them the American dream was a delusion. People who conserve are considered elitists but we are the true conservatives.

Rawlins Gilliland
July 6, 2008 5:05 PM

________________________________________
Posted last week on the Dallas Morning News Blog but it bears mention here.

I heard a radio news debate today about whether or not Detroit should 'have seen this gas crisis coming'. Gee..... They only had 35 years warning.

I guess Nissan and Toyota had better access to the internet.

Folks, I am hardly a mean-gone-wild ‘free market’ guy nor a insular antique hippie type. I've had a lucrative corporate Neiman Marcus past, fine clothes, fine cars, house twice in natl. magazines. No eco-Unabomber here. But. I also once lived on communes in the Nixon era. Whether anyone wants to see the wisdom from the counter-culture where I cut my late 60s / early 70s teeth, here it is:

I began recycling in 1969. It made zero sense to bury in a land fill a glass bottle or a newspaper or coke can then any less than now. Gas guzzlers? Avoided them like the plague after the wait-in-line-to-find-empty-pumps gas crisis 35 years ago that showed us all how hostage we were to OPEC Middle Eastern oil. (Why in this century even when gas was 'cheap' at $2 would I want to pay then $45 to gas up some hog getting 8-18 MPG when there have all along been 40 MPG alternatives costing under $20 grand that were under $20 to fill? Tossing dollars out my sunroof never made me feel like I’d ‘arrived’..) And oh yes, I also made note a few years back that we were in some war being waged in the center of oil patch Iraq. Silly pre-green me but this looked foreboding to me….like a reason to buy a high MPG car several years then as now.

In 2000, I aired a satire of the SUV on NPR's All Things Considered (SUVs in Texas …..in fact Rod linked to it once on this blog…the delivery was pathetic as I was new. But 8 years later the message was spot on. ) How Dallas had the highest consumer profile for 4-wheel drive vehicles despite being the flattest city in America. I had hell placing that piece anywhere despite it being a good piece I was proud of; no newspaper, magazine, wherever…bought it because everyone who was in a position to buy it drove an SUV. Finally when Ford Explorer and Firestone tires began suing one another over rollover deaths in those ‘safe’ SUVs, I got a call and those who had earlier lampooned me and my lampoon …recorded me and aired it two hours later nationally.

I know, I know….Americans needed the room and space...like a station wagon God forbid was a non-starter. (Or later my dumb Scion XB which has more room than an Explorer despite being very little longer than a Mini-Cooper.) Had to be a high-heels lower emission standard w/tax allowance benefit ' government reward (at a time of war) for buying a highest gas consumption ‘safe’ high risk rollover consumer subsidized ‘work vehicle' SUV.

Say what you will about the pluses and minuses of the so-called alternative counter-culture of the so-called baby boom era. All I ever hear about (especially from those who were neither born then nor if they were, involved in the anti-war ear) is drugs sex and rock and roll. That was a big deal, make no mistake. But so was nutrition, whole foods vs. processed crap like I grew up eating…TV dinners and instant mashed potatoes? I learned what constituted a whole protein. How to make and like yogurt. Organic meant something. Vegetarianism was something you explored for reasons of conscience. As was how to eat cheaply and healthily. I learned how to not waste and to re-cycle and care about polluting. Much of this is now, 35-40 years later becoming part of mainstream America’s lexicon.

I do believe in my heart that something good is coming from all this but it saddens me deeply that it took a disastrous forecast and an economic roller coaster and 4$ gallon gas my life for mainstream America to accept what the so-called (and understandably much maligned) ‘counter-culture’ made a common creed 40 years ago. Respect the earth. Resources are God given and should be honored accordingly. Be resourceful; Waste not / Want not.

Earlier this year I had dinner with Rod and this came up and he said then I should write a column about this. Perhaps I just did.

Rock
July 6, 2008 5:35 PM

Rawlins Gilliland,

I drive a Toyota Corolla and live less than 3 miles from work. But my attitude is that if someone wants to buy an expensive SUV that gets 10 miles to the gallon, buy a house located 30 miles away from the workplace and then end up spending a quarter of his or her paycheck on gasoline, I'll let him.

I'd say this to this kind of person:

Don't come wimpering to me about Exxon and Mobil and "price gouging" when you get tired of paying through the nose at the gas pump. Hey, you never complained when gasoline prices were low, so I'm not going to feel too sympathetic when you feel that gasoline prices are too high. If you think the "real" price of gasoline is much lower, let's see how easy it is for you to go and find it at such a low cost. Until recently a gallon of Dr. Pepper cost more than a gallon of gasoline. And I don't think the soft drink industry has to spend billions on carbonated water exploration.

MI
July 6, 2008 5:46 PM

a high tariff on Brazilian sugar cane ethanol makes it uneconomical to sell this fuel in the US, even though it's about eight times as energy efficient as corn ethanol. Lifting this tariff would relieve some of the upward pressure on both food and fuel prices

I'm not sure Brazilian ethanol is the solution to our problems. Consider the acreage required to replace American...

Gasoline consumption: 351,817,804
Transportation fuel: 528,411,132
Oil imports: 484,850,358
Oil consumption: 782,199,992
Oil & NG imports: 556,820,333
Oil & NG consumption: 1,244,322,989
Fossil fuel electricity: 532,199,026
Fossil fuels: 1,698,870,200 (*)

...using sugarcane ethanol from Brazil.

By comparison:

Amazon rainforest: 1,375,000,000 acres
Remaining cerrado (**): 108,453,175

It's also worth wondering whether our relations with Brazil shall remain tranquil indefinitely. Once upon a time, the Mideast was probably considered a stable source of energy imports.

(*) US oil stats: eia.doe.gov/neic/quickfacts/quickoil.html

Other US energy stats: eed.llnl.gov/flow/02flow.php

Conversion factors: bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/energy_conv.html

Per-acre sugarcane yield: earth-policy.org/Books/PB2/PB2ch2_ss5.htm

(**) biodiversityhotspots.org/xp/Hotspots/cerrado/Pages/default.aspx

Bob
July 6, 2008 5:53 PM

But look, what can we do now at the legislative level? I'm not asking rhetorically; I'm serious.

Let's legislate mandatory energy classes for every American. Let's make sure that all Americans understand the nature and scope of their oil addiction. Until all Americans understand their energy predicament, there will always be those who will believe that there is enough oil for all 6 billion on earth to live like the typical American. It's going to take more than mere market forces to drive this point home. Americans need to understand that their per capita oil usage far exceeds that of any other nation on earth. Our military alone uses more oil than the entire country of Greece.

I think if Americans were forced to confront the real truth of their oil addiction, they'd have to come to the conclusion that Wendell Berry was right- we need to reorganize our culture into smaller, more sustainable units, be they family farms, villages or small towns. As Berry said, we simply cannot afford the "long and highly vulnerable lines of communication and supply" of our global economy. We can't depend on importing 2/3 of our oil, coming from oil fields patrolled 24/7 by hundreds of thousands US military personnel. We can't afford to pipe water to our dense urban areas from hundreds of miles away, to ship salads from California and fruit from South America.

We need legislation to foster and protect organic, community supported agriculture and a national rail infrastructure.

Rawlins Gilliland
July 6, 2008 5:56 PM

'Rock'. I see no evidence that you actually read my post.

I can guarantee you, as Rod would be quick to point out, I am hardly some aging remnant from some leftist era. You think when I was National Sales Director for Neiman Marcus...where at morning meetings I would show a handbag that retailed for over $50,000...that I don't know a thing or two about 'free market' economies?

But I also know something on a personal level for decades that others are being forced to learn. And no, at a time of war (in the Middle East, no less) to have my sister and her husband reward with thousands of dollars in tax rebates for buying 'luxury’ SUVs like their Escalade...(that they can't give away now...while people who drove gas conserving cars asked for nor got tax incentives).... is certifiably a Bush era disgrace.

I know many people who have billions of dollars. Some treat resources like they are theirs to squander because they can...the man who built a golf course in the desert?....and others, like my late friend Lou, who was estimated to have billion$$$s...and lived a grand life... but was a role model of respect for finite natural resources and conservation re: the future thereof. (It is through Lou that I first met John McCain whom he like I supported in 1999.) Being 'successful' and 'rich' I learned from him and others...need hardly be synonymous with greed and profligate conspicuous waste abuse of shared resources like water and land.

I remember after Katrina when President Bush asked Americans to conserve gas as the refineries were hit hard. Remember? And I heard Tucker Carlson say angrily what you just said...that free markets meant if someone has the money to buy all the gas he wants then he should be able to do so without the President saying 'no'. So the President was being realistic at a time of crisis but in the name of 'free market economy' was treated like a pariah by his own party when he dared ask us to make even temporary contributing efforts post Katrina.

Hillary Rettig / The Lifelong Activist
July 6, 2008 5:56 PM

"You're going to blame the auto industry for that or the American consumer? He likes it sitting in his driveway, he likes it big, he likes it safe."

Yes, I'll blame the industry, which spent billions convincing consumers that big = better and safer - when in many cases (e.g., rollovers) it's patently not (and spending a lot of money on a fast-depreciating asset like a car is a patent waste anyway). And also millions lobbying congress to derail legislation that would encourage higher gas mileage.

And then get massive tax writeoffs and other government assistance when consumers stop buying their ridiculous products.

Oh, and lays off tens of thousands of workers - but not the execs who made the bad decisions to start with.

Not that SUV buyers get a pass. My favorite comment on all this, by a friend, is that, "Car manufacturers sell SUVs to consumers claiming they are meeting market need. The consumers buy them. Where is the adult in the transaction?"

Rock
July 6, 2008 6:11 PM

Rawlins Gilliland,

'Rock'. I see no evidence that you actually read my post.

I can guarantee you, as Rod would be quick to point out, I am hardly some aging remnant from some leftist era. You think when I was National Sales Director for Neiman Marcus...where at morning meetings I would show a handbag that retailed for over $50,000...that I don't know a thing or two about 'free market' economies?

I don't remember accusing you of not knowing anything about 'free market' economies.

I was simply advocating for the free society and for free consumer choice. I told you how I have made my choices. Toyota Corolla and less than 3 miles from work.

To be honest, I moved from Southern California to Denver, Colorado and I decided to live less than 3 miles from work because, never having driven in the snow before (except for living in Alaska one winter), I wanted to limit the amount of driving I had to do during the snowy season.

As for greed and profligate conspicuous waste, would someone, like me, who drives less than 8,000 miles per year be accused of being profligate and wasteful? How about someone like me who occasionally goes to Outback Steakhouse and orders a Filet Mignon?

It just seems like your more recent post was a little huffy and I'm not sure who is the target of your hostility.

Anonymous
July 6, 2008 6:35 PM

Rock, you are in your words 'advocating for the free society and for free consumer choice'. Which sounds great. Except for what else I wrote about when a 'free market' mentality is used to denigrate (for instance) President Bush when he asked us to conserve post-Katrina. Or the guy I know being allowed to build his private golf course in the desert using God knows how much daily ground water that belongs to others besides him, etc.

This is not a one-size-fits-all topic. I loathe the far left no less than I recoil from the 'it's ours to squander' right. Either extreme is repugnant. But there has been a 'gone wild' mentality from the 80s onward that has confounded me.

Clearly I don't see your personal life here. I, unlike most, know people who have unfathomable sums. As I allude to in the last posts. I know how some low income and high income 'free country' 'free market' types live. Trust me. I could write that book. But I also live a life that is filled with people who are teachers, etc. It's just that I have entree to an ilk most would never see nor know through my years with NM and other odd connections, including my work which is how I met 'Lou'. It's a fascinating look through the looking glass when you see a friend buy a 1.4 million dollar ring for their granddaughter's 13th b'day.

But the super wealthy are not what I set out to discuss. Rather it was the misrepresentation of the good elements of the long ago counter-culture and the overall loss of logic when it came in the post 1980 years to being responsible custodians of our country and its resources. As someone said earlier, SOMEtimes those of that era most easily dismissed as lefties are the true conservatives. Complicated but true. Which is in part what Rod says one way or another in Crunchy Cons.

Rawlins
July 6, 2008 6:39 PM

Above post----Did not realize that only now we must enter our name each new time we post. Otherwise, no name appears at all. Who know. Conserving?

MI
July 6, 2008 6:40 PM

Our military alone uses more oil than the entire country of Greece.

Look, I completely agree that we use too much oil. But the US military's oil consumption of 300-400k bbl/day (*) over the past decade is chump change compared with overall US oil consumption of ~20e6 bbl/day (**). Sink the Navy, ground the air force, and blow up all the Humvees & M1's, and we'll barely make a dent in that total. While I do prefer a less active foreign policy, that's not because I think such a policy will affect our oil addiction in any significant way.

Rock
July 6, 2008 7:00 PM

Rawlins,

I loathe the far left no less than I recoil from the 'it's ours to squander' right. Either extreme is repugnant. But there has been a 'gone wild' mentality from the 80s onward that has confounded me.

Rather it was the misrepresentation of the good elements of the long ago counter-culture and the overall loss of logic when it came in the post 1980 years to being responsible custodians of our country and its resources.

I think the post 1980 years have been, for the most part, great years for the United States of America, in both economic and environmental terms. Back in the 1970s, we were still burning leaded gasoline.

As someone said earlier, SOMEtimes those of that era most easily dismissed as lefties are the true conservatives. Complicated but true. Which is in part what Rod says one way or another in Crunchy Cons.

The more I read about Crunchy Conservatism, the more it seems a lot like Ralph Nader-ism. But, then again, if you ask 5 people for a definition of conservatism, you will probably get 5 different answers. So, the "I'm a true conservative" line doesn't impress me much.

The key question is are you a strong supporter of the free society, of free consumer choice, the free enterprise system and are you an opponent of trade protectionism and forced unionization?

Instead of calling it conservatism, I'll call it free market-ism. Or maybe some other label.

Rock
July 6, 2008 7:05 PM

A related note.

In 1980 when Ronald Reagan was running against President Jimmy Carter and President Carter was arguing for people to conserve energy, Reagan delighted his campaign crowds by joking, "A president who tells you that he enjoys a cold shower will lie about other things."

Great line. No wonder Reagan went on to beat Carter in 44 out of 50 states.

Bob
July 6, 2008 7:10 PM

Look, I completely agree that we use too much oil. But the US military's oil consumption of 300-400k bbl/day over the past decade is chump change compared with overall US oil consumption of ~20e6 bbl/day

That attitude is exactly what we need to change. If that kind of consumption is flippantly dismissed as chump change then you know we have an enormous problem.

The long supply lines are killing us - oil, water, electricity - all piped in from great distances at high costs. Local production and consumption is the answer.

Rock
July 6, 2008 7:18 PM

Bob,

That attitude is exactly what we need to change. If that kind of consumption is flippantly dismissed as chump change then you know we have an enormous problem.

I disagree. I think all of this energy alarmism is the problem, along with those who buy Ford F-150s, live mucho miles away from work and then camplain about a conspiracy by the oil companies to jack up the price of gasoline.

If those fools spent a little time comparing the fuel efficiency of a Honda Civic with their Ford F-150, maybe they wouldn't have to strain their brain cells inventing all kinds of hokey corporate conspiracy theories.

Let's rely on the free market to correctly allocate our energy resources, not top-down command and control policies.

Shame on those people from India. How dare they decide to start buying cars and appliances and bidding up the price of oil?

Sarcasm.

Bob
July 6, 2008 7:32 PM

If those fools spent a little time comparing the fuel efficiency of a Honda Civic with their Ford F-150, maybe they wouldn't have to strain their brain cells inventing all kinds of hokey corporate conspiracy theories.

Yes, and if a frog had wings he could fly. And which hokey conspiracy theories are you talking about - the one blaming speculators, or the ones blaming the enviros for blocking drilling and more refining capacity?

Let's rely on the free market to correctly allocate our energy resources, not top-down command and control policies.

The "free market economy" gave us what we have now - Enron, $145 oil and your fools in their F-150s with the "Bush/Cheney '04" stickers still peeling on the bumper. Are you saying that you want to tinker with our 'free market?'

Shame on those people from India. How dare they decide to start buying cars and appliances and bidding up the price of oil?

Yeah, that's free markets for you.

Rock
July 6, 2008 7:40 PM

Let's unpack this one.

Over the last 25 years, opportunities to head off the current crisis were ignored, missed or deliberately blocked, according to analysts, politicians and veterans of the oil and automobile industries.

The New York Times opposes drilling in ANWR and opposes off shore oil drilling. But it thinks that if only, if only, the US Congress had years ago enacted tougher fuel efficiency standards, this whole mess could have been avoided.

The problem with the government mandated fuel efficiency standards is twofold.

One, if people are willing to dip in to their pockets and pay, with their own hard earned money, for additional gasoline to power their gas guzzling vehicle, it's hard to see why we need a big brother government to tell them that, no, they must by a subcompact instead.

Second, when people get fewer miles to the gallon in their vehicle, the cost of driving a given distance is reduced. Thus, many people respond the way economists would expect, by driving more.

This is why allowing the free market to work, which includes allowing more domestic oil drilling, is the way to go. The Jimmy Carter option isn't much of one.

Rock
July 6, 2008 7:44 PM

Bob,

Free enterprise is the worst economic system, except for every other economic system.

Gasoline consumption in the United States has gone down over the past year. This is due to the workings of the free market.

The Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, even the union state of Michigan has proven that alternatives to the free enterprise system are very good alternatives.

DavidTC
July 6, 2008 8:33 PM

So don't delay act now supplies are running out
Allow if you're still alive six to eight years to arrive
And if you swallow there may be a tomorrow
But if the offer's shunned you might as well be walkin' on the sun

Of course, Smash Mouth said it eleven years ago. (Six to eight years to arrive? They were slightly off.)

Beauss
July 6, 2008 9:14 PM

Rock,

The problem is that energy conservation is critical to the health of our economy. You seem to think of oil as some sort of luxury good that people should be able to buy at will as long as they can afford it when in reality it's a finite resource that's very difficult to replace once there's not enough of it, with dire consequences for the nation as a whole. The point is that we could have saved ourselves a lot of economic distress if we had realized this sooner when acting involved inconveniencing people who like to drive big cars, versus not acting which has left us facing recession and the threat of massive inflation.

Rock
July 6, 2008 10:44 PM

Beauss,

You seem to think of oil as some sort of luxury good that people should be able to buy at will as long as they can afford it when in reality it's a finite resource that's very difficult to replace once there's not enough of it, with dire consequences for the nation as a whole.

That's the whole point of free market economics. It is the best way of allocating limited resources.

In the 1970s, people had to wait in line for hours to get gasoline. So, the time people spent waiting for gasoline was time not spent doing productive activity.

That's why Reagan signed the executive order reversing Nixon's executive order on the price controls for oil and gasoline.

Beauss
July 7, 2008 12:14 AM

The free market may be the best way for allocating limited resources but only when the market recognizes that they are limited.

As you noted above, GM couldn't predict when the price of oil would go up to $145 a barrel (and acted like it never would) but the government could safely assume that it was going to happen sooner or later--especially given the volatility of our major suppliers--and take steps to make sure we were better prepared to react to it.

Plus, the government not only ignored opportunities to ease the transition into a future of limited oil supply, it perversely made things worse. Even if you don't believe that it was the government's role to discourage people from using gas, it's still responsible for encouraging people to consume more through tax incentives, corporate subsidies, land use planning, etc.

Karen Brown
July 7, 2008 1:10 AM

The 'free market' HAS done what they are designed to do with a finite and valuable resource when it is running out, and there will be no more.

Raise the prices so they can make a boatload of cash. Which is, after all, the prime directive of the free market.

When they run out, they'll find another product.

Enjoying their solution, Rock?

MI
July 7, 2008 7:58 AM

Let's rely on the free market to correctly allocate our energy resources, not top-down command and control policies.

Yes, let's, by all means. We can start with internalizing the security costs of imported oil, by figuring what proportion of the US military budget goes towards operations in the Mideast, Africa, & Latin America, and impose a per-barrel tariff on imported oil (and natural gas, and ethanol) roughly equivalent to that cost. In the event that we (say) withdraw from the Mideast, we can keep that tariff in place, to compensate for the risk associated with politically-motivated supply cutoffs (because, Lord knows, the free market's risk-management skills leave something to be desired - see the housing bubble for details).

Then, with oil's true costs properly internalized to US consumers, we can let the free market have a go at it.

Rock
July 7, 2008 8:32 AM

Karen Brown,

Raise the prices so they can make a boatload of cash. Which is, after all, the prime directive of the free market.

When they run out, they'll find another product.

Enjoying their solution, Rock?

I enjoy defending free markets over socialism all the time.

It is certainly better than any alternative. As the world market price of oil has gone up, Americans have been driving less and sales of SUVs have declined, so much so that there are some stories on the business sites about how General Motors might go belly up.

Back in the late 1970s, before I was old enough to drive a car, I remember how Honda and Toyota and Nissan (at that time called 'Datsun') were taking market share away from General Motors and Ford in part because they offered better gasoline mileage.

We all saw how the Soviet Union collapsed, right? We know that free enterprise works better than socialism, right?

If you allow the free market to work, a sense of increased scarcity combined steady demand results in price increase, which continues until the price increases cause over all quantity demanded to drop.

We all learned this in Economics 101, right? Or did some Nader-ite professor teach that course too?

Rock
July 7, 2008 8:38 AM

MI,

The United States actually imports a more oil from Canada than it does from Saudi Arabia.

And the combined tax take of the state and federal governments is larger than the profit rate on a gallon of gasoline. This means that the government actually profits more from the sale of gasoline than do the big, bad oil corporations.

And did you know that a majority of oil deposits are owned by government owned oil companies, not the ones you hear demonized so often?

In other words, an oil company owned by the government of Saudi Arabia owns more oil deposits than Shell oil. Yet, when people whine and whimper about gas prices, they usually single out Shell oil rather than realize the old statements of economics:

Scarce resources

Alternative uses

C'mon. Open up that old dusty economics textbook.

MI
July 7, 2008 9:35 AM

Rock - Imports from Canada don't much bother me. Imports from everywhere else do. I wouldn't have much problem with exempting Canada from an energy tariff, so long as they allowed US customs to patrol for oil smugglers.

Regarding current oil taxes:

1. The gas tax take for May '08 (on an annualized basis) was ~$56E9 - down from a high of $66E9 (annualized) in Aug. '06 (*). If you wish to argue that such amounts approximately equal our annual military expenditures WRT the Mideast, Africa, & Latin America, be my guest.

2. IIRC, a significant proportion of current gas taxes goes towards road construction & maintenance.

Your defense of Shell et al is irrelevant; I don't recall blaming the Big Bad Oil Companies for what's happening. As for government-owned lands...as I've mentioned in posts on other threads, I'm all for allowing the development of ANWR, offshore drilling, & oil shale. I just think that, except for the last, such sources aren't large enough to provide a long-term solution. And that exploitation of such domestic oil ought to be combined with prudent conservation measures (PHEVs, cogeneration, heat pumps, better insulation, etc.), and exploitation of alternate energy sources (nuclear, wind, solar, etc.).

As for economics...granted, I've never formally studied the discipline, but I do seem to recall that increasing the supply of a given good tends to provide incentives for both decreasing demand for that good, increasing the supply of said good, and encouraging the substitution of other goods for said good. If we must decrease US oil consumption (and especially imported oil consumption), simply raising the price of oil via taxation strikes me as a far more market-oriented solution than true "command-and-control" regulatory measures such as CAFE or other attempts to mandate energy efficiency.


(*) tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gaspump.html. For calculating annualized tax take, I assumed annual gas consumption of 140E9 gal. FWIW, it appears that the bulk of the gas price increase over the past year or so appears to come from rising crude oil prices, not from taxes.

Anonymous
July 7, 2008 10:03 AM

"I enjoy defending free markets over socialism all the time."

Who said those were the only two choices? Maybe the other choice is to recognize that the 'free market' is a MARKET, and not a 'solution'. It isn't the free market's JOB to find solutions to social problems, to create new resources, etc. It is the job of human beings to do that. Free markets? They make money. If it isn't something that makes money, the 'free markets' won't do it.

And oil makes a boatload of money. Why would they work to create a cheaper, more plentiful alternative?


"It is certainly better than any alternative. As the world market price of oil has gone up, Americans have been driving less and sales of SUVs have declined, so much so that there are some stories on the business sites about how General Motors might go belly up."

So, apparently our 'free market' car companies aren't automatically doing the right thing, and might, out of greed, apathy, or misreading the situation, go bankrupt instead?

"Back in the late 1970s, before I was old enough to drive a car, I remember how Honda and Toyota and Nissan (at that time called 'Datsun') were taking market share away from General Motors and Ford in part because they offered better gasoline mileage."

You do know that Japan (who you are admitting is beating us, at least in this area) is not exactly a pure 'free market' system, right? There's heavy Government protectionism, etc.

"We all saw how the Soviet Union collapsed, right? We know that free enterprise works better than socialism, right?"

Again, you are making a big assumption. That socialism and communism (and that they are the same thing) are the only alternatives, and that a country's economic system is the only thing that gets things done.

If you allow the free market to work, a sense of increased scarcity combined steady demand results in price increase, which continues until the price increases cause over all quantity demanded to drop.

We all learned this in Economics 101, right? Or did some Nader-ite professor teach that course too?

Anonymous
July 7, 2008 10:11 AM

I took Economics 101, as a matter of fact.

We learned that the free market was about ECONOMICS, and it did such things as assisted in the production of goods and services, and jobs to earn money to purchase those goods and services. And compared it to other systems and how they did those things.

I must've missed those classes where we learned that 'the free market is our savior, and will solve all our problems if we just stand back and let them.

Karen Brown
July 7, 2008 10:12 AM

Oh, and that was me. Darn code. I have to remember to type in those fields now.

Bob
July 7, 2008 10:21 AM

Gasoline consumption in the United States has gone down over the past year. This is due to the workings of the free market.

That is so lame. Every time an armchair libertarian sees something he likes, he attributes it to the "free market." When things don't go his way, he laments the absence of the "free market." "Let the free market take care of it." We might as well say "let them eat cake" for all the good this non-existent free market has done for us lately. Trusting the "free market" has produced a populace that believes that Saddam Hussein destroyed the WTC, a populace that can't find Canada or Saudi Arabia on a map, a populace that thinks that the US an infinite supply of oil that just happens to be under other countries. The "free market" bails out millionaire hedge fund crooks and allows Big Pharma to turn us into a nation of pill-popping couch potatoes.

Trusting in the free market to fix our energy problems is like giving teenagers alcohol and porn and trusting them not to get pregnant.

Franklin Evans
July 7, 2008 10:28 AM

Rock,

You and I have been butting heads rather vigorously lately, so I thought I should post my reaction to your first post on this thread: bull's-eye, sir.

The devil, as they say, is in the details. I think the objections to your arguments are more for the general level of your remarks than for any detailed flaw or omission. I suggest that you consider how the larger details impact your general free-market vs. socialism stance.

The fact is that as a society we simply are not proactive. We are reactive. There has been only one instance where the future was the primary motivation for a federal policy, and that was T. Roosevelt's creation of the national park system. I submit that such a policy shift would be politically (and practically) impossible in this day and age.

So, the question I like to ask is this: can our free market leaning be justified for the long list of catastrophes to which it has contributed, from the '29 crash to the spate of "scandals" of the last 15 years, not to mention the ones in the 19th century. Is there truly an overall benefit to society in an unregulated (or worse, regulated but unenforced) economy that permits predators' making a killing at the expense of the rest of us? When does rich become too rich? How do we measure it?

DavidTC
July 7, 2008 11:42 AM

MI
Yes, let's, by all means. We can start with internalizing the security costs of imported oil, by figuring what proportion of the US military budget goes towards operations in the Mideast, Africa, & Latin America, and impose a per-barrel tariff on imported oil (and natural gas, and ethanol) roughly equivalent to that cost.

No shit. (Can I say that here?)

Let's let the free market of OPEC, without any threats, agreements, or even polite requests by our government, set the price of oil. What's more, let's use a time machine to do that for the last two decades.

Oh, look, gasoline has always cost three times as much, and the entire layout of cities are different.

And, Rock, talking about the 'taxes' on gasoline is also very stupid. The taxes on gasoline almost entirely go to paying for roads. (And mass transit so we don't have to build as many roads.) We'd have almost exactly the same result if we'd not had taxes on gasoline and did have tolls on roads to pay for them, except that would be a lot more work to collect. You can't just wave your hand and assert the government makes 'more profit' on gasoline than oil companies. Yeah, and they make exactly the same amount of loss on roads.

In much the same way, the post office makes a huge profit on stamps. They cost almost nothing to print, it's incredibly unfair they sell them for such a high cost.


But, anyway, I'm starting to suspect Rock cannot be serious. No one can possibly argue silly libertarian free market crap about oil prices and be against any sort of tariffs and argue the gas tax is unfair and believe we should intervene randomly around the globe wherever we feel like it. (How exactly do you justify invading a country cause the government doesn't operate how you like, but not taxing imports from them more? How exactly should we pay for roads?)

There are a lot of silly conservative ideas, but even I will admit they don't normally all end up in the same person, and I'm beginning to think Rock is a troll.

Franklin Evans
July 7, 2008 12:27 PM

"Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."

John Fitzgerald Kennedy

I submit that corporations are in most need of this attitude shift, and most likely to see it as a marketing boost when their customers turn a blind eye to the disservice corporations have done and are capable of doing to our country in exchange for all of the things the country is doing for them.

Doing the right thing is bad for profits, q.e.d.

forestwalker
July 7, 2008 4:47 PM

"But it's not just a Louisiana thing. In today's NYTimes, there's a long story about how the current oil crisis afflicting the US was largely preventable."

This country made the choice 28 years ago to label responsible action "malaise" and to close their eyes and put their faith in Big Daddy's morning in America.

Z
July 7, 2008 6:44 PM

Well Rock, there are some problems with looking at oil and gas from a free society and free market perspective. It just isn't that free. OPEC is a cartel that does price fixing. There are externalities (pollution and their associated health costs, etc) that aren't priced into oil. Plus, there is political manipulation which interferes with the action of a free market. Some examples are tariffs, tax breaks given to SUV purchases for 'business' purposes, etc. The worst part about is that some of the legislators who trumpet free-market practices are the first to slap together legislation to manipulate the markets in favor of corporate contributors.

Rock
July 7, 2008 10:35 PM

Z,

Agreed.

My point is that when politicians start talking about price controls, I remember when I was in junior high school and we had to wait in line for hours for gasoline. I remember telling an older relative that in ten years there would be no more gasoline and believing it. I was listening to many of President Jimmy Carter's speeches. So, maybe my pessimism was understandable.

Post a Comment

By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.



Please type the text you see in the box below to verify your post and help us prevent spam. You have a limited time to type - you may wish to compose your comment in a separate document and paste it here upon completion.

Type the characters you see in the picture above.

Advertisement

Search This Blog

About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

feed icon Subscribe

RSS Feed

Receive updates from Crunchy Con

Advertisement

Advertisement


About Beliefnet

Our mission is to help people like you find, and walk, a spiritual path that will bring comfort, hope, clarity, strength, and happiness. More about Beliefnet.

Legal

Copyright © Beliefnet, Inc. and/or its licensors. All rights reserved. Use of this site is subject to Terms of Service and to our Privacy Policy. Constructed by Beliefnet.

Advertisement

Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.