It's all Greek to Barack Obama

Rod,

I'd say that the mole is from Hillary's side. She wants the Cherry Blossom Throne bad enough to try again in 2012 after McCain utterly destroys the Republican party forever.

I'm curious. Would you find it any less pretentious for him to make the speech from a stage backed by a 50X100 US flag, or by 100 US flags? How about making it from the flight deck of a carrier at sea?

For some reason conservatives have a problem with theatrics when Democrats do it, but seem quite content when Republicans do it.

Maybe you would prefer he give his acceptance speech from the sofa of his living room?

Substance...for the love of Pete, can we talk about substance for once? Here's something that might get a good discussion going...

www.watoday.com.au/opinion/who-is-behind-climate-change-deniers-20080802-3ou6.html?page=-1

"When the tobacco industry was feeling the heat from scientists who showed that smoking caused cancer, it took decisive action.

It engaged in a decades-long public relations campaign to undermine the medical research and discredit the scientists. The aim was not to prove tobacco harmless but to cast doubt on the science.

In May this year, the multibillion-dollar oil giant Exxon-Mobil acknowledged that it had been doing something similar. It announced that it would cease funding nine groups that had fuelled a global campaign to deny climate change."

How many of these companies that are engaging in obfuscation of science are supporting political candidates, and which candidates are they supporting?

Just making sure I'm clear on this: it's okay if Bush uses Greek temples but not Obama?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Bushs_2004_temple.html

Hmmm... I don't think Greco-Roman architecture has ever been used in America. Nope, never.

Neil,

I say this as someone who has loathed Dubya since 2002: those two sets are not the same. They're not even in the same ballpark. The Bush set looks like the neoclassical stuff you see in DC. It's muted by the usual red, white and blue backgrounds, and it's in a relatively smaller convention hall. The Obama set (according to the picture Smith linked to) looks like the freakin' Parthenon. It's in the middle of gigantic stadium and it's standing alone. That may change by tonight, but right now, it looks pretty silly. It's pure satirical gold.

DonF: I'm curious. Would you find it any less pretentious for him to make the speech from a stage backed by a 50X100 US flag, or by 100 US flags? How about making it from the flight deck of a carrier at sea?

'Nuff said!!

Rod, have you ever been to Monticello, Jefferson's home? How about UVa, which Jefferson designed, and includes something called "The Rotunda"?

How about making it from the flight deck of a carrier at sea?

So Obama should present himself as the left-wing version of Dubya? How's that going to help?

Bush did the same thing in 2004; cf. http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Bushs_2004_temple.html

Did you criticize Bush at the time for doing so? You care more about the Republican party than you do about reason. Shame on you.

Our federal buildings were all Greco-Roman until the International Style set in.

And all gummints try to deck themselves out in the togas, as it were, of their forebears.

BFD.

Actually making the speech from the flight deck of an aircraft carrier would make far more sense for Obama, if only because there is no more potent a symbol of raw, American power in the world. It could work for him, or it might be a "Dukakis in the Tank" moment, but this Greek temple thing is downright silly and if Zeus hits him with lightning we'll have to endure the Democrat's nominating process all over again!

Of course maybe after the convention he can head down to New Orleans, and when Jindal's attempt to chase the hurricane away with an exorcism fails, he can part the incoming seas.

Paul, seeking wisdom: "If you can't criticize Obama for what he stands for ..."

Which, of course, begs the questions: (1) Which Obama are we talking about (the "post-racial healer" of the new politics ... or the sharp-elbowed, deal-cutting, throw-grandma-under-the-bus opportunist)? (2) And, oh yes, what EXACTLY does he stand for?

As to Rod's post on the Greek columns and Obama's stage on Thursday night, can't a "crunchy con" have a little fun?

Also, please explain to me how Greek columns are Messianic, Rod.

I don't recall Jesus doing much of his speechifying in front of columns. Obama might be doing a lot of things, but it is Rove, or at least his proteges that run McCain's campaign, that keep trying to stuff column-shaped pegs into rood-shaped holes.

Furthermore, what background would the GOP suggest Barack use? What would be humble enough? A brick wall? A corn field? The real question is: Not matter how Barack chose to deliver his speech, would there have been any scenario that the GOP Noise machine would not have attacked, and tried to cram into the "Obama is arrogant/Obama wants to be the Lord God" meme? I think we both know the answer to that question is no. He's going to be criticized no matter what. Which is fine. That's what happens in campaigns. It's just instructive to see that as far as criticism goes, this is the best they can do.

It's all just sour grapes from McCain, too, who couldn't sell out the Denver Elk Lodge with a 2-for-1 deal and an open bar.

Greek temple my...er...foot.

He's having another shot at Kennedy's Brandenburg Gate backdrop. The Europeans wouldn't let him have it, so he's making a stage-set version...

Also, please explain to me how Greek columns are Messianic, Rod.

Because it could like he's descending from Mt. Olympus.

I don't recall Jesus doing much of his speechifying in front of columns.

Do you remember Jesus speechifying at all? If so, that's pretty impressive. What's your secret?

Obama might be doing a lot of things, but it is Rove, or at least his proteges that run McCain's campaign, that keep trying to stuff column-shaped pegs into rood-shaped holes.

Reuters reported the story. Is Reuters on Rove's payroll?

Furthermore, what background would the GOP suggest Barack use?

The same background as every other speaker was using. You don't want the speech to be about the background, and that's what is happening.

Let me put it this way: Obama should be 10-20 pts ahead of his adversary by any reasonable measure. But because of a number of miscues, many of his own making, he's either tied or slightly behind in the polls. Taking a "fashion risk" at this point is not a good idea.

.It's all just sour grapes from McCain, too, who couldn't sell out the Denver Elk Lodge with a 2-for-1 deal and an open bar.

What does it say about your candidate that that same McCain has not only closed the distance between them in polls, but has jumped ahead in a number of them?

Since style -- or what passes for style among those who have no taste -- is Obama's only substance, nitpicking style-points is as close as one can come to engaging with the man on "substantive" terms.

Stuff like these columns -- these cast-offs from Cecil B. DeMille -- along with similar cases of kitsch like the personalized presidential seal and the junket to Berlin make Obama look more and more tacky and less and less substantial even in aesthetic terms with every passing day.

It's beginning to seem as if the hot air that inflates this empty suit comes from the same malodorous place that bull**** does.

Because it could like he's descending from Mt. Olympus.

>Or one of the millions of other places in the world that have columns? My point is, if you want to push the meme of Obama wants to be God, you have to make fanciful leaps like this, from a few columns to Mt. Olympus! If he we're to descend from a big mountain labeled "Olympus" in a toga holding a lightning bolt, I could definitely see your point.

>I don't recall Jesus doing much of his speechifying in front of columns.

I was specifically thinking of the Sermon on the Mount. Temple of Herod, you might have a point. But when you think Jesus, is your next though "columns!"? In any event, Obama had better not do any speeches from an elevated place! Who does he think he is, anyways!

>Reuters reported the story. Is Reuters on Rove's payroll?

Sorry, show me where in the Reuters story they say anything about the Messiah? Rod said that, McCain's campaign says that. The Reuters story does not. Again, you have to make the leap.

>The same background as every other speaker was using. You don't want the speech to be about the background, and that's what is happening.

Okay, good answer. I would reword it slight and say
"You don't want to make it possible for his opponents to detract from the speech itself by pointing out the set." Valid point, for sure.

>Let me put it this way: Obama should be 10-20 pts ahead of his adversary by any reasonable measure. But because of a number of miscues, many of his own making, he's either in the polls. Taking a "fashion risk" at this point is not a good idea.

What reasonable measure would that be? Just curious. As for the polls, "tied or slightly behind" in one or two polls (Zogby?) that were breathlessly reported on in the conservative blogosphere?

Take a look at the aggregates, my friend:
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-pres-ge-mvo.php

Needless to say, I'm not exactly sweating it yet. The convention is going great. Doesn't mean, of course, that at some point in the near future I will start sweating it. But right now I'm cool, thanks.

Have no one been to Washington, DC?????

The whole city is full of this pretentious neo-classical architecture. Ditto for most of the state capitals.

I'm beginning to think that people are so uneducated that they just bite on the latest agit-prop bait and move from one phony outrage to the other. Drudge is the new messiah.

And the football stadium? Soldiers Field in Chicago, the L.A. Coliseum......column after column.......does everyone now live in an electronic box?

Cultural illiteracy on display.

Sheeeesh!

That may change by tonight, but right now, it looks pretty silly. It's pure satirical gold.

Were Bill Clinton to stick around for the Obamosseum speech, it would be satyrical.

Has anyone bothered to check the date tomorrow? It's the anniversary of the "I Have a Dream" speech by Martin Luther King, Jr.

The speech was given in front of the Lincoln Memorial. The same Lincoln Memorial that has Greek-style pillars in front of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lincoln_memorial_dc_20041011_095847_1.3008x2000.jpg

The symbolism of Obama's staging couldn't be any more obvious if people cared to look. He's going to connect the dots between MLK's speech all those years ago, and the progress we've made since then, as well as the challenges that still exist.

I could be wrong, but it sure looks to me like Rod's blogs have been long on fussy little slams against Obama and very, VERY short on offering the slightest compelling reason why anyone would want to vote McCain.

Don't freak, Rod, but I think there's a strong possibility that Obama, overall, is aligned with crunchy con values way more than the hot-tempered, millionaire-hugging Maverick Man with the I-dunno-how-many houses.

It's a tedious, petty argument. When you are relying on the schoolyard bullies and mean girls over at NRO for back-up, you know it's a silly argument.

Maybe the architectural choice is designed to counter the theme of "The Other" that has been floated.

Nothing says "Western Civilization" like Greek columns.

The whole classical columns motif makes me think of the Roman emperors who were worshiped. In the case of Augustus, a messianic aura hung about them. This magery reeks of arrogance, imperialism, and hubris. We know from scripture that Caesar Augustus sent out a decree that the whole world would be taxed. Should Obama win the principate/presidency a decree for higher taxes shall come forth from the seat of imperial power.

"I could be wrong, but it sure looks to me like Rod's blogs have been long on fussy little slams against Obama and very, VERY short on offering the slightest compelling reason why anyone would want to vote McCain."

Sad, really. Rather than talk about the issues facing this nation, the conservatives are left to dither about frivolous items. Not surprising, really. Look at their politicians. While the country faces economic crisis from foreclosures and high energy prices, and while those of us hit by flooding here in Iowa are still waiting for FEMA to be authorized to distribute funds, we all feel much better knowing that the GOP Senators effectively blocked all bills (including emergency relief for flood victims) in an effort to get some special treatment for their oil company owners. And, while all this was going on, Rod and his cohorts kept an eye on the fake columns in a stadium in Denver.

Next week, as the GOP holds court at one end of he Mississippi (and Gustav holds court at the other end), we'll see if the GOP can do more than remind us of how much better off we were eight years ago. With both Bush and Cheney scheduled to address the nation there, I'm willing to bet they will fail miserably.

And unless I miss my guess, Gustav will hit land about the time Cheney starts talking. Quite appropriate...one blowhard hits the source of Big Muddy, another hits the mouth. I just hope those of us in the middle can handle the turbulence that will be generated.

- Hey folks, I suspect half the reason Rod posts this stuff is to get a rise out people. Next time, don't feed the troll.

>>>>

Most bloggers here derive income from traffic that comes to their blogs. Not huge money, but obviously enough that it makes it worth their time to attract folks who will read the blog. They may even be paid more for those who respond, since there are more view opportunities for ads.

If you really don't like what Rod has to say, don't view his blog. Of course he is trying to attract readers. Why else post here on a blog?

Oh, and the idea that you need to respond to "correct inaccuracies"... don't buy into that. Tell me the last time you saw a blogger here or anywhere else say, "Gee, you have a point there. I _am_ wrong in my position." Yep...exactly. It will never happen.

And for those who post so others coming by here might see "the truth," get over it. Rod probably has access to how many unique hits he gets here, but I'm betting that it's less than 300 unique hits a week. The rest are repeat visitors, and that probably is in the neighborhood of 100 to 200.

Face it...if you really want to tick off conservatives, go out and register folks to vote in a Latino or Black neighborhood. Go out and door knock for your favorite progressive candidate. Hold a community garage sale with the proceeds going to a progressive candidate. Go sit on a phone bank for a day and make calls. Those are PROVEN ways to defeat conservatism at the polls.

Gakking it up on a blog, even one as good as this one, isn't going to change anyone's mind or vote. Nor is it going to help the candidates you support. All it's going to do is put money, and not much of that, in Rod's pocket.

Oh, and it will help out yet another profit center of Rupert Murdoch's conservative juggernaut, NewsCorp.

Hells bells, we talk about Sasquatch and chickens here. But we also talk about abortion and war and politics.

LOL.

Beautiful. If you're ever in NC, shoot me an email, I'd like to buy you a drink...and I can do that now that my city is no longer the largest city east of the Mississippi that was still dry.

For sheer pretentiousness, check out the set the current White House apparently uses for the daily press belief http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00GndaU6Yi6L7/610x.jpg --- then get back to me about Obama.

Now it is true that the carrier set turned out to be the gift that kept on giving --- to the Democrats.

As long as no one crowns Obama with a laurel wreath, and the dress code is toga-free, I don't see a substantive problem with the columns.

Like I actually CARE about the decorator and whatever the decorator thinks?

I don't. The problem we have, is that Obama is the triumph of symbolism over all other things... And deliberately so. They know precisely what they're doing... And it's all, as the movie once said... Not real. Just appearance. Just fake fire.

Ought we laugh over the choices those make who have made a profession of symbolics over reality? Probably so. Does it influence the election? I doubt it.

For the record, I first learned about it via Google news, in the online headline of the Reuters story. You know Reuters, the well-known generator of right-wing memes.

The thing that hurts so many partisans of both the left and the right in this country is the inability to think that their opponents might have a point, and might see things that they, the partisans, can't see. People who see the Obama stagecraft as contributing to the faux-messianic aura around him can't be simply wrong; they have to be robots programmed by Karl Rove. Knee-jerk rightists can't wrap their imagination around the idea that somebody who says something that clashes with their rigid worldview might have a point, or might simply be wrong. They have to posit the critics as part of a conscious conspiracy.

It's just stupid. Above all, it's stupid. And it's ultimately self-defeating, because it closes one's mind to the possibility that one might be wrong.

Ideology is the enemy of thought. Ideology is the enemy of anything alive or interesting, or complex, or paradoxical. Ideology is simply boring, and ideologues bore the daylights out of me.

Unbelieveable...the Dem's have given the Republican's another big club to beat them over the head. Can see it now... the Greek God "Obama" standing in front of 80,000 of this followers in a Toga as they drink the Kool Aid together.

i'm a conservative and i'm not even as clueless to suggest that obama thinks he's a zeus god. i dont know where you get this kind of argument...

good god,

The fact that by your own admission you're "only" 23 says a lot about why you're so sanguine when it comes to Obama. Call us when you're *32* -- and when you've learned your grammar. : )

Given that McCain spoke in a Fudge Haus while Obama was drawing huge crowds in Germany, perhaps he'll try to trump Obama by announcing his VP pick tonight at a gyro stand somewhere.

Typical, Derek, I come up with what I think is a good joke and you have to go and spoil it with boring things like facts.

It would be odd for McCain, but McCain's not the one who has a reputation for being an overhyped celebrity. Leaving aside whether it's valid or not, this is a potential Achilles heel for Obama.

Rod, you've been watching too many McCain commercials, as they're pretty much the only thing fueling this "reputation." If you think that Obama giving a speech with some Greek columns is an "Achilles heel" (har har) then you really, really need to get some perspective.

if obama had a weird muslim mosque as a background you'll call him a muslim

Heck, if there was a crescent moon in the sky they'd call him a Muslim.

Honestly. If this thread is proof of one thing, it's that to a Democrat the word "bipartisan" means "Republicans better shut up about our flaws and missteps, though we're perfectly free to point out theirs."

Let's look at the situation, shall we?

Obama says things about how the oceans will recede since he's the nominee.

Obama's campaign makes a mock-up *Presidential seal* and sees nothing at all inappropriate about affixing it to the front of a podium where he's supposed to speak.

Obama goes to Europe and tries to get the Germans to let him speak in front of Brandenburg Gate, where Kennedy (and later Reagan) spoke. He has to settle for a lesser historic monument when the Germans deny this one. (And I still think tonight's set looks an awful lot like Brandenburg, at least from the blurry photos seen so far.)

Obama decides to accept the nomination *not* in the convention hall, like most nominees, but in a stadium, which is the same choice Kennedy made in 1960.

And it's not enough to be in a stadium, but the campaign then has to construct an elaborate set as a backdrop. It's not the Greek columns, people, it's the showy ostentation, especially given that the Democrats' podium/stage arrangement at the convention center was tasteful and simple, in my opinion. Why go to the expense and difficulty of constructing an entirely new speaking platform and set?

Whether the knee-jerk Dems on this board like it or not, real people will be asking these questions, not just Republican operatives. Does Obama see himself as a new JFK, breaking the "race barrier" to the Presidency as JFK once broke the "faith barrier" and ushering in a new Camelot? If so, what does that say about him, especially given his relative lack of experience in politics and his far-left liberalism on so many issues?

I think the Greek-themed set looks inappropriate. I'd like to see something more American and less like he's speaking from "on high." I think it will make him look like a pompous xxx (insert 3 letter word of your choice).

Given our entire nation's capital, I really don't see anything more American than a scene filled with columns and Greek themed architecture.

Exactly what would be 'more American'? Some kind of farmhouse out of American Gothic?

This is pure non-sense. As more already mentioned, nearly every building in D.C. has similar columns. As does nearly every courthouse, captial building and post offices across America. Besides, the Republicans used Greek columns in their 2004 convention. Here's a link to the picture:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YdAacBURVXE/SLWwqEkajbI/AAAAAAAAC7Q/0cMqon8p5H0/s1600-h/gwb-2004convention.jpeg

And as for this celebrity stuff, wasn't Ronald Reagan a celebrity? He sure was so stop with the smoke screen Republicans and talk issues. Americans need help not silly stuff like this.

Nutter Center

This stuff just writes itself...

You know, I wouldn't make fun of this, except it's apparently become fashionable to make fun of really stupid things because of 'how it could be perceived by people looking to make fun of it', apparently.

So, yeah, ha ha ha ha. Nutter Center. While Obama apparently thinks he's, um, Greek (Has anyone checked that he actually isn't Greek?), McCain appears to think that people voting for him are Nutters. Or perhaps he's a Nutter.

Of course, this is all damn stupid, but we didn't start it. Rest assured that we'll have lots of fun at the Republican Convention. (Which is likely to descend into total anarchy without people making nonsense up.)

Until them, in really stupid things to talk about:

Does appearing, the other day, via satellite link mean that he believes he can be president with a several second lag? If we call him at 3 in the morning and it doesn't even ring until 3:00:02, is he really fit to be president?

Alternately, does Obama believe he can communicate faster than light? Maybe he's not just the Lightbearer, maybe he's the FasterThanLightbearer! What other laws of physics does he believe do not apply to him?