Rethinking Mama Palin's judgment
Yesterday's firestorm against Sarah Palin over her daughter's pregnancy focused on the bogus issue on whether or not this means she was a bad mother. Certainly I, and no doubt others, fought back on her behalf against this baseless and...
Well, I never thought I'd find myself jumping in to defend the Republican vice-presidential candidate, but saying that she shouldn't run because people will pick on her and her family sounds a whole lot like blaming the victim to me. It's like calling Obama a bad father because his candidacy will expose his family to some ugly racist slurs. Let's face it, the only way a mother can avoid being blamed for SOMETHING is by becoming invisible. A woman in the public eye will always be found guilty of something. The proper defense against those who would shame her daughter is to tell them to STOP IT, not to cower in a closet to avoid their notice. Giving in to misogyny is letting the terrorists win.
ditto sigaliris
Thank God someone is writing about this instead of ignoring it. This girl is a CHILD. A CHILD. As parents we should try to always protect and shield our children. We cannot always do this, but in this instance they certainly could. Does anyone remember what it was like to be 17???? That Janis Ian song that my husband and everyone else ridicules was written about that age for a reason. How in the world could they expose her to this type of publicity when they knew it was going to come out? She's not old enough, legally or emotionally, to give her consent to this INVASION OF HER PRIVACY. This will affect her for the rest of her life, and will also affect the precious unborn child she is carrying. What kind of mother would subject her precious child to this??? I AM ASTOUNDED.
If she misjudged anything, it was probably the slow degree to which old attitudes (about the roles of men and women) die hard.
When Al Gore's son took a very bad turn in the late 1990s, no one questioned Papa Gore's ambition or the need to set aside his ambition to help his son. What kind of double standard is that?
Perhaps, too, she couldn't imagine how disparate the double standard is on these things in the MSM (a harsh one for Republicans; a kind and gentler one for Democrats). Witness that today's NY Times has THREE stories today on the Bristol Palin pregnancy, according to internet reports (I don't read the rag myself -- why encourage them?). Three!!!! Yes, THREE, for crying out loud!!
How many front page stories did the Old Gray Lady do on the troubled Al Gore III back when his Papa was running for President? Anyone want to venture that the answer is "nada" ?
May I crib a bit of Eve Tushnet's pithy wisdom to underscore the point:
cited from http://culture11.com/blogs/ladyblog/2008/08/27/some-notes-on-watching-repulsion/
It was going to come out eventually, like in about 4 months, whether or not she agreed to be on the ticket or not. If she did decline the invite to be on the ticket, then there would be a big stink about whether she made the right decision. Don't let the panic of the left with all their accusations change your opinion. If she was a good candidate on Friday, then she's probably a good candidate today, and on Nov. 4th. If the left was worried on Friday, and throughout the weekend, then they'll probably be worried on Nov. 4th as well. This is just the way things go after the candidate is named. Things are going to come out, and there may be more. If it gets real bad, then McCain will dump her, or she'll withdraw herself. Hang in there, people!
A parent's first duty is to protect his/her children.............before "Country First."
Sometimes familial duties and patriotic duties coincide and sometimes, not. When not,then in my opinion, protecting one's own children takes precedence.
Once McCain knew of this, he should have declined making the offer to Palin. He says he knew and he didn't decline, so the duty fell to Palin to decline the offer.
I have once been in Gov. Palin's situation, with an unmarried teenage child awaiting a child............and I think it's not the time to move a family into an entirely new and overwhelming setting. It's a time to protect and support.
Palin isn't exposing her family to the garbage - the malicious minded hacks and faux conservatives of credulity and conspiracy theorizing and special pleading (oops - I mean conservatives of doubt) are responsible for this. Palin may well be a bad mother, but her detractors are in no position to make that call. I'm particularly disgusted by the tut-tutting of the Palins by the gay blogger whose own sex life cannot withstand intense public scrutiny and who howled "McCarthyism!" when it was exposed to the public by malicious-minded gay activists.
However, the most nauseating reaction comes from Sally Quinn in today's Washingtonpost.com - a more disingenous projection of her own NOCD prejudices upon the fundamentalists/evangelicals she hates could hardly be more transparent. (Not that I like religious right muckety-mucks either, but I know liberal upper-class snobbery when I see it.) She should go back to her real interests: walking her labyrinth and buying gas masks and duct tape.
She was already governor. Should she have stepped down to avoid embarrassment? Maybe shipped her daughter off to the home of a great aunt in Canada? Shame is good, and it's there whether or not the national spotlight is on. It provides the opportunity to pick up your cross and carry it for a while. The desire to avoid shame at all costs among mainline Protestants perhaps gave the feminists the shoehorn they needed to slip abortion into mainstream acceptance. As an added bonus this turn of events will reveal how truly dirty and nasty are kind and tolerant liberals.
Were it not for the Hefelump's slavish devotion to abstinence only sex "education" plank in their platform, this would not be much of a story. But shining such a bright conservative light on the VP nominee simply makes the hypocricy of this approach to sex "education" all the more stark. Is this simply one more example of leadership from the school of "do what we say, not what we do" and "celebrities are judged differently"?
Reaganite,
Per my response to an earlier post, I am challenging your recollection re: Al Gore's son and his problems. My memory (confirmed by Wikipedia) indicate incidents in 2003 and 2007, nothing in the run-up to Al Gore's 2000 campaign.
Are you sure that something happened? If something *did* happen, it probably was not sot discussed that prominently because we were consumed by the Clinton impeachment, Y2K paranoia, etc.
Reaganite-
To what late 1990s trouble are you referring?
The earliest thing I can find is a reckless driving charge in 200O. The times didn't report his 2003 and 2007 drug charges when Gore ran for office in 92,96, and 00 because they can not see the future.
I really don't understand why the McCain-Palin campaign didn't just ignore the rumor-mongering and wait until it was just plain obvious that the girl is pregnant. The less time that poor girl spends in the political spotlight, the better. Pregnancy is stressful enough without the added scorn of a good chunk of the nation to contend with. I question Palin's wisdom. I like her, from what I've seen, but she could have done more to protect her daughter, at least a little bit longer.
This "rethinking" isn't what I'm hearing at all. As the Politico reports this morning, it looks like Palin's family issues will actually HELP her politically. And check out Byron York's report today on NRO -- evangelical support for McCain now appears to be at an all time high, as these revelations make Gov. Palin look more human, and of course also demonstrate that she and her family walk the pro life talk.
My local news last night did woman-on-the-street interviews about this, and every single person interviewed said this was a non-issue or a cheap shot by the media. One pointed out that no one makes an issue out of these situations if the candidate is a man.
Just wait till Wed. night.
re: Jim's "It's a time to protect and support."
Yup! Hallelujah! after 8 years of chest-thumping machismo/Harriet Myers imbroglio it takes a "feminists for life" church lady to gamble all that God gave her "to protect and support" the most vulnerable in society (and no that's not the Iraqis nor the Afhgani/Pakistani tribal cavemen who should be men enough to fight their own battles) Americans in utero, the UNBORN!!!
Where was Santorum when we needed him?
Too busy worrying about our allyies smuggling bombs via container shipments in DubaiPortWorld businesses, I recall.
As for this argument about abstinence, I agree with Rod... the girl made her own decisions. When Bush's daughter got into trouble, did anyone say that we should see clearly that teen drinking is not a problem and should be promoted? When Reagan's daughter was in trouble, did that mean that Nancy's message of "Just Say No" was any less true? Should we have called off the "War on Drugs"?
The double standard thing is a joke. There is only one candidate for VP, and she's not 17... In saner times, people on both sides would recognize that.
But the big point here is that it isn't a political issue. As for coming out with it, my understanding is that it was coming out anyway. Should she not accept the VP slot because of it? I dealt with this as a kid, as my Dad was sort of in the public eye a bit (small town, local.) I would hate to think that my many, many bad choices would have affected his ability to follow the path of his career. Or that he would be maligned as a "bad Dad." He wasn't. I was just a stuborn, and misguided youth. As for the scrutiny that comes with being in the public light, I am sure it is tough. But all political kids have to deal with it unfortunately. The Obama girls will too. Are the libs suggesting an abstinence only policy for our politicians? Or should they be expected to contracept to make it to high office?
I love it guys... Criticize Palin for being a bad Mom. I see the left has picked up on the "she can't be VP b/c she has kids" line of attack as well... As a McCain supporter, I'm loving it. McCain couldn't get this with all the ads in the world. Be careful Dems, the PUMAs are listening...
"The desire to avoid shame at all costs among mainline Protestants perhaps gave the feminists the shoehorn they needed to slip abortion into mainstream acceptance. As an added bonus this turn of events will reveal how truly dirty and nasty are kind and tolerant liberals."
Very, very, true, though it should be noted that there is, unfortunately, a great deal of priggish self-righteousness amongst motivated conservative Catholics and evangelicals which cause many of their co-religionists (I hate the word) to avoid shame at all costs. There have been more than a few cases in Northern Virginia where some large Catholic families were in over their head and would not dare seek help before tragedy struck because of the negative reactions they would have inevitably gotten from their fellow "good Catholics."
On another note, is may very well be the case that the marriage of Bristol and her beau is exactly the right approach to handle in a case like this, as births out of wedlock are typically far worse for both mother and child than curing a conception out of wedlock with a shotgun marriage. We would be better off wishing mother, father, and baby well.
To avoid "Jim" confusion, I'm going to start calling myself "Jim H" (I'm the "Jim" who challenged Reaganite's recollection re: Al Gore's son, not the "Jim" who has been in Gov. Palin's situation).
Perhaps Governer Palin consulted with her family prior to accepting the VP nomination. There may have been a long discussion, possibly spanning weeks, in which Gov. Palin layed out to Todd, Track, and Bristol especially, that they would all be subject to abuse and scrutiny the likes of which they had never before encountered and that Bristol's pregnancy would doubtless come to light eventually and appear on national news. And, perhaps, everybody said to Sarah: "Go for it, Mom! We're behind you!"
If that were the case, would it still be unreasonable for Gov. Palin to pursue the VP slot?
Of course, we don't know what discussions occurred or did not occur within the Palin family. They currently present a united front, as well they should. Perhaps they truly are 100% behind Sarah's candidacy. Or perhaps not. Yet the those who criticize Gov. Palin for entering the race seem to assume (with zero evidence) that the decision was entirely the Governer's and that her family is being pulled along for the ride. Maybe the critics are right in which case their criticism is justified. But in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, I am inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt (regardless of their political affiliation).
If it does come out that Gov. Palin agreed to be Senator MaCann's VP over Bristol's objections or misgivings, then perhaps some criticism of Gov. Palin's ambition is warranted. But to blindly assume that Bristol is less than 100% behind her mother's decision seems a hasty judgement.
"Jim" and "Buckminster Fusher":
Al Gore III was ticketed for reckless driving by North Carolina police in August 2000 when he was clocked going 94 mph, and military police arrested him for drunken driving near a military base in Virginia in September 2002.
All this was a prelude to the later incidents in 2003 and 2007. The troubles this poor young man (Al Gore III) has fallen into didn't happen overnight.
None of these family troubles should reflect either on Governor Sarah Palin or former VP Al Gore.
No, they shouldn't. But given the double set of double standards (one for men and one for women; and one for Repubicans and one for Democrats) ... Bristol Palin is getting the whole world dumped on her head right now. But back in August 2000 (3 months before the election) Al Gore III's "privacy" was protected, because, after all, it was "the right and decent thing to do."
Meanwhile, according to several internet reports, the NY Times (which I refuse to subscribe to -- why encourage them?) is running today THREE (yes, THREE) stories on the Bristol Palin matter.
When Joe Biden's wife died leaving him with 2 young sons, was his decision to stay in the U.S. Senate, with its extremely long hours and an extremely long commute, an example of poor parenting?
Why do those who question Sarah Palin (whose daughter is old enough to be getting married) not ask similar questions about what Biden did?
Hint: Y chromosome.
Good grief.
For the very first time in years, I'm poised to *consider* voting for my party's nominee, precisely because he picked such a wonderfully courageous and principled pro-lifer to be VP. Sarah Palin is the best thing that's happened to GOP politics in years.
And all I'm seeing is party full of people with one foot lifted to high-tail it to the tall grass at the first sign of disapproval from the rabid Left.
It really disturbs me to see people ready to bail on this woman at the very first sign of an irrational and cowardly attack on her and her family.
Grow some, would'ja? Apparently the Stupid Party has become the Cowardly Lion Party.
Clare:
Re: Palin as champion of the unborn
Please note: a McCain Administration, if elected, will do just about as much to end abortion as the Reagan, Bush I and Bush II Administrations did. In other words, plenty of lip service, but no real action.
Why cultural conservatives don't get this is a puzzlement.
Ahhh Rod, everyone in their little town knew about her daughter being pregnant. This would have come out. Geeeshh. non issue. On another subject, I'm a little disturbed about the Dallas Morning News Editorial Page crusade for amnesty for illegal aliens.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/editorials/stories/DN-latinos_02edi.ART.State.Edition1.4d855bb.html
I admire Sarah Palin for letting the voters decide how they feel about her family and their humanity, as we all have human mistakes within our lives and families.
I once had a minister whose daughter became pregnant in high school, and he appeared before the church and told us about it and said he would resign if we felt he was not capable to lead the church any longer.
I'm sure that was a hard decision for this father to make, but it was the right one, considering his position of leadership. The same goes for Sarah Palin.
Some Americans might blame a leader who doesn't hide his, and his family's, failures -- but I think it takes moral courage to bring it out into the light of day and confront it in a positive way.
Our minister told us that day, that he and his family were supportive of their daughter, would welcome that Baby into their family and do all they could to encourage and help in this difficult situation, that they would not send their daughter away to dispel rumors, that she would be obviously pregnant and not married and if the church had any problems with that, they should speak up now.
That is what Sarah Palin is doing. It was going to become obvious soon, and Sarah stepped forward and announced it, said she was supportive and would love the Baby no matter what, and is giving the voter the chance to decide their own moral character by how they either understand, or judge harshly, a real American family with real American values and real American principles that they both talk about, and live.
I have some friends who are stay-at-home moms and can't get over the fact that Sarah Palin has a five-month-old and still wants to be Vice President.
At a party Saturday, one friend expressed exasperation with the glowing reports (mostly from men) about the "wonderful" Sarah Palin's lifestyle: "That's the kind of 70s-era feminism that we've been fighting. You can't be 'just a mom,' you have to be this super-hero mom who shoots a moose, cooks it up in a pan, and keep up your beauty pageant good looks--and at the same time raise the kids and hold down a full time job! We think being a wife and mom is a pretty great job all on its own."
Today, the same friend says, "One person can't 'do it all.' Something has to give. Either your outside job will suffer, or your kids will get in some kind of trouble because no one was at home to guide them. It's a shame her daughter got dragged into all this, but what did she think would happen?"
When parents do such a good job by their children that people can find little to criticize, and yet a child may be involved in a teen pregnancy, that is one thing. When a mother pursues a career in politics and embraces its demands on her time and energy over those of parenting, there is a lot that can be unfavorably opined about the situation.
Motherhood is important, and unless we want to agree that parents are just interchangeable neuter figures, which I didn't think was a conservative position, Palin is not removed from criticism. I just don't see how family values supporting people can align themselves with Palin.
You've raised a legitimate issue in a sensitive way, Rod. I'll just quote my wife, a pro-life Evangelical and stay at home mom of three: "Sarah Palin has a new baby with special needs, plus a child-daughter who is pregnant and unmarried. How can she handle these serious family issues while on the campaign trail all over the Lower 48? What does that say about her judgment?"
I'm sorry, I missed all those interviews and articles wherein the Palins are showing strain and dissention among their family ranks as to the wisdom of this decision. Rod, I am amazed at how quickly you cower -- haven't seen this from Palin, herself, or her family. In fact, it sounds to me like this family made the decision to go for it and face the barrage of slurs and insinuations that so quickly bubbles to the surface. Maybe, just maybe, this is akin to stepping onto a bus and NOT continuing on to the back (in shame or merely due to accepted conventional thinking/prejudice) because of some REAL LIFE issues.
Frankly, I am IMPRESSED to see this family tackle this so openly and lovingly. As a Christian in the "Church" community this "problem" ranks way way up there, but should it? Shouldn't the RESPONSE be equally as important -- embrace life over reputation-damage fears, which really means PRIDE? To temper your assessment on her "judgment" based on prejudice and "perceived personal" damage (read assumptions on your part based on your experience not hers, and your ability to handle it not hers) falls into the category of looking the other way in shame when a handicapped person chooses to attempt to shop in public (or bring their children, in my case). I have unfortuantely experienced lots of "sympathy" pouring forth (which may feel nice for the giver but doesn't change my situation a jot) but when the subject of my four other children comes out the lectures and raised eyebrows begin. You can imagine the shock when homeschooling enters the arena (yes, I do that too and have one in college with academic honors). When I entered the store I was a "darling" to be pitied or sainted, but when this "person" learned some facts about me they cringed and enveloped themselves in self-righteous prejudice branding me "selfish" or "stupid" BECAUSE THEY COULD NEVER PICTURE THEMSELVES DOING WHAT I DO NATURALLY AND LOVINGLY EVERY DAY. I didn't CHOOSE two handicapped kids, it just came along with our first childbirth experience (twins who beat the odds and lived through a harrowing birth). DOctor's advised us to "put them away" somewhere and forget we ever had them because we were young (at age 26 and 27). Three more children followed and proved to be equal blessings to us. Where's the shame? Where's the poor judgment? Did I mention my husband went on to lead a start-up company that hit the big time? Our courage and faith (and dare I say wisdom) grew right alongside our children, handicaps and all.
I have no problem evaluating the experience and fitness for office of a candidate, but this smacks of something "different" and it troubles me. Sliding standards and tepid support because of our own perceived weakness sickens me and reduces our effectiveness to bring about change and proper growth in our society. The Palins are admired and supported in Alaska by those who know them personally, where they LIVE and WORK and deal with all these issues every day. The media have set out to carve them up FOR VIEWERS PLEASURE and partisan advantage. Is that acceptable to Americans? Has every trace of the quest for excellence and change in our society dried up in fear we may be looked on as "unwise" or "too risky" or "stupid"?
I read your book Rod and I thought you took on challenges to improve the American banquet of choices. I thought you believed in different strokes for different folks (short of violating moral codes)? If Bristol had opted for abortion over her parents pro-life stance she would surely be on EVERY liberal front page with a rousing "high five" for her brilliant choice to kill the inconvenience. Instead she is branded with a scarlet letter and one is handed to her mother as well with a note attached, "Start walkin' lady, you can't even TRY to play in our playground with this screw up in your past." I'm appalled to read your flip-flops of feelings based on a new standard for women ... remember the Al Gore Jr. incident? (Did you remember the media kept quiet about it in order to spare Al Gore any shame on his "BIG NIGHT"?)
I am sick of being beat down and remanded to the corner because a conservative candidate isn't perfect, while the liberal candidates "celebrate" their imperfections and trot them out as evidence that their humanity trumps all others'. Get real!! I think these REAL life issues in the Palin world are present in many across the nation. She has faced many difficult issues and shown herself to be up to the challenge. Why are you balking in her behalf? She may not win the election but I sure hope she stands firmly in the front of the bus so that the next woman/man who comes along will get behind her and change what is ugly and wrong and broken and divisive in our nation -- prejudice has many forms.
I stand with Sarah Palin and support her more strongly today than last Friday.
But given the double set of double standards (one for men and one for women; and one for Repubicans and one for Democrats) ... Bristol Palin is getting the whole world dumped on her head right now.
Reaganite, did Gore put his family and family moral decisions front and center in his appeal to voters? Was his candidacy based on his appeal to anti-speeding voters? Was it already known that there was a SAH parent watching over the Gore brood?
Why aren't we also questioning Papa Obama's judgement here? If he is elected, his two daughters will go through puberty while their father is in the Oval Office, and they will do so at a time when their father's own supporters have legitimized panty-sniffing personal attacks on teenage girls, assaults which border on sexual abuse, as simply a part of how politics is done in this brave new world of "hope" and "change" that our would-be Lightworker-in-Chief is leading us toward. Shouldn't Barack spare his daughters from this, especially at the awkward and vulnerable age that they are entering now? No doubt Andrew Sullivan will have yet another change of heart come 2009, after which he will no doubt turn volte-face on the ideological dime and conclude it is his moral obligation to indulge in verbal battery not only of Barack's little girls, but also, one presumes, of Michelle. Am I alone out there in feeling he ought not to subject his wife and children to this kind of abuse?
Taking "the girl made her own decisions" meme one step further:
She chose to act in ways contrary to parents' beliefs (yes, I know of the "Sarah Palin conceived her first child out of wedlock" line). She exposed herself to impregnation. That turns her de facto into an adult. (Sorry, 15/16/17 year-old women have been having babies for thousands of years. Adolescence, etc., is a construction of modern western culture.)
That is part of being adult: taking responsibility for the whole panoply of consequences, including the fact that other people won't put their lives on hold because of your mistakes.
Thank goodness she has what looks like a supportive family to help her deal with it, with sufficient financial resources.
Does anyone else find it slightly troubling that so many posters here are comparing the unexpected birth of a Baby with the ILLEGAL actions of drinking and driving and drugs?
I almost think some posters feel the same as Obama: "I don't want my daughters punished with a Baby or and STD."
Huh? Whatever happened to a Baby being a Miracle? What is wrong with Liberal Left thinking these days?
I'm a life-long Democrat, and I feel my Party has moved so far left in the last two years that I no longer feel I know what it has become. Me and my family have joined the Republican Party and will be actively supporting McCain/Palin '08.
I am not attacking Gov. Palin because of her daughter's pregnancy but I do question how she can juggle it all. And this is not only because she is a woman it is more of a family related question. I believe I would say the same if she were a man. There is a lot going on in that family right now - a son going to war, a daughter pregnant, a newborn with Down's syndrome and two other children who need plenty of attention and support at this time. It seems to me that this would not be the most opportune time to run for VP. When my 2 children, were younger, I changed jobs due to the demands of time and travel. In addition, when my husband was offered a business opportunity which included a great deal of travel, he chose not to accept it so that he could support the boys' sports, music and scouting activities. Each family makes choices and parents their own way, and while I know one is not right or wrong, it does make me question both her and Sen. McCain's judgment and family values. As far as the pregnancy, I do not hold that against the parents, teens make stupid choices all the time, though there is some irony in it since the Governor Palin has promoted a policy of abstinence only with no birth control education.
This seems to me a good example of a situation where Americans abuse the freedom to criticize political leaders and other "celebrity" types.
Why do critics of Palin's decision think they are knowledgeable enough to make a judgment on this decision, to see Palin as "diminished" somehow by her decision to run for office in the midst of difficult circumstances?
Is it possible it was a bad decision? Sure. Does that mean we should use our liberty to discuss this as if we knew much about the circumstances? I don't think so. Isn't there a kind of modesty that is lost when people indulge the need to comment on events in the lives of public persons as if our opinions were either valuable or well-informed with respect to the specific situation?
Let the Palins make their decisions without perpetuating internet immodesty. This seems far too similar to gossip for my conscience.
Bristol got herself in trouble. I'm happy her family stood up for her, and she is going to get married.
On one hand its what she did. And on the other hand Sarah would have had some hand in it.
Unfortunatly what our family does will come back to us if we are in the public eye. It isn't right, but its the way things are.
I just hope next time this happens to a "liberal" that the "conservatives" stand up for the "liberal". If they don't then it is more proof for the hypocracy of that side which I no longer claim to be a part of.
I really hope that we remember Bristol's situation is not unique. And next time our rivials are in this mess we will be more understanding.
I doubt that Bristol Palin is any more of a shrinking violet than her mother is. I wouldn't be at all surprised that she does just fine. In whatever office she eventually runs for.
As for Sarah, ambition edges out maternalism. So far I think she handles both fairly well. And I think she will eat Joe Biden's lunch.
My only question is, how does Todd keep all those balls in the air? Commercial fisherman, oil field worker, champion Iron Dogger, stay-at-home dad. Mmmm...
The girl is 17 not 12. She can be tried as an adult no doubt in her state like most states at ther current age now.
As it has been said on here and news reports say people in Alaska knew about it.
I am curius why we are treating agirl that is getting married at the age that many of our grandparents did as a child.
I suggest people that have this view to please raise the age you can elist in the army , the age you can vote, the age you can drink, the age you can enter contracts, and the age you can elist in the army to age 25.
Palin is GOvernor of Alaska and her party and her country called her to serve. THis is all becoming silly
"No, they shouldn't. But given the double set of double standards (one for men and one for women; and one for Repubicans and one for Democrats) ... Bristol Palin is getting the whole world dumped on her head right now. But back in August 2000 (3 months before the election) Al Gore III's "privacy" was protected, because, after all, it was "the right and decent thing to do.""
Actually, Reaganite, the Al Gore III incident was played up by many on the right.
Michelle Malkin: www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin102500.asp
Rush Limbaugh (July 5, 2007 transcript): "RUSH: There is one thing about the Algore III story that puzzles me. All of these people pushing these hybrids, what have they not been telling us? How in the world do you get a Toyota Prius to go a hundred miles an hour without a cliff to go over? This is the first time I have ever heard one of these hybrids will do a hundred miles an hour. And if it will, what's the point? How much fuel are you burning at a hundred miles? How much damage are you creating to the environment when you're driving one of these things a hundred miles an hour? I thought one of the points of having these things was you couldn't go out there and burn up a lot of gasoline and get lousy miles per gallon statistics and so forth and so on. His sister picked him up in a Maserati. A V8 400-horsepower Maserati took Algore III home."
And as far as the MSM, I'd suggest you Google "Al Gore III" and arrest just to see how often it was reported by CBS, CNN, ABC, NBC, FAUX, and other MSM outlets. I show some 847K hits on that search alone, with most of the first 100 either MSM websites or widely read blogs (including DailyKos and Huffington).
Sorry dude, your biased media dog won't hunt on this one.
Only sinners need Jesus.
The rest of you are to be applauded.
I would hope that the Palin family gives some thought to the prospective bridegroom and whether he would be a suitable husband. My sister-in-law was in a shotgun wedding forty years ago to a small time crook and big time philanderer. When it was all over, everyone felt that it would have been better for her to have been an unwed mother.
I'm one of those who was really excited about Sarah Palin, but is now a little unsure of the depths of my devotion. I'm also not sure if this reaction is justified or if I am being ridiculous. That's why I am commenting so much on it; it helps me to sort out my thoughts.
I freely admit I do have a double standard for men and women. I'm a woman, by the way; mother of three daughters. So I view all of this teenage-daughter-pregnant business though mom-colored glasses, so to speak.
If my daughter were 17 and pregnant, I honestly do not think I would go through with a vice-presidential campaign right at that time. I would not want my precious, if impulsive and headstrong, teenage girl to be torn apart in the media frenzy. And whether it is ethical or not, the media will (and is) having a field day with this one. As conservatives, we are held to a higher standard; as Christians, the standard gets higher still. If Jesus came back tomorrow, the NYT would no doubt have a lot to say about his intolerant attitude toward oppressed money-changers and the tabloids would go nuts with the whole sinful-woman-anointing-his-feet scandal, complete with blurry video on YouTube...
It would be a different story if Bristol were a bit older. Say she was 27 and a single pregnant woman, and a lot of the brouhaha would disappear. It would be a minor scandal, kind of like when we found out that Dick Cheney's daughter was a lesbian -- people on the left would say "ha-ha, you're a hypocrite," and then everyone would forget about it immediately. Surely no one expects parents of an adult woman to enforce a curfew, or not allow them on individual dates, or make her leave her bedroom door open when the boyfriend is over, etc.. Bristol's choices would be seen as just that -- Bristol's choices, not any reflection upon her parents.
However, we DO expect parents of 17 year olds to have some sort of control over their behavior (probably wishful thinking), and to have make some sort of attempt to shield them from situations they are not ready for. So while the whole pregnancy thing was apparently not a secret in Alaska, well, Alaska's a pretty small place (population-wise) and Palin was an astonishingly popular governor. No one was out to do a hatchet job on her. To my mother-shaped viewpoint, if my daughter was pregnant, well, everyone in town would soon know, but these are our friends and neighbors; she wouldn't be featured on the six o'clock news and people wouldn't be calling her names in the national papers.
Now, to the other point that has been made: why are not the same standards applied to male public figures? It clearly is a double standard. Whether or not this double standard is justified, I don't know.
As I've mentioned before, I am pushing 40, so I'm maybe not as comfortable with the idea of mom working full time and dad staying home as the younger generation is. I am quite sure that if MY mother had left my father in charge, I would have eaten nothing but highly sugared breakfast foods and done nothing but watch "Wide World of Sports" and "Kung Fu Theater" on TV (wait a minute! that's what we did do every Saturday while my mom was at work!), but no doubt modern dads are more competent than that.
I don't know. I am still unsure what I think about all this. Now everything is starting to bug me -- the oddly named children, the pregnant daughter, the self-described "f---in' redneck" boyfriend, etc.. It is perhaps more of the common touch than I am comfortable with. While I am certainly in touch with my inner hillbilly, and we did have a deceased washer/dryer combo sitting in our side yard for longer than I care to admit, I don't really WANT a Vice President who is just like me. I mean, I would be a TERRIBLE public leader; I'd be leaving wet bathing suits to dry out on the front porch of the Capitol, my kids would be disrespectful to foreign dignitaries, my limousine would have goldfish crackers and empty juice boxes stuffed in all the air conditioning vents, I would forget important people's names and my dog would try to hump Putin's leg. Maybe the problem lies more with me than with Sarah Palin, and I need to just get over it.
Enough rambling for me today; tomorrow I will no doubt have an entirely different opinion.
DonF:
You're confusing apples and oranges --- not to mention likening getting pregnant as akin to committing actual crimes (DWI, reckless driving, possesion of drugs, etc.) that regrettably Gore's son did commit.
You're also talking about coverage by Limbaugh and Malkin regarding crimes by Al Gore III years AFTER his father (Gore, Jr.) was a Presidential candidate (in 2002, 2003 and 2007).
However, I was comparing the relative lack of media coverage of AG III's speeding and reckless driving charges (DURING AUGUST 2000 in North Carolina) when his father was the nominee and only 10 weeks away from the General Election ... with the unfair treatment that Bristol Palin is getting now (THREE -- count em, THREE -- stories about Bristol Palin in today's NY Times).
BTW, I'm sure that Limbaugh would be gratified to know that you're such a loyal listener and that Malkin would be overjoyed to learn that you follow her writings so assidously. Or maybe you're just employed by that left-wing, Soros-funded media harrassment organization.
Bristol is having a baby, not hatching a plot to overthrow the United States. Give the girl a break, and see Slate's article today calculating the odds that other presidential candidates' daughters have been in similar situations.
Also, wouldn't it put far more pressure on her, as some of the other posters have mentioned, to make her responsible not only for her own choices, but for her mom's career? She is already a teenage mother, and clearly visible as such to any who care to be judgmental. National exposure doesn't seem like it will add much to that; using her situation to tie her mother down, however, would be a terrible burden. She's an adult. Let her handle this in peace.
God bless her and her family, and kudos to them for making a choice for life.
This is an interesting discussion.
But let's consider for a moment: suppose Palin hadn't been offered or hadn't accepted the VP slot. Her daughter is still an unmarried pregnant woman, and Sarah is still the governor of Alaska. Her daughter's pregnancy is going to be national news one way or the other if only because Palin had been talked about as a potential VP or a possible 2012 candidate for the Republican ticket. I don't see how she is exposing her daughter to a significantly greater amount of attention by accepting this nomination, especially if the bizarre rumors about Trig being Bristol's son hadn't forced the family to discuss Bristol's pregnancy a bit sooner than they might have liked.
Moreover, I liked the point about "shame," above. There's a difference between protecting our children generally and shielding them from the consequences of their actions. Too often today we parents--and I include myself in this--want to do both, when we should only be doing the first. But the parent who, for instance, bails out his teenage son on a shoplifting or vandalism charge, or sends a daughter away to live with relatives so the community won't ever learn that she has been pregnant, isn't really doing the child any favors in the long run, especially when we're talking about "children" who are seventeen or eighteen years old. By that age children who are engaging in adult activities understand cause and effect, and can learn and grow from having to face, in a mature fashion, the real consequences of their actions.
In a way, the effect this will have on Bristol Palin depends a bit on us, on how we react to the story and on how long it's a headline. To that extent I was disappointed that it was the second story on the radio news I woke up to this morning, having been bumped only slightly by the reports re: Gustav, and that the NYT and other papers are giving it so much space. Focusing so intently on this young woman seems to be doing the opposite of what Barack Obama called for when he said that the story was "off limits," an admirable position which I think we might consider actually taking.
I would respectfully ask anyone who has a dimmer view of Palin today because of the spotlight on her daughter to consider one thing.
She must have discussed her possible nomination with them before she accepted it. Most people do. I cannot imagine a scenario where a person with a family would fail to consult with them before taking such a step.
Couldn't it just possibly be that Palin had her daughter's support and permission to make the announcement? I think it highly likely.
Any undue attention paid to the child afterwards is on the media, not on her mother. The media needs to drop the story immediately. It is not relevant.
Erin makes the most sense.
Bristol Palin is 17 years old-one year away from being a young adult. There's consequences to all of our actions, and her mother shouldn't have to put her career on hold to spare her soon-to-be adult child the consequences of her actions.
Perhaps Sarah Palin puts duty to country above all else. There is that possibility. Brooks dismisses it rather too breezily, and to judge by most comments here the thought is as ridiculous as a man putting a barbers basin on his head and turning knight-errant. Yeah, I'm disappointed that the lady isn't perfect, but I'll be much more disappointed if she turns tail now.
I live in a coastal community in Alaska and raised four kids here while working in the fish industry. My work involved many long days and weeks (without weekends off)while raising my family. My husband was equally as busy working in this industry. I was never attempting to be a superwoman. I just did what I had to do to survive economically and provide for my family and my children knew that.
Within my realm of friendships and acquaintances; I knew moms who made sacrifices (and could afford) to stay at home. That was their decision and I supported them. Years later, our kids are grown and we reflect on how our decisions as parents effected the kids. Unfortunately many of the adult children raised by stay at home moms have had their troubles (alcohol and drug addictions, breaking laws etc.) like other families out there. Our family has had its own challenges while our kids transitioned into adulthood but thankfully nothing earth shattering and all are doing well.
I can't help but think that the difficulties and challenges that our family had to endure with two working parents might have actually helped better prepare and toughen our kids for life. Believe me; life was very tough at times for our family and through our example, the children learned how to deal with difficulties.
My point is that I see no issue with Sarah Palin accepting McCain's VP offer. Life is all about learning how to get through difficulties and it gets messy sometimes. It seems obvious to me that the Palins, as a family are willing to deal with the difficulties that (they know) lie ahead. And more power to them.
Women have made great contributions throughout history and the mommy argument just doesn't hold up here. I just can't believe that we are still arguing over the role of women in government and society. It is so very backward.
Apparently, our society still that an illegitimate teenage pregnancy taints the entire family, and disqualifies all members of the family for public service. Accordingly, is there any doubt why so many people support abortion rights? If we ever want to persuade people to hold pro-life values, we must change our way of thinking and remove the idea that teen pregnancy is shameful.
Again, no time to read all the comments.
I am disappointed (wanted to say "deeply disappointed," but that might be too strong) in Sarah Palin's decision to subject her daughter to this. Maybe her daughter wanted her mother to go through with it, but in my mind, a mature parent spares her child that kind of decision. Put yourself in the daughter's place: you already screwed up, as the governor's daughter, and now you're going to tell your mom not to run for Vice President because of your mistake? What kind of guilt trip would that be? Maybe her daughter is wise beyond her years, but then if she were, we probably wouldn't be talking about this to begin with.
I haven't officially decided, but I was not planning to vote before Sarah Palin was announced as VP. When she was announced, I was going to vote for McCain because of her. Since the pregnancy thing, I'm leaning again toward sitting this one out.
MJ
Re: the timing of Al III's problems. The first reckless driving incident happened only a short time before the election, true. I would note however, that it was common knowledge inside the Beltway in the '98-'99 timeframe that the lad had been kicked out of St. Alban's (the posh Episcopal school that Daddy had gone to, and a lot of others in the high political class) for repeated marijuana possession while on school grounds. Al Jr. called in just about every IOU he had with media publishers to keep a lid on the story, and it was never trumpeted in print or in the pre-blogosphere internet.
It wasn't as if Al III's life was ever in danger of being ruined. They just transferred him over to Sidwell Friends (another posh private school for the DC elite, and Chelsea Clinton's school), and his legacy admission to Harvard was never in jeopardy. But no one claimed that Al and Tipper should shift their attention to family business instead of matters of state as a result of their son's pharmaceutical issues.
Yes, the "mom" in me thought about Mrs. Palin, as well. I heard Bill O'Reilly say today that this election won't be decided on abortion. I don't know Mr. O'Reilly, but I do know what matters to me. As far as I am concerned, and yes I have no right to judge, Mrs. Palin, is not focusing on the family she has. She has an infant child, with special needs, and another child going off to war. She now has a child who is expecting. I'm not sure why, but I wonder whether she is a selfish person who is simply focusing on her career, no matter what the stakes, to her family. As a woman who decided to put my family first, and forego my career for awhile, it is hard for me to separate my gender when I think about Mrs. Palin. Also, I just do not and cannot ever think of a time when we will not honor the CHOICE of all women, including our daughters.
One other thought- people keep bringing up that she has a baby with "special needs". I don't know much about it, but from the little research I did, caring for a baby with Downs Syndrome doesn't sound like it is NECESSARILY any more involved than caring for an average baby, just potentially different. Is this the case? If so, can we quit harping on that point?
As for care of any newborn, mothers and babies are all unique. Some babies would no doubt be perfectly happy to spend most of their early months in a sling with mom at work, and some mothers would no doubt be happy to have them there. I know some kids are a lot more high maintenance, but can't we assume Ms. Palin has evaluated the situation and feels like she's doing what's best for her family?
Perhaps it is due to increased visibility, the fact that more people know about it, and have at least seen shows, etc, about it, but it seems that opinions about children with Down Syndrome are the most divergent.
On one hand, you have those who think it is one of the worst things that can happen, and any and everything must be done to avoid it.
On the other, we have the overly rosy scenario that life with a child with Down Syndrome will be no different that it would be if you had a child who did not.
It is not the most horrific thing that can happen, but yes, in most cases, things are different when your child has Down Syndrome.
Since the mental complications are the most well known, I'll start with the physical complications first.
Children with Down syndrome have digestive issues which result in frequent constipation (and you'd have to have a baby to know that's not as trivial as it sounds, at least as far as time and attention and such goes). They have a form of spinal malformation that can result in spinal compression if not properly treated.
Hypothyroidism is common, and needs to be diagnosed and treated early if present. Hearing loss, congenital heart disease, vision disorders and seizures are rather common as well.
Hearing loss is common in up to 80 percent of children with DS, as well as heart complications severe enough to require surgery. Children with DS are 10 to 15 times more likely to develop leukemia.
And then there are the developmental delays, that can vary widely in severity.
None of these are, properly monitored and, if possible, treated, are insurmountable and the child can live a long and productive life. BUT.. the idea that this child would not require more involved care than a child without Down Syndrome is a bit.. overly optimistic.
Michelle Malkin was making an issue of Al Gore III as far back as 2000. See http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin102500.asp .
Thanks, Karen. That helps clear up what "special needs" means in this case. I just don't like making the assumption, you know?
>>>
What is really incredible is this particular hypocrisy, as the Right has been blaming underage pregnancies on the Left for years (cultural norms, and all that). Once again, turn the tables, and the Right can't see it's been doing the same thing all along.
Get Real.
I don't have children, so I could be way off base here. Palin, the elder, is an adult who has a life and a career independent from her children. Palin, the younger, has stepped into a situation that thousands of young women have been in and navigated with the help of family, perhaps by marrying young. It's not earth-shattering. I know that teenagers are emotionally vulnerable, but they are also perilously close to being independent adults. If Palin, the elder, believes that accepting the nomination for vice-president is the career choice she wants and it's important, then I don't fault her for taking it in this situation. Palin, the younger, will realize soon enough that media memory is very short and she won't remain a news item for long.
I spent two years in the Canadian bush back in the 80's. I'd be surprised if a Governor coming out of Alaska would be fully aware of the ubiquity and nastiness of the press down here.
I aslo doubt most of us would have expected this level of press reaction to the family's situation. I would have expected the courtesy that was extended to Chelsea Clinton through her mother's campaign.
I come here to read the opinions of others, not to flame or be disrespectful. But I feel compelled to respond to the following:
"If Bristol had opted for abortion over her parents pro-life stance she would surely be on EVERY liberal front page with a rousing "high five" for her brilliant choice to kill the inconvenience."
I am actually a libertarian, but that is of no import as I am also pro choice as our many of my friends and family. I am also a devout Christian of the Episcopal stripe. (Although perhaps some here would disagree)
I don't know anyone who would "high five" an abortion. Pro Choice simply doesn't mean that we all get together and celebrate abortion. The very thought is ridiculous. I hope and pray that over the years abortion becomes a very rare event indeed. I also hope that for women facing the choice, they have that- the choice. And if they choose to give birth, I hope society and family is supportive and accepting.
Just my two cents from the other side.
NYC Libertarian: why would you hope that abortion becomes a very rare event? Is there something wrong with it? And if so, what would that be?
Please don't blame Palin for the "national spotlight" on her daughter; blame the media! Making you doubt Palin for their exposure of her daughter is just what the media want. Palin was right not to pay them her political career in ransom for her daughter's privacy.
Ben @ 9:39 PM writes:
"Please don't blame Palin for the "national spotlight" on her daughter; blame the media! Making you doubt Palin for their exposure of her daughter is just what the media want. Palin was right not to pay them her political career in ransom for her daughter's privacy."
Sorry, Ben. The only people I blame for the "national spotlight" on Bristol Palin and her mother are Bristol Palin and her mother.
Sarah Palin is a provincial governor, and as such should expect to be subject to media and other scrutiny. Having known this for at least two years, it was incumbent on her to exercise some control and supervision over her children to minimize the possibility that something like this would happen. She knew the risks of what she did, or, in this case, what she failed to do.
Bristol Palin is the irresponsible juvenile who blackened both her reputation and that of her family by getting pregnant out of wedlock. She also knew the risks of her actions---find a modern American child over the age of 6 that hasn't been marinated to death in the knowledge !---yet she went and engaged in the disgraceful act that dishonored herself and brought shame on her family.
They knew the risks of what they did. Yet they went ahead with their behaviors anyway; they both gambled and lost. Now they pay for it.
I say "tough darts". They are simply getting a taste of what they deserve. The only question remaining is whether either of them have enough of a sense of shame or personal honor to do the right thing.
Bristol Palin needs to quietly withdraw from the public spotlight and concentrate on raising her child.
Sarah Palin needs to resign immediately, both from the governorship and from the McCain ticket. To allow her to remain in public office, or in contention for public office, is to dishonor both the governorship and the Vice Presidency, as well as those who held those posts before her and the public she allegedly wishes to serve.
Your servant,
Lord Karth
Wait just a minute. This is far more than a teenage daughter's pregancy are you sweeping under the table the DUI, the drug use and the ethnics scandals (trooper gate and illegal campaign contributions). Add to that Mc Cain's lying about "a real solid vetting" and that is only what we have learned since last Friday. Dan Qualye may come out looking better.
I asked my husband, who supports Palin's choice to take the position, this question: what would you do if it were you or I running for office and our daughter was pregnant at 17? He said he probably would go ahead with it, for two reasons. First, it would teach her a lesson, and second, why should the sin of one family member prevent the rest of the family from living their lives?
As I think about it more, I think he's right, particularly about the "teaching a lesson" part. Being a loving parent in this situation means letting the teenager deal with the humiliation that is a consequence of their sin, but also providing the financial and emotional support needed to help their teenager choose life. Is the humiliation heavier for a teen whose parent is in the public eye? Of course it is, but Palin was already governor when Bristol got pregnant. Regardless of the VP run, everyone in Alaska would have found out about her situation. And the REAL humiliation comes from people closest to you knowing about your sin. Does it really matter whether the number of total strangers talking about you is 600,000 or 60 million? And wouldn't it be even more shameful to know your indiscretion caused your mom or dad to give up such an opportunity as being nominated for VP? It would be a lot harder for a young woman to live with herself for that, in the long run, than to live with a momentary public exposure of a sin she has committed.
If in Alaska 17yr old Bristol is considered a minor, does that make Levi who is 18yrs old guilty of statutory rape?
K Street Catholic @ 7:50 AM writes:
"[W]hat would you do if it were you or I running for office and our daughter was pregnant at 17? He said he probably would go ahead with it, for two reasons. First, it would teach her a lesson, and second, why should the sin of one family member prevent the rest of the family from living their lives?"
If I was running for office and I discovered my 17-year-old daughter was pregnant at 17, I would withdraw from the race immediately and issue a public apology. If I was already serving, I would resign immediately, with a public apology.
As I wrote earlier, the actions we take as individuals affect those around us, especially our families. As parents, we are obligated to exercise maximum efforts to inculcate good moral values in our children. The Palins have obviously failed to do so in regard to their wayward daughter. That failure is direct evidence of dereliction of duty and failure of judgment on the part of the parent, and by extension is evidence of her unfitness to serve. To allow her to continue in office is to permit a stain on a public trust.
By the same token, the conduct of a child directly reflects on the parents (and, to a lesser extent on siblings and grandparents). As children, we are required to obey our parents and respect their teachings. (Concept is called "discipline".) Bristol Palin should have known better than to do what she did. Her actions bring disgrace not only to her, but to her parents, siblings and grandparents as well.
Since it is Bristol's family that produced this disgraceful child, it is Bristol's family that needs to take action to remedy the problem. Getting the father of this child to marry her is simply a good first step. They need to get her out of the public spotlight, the better to allow these two to quietly begin the process of restoring the family reputation through hard work and exemplary conduct.
Both Sarah and Bristol Palin owe apologies to quite a few people, their family not least among them.
Your servant,
Lord Karth
If you think teen pregnancy is a bad thing, doesn't Bristol's fairytale-like story validate teen pregnancy?
Bristol is now famous because of her pregnancy. And because her mom is a governor running for national office, of course the guy in the picture is going to stick around. I'm sure most teens would not have the same luck, but may hope to be living the same fairytale if they happen to get pregnant.
It seems Bristol was sexually active at age 16 and will deliver at age 17. What was her mother and father doing about supervision and, please permit me, vetting this young man.
My understanding is that she was taught abstinance only without contraceptives. What is the relationship with Bristol and her father and especially her mother. Values?
And why was her mother seeking a fifth child as she is evidently quite ambitious. (I'll say seeking since she was evidently not using contraceptives). Indeed, she can afford to have a special needs child with her insurance and their income. I still question her judgement. She can have as many children as she wants but please tell me the time to care for the family and be an agressive VP as she is evidently displaying. Her track record with her second oldest child is not encouraging.
Post a Comment
By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.