Tony Snow dies of cancer

God bless Tony Snow. I'm quite serious about that.

I'm also quite serious about this: God save the rest of us from the consequences of the administration he served. Really!

MargaretE:
I don't claim to be a saint. I'm just being honest about my personal feelings.
I wouldn't wish cancer on Dick Cheney as much as a I loath the guy.
I don't believe in hell and think we all go to rest with God eventually.
God bless you and maybe you're calling me out in a proper way. I really don't know.

Just pay your respects to the man.. He was one of the most moral men in public service.. LEAVE THE POLITCS OUT OF IT!!!
I am speechless.. Why even say anything else???

What a man does with his life matters. That's why. For good and for bad, people will discuss the summary of his time spent here and the work he has left behind.

Let me elaborate. (I was the anonymous poster at 9:33 pm.) Here's what Rod said:

God bless him. He was one of the good guys. Even those who didn't share his politics loved and respected him for his personal decency and kindness. We should all aspire to be more like him.

And some commenters were annoyed that politics came up rather than unreserved appreciation for the man.

I don't doubt at all that Snow was a decent and kind man. In fact, that is my impression, on a personal and human level, of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, and many others in this administration. I'm sure if I were to sit down with them and shoot the breeze, it would be mutually enjoyable. They seem to be very kind and personable.

But that's not the point. This administration has been disastrous. And while Tony Snow was charming the press, people were being tortured. And thousands upon thousands of people (mainly Iraqis) have died because of the war we unleashed.

To just say nice things about Snow does not seem appropriate to me. He chose to join this administration. He might be a decent guy - he certainly seemed that way - but this administration has been nothing short of malevolent. That should go in Snow's obituary, niceness notwithstanding.

For what it's worth, I say this as a disgruntled Republican.

I am saddened by the lack of humility and simple human compassion on this blog...couldn't we at least try some forgiveness? If not here, where?

Try the P.Z. Myers thread. The milk of human kindness floweth over.

>I don't believe in hell and think we all go to rest with God eventually.

You may not believe in hell, but Snow contributed significantly to helping create hell on earth for millions of innocent people.

He never expressed remorse, so why should anyone forgive him?

Then he left his "most moral" job because he claimed his family couldn't live on the $160K+ salary.

His morally bankrupt life exemplifies the moral bankruptcy of the administration he served, and that of the modern Republican party in general.

You folks who now admit that you were wrong about the Iraq war are far more moral than he ever was - that must be some cognitive dissonance that allows you to admit that the war he shilled for was evil, but his own actions somehow were not.

Martha - your point make sense, but doesn't negate the fact that he earned a fabulous living promoting evil. Most of the cruelty and pain in the world, as far as I can tell, is justified by people saying they need to support their families. At the same time, there are many people who make a better choice, even if it results in less immediate comfort. And - not talking about you, personally, Martha - but as an atheist, I'm always amused by theists who supposedly believe in the soul and an afterlife and judgment, but live their lives based on expediency.

Hillary

But there must be something attracting this kind of nastiness to this blog lately.

Yes, what could attract such nastiness to such a noble, altruistic endeavor? It's almost like someone is trying to attract these nasty trolls because their clicks mean more revenue. Surely that's not it.

this nasty tone was never taken about Tim Russert, and there's one simple explanation for that. Russert had the right politics. Excuse me – the left politics.

Uh, no. Russert got criticized plenty for giving Cheney and his ilk an open mike to sell the WMD koolaid. You just chose to ignore that so you could get your panties in a wad over Tony Snow. FAce it, he was a paid shill for the most corrupt, deceitful administration in US history.

It's a drag for anyone to get cancer and die. But premature death does not give you a 'get out of hell free' card for willfully dissembling.

MargaretE -

I try not to scoff at anyone - but please don't test me by referring to "the Christian virtues of humility and forgiveness." Do you not detect a wee bit of irony in using an arrogant phrase like that to accuse me of a lack of humility? Or do you actually believe that Christians invented and/or perfected humility and forgiveness?

"But your eagerness to accuse a good, much-loved man of purposely "promoting evil" for profit – especially when you can't possibly know that for a fact"

I am eager not to let the crimes of this administration and its minions be buried in time and in lies. It is a fact that Snow shilled for Faux News, and he shilled for an evil administration, and he didn't do it for free. Those are facts, Margaret, that your bias against me doesn't invalidate.

Hill

Hillary, I have no bias against you. And you're right in pointing out the irony in my accusing you of not being humble. I apologize for that. But what bothers me deeply is the ease with which you (and plenty of others here) condemn a fellow human being whose complex story you can't possibly know. You say Tony Snow was a shill for an evil administration. I say he was press secretary for an administration he believed in. Was he mistaken or misguided? Perhaps. (Though I think branding an entire administration "evil" is a bit of a stretch.) Did he believe the administration he worked for was evil? I honestly don't think he did. Could I be wrong about that? Sure. The point is, I don't know what was in Tony Snow's heart or mind. All I have are the testimonies of hundreds of people who knew him personally and/or professionally, all of whom thought he was a wonderful, honorable person. (This was said of Snow long before he died, and by people from both sides of the political divide.) Those testimonies count for something in my eyes.

For the poster who wrote, "Premature death doesn't give you a get-out-of hell-free card," I would say: If you actually believe in hell, then you must know that the fate of Tony's Snow's soul hardly depends on your judgment.

Remember how the other day when Ted Kennedy returned to the senate he got a standing ovation -- from everyone, even his GOP opponents? And as much as I loathe his politics, I was actually glad to see that he was doing well and back at work.

Funny how the trolls here don't get that kind of thing. Or maybe it's not so funny, when ideology triumphs over basic human compassion and decency.

Arrgh! Sorry about the triple posts. It was not intentional.

Margaret - thanks for your comment. I really appreciated both your tone and content; you wrote some stuff I will ponder. Yes, we all lead complex lives, and we are all, all of us, a jewel in our own way and deserve compassion. I get that, and try to operate from that principle, and maybe I'm failing relative to Snow. But I think this administration and this war have legitimately earned the label "evil" and so Snow's actions have earned the same label.

I also understand that Snow didn't see the work he did as evil. Rationalization seems to be one of the human race's supreme talents. Goldhagen wrote an entire book called "Hitler's Willing Executioners" about how ordinary German people came up with all kinds of ways to justify their active involvement in the Nazi killing machine. I'm sure this group included many loving family men and women who didn't see their work as evil, either.

So saying that someone doesn't recognize their actions as evil isn't a good benchmark for deciding whether they were, or how valuable or good that person was as a person. Basically, that kind of moral relativism can lead us straight into the void.

I also can't help wondering, if you and Snow's other defenders were actually forced to live with the results of what he did - live the life of an Iraqi exile - home and business lost, father killed, daughter prostituting herself to feed family - or the life of an Iraqi woman who, for the first time, must wear a burka or risk assassination - or a tortured innocent at Guatanamo - I wonder if you would have any question at all on how evil the whole enterprise has been - and how long it would take you to conclude "Wait, this is evil." A day? An hour? Five minutes?

What this administration did - what Snow helped it do - was kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people - not to mention 4K+ American soldiers - and destroy the lives of millions of others so a small group of Bush's oil company cronies could get no-bid contracts for Iraq's oil (from Bob Herbert's 7/1 NYT column):

Two weeks ago, The Times reported that four Western oil giants were on the verge of signing no-bid contracts that would return them to Iraq, the third-most bountiful petroleum playground on the planet. The deals, expected to be finalized in the next 30 days, were the kind of news that big oil lives for.

Giddy executives singing “Oh Happy Day” could be heard in the corporate offices of Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP, which had been shut out of Iraq for three and a half decades.

We also learned this week that a group of American advisers, led by a team from the State Department, played a key role in drawing up the contracts between the companies and the Iraqi government. Chevron and several smaller oil companies are also on the verge of signing contracts.

What could be more evil than to kill hundreds of thousands so that a few may profit? Recall that, during the looting in the early days of the war, the US govt left the fabled Iraqi national museum totally unguarded, as well as numerous government offices, hospitals, utilities, etc. - but managed to guard the Oil Ministry. Their priorities was clear from the first.

What I find surprising about the conservatives I run into these days is that they vociferously defend people who are clearly their moral inferiors, and probably their inferiors in many other ways as well. Would you, Margaret, behave the way Bush, etc., did? Would you lie to get us into a war - and keep lying about it? Would you torture? Would you give your friends no bid contracts so they can corruptly profit from devastation you have caused? (Most of us don't countenance no-bid deals in our school boards or local governments; why is it acceptable here?) Vonnegut labeled this behavior "psychopathic," and I think he's right.

Would you question the morality and patriotism of those who disagreed with you? Would you mock Kerry's purple heart? Would you condemn Clinton's infidelities while secretly having had many yourself? Would you call your "friends" (subordinates, really, who can't object) by demeaning nicknames like "turd blossom?" What would you think of someone you happened to run into who did?

Would you deprecate gay marriage saying that "both parents are important in the success of a family" after having abandoned your disabled wife - the one who waited loyally for you while you were a POW - and three kids for an heiress half your age? Would you say Americans are "whiners" who are making up stories about how the economy is faltering, despite enormous evidence that it really is?

I could list dozens of more examples. I know from your response to me that you are a thoughtful, compassionate person who can acknowledge her mistakes and is serious about engaging in dialog. We are all human and all flawed - I have certainly made more mistakes than I would like, and keep making them. But the actions above are really on a different plane of psychopathology and extreme hypocrisy. If you yourself are not operating on that level, then why defend people who are - especially when the stakes are literally life or death?

Thanks for your post, and for listening,
Hillary

Old Sue - your definition of rationalization is wrong - it's a well-characterized psychological defense mechanism - but the rest of your post is compelling. Hillary