The POW church riot

What would our military have done at Guantanamo if the Muslim prisoners had similarly tried to organize religious services?

McCain's friends say they believe God had a plan for him, allowing him to survive to put him on the cusp of the presidency. He, too, acknowledges that idea, though cautiously.

"I can't help but feel like that to some extent, and I'm not a fatalist," said McCain. "I think it's remarkable that I've been able to survive so much and to have the opportunity to do the right thing. I do think we make our own choices, but certainly I think I was meant to serve a cause greater than my self-interest."

Who knew that John McCain was God's anointed? I wonder if McCain's friends believe God has a plan for Obama too.

The mixing of patriotic celebration with God worship -- that's not my idea of legitimate God-worship, but it's a lot more understandable in a POW camp than suburbia.

Actually, the Divine Liturgy, Orthros, and Vespers services of the Orthodox Church, contain prayers for the government. They're a very small portion of the service, but they're there.

And to Steven D.: I'm a McCain supporter, and I think God has a plan for Sen. Obama. But I hope that it's not for him to become president. :D

Although I am a Christian, and a political junkie, I have never before actually prayed that a certain man would become president.

I am praying that Obama wins. This country cannot take four more years of damage from someone who will continue Bush's policies, or worse. As much as I disagree with Obama about many things, I think he will be a healing presence in the White House. He is a man of grace, wisdom, and character.

A lawyer I know, who is VERY Republican, said this to me recently: "This country needs to be healed." The sadness in his voice was palpable. He believes Obama needs to win, for the good of the country.

That doesn't mean I think God wants Obama to win. I have no idea who He wants to be President, or if He really cares at all. He has his own purposes. But I can still pray, "If it is Your will..."

I'm a conservative, and I sincerely believe an Obama presidency would undo the severe damage of the past eight years. He would bring a restoration of political virtue to the country. I should add that I'm pro-life, which also means that I'm against torture.

It is interesting to see that one can agree and disagree with one person, almost within moments. Long ago, and I don't remember exactly why or how, I stop the childish pattern of praying to God to give my something I wanted. Like treebeard, ever since then, it has always been, "Please help me to do what is right" or "Thy will be done".

But I totally disagree with "He would bring a restoration of political virtue to the country." since it is clear that Obama is a Chicago machine politician, whose every career move has simply been to gain the next position, without an attempt to accomplish anything on each rung of the ladder and whose associates for many years have been people whose values are in total opposition to what Americans believe in: Wright's church black liberation theology, Ayres' and Dohrn's Marxist terrorist goals, and the total opposite of a pro-life view.

I wish we could believe in Obama. It just isn't possible.

Ayers and Dorhn are a dealbreaker. When Ayers bombed NYPD's HQ, he could've killed my dad, my father in law, a few uncles, numerous friends. How do you sqaure bombing the Capitol with any democratic ideals? To say Obama was 8 when this happened is absurd. This wasn't some abstract art-it was vicous evil intentional murder of the very people who hold our society together at the seams. That Obama, weaned on years of leftist claptrap, cannot see that tells me all his Kumbaya crap is just that. He is the emptiest of suits.

This among many things in his service to this country speaks well of Mccain. His sabre-rattling over Georgia unnerves me though. It's like his whole mindset froze in 1989.

There is a part of me that remembers that Carter begot Reagan. 4 years in the wilderness would do conservatives a world of good, a time to recall what "conservative" should mean for Americans-borders, language, culture, fiscal responsibility; the things Ron Paul discussed. Mccain doesn't much care about any of that.

But the question turns on what would be left after 4 years of Obama working with Pelosi and REid to bring their brave stupid "can't we all get along?" world to life.As an academic exercise, there's part of me that wants to see the hard loopy lefties have at it, and let them screw the pooch of the body politic upward over sideways down.

I should probably elaborate. Thanks to all who commented.

First, I'm not naive. I don't think Obama is some kind of Messianic figure. I don't think he will perform any miracles. In many ways, the status quo of Washington DC will putter along as it always has.

What I (and others) mean by "healing" the country are things like this: renouncing torture, restoring habeas corpus, working with our allies rather than expressing disdain for them ("Old Europe"), endeavoring to limit our foreign entanglements rather than more sabre-rattling, and endeavoring to conduct political affairs in an inclusive manner rather than a divide-and-conquer "we only need 51 percent" manner. I don't see Obama as someone who will demonize his enemies or accuse them of being unpatriotic. I also don't see him as someone who would ever conduct a war as recklessly, carelessly, and foolishly as Bush has. (The fact that so many soldiers support Obama and not McCain despite the latter's service should be telling. Ask around. Talk to military families.)

Why "This country needs to be healed" is a frightening statement, I don't quite understand. I'm talking about the proper context - the damage done to our Constitution (habeas corpus), the damage done to our government (i.e. the Justice Department), the damage done to our reputation around the world (which does actually matter, people). We can no longer discuss human rights with countries like China or Russia, because it's laughable. That needs to change. Presidents as various as Carter and Reagan could talk about human rights, and their denial in other countries, and it was taken seriously. That's not true anymore. We TORTURED people. We IMPRISONED people who were not guilty of any crime, other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time, innocent (non-terrorist) bystanders, and have given them no legal recourse. That's not supposed to be the American way of doing things. Even Timothy McVeigh received a fair trial. I'm glad he was executed, but the process needs to be upheld with dignity.

That's what I mean by "healed." That's the kind of damage I think Obama would undo. I can handle more government regulations and more attempts to socialize the economy. I cannot handle the fact that we're torturing people, and that "limited government" conservatives don't really give a damn. Unlike H. Clinton and McCain, Obama has shown some humanity on this score. I think he gives a damn.

Those things about Wright and Ayers are almost deal-breakers for me too. But I think Obama transcends them both. I don't think he is some hard, Che Guevera T-shirt wearing leftist waiting to bring the revolution. I think he is a solid, decent man who is exactly what is needed right now. If he (and Pelosi and Reid) overreach, they'll pay the price in 2012. That's how this wonderful country of ours works.

treebeard... There's so many things wrong wiht your statement, it's all but impossible to address it. But I'll try...

I'll agree that the Bush years have not been the best. But the change we need is NOT MORE OF WHAT IS WRONG WITH BUSH, but away from it. Everything that's wrong with Bush, is just X10 with Obama... Too much tax raising, too much government, too much compromising with Democrats, too wishy washy with dictators and tyrants, and so on.

Obama has no concern for the Constitution, except when lip service gains him verbal scores in debate or soundbites.

Much of your imagined "damage" is just that. Imaginary. Not real. Not relevant. Not important.

The things that need to happen are: Wholesale reduction in the size and scope of the federal government. There's nothing wrong with it that removing at least 60% of it's spending power couldn't cure. Axe all those "buy the votes of the people with their tax dollars" programs and departments. All we really need it to do is military, justice, and foreign relations.

But there's nothing new or even interesting coming out of Obama's mouth. Endless repetition of "change", which is as vapid and empty as a blown smoke ring. Political gymnastics, transforming into the expected image of whoever he's speaking to, or being heard by.

No evidence of any kind exists he's anything other than a moderately successful insider in DC. No evidence exists he has any courage to do "right". Obama would no more cross the special interest lobbies that make up the Democrat Party than he would walk on water.

You want leadership. He wants a title, desk, and power, and you matter NOT THE SLIGHTEST to his grand scheme of self-fulfillment.

Oh, and you could say that about at least 2/3 of all politicians.

At least certainly, about 100% of Democrats.

I cannot handle the fact that we're torturing people, and that "limited government" conservatives don't really give a damn.

Uh ... yes we do. I know a lot of limited government conservatives. My closest dozen friends would probably fit more or less in that category.

To a man, they decry this stupid war and the evil-to-the-core administration which has fostered it.

Conservative does not equal Bush-supporter or war-monger.

"It means that he's black, JPL. So God's Trumpet Call (a pretentious name, nu?), you're either brimming with sarcasm or a nasty racist. Which is it?"

Canaan was cursed by Noah, his father, to be a servant of his brothers. His decendents bear this curse, and have been relegated by God to be servants, not leaders.

Just look at his church? All they talk about is "being oppressed." They know the truth...the curse under which they live. Right thinking people know this, and will vote to preserve God's order this fall.

Here's a question, GTC, which I've wondered, since you brought it up.

Why is it called the 'Curse of Ham', when Ham wasn't cursed? It was his kid, Canaan, who was cursed. Not Ham.

And why are you assuming that Obama falls under that curse?

Are you claiming that people from certain areas of the world are descendants of Ham, as opposed to other people? Last I heard, nobody did Obama's family tree and determined that he came from that particular Biblical character.

(That theory came from the idea that the 'curse' involved a change in skin tone.)

It was most commonly used as an apologetic for slavery.

Well, actually, the scary part is there are people who believe in the 'Curse of Ham'. That and.. always was curious why Ham, when it was Canaan who was cursed.

The importance of praying for the welfare of the ruling body was established by the prophet Jeremiah after the first exile from Jerusalem, in 586 B.C.E. He tells the exiled Jews, "Seek the welfare of the city where I have caused you to be exiled, and pray to God on its behalf, for in its prosperity you shall prosper" (Jeremiah 29:7).

In every Jewish prayerbook I have ever used, one can find a prayer for our government. Nothing partisan about it, just "if it gets trashed, we're all in trouble."

Since 9-11 we have lived under a de facto military law and suspension of democratic rule. We have given up our freedoms faster than we did during WWII.

When the Great Depression hit America the newly elected President,FDR raise taxes and "healed" a broken Nation. When we entered into WWII, He raised taxes again and raised the greatest Army the world had seen. Now we have a Nation going broke fighting an insane war and the President wants to lower taxes.

If we are going to save our Nation from backrupcy, we need to pay the bills. The only way to do that is to have the richest people in the Nation, the ones who are getting their wealth from the rest of us, to foot the bill with higher taxes.

I know that its sounds crazy and McConservatives don't like it, but that is the only way it can happen. JFK once said, "Ask not what your Country can do for you but what you can do for your Country." We need to get back to that mindset and restore the wounds of poor government, even if that means tax the rich to hell and back.

I'm Paul, seeking wisdom, and I support taxing the rich.

I guess reading some of the comments here that some are not big fans of the Battle Hymm of the Republic