Democrats Don Fowler, Michael Moore cheer Gustav

Well, I'm liberal as they come, but I'll still start us off by saying that that's about as crappy as it gets. You really wonder if there's anyone in power in this nation that actually deserves to be so.

I can't say I'm thrilled with the ubiquity of video cameras everywhere. Truthfully, if people were held to every stupid-ass off-handed comment they make, we'd all be in a world of hurt. But you would hope that public officials, having seen the devastation last time, would have the good common sense to not act this way.

I don't remember where I read it, but I have to agree that it's about time we stopped debating who's side God is on, and began to get on the side of God.

JPL, I appreciate your comments, and you'll be pleased, perhaps, to see that I took the Fowler video down. He did say it, and it's being reported on cable news, but I had second thoughts about making this video available on my site. You might remember my feeling uneasy about Jesse Jackson's being caught on a mike he didn't think was hot, trashing Obama. I thought about stupid and regrettable things I've said before, and say often, that I would die a thousand deaths if it got secretly filmed and broadcast on the Internet. This is not a good trend, and I regret having had that video on my site.

Those comments were pretty disgusting. As I noted on an earlier thread, people who lived during the time of the American Revolution saw hurricanes as a sign of God's punishment for sin, particularly the tyranny of the British.

But, they were talking about first principles when they looked at hurricanes as divine intervention, nor did they applaud when they hit; this is an example of nasty partisanship that would willingly see cities crushed and people die to celebrate the downfall of an opposing political party. Disgusting.

Author, "Hurricane of Independence"

This Democrat is 100% with you on this one. Moore's and Fowler's comments are despicable--and stupid.

Wow, these are the types of comments neocons have been getting away with for years Michael Moore is a jerk, the Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity of the left

Still, I have to think this was a joke on his part.

These people are horrible. I lost my home to Hurricane Rita. We are on the gulf coast making preparations to leave. This effects all my family. I would not wish what we are going to experience on anyone not even what we went through with Rita. The thought of how non caring these educated men are! Just the same ol liberal thinking. It was a democrat Governor of Louisiana and a democrat mayor of New Orleans that created havoc post Katrina. They refused help from Pres. Bush for assistance prior to Katrina.
Phyl

I commend you on not posting the video, the footage isn't from a mass event but a private converstion and should be respected as that; no matter how stupid and callus is was to say.
No one in that whole region deserves to have to go through what they have and what they are about to endure and fight to survive.

Good grief, Watcher, you manage to scream even when you aren't screaming. Why do you want to be that way? And you, Scott R., why do you want to be that way? Why do y'all seem to think people who disagree with you are not only wrong, but scummy demons? I don't hate people who disagree with me. Do most people hate those who ? I don't think so. Maybe I'm wrong.

All I'm saying is that it must be exhausting to live at such a high emotional pitch. Again: why do you want to be that way?

Dear Phyl,

Guys like these two prove that one can go to school yet remained uneducated. I wanted to tell you not to worry about the few miserable miscasts say; millions and millions of us care about you and all our fellow Americans along the Gulf Coast. God bless and stay safe. From New England, praying for calm seas and fair winds for our friends in the South.

I am apalled at comments made by Micheal Moore and Don Fowler. I have family in LA and my son there is a police officer, so he will be out in the danger rescuing others and is struggling to make arrangements for his family to be safe. How dare they even make the connection that God is intervening for a political party. I pray heavily for my family and their safety and I pray for those who are so ignorant that they have no clue who God really is. May God have mercy on their souls.

Don't you all remember the prayers that were called for prior to the Democratic National Convention asking God for a soaking, camera-obscuring rain during Senator Barack Obama's outdoor acceptance speech?

And then it later said that it was actually just a joke. It probably was a joke, at least halfway, and so was this private conversation. GOOD GRIEF!!! Good grief!!! Good grief you people, stop hating already! Please.

You know they say . . . be careful what you pray for . . . you might get what you asked for.

Maybe "God" is the one with a sense of humor here!!! After all, We Are All One as God expressing/experiencing God's Self, whether most little spirits-as-human-beings know it yet or not, and it's raining on all of us all the time, whether we know it or not.

Love and LOTS of Light,

Phyllis

"After all, We Are All One as God expressing/experiencing God's Self, whether most little spirits-as-human-beings know it yet or not, and it's raining on all of us all the time, whether we know it or not."

Uh...what?

To suggest a possible silver lining, it would actully help the Republicans if the Bush and Cheney can't come to the convention.

I think the Republican convention is going to look pretty lame in comparison to the DNC anyway.

Much of this a response to Dobson: Pray for Biblical Rain during Obama's Speech!

Trying to be bi-partisan with Democrats is like going to the negotiating table with the north vietnamese who negotiated ONLY when they were in an inferior position and resumed hostilities as soon as they were re-armed. In this CRUCIAL election, Republicans had better declare all out war on the Democratic party because they would love nothing more than to CRUSH the Republicans in November and if they could have it, a FAR LEFT Democrat only government.

If this wasn't bad enough, Jody Bottum over at the "First Things" blog has put the spotlight on some really nasty and vicious left-wing stuff that is showing up on Daily Kos about Gustav.

Bottum's blog entry is entitled, "The Price of Blood" (dated 8-31-08) and can be read here: http://www.firstthings.com/blog/

BTW, I'll admit this is a weird hour to be posting but I fell asleep yesterday evening (after a long day working) and woke up around 11 PM and can't sleep !!

JPL, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and put you in the minority of libs who isn't a hater.

But that being said, it's hardly any secret that flaming hatred is a large segment of the motivation of the modern liberal. And that's too bad.

Do you not recall Gore's rants about how Republicans want to "kill old people and starve babies"?

Do you not read the endless rantings about how W Bush and Cheney are worse than the devil himself? And none of it is substantive policy or even ideological argument - it's just flaming hatred. I don't hate anyone, so please don't trot out the old "projection" nonsense on me. I'm not like the lib who posted on DU a while back, that she was stopping to help a stranded motorist with some children until she saw the "Bush" bumpersticker on her car, and instead drove off.

I seem to recall a few years back, a lot of yelling from the left, about how conservatives were clinic bombers and doctor killers and other such nonsense... It sort of worked for while, until the people got tired of it and it backfired. It wasn't true, and EVERYONE knew that, including the accusers.

But go read the other writers on this site. Follow the discussions among the readers, and what you'll find is that the vast majority of Beliefnet writers ARE perfectly willing to morally condemn anyone for failing to vote pure Democrat. Oh, they say they're not "partisan" but object to any liberal wackoness and you're immediately condemned... and the censors never, EVER seem to bother anyone hating from the left.

Rod's the token guy... And sad to say, one of the weakest examples of a conservative writer... In that he's always trying to be "accomodating" and "nice", and all it results in is that his attempts to be accomodating get used as evidence he thinks he's wrong.

I USED to be a liberal. A good many years ago, that is. But I changed. I went through some real hell in my life and it profoundly changed my thinking. Wandering in an intellectual abyss was bad enough that I decided I had to pick some serious principles and stick to them no matter where they led. I did that. It wasn't overnight, but I could not reconcile my beliefs in a lot of "liberal" ideals with modern liberalism.

Equality under the law. Colorblindness. The sacred honor and privelidge of self government. The horror that truly is living under a tyranny.

I was an avid reader when young, and read extensively of life under the Nazi's, the Communists, and other tyrannies of note of the last 3 centuries. I came to hold self government, my liberties, my freedoms, the full integrity of the Constitution as things which ARE NOT up for negotiation or discussion. Honor those or meet my opposition, backed by a belief it is worse than death to live without freedom. Further, that it is immoral to NOT work without ceasing to spread that freedom to every person possible.

Is it immoral to see a man starve and not share your food? If so, it is also immoral to see him suffer tyranny and NOT remove the tyrant, if you have the power to do so.

So, if you don't want to be part of that flaming hatred crowd... then by all means distance yourself. And if you're not the people being addressed, then don't consider yourself addressed.

Once upon a time, a "liberal" was one who believed in diversity of ideas, ideology, tolerance for disagreement, and a devotion to human liberty, freedom, and dignity. They were intolerant of hatred and prejudices, be it race, religion, social class, or any other constructed division. They believed in peace by righteous force and that liberty was only maintained by eternal vigilance and every kind of strength, military, personal, and moral.

I suppose I am THAT kind of liberal. But it bears no resemblance to the modern liberal, the modern left, nor the Democrat party. Along the way, I have learned by experience and observation, that limited government is absolutely indispensable to maintaining liberty, dignity, strength, and respect for the individual.

I have found that modern conservatives are far more in tune with such thinking than modern liberals. Modern liberals seem to have none of those things in mind anymore. Just a naked and obsessive drive for absolute power.

Ok, so I guess you can't use the strike tag here. I put that around "liberals" in the italicized quote above.

There's a very fine line at which righteous indignation at the failures of others -- whether real or imagined -- turns into self-serving glee at how one will oneself benefit from those failures, with no regard for those who will suffer from them, with no regard for the suffering that justified the indignation to begin with.

The Democratic party and much (but not all) of the broader left have crossed this line again and again in the past eight years, especially with regard to Iraq and Hurricane Katrina -- and now it seems they may do so again with regard to Hurricane Gustav.

I don't expect any better at all from the Republican party, though some (but not all) of the broader right do give me hope.

Those who volunteer for community service and those engage in acts of organized and personal charity tend to be more toward the right than toward the left -- speaking now in very general terms. It's no coincidence for example that Rod posts about the Boy Scouts mobilizing in advance of Gustav -- the Boy Scouts who are constantly sneered at by those on the left for being "old-fashioned" and "uncool" for being "homophobic" and "sexist" and "militaristic" in ways that cancel out all the good that they do.

The difference here is the difference between moral outsourcing and personal responsibility.

The Boy Scouts (and Girl Scouts) among us will do what they have always done at times like this.

The Cool Kidz on the left, by contrast, will risk overplaying their hand very badly if they try to use Hurricane Gustav to their electoral advantage -- particularly in light of what will probably be the conspicious absence of most of them from any real effort to help those who will suffer from this latest storm.

This insults Voltaire and Rousseau, but to paraphrase Blake: "Mock on, mock on, Fowler and Moore!"

If you're willing to speak in public (travel by plane is public transportation), then anything you say can be overheard by anyone who is listening. Especially, if by definition of your occupation, you are a public servant.

Don Fowler's words are rightfully in the public domain. There should be no shame in sharing them.

The shame should come from the fact that the person recording the conversation must fear his equipment being confiscated or destroyed should those being recorded notice it. If they're so afraid of the implications of what their true beliefs being known, then (a) they shouldn't share them public and (b) they shouldn't hold elected office.

Watcher, your own commentary belies your later stated position. In an earlier post, you said this:

I spent a good decade being the "nice guy" online debating libs. Then I realized that they just hated us. Not all, just the wild-eyed ranting and raving types like Gore, Moore, Pelosi, Carville, and so on.

And the rest just think we're morally defective. And they've intimidated you into thinking you have to be "nice" and gain brownie points. No, it doesn't work. It's like republicans compromising with Democrats. They lose, and get nothing whatsoever in return. No amount of being nice to the Daniel types, for instance, will EVER make him anything but contemptuous of you.

There's nothing to be gained with "bipartisanship", with people who have no integrity or personal honor. They have only one interest... destroying you politically, personally, financially, and socially."

Now, although you clearly mark a difference between the "wild-eyed ranting and raving types" and other Democrats, in your very next paragraph you state that "the rest just think we're morally defective". THE REST. That means ALL the other Democrats. And they've "intimidated" you into being nice. And Republicans should NEVER compromise with Democrats. Not some...all.

You paint the entire party, and liberals in general, with one ugly, hateful brush...you just paint some a darker hue than others.

I see nothing that implies you could accept that people could have very different ideas than you, and still be decent human beings, acting in good faith, who only wish the best for the nation and the world.

And you mention again and again the liberal hatred directed towards Bush, Cheney, Rove, etc. And of course you're right. But I fail to find any mention of the similar hatred and loathing directed at the Clintons, Kerry, Gore, Obama and their ilk by Republicans of all stripes, from the Ann Coulter's of the world down to just workplace commentary.

The reality is that hatred, loathing, venemous insult and exaggerated self-righteousness exist fully bloomed on both sides of the political aisle, and everywhere in between. Liberals and conservatives alike are reaping what they have sown with one another, and our nation is the worse for it. We are becoming like Yugoslavia before the civil war that destroyed the nation...each group growing in hatred and loathing for the others, fed by the talking heads in the media.

As you have done for me, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you don't feel within the way your words register here. But at least from your rhetoric here, you come off as an angry, hateful, bitter man, who wants only to see his opponents utterly destroyed...the very thing you accuse them of feeling towards you. That sure sounds like projection.

And it's worth noting that I'm hardly the only person who thinks so...Rod called you on it as well. And he and I don't exactly see I to I. Maybe you just come off different than you actually feel.

For what it's worth, I think you for taking the time to write civil answers, and explain more fully your position, and I respect the passion with which you hold them, while disagreeing with some of your conclusions. In agreement with you, I'll note that many, many liberals are certainly just as hate-filled as you describe, and I'll strive to resist becoming part of their ranks.

"UPDATE: In an earlier version of this post, I had the video up, but reconsidered. I don't have a good feeling about a world in which a stranger can record a conversation on an airplane and put it on the Internet. If you want to see it, you can see it. But look for it yourself. Sorry I put it up earlier."

Spare me...not another self-righteouness "Conservative". And save the pontifications on so called "privacy rights". This man had no expectation of privacy. None whatsoever.

But I tell 'ya what...Put your puffed up ego where your mouth is...
Join all the Leftists and condemn You Tube for posting this video.
Explain to them that your moral sensibilities are sooo very offended by this infringement of "privacy". Indeed, tell them YOU "don't have a good feeling" about it. That'll make an impression.

And while you're at it...

Apologize to Don Fowler, apologize to Barack Obama & the DNC, apologize to Apple & Sony, apologize to the victims of this potential catastrophy, apologize to the thousands of responders who have left their families to give aid...APOLOGIZE to the entire living universe (gasp! the horror, the shame of it all)that we must live in "a world in which a stranger can record a conversation on an airplane and put it on the Internet." And be sure to tell them that YOU don't feel "good about it".

That'll change the course of history in a heartbeat.

Dude, I was making fun of my own post. Jeez, have a heart.

ecretly recorded by the guy sitting behind him on an airplane?

You people are creeps. At least he didn't pray for rain and not rain of Biblical proportions. That was your conservative evangelicals and it looks like the Gulf Coast is going to get it. Time to pray for forgiveness.

As Obama said on Thursday: "If this is to be an ownership society, it is time for the GOP to start owning its failures."

Katrina would be a good place to start.

You are taking what Moore said out of context. He says he really hopes the storm dies out over the sea. His post was SATIRICAL. He doesn't want anything to actually happen to anybody. Read the actual post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/an-open-letter-to-god-fro_b_122800.html

Nothing new under the sun:

"Oftener, however, its credibility rested on the faith of some lonely eye-witness, who beheld the wonder through the coloured, magnifying, and distorted medium of his imagination, and shaped it more distinctly in his after-thought. It was, indeed, a majestic idea that the destiny of nations should be revealed, in these awful hieroglyphics, on the cope of heaven. A scroll so wide might not be deemed too expensive for Providence to write a people's doom upon. The belief was a favourite one with our forefathers, as betokening that their infant commonwealth was under a celestial guardianship of peculiar intimacy and strictness."

my favorite of Nathaniel Hawthorne's flourishes of the pen, decribing the vision of a meteor in the night sky over colonial Boston in "The Scarlet Letter" the Puritan fans of the recently-deceased Governor seeing the initial letter "A" of Angel, while the sin-sick soul of Rev Dimmesdale recognized the mirror image of the wound on his breast... "A"dulteror

I've just been through Gustav, we caught the eastern side of the eyewall. I was on the fence about who to vote for - not anymore. In fact I plan on campaigning for McCain.

As for Fowler, well if Hanna makes it to North Carolina, I'm sure it's because God has found favor with his crass remarks. And Moore, well, here's looking forward to the day he drops dead of a coronary from hauling that excess blubber around with him (and no, I don't mean his wife, although I guess it's as apt a description of her as any).