Well, here we are. I'll be liveblogging this sucker. Please chime in with your comments in the comboxes.
(8:12) Both candidates made their opening statements, neither of which answered Lehrer's question about how they stand on the proposed bailout. So Lehrer came back and asked the same question. Obama used the time to once again make a purely political statement, ducking the question. McCain too avoided answering the question, and made a statement about accountability. Both these guys are playing the blame game, though.
(8:15) Look, Alex Massie is up late liveblogging across the Atlantic.
(8:19) McCain comes off as a real spending hawk, but Obama is right to point out that McCain's anti-earmark rhetoric is silly (earmarks account for only a tiny part of the budget). Yet there's Obama proud of his tax cut for 95 percent of the American people -- as if we could afford that! Maybe it's just me, but I feel as if I've heard all of this before from these guys. I get the feeling that they're talking past each other, hitting their talking points.
(8:31) Jim Lehrer asks a perfectly good question of Obama: "What are you going to cut out of your spending plans because of what the bailout will cost?" Obama says he doesn't know -- then launches into more campaign boilerplate about what he's going to do. Understand: he was asked what he's going to cut out, but droned on about what he would spend. Come on, man, answer the damn question! Sound like a leader, not a politician.
For his part, McCain did better. Said he would cut out ethanol subsidies. Would cut the defense budget -- and gave a few specifics. But then went back to vague generalities ("We'll have to scrub every agency of government.").
(8:36) Poor Lehrer, he can't get a straight, detailed answer out of these boobs. If I didn't have to watch this for work, I would turn off the TV right now. I cannot believe this nation, in as much trouble as we're in, will be governed by one of these two politicians.
(8:38) Did you know that McCain did not win Miss Congeniality? Did you know that he's a maverick?
(8:4-) McCain gave the best answer that he could to "What are the lessons of Iraq?" He talked about strategic lessons for how to win the war. What McCain didn't say was what the lessons are going forward for the country and its relations in the world. Obama could have cleaned up on this one, if he had talked about how the lessons of Iraq should affect America's strategic priorities going forward. But you know what Obama said the lesson of Iraq was? Only this: "We have to use our military wisely."
That's it?! That was the lesson of Iraq. Obama should be creaming McCain on this one. Does Obama really feel that he needs to bang on about how bad the war was? Don't we know that? I mean, it's fine for Obama to rub McCain's nose in it for having supported the war in the first place, but I would rather have heard something more detailed and forward-thinking about America's place in the world, on the wisdom or unwisdom of promoting democracy, and so on and so forth.
This is what we have to look forward to, one of these guys running the country? Oy.
(9:02) Jeez McCain, the "freedom fighters" of Afghanistan were the Taliban! And the new president is Zardari, not Kadari. Obama got a good shot in on McCain on the question of prudence, saying that a guy who sings songs about bombing Iran doesn't have a lot of room to lecture anybody about being prudent about what you say.
McCain is doing a good job setting himself apart from Obama on the question of having a record of making decisions to send, or not send, Americans to war. Yeah, and that's what worries me: some of the particular decisions he's made. But inarguably, he's got a lot more experience here than Obama. He seems to be saying to Obama, "Listen here, punk..."
(9:11) Uh oh, McCain's getting mad. Fire in the eyes. Losing his way. Obama's right on the diplomacy question, and he's much more surefooted and persuasive than McCain is here.
(9:13) "Senator Obama doesn't seem to understand..." How many times has McCain said that tonight, trying to diminish Obama's stature? I know what he's doing here, but it's starting to sound like a tic.
(9:17) McCain cockily said Obama is wrong about what "my friend Henry Kissinger" said about direct negotiations with Iran. Guess what? Obama was actually right.
(9:21) How is it that Obama "doesn't understand" (again!) the situation between Russia and Georgia when Obama's got the same view on the matter as McCain does? They're both wrong, I believe, but still, they're both on the same page.
(9:30) We're entering the last third of the debate, and even though I'm not impressed with either canddiate, it seems to me to be a draw. Which means McCain is losing. Why? Because this debate is about national security and foreign policy, McCain's strong suit. He needed to dominate Obama tonight, but Obama isn't letting him. Advantage Obama.
(9:37) Oh wow, the debate's over. I thought it was going to go till 10. Well, I think Obama has to be judged the winner. Nobody's mind will be changed by this debate, but Obama seemed loose and confident and not intimidate by McCain. McCain seemed growly and tense, though more focused than usual. Because McCain didn't beat Obama, and because Obama is ahead right now, Obama wins a narrow victory.
(9:44) Michael Beschloss: "If I had to save my life, I couldn't quote a line from the last 90 minutes." True enough. How weird is that? Not a single memorable line or moment.
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Did anyone else feel that it was disrespectful for Obama to continue to address McCain as simply "John"? McCain never once referred to Obama as "Barack".
Actually, Danielle, I had the opposite reaction, though I understand your point. I think Obama's task was to show that he was at least equal in gravitas to McCain; and calling him "Sen. McCain" all the time could have come across as deferential (as if he didn't think he was McCain's equal), rather than respectful. Besides, they have been colleagues in the Senate for the past couple of years, so why shouldn't they call each other by their first names? I thought that McCain's insistence on calling Obama "Sen. Obama" was of a piece with his refusal to look at him, and came across as stiff and formal -- somewhat disdainful -- rather than respectful. YMMV
***
I would have preferred more substance about the national economy. Can't we get real about it?
I think the problem there was that this debate was supposed to be about foreign policy, so that was what they both prepped for. The inclusion of questions about the economy was a last-minute recognition of the events of the past week, but clearly neither of them was as well-prepared for questions in this area. I suspect we'll get more substance about the economy in the next debate.
I will be voting for Obama but McCain won. He was in top form
and his dismissal of Obama as naive and the snide laugh was
just fair debate tactics. I respect his command of history
and context in complicated matters. However, his temper, his
inability to do details and nuance, his overall street fighter
temperament and gut reactions are not what I am looking for.
Bush has the same problem. It is probably physically painful
for him to read complicated detailed memos. McCain's contempt
for the people and the political process was exemplified in
his pick of Sarah Palin. That was a killer. But I correct
myself, he did not pick her she was picked by none other
than William Kristol and McCain nodded his head.
As for the economy, if I can understand a good deal of
what's going on anyone who can read can understand it
b/c it's a matter of common sense. How anyone in their
right mind can not take an interest in the biggest
financial crisis since 29 is beyond me. I noticed
many of the southern pols were not up to the task.
It was like, do I really have to do this economic stuff?
Obama's repeated "I agree with John" lines certainly didn't help him, though.
I disagree. I think it was totally refreshing that Obama didn't have a knee-jerk "the other guy is wrong" response. I am disgusted with the relentless partisanship in American politics and Obama's consession that the other guy is right came off as mature and responsible.
McCain's evident disrespect for Obama sent the tiresome partisan "I don't agree with you therefore you're worthless" message that so many Americans are sick to death of.
"I thought the line of the night was 'I have a bracelet, too.'" EddieinCA
TR: I thought that was one of the weirdest moments of the night. They were both trying to outdo each other in sob stories or "who's got the bracelet" stories.
"Pakistan was not a failed state when Musharraf took over."
TR: This is what FactCheck says, and although they're not precisely wrong this is a matter open to interpretation. So far as I know there is not a universally agreed definition of "failed state.' Pakistan was not a classic "failed state" in that it had not fallen into a state of civil war or anarchy. However some nations are counted as "failed states" despite that. Nawaz Sharif had centralized power into himself and begun their nuclear program. He had also encouraged the advancement of Islamic law, which is often a sign a leader of an Islamic nation is starting to lose control. In addition he did have to deal with instability in what's been called "The Kargil Conflict." Pakistan was nearly broke at the time and full of corruption.
I disapproved of the military coup and it has not improved most of these problems. However to present it as the overthrow of a thriving and free regime is highly misleading. It was the overthrow of a deeply flawed and pro-Islamist semi-free nation rife with ethnic conflict and a heavily armed/vengeful population. It was a step-down of a sort, but about as close to being a lateral move as a military dictatorship gets.
"I can't believe some of you folks. "John was right" is a huge gaffe from Obama?"
TR: I find this baffling too. Most of the debate he was about as harsh to McCain as I've seen anyone be to the man and the overall media spin is he was too deferential. I'm thinking many just want someone to be absolutely and unrelentingly vicious, but I really don't think that would have helped Obama. I think many who vote Obama like him for being, or I might say appearing, more understanding and respectful. Angrily snarking at an old guy for 90 minutes straight without ever giving him credit on anything would've been a dumb way to go.
Well, it is going to be a hard one to spin into a negative in the commercial.
What are they going to say? He's wrong as a leader for agreeing with McCain? He's bad for the country because there were times he thought McCain was right?
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