Run! Sarah Palin's a scary religious nut!

Its scary because she isn't talking like she is wishing she is talking like she knows. Just like W. did.

IMO its God's will that we get out of Iraq.

"Is it just me, or does this sound like Palin is praying that the mission will be aligned with God's will?"

It is just you--- after all she did call the war a "task from God".

Funny you would take issue with this Rod, especially after you balleyhooed about your opposition to the war on NPR one time and have written how upset you have been about the war. I guess that it was just a passing phase and you have returned to your core convictions.

I hope you reaped whatever benefit that you initially sought to have in appearing objective. But hey, you gotta keep the base happy. Keep up the good work.

ALASKA FIRST!

See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/levi-johnston-bristol-pal_n_123089.html

On his MySpace page, Levi Johnston, Bristol's baby's father, boasts, "I'm a f - - -in' redneck" who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.

Maybe the family values just didn't trickle down in the selection of Bristol's boyfriend. Me, I think Evangelicals are being played for suckers, even now. For all we know Sarah Palin just uses Pentecostal churches to network for support. Truth is, with such little experience and media exposure we don't really know anything about this lady.

It seems like most of the right, since Friday has been ready to eat up whatever the McCain campaign and FOX NEWS feeds 'em.

I will say again, that if Bristol and Levi become tabloid fodder for folks to see at the local check-out a couple of times a week - Republicans are really gonna wish McCain had picked a more qualified and vetted candidate. The more Bristol looks like Britney Speares, the more wacky her mother is gonna look to independent voters skeptical of the GOP.

My stars!!!!!!!!! You mean bloggers are saying crazy things during an election season????? It can't be. I'm shocked, shocked, to find out there's gambling going on here.

It makes you wish for the halcyon days when the Obamas were being fileted by the conservative blogosphere. Remember the analysis of Michelle Obama's college thesis? And the dissection of the Wright sermons? Or who can forget the days of "Is Obama a Muslim and is the UCC even more evil?" posts.

Ah, those were the good old days. But now those mean awful liberals are saying mean things about good Christian hockey moms and their pregnant daughters. It's an outrage, I tell you. An outrage.

"Maybe the family values just didn't trickle down in the selection of Bristol's boyfriend."

Obviously, you have never had a teenager. You can try to influence their choice of friends, but they will make their own choices about their friends, just as they will make their own choices about sex. If you have a problem with Levi's values, you should talk to his parents, not Bristol's...

I didn't see much in the Huffington Post article to be outraged about. The nut graph sums it up perfectly: "Palin's address, much of which was spent reflecting on the work of the church in which she grew up and was baptized, underscores the notion that her world view is deeply impacted by religion. In turn, her remarks raise important questions: mainly, what is Palin's faith and how exactly has it influenced her policies?"

I think that is a very reasonable question, particuarly when the author uses several Palin quotes that seem to imply that God has approved of various policies and pending legislation.

This is not so different from the media storm over Obama's pastor and how it may have shaped Obama's worldview. That seemed to be appropriate fodder for this blog. Why not now?

The article goes on to allege that Palin's pastor, like Obama's, performs a great deal of outreach to communities in need. And, like Wright, Palin's pastor has apparently made incendiary remarks (exp., ..."Critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war 'contending for your faith;' and said that Jesus 'operated from that position of war mode.'")

While it is certainly Rod's right to do back-flips over the GOP VP, I do find it disappointing that he has seemed to have lost sight of his more reflective posts from a few months ago in which he claimed, from a post-Bush perspective, to be more skeptical of (potential) U.S. leaders. So much for that.

On another note...

Palin, an obvously energizing young leader, may be exactly what it takes to make McCain the next president. But, what if he just sticks her in the traditional role of VP, that of a figure head, an understudy to take his place if he goes down? What if McCain is using her in a cynical attempt to once again lure religious conservatives in to the GOP fold, only to pull the proverbial football away once the election is over? Dreher, to my reading, hasn't addressed this very likely possibility. Like many social conservatives, Dreher seems content with just having someone on the ticket who will say "pro-life" in a few stump speeches, and then express shock and horror when the issue is tabled when it matters most--after the election.

My question is: When exactly are social conservatives going to hold their candidates' feet to the fire and make them act on their words? Because, really, the GOP has treated the lot of you like patsies for the past 30 years. Yet you keep falling for the same bag of tricks.

The Huffington Post is not your problem. Your blind support to cynical leadership is.

Good grief - are you people still circling around the same nonsense we spent all weekend pounding into incomprehensible jelly between those of us on the right, left and somewhere in between? I was pretty energetic with comments this weekend, but occasionally one must engage in a three-dimensional world, go for a jog or a swim, pray, gnosh on some antipasto with friends, smoke a pipeful of some good tobacco, read a book, call your mother, sleep. Seriously, I wish I had this much time on my hands! Why don't a few of you take a time-out from the keyboard and get some fresh air - especially Daniel, at this point your posture has got to practically melting into your computer chair. Your spine is crying out for relief! I need someone to argue with, so I'd rather you stay moderately healthy.

It may be that Obama is not the only candidate with a preacher problem. Also from HuffPo:

"He also claims to have received direct "words of knowledge" from God, providing him information about past events in other people's lives. During one sermon, he described being paired with a complete stranger during a golf outing. "I said, I'm a minister from Alaska and I want you to know that your wife left you -- you know that your wife left you and that the Lord is gonna defend you in a very short time, and it wasn't your fault. And the man drops his clubs, he literally was about to tee off and he dropped his clubs, and he says, 'Who the blank are you?' And I says, 'well, I'm a minister.' He says, 'how do you know about my life? What do you know?' And I started giving him more of the word of knowledge to his life and he was freaked out."

Well, at least Sarah Palin isn't claiming she has the word of knowledge, or is that the next revelation?

Rob -- do you mean that there are conservative evangelical pastors in America who believe in the supernatural, and that Sarah Palin's pastor is one of them?

Rod's right -- RUN!!!!!

If there's a parallel between a presidential candidate who spends twenty years under a pastor who imbues hatred for America as it is, and a presidential candidate who has a pastor who believes in a God who acts in ways that humans aren't able to, I'm missing it.

Rod, the scary part is not what you describe and analyze. The scary part is that Palin was "preaching to the choir" and there is no consideration for how "the choir" will interpret her phrasing based on closely held and agreed upon assumptions vs. how the many of us who are not members of "the choir" are left to muddle through it.

Please, do me a favor, and step into non-choir members' shoes for a moment, and give us a break: to our ears and eyes, she was being ambiguous. If you have to come back and explain it to us, then it was assuredly unclear.

It is not paranoia to be worried whenever someone cites "God's will".

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
- Susan B. Anthony

"If there's a parallel between a presidential candidate who spends twenty years under a pastor who imbues hatred for America as it is, and a presidential candidate who has a pastor who believes in a God who acts in ways that humans aren't able to, I'm missing it."

The parallel is this: Wright in his more extreme moments expressed hatred for the collective politics of America. Sarah Palin's pastor pronounces judgment of damnation on the very souls of individual Americans who disagree with his political views. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Unless you believe one of the pastors is right. I don't.

Sarah Palin's pastor pronounces judgment of damnation on the very souls of individual Americans who disagree with his political views.

Palin's pastor did that? Link please.

"Does any informed person truly believe that this woman is ready to be the chief executive of the United States of America? "

The exact same question can be asked of Obama and his supporters. If Obama is ready, then Palin is ready.

Besides, Palin isn't running for the Chief Executive office. Obama is. So, the question is actually more important when asked of HIM than of HER.

Denton, applying the same question to Obama does not answer it for Palin. You're not answering the question. Just because the Democrats make a choice about Obama doesn't justify the Republican's choice of Palin.

Second, like him or not Obama clearly has much more relevant experience than Palin. Let's not fool ourselves. Consider for a second how successful Palin might have been as a presidential candidate.

Lastly, as I said before Palin is not the real issue. McCain's choice of Palin is the issue and in my opinion it reflects poorly on him.

Also from the article:

[As for his former congregant and current vice presidential candidate, Kalnins has asserted that Palin's election as governor was the result of a "prophetic call" by another pastor at the church who prayed for her victory. "[He made] a prophetic declaration and then unfolds the kingdom of God, you know."]

So can we start refering to Palin as "The One" now?

I second everything Lancelot Lamar just said above.

What the left fails to realize is that they are rapidly undermining any chance that Barack Obama ever had to have a successful presidency on the terms that his campaign has set for itself. Even if he squeaks into office, there is no chance now that he will have much of a mandate if any at all and what support he does have will quickly erode since there are so many people now who have been offended by his and his supporters' tendency to strike below the belt again and again and again on questions of religion and of social class.

If the left-wing of the Democratic Party hoped to succeed by emulating Karl Rove's playbook, then they may very well succeed.

However, I expect that their Messiah will have any even harder time in office than the previous, slightly more-intelligent and slightly more-well-qualified, Ivy League alumnus empty-suit to occupy the Presidency.

The "wasilly" jibe is so petty, so vulgar, so mean, and so suggestive of either a hard or a hollow heart that one can only wish that the man who made it would -- for all of our sakes as well as his own -- visit some sort of psychiatrist or better yet some priest. Not that he's shown much wisdom in matters of the cloth. Perhaps that's why he's ended up like this.

Right on, Alicia re: the "war prayer". (Tho I'm not so sure that the "pipeline is God's will" sits as easily with me.)

I agree also that Gov. Palin deserves a chance to be heard and considered on her merits, and that our illustrious press should be given time to do their job and research her record, experience and help us see the decisions she made. There will be more than enough real, substantive information becoming available to us to make better judgements about her than the current hyperventilating that is taking place.

Duh-sciple, are you a Marcionite? Your comments 8 and 9 cause me to ask.

Well played, Mr. Beckwith, though I do wonder why you chose not to address your "rebuttal" to me personally. It would have added the icing to your intellectually lazy reading of my text to brand me personally as low-brow without (much) risk of being accused of ad hominem.

I neither asked for nor expressed the need for personal reassurance. Disambiguation will come for me in due course. In the meantime, as a sincere Christian you may want to pay attention to the well-meaning ignoramuses out there who, just as some of your brethren are wont to do, will find themselves with a Hobson's choice and picking the one that seems less of a risk to them, namely branding Palin exactly as you don't want her branded.

History has taught us that Christians are persecuted and killed now because their predecessors spoke and acted in ways that scared the local powers that be. It doesn't matter to the current locals that you all have changed your ways. Why should they risk a repeat performance? Have you been paying attention to how well Christian assurances of that change have played in some places?

I know, I know... those places are not the US, though I do seem to see an increasing frequency of "we are persecuted!" rhetoric in our media.

Or, you can just continue on not caring about how you are perceived. I don't know about you, but I bet there's a simple explanation for the drop in identified Christians (from 80% to 75% and still dropping by the accounts I've seen) in the US over the last few years. People might not be hearing the love in the message of God's Love.

I had never heard of Marcionism, so I learned something new from this thread.

"The s**tstorm from the left reaches Gustavian proportions"

You stay classy, Rod...

Heaven forbid that I should be a Marcionite.

Perhaps I could clarify this way.
Jesus overcomes evil through good, never retaliating evil against evil.
His death on the cross was/is FOR OTHERS, taking away sin.

Thus, the imperial religion was a fraud- with its sacrifices and idols.

Further, the distorted Jewish faith had become a fraud, losing the sense of the original call that Abraham's descendants were "blessed to be a blessed". The Temple system has become a rip-off. Instead of freeing people free of their burden to sin, it increased the burden, causing you to wonder whether you had done enough, constantly funding the Temple economy, making the "partners" rich (high priest, Sadduccees, etc)

Sadly, I see faith today as distorted towards "national security" over against Christ's kingdom.

I see faith privatized to a get-my-rear-into-heaven, looking out for number one, saying the right formulas, understanding all the mysteries, performing impressive miracles, yet without love for the least, the lost, the struggling sinner.

I see that Jesus rejected the values of Empire. He didn't wine/dine with the movers/shakers, seeking their funding and support. Instead he practiced table fellowship with the losers, the rejects, and the outcasts-- the ones absent from many churches.

Reading the early church fathers, to become a baptized Christian one had to renounce the sword, although some were baptized while holding their swords above the water. I look at the genocidal commands in the OT, Deuteronomy 7, "show them no mercy," and see that Jesus did in fact show mercy to a Canaanite woman's daughter in Matthew 15. A radical expansion of the circle of who gets blessed! I read Jesus as fulfilling, affirming and overthrowing biblical traditions, depending upon the context. You've heard it said... don't murder... but I say to you... don't be angry with your brother. That radicalizes the OT teaching, sending it on a new trajectory.

I hope that this clarifies and adds to the conversation.

Still learning, still growing,

Duh-sciple

"History has taught us that Christians are persecuted and killed now because their predecessors spoke and acted in ways that scared the local powers that be. "

What are you going to next, break a glass and shout something in German?

Sheesh! The lack of self-reflection is breathtaking.

The 8:54 am post is mine.

it is far more embarrassing that many Americans remain woefully ignorant of their neighbors' religions

Very true. My son and daughter in law recently married in a non-traditional ceremony presided over by a Unitarian minister. The vows and rituals were based in pagan/Wiccan practice. Some of the guests were friends from his previous time in a Catholic high school. They were perplexed. I watched him handle their questions with humor and grace. Fortunately, he was able to head off the tendency for badly-informed Christians to assume that Wiccans are Satan-worshippers. Few Americans know the difference between a Sikh and a Muslim. And, of course, many Protestants remain convinced to this day that Catholics are not "real Christians." The list goes on and on. Ignorance isn't limited to any one group, though sadly, it seems you can wend your way through more than one canon of dogma without ever acquiring respect for faiths that are not yours.

Franklin, that link you posted was truly dispiriting. : (

Until this becomes a full-fledged theocracy, I don't want any of my elected officials exhorting prayer, or sending young men and women into harm's way under any pretense that it's in synchronization with their perceptions of an Almighty's plan.

This is so wrongheaded.

So what happens when what we do as a country is not "in accord with the will of God"? Is God cool with waterboarding? Where does God draw the line?

I'm all for having a rich community filled with religious leaders of many faiths...and their faithful. Can we please also have political leaders, and keep them separate? Can we have a citizenry...a collection of citizens, and not make religious belief be a criterion for full-fledged citizenship?

"The Lord told me to gather money from the people to repair this sewer system."
"The Lord's plan is that we refuse to give our daughters options when they become pregnant, and persecute them when they wish to pursue options that their parents don't believe in."
"The Lord's plan is that we attack followers of Islam, because they don't believe as we do."

Can we please have political leaders who realize that the phrase "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance...recently, in historical terms...for political reasons?

Can we please realize the wisdom in separating the notion of faith from the notion of common government?

Sarah Palin is correct! It is written in God's Word. The left being unaware of what the Word says about current events, cannot keep this country safe from islam because they simply do not understand. Praise God for lifting up Christians to lead us during this woeful time in history. They will lead us according to the will of God.

We were drug into this religious war on 911. We did not do the dragging. We followed them back to their home turf to stop them from doing more. Our nation was founded on the Bible, not on doing good. God is not happy with islam, he loves the Jews, his chosen people, and there is Christianity within Catholicism, however it contains many deceptions.

Our nation was founded on the Bible,

Please furnish the quotation(s) from the Declaration of Independance and/or the US Constitution to support this thesis.

Umm, are you stupid, Iraq did not attack us it was mostly Saudi's, do you remember Bush & Chenny fast tracking the only flight 2 days after 911, it was full of Saudi's, wake up you ignorant fools before you destroy what is left of the once great nation, have you taken a look at what your party has done to the economy, you should apologize to your great great grandchildren for voting for the morons who have already spent their social security money on a pointless, stupid occupation of a soveriegn nation without a UN mandate? What about borrowing a billion dollars from the Chinese to give everyone in America $800 dollars they do not deserve? What about the day the Chinese call in the US dept and destroys our economy overnight. Your so blinded by your lack of education, lack of world knowledge, lack of empathy, lack of morals (or is torture OK with you because Bush said so?)
Christian appears to = stupid these day.

All woeful times in history (exaggerating for effect here) are created by a leadership of idiots from both ends of the spectrum too enamored of the sounds of their voices to hear, let alone listen to, the voices of moderation and sanity standing in between.

She Prayed in church, as an atheist I don't find that offensive.

Isn't it interesting how the Republican party are completely shielding her from the press? All they are giving us is this wholesome picture of a "Hockey Mom of 5 kids, and her youngest having Down Syndrome", and not much else. In her speech, she never really revealed much about herself, besides the obvious. I believe that the Republican party is purposely keeping her from reporters, because they know that once she is interviewed by top interviewers, some scary and uncomforting truths about her will be revealed. I think she is a dangerous person with extremist views, especially about religion, and for that, McCain's ticket makes me realy uneasy - I wish he would have picked a different VP. I wouldn't mind McCain becoming president, but knowing she is next in line, if something were to happen to McCain, is very, very troubling. Americans, other than the ones on the extreme right, should be very concerned about her.

I have to agree with Louise Williams. Her comments are dead on. Palin's beliefs and words are very counter intelligent. Religion has no place in government. Why half this country thinks it does is insane! God's plan? What are we, five years old? The term "God's plan" is farcical! I guess saying it's "God's plan" makes it okay to kill innocent people, or impose our beliefs & will onto others. Hitler had the same plan too. You people on the right are scary people. It's not about what's the best for our country or the world with you people, it's about what is best for you and your party. What's best for you must be what is best for this country and planet, right? Yep, Hitler's beliefs are alive and well in this country. But saying the word Hitler is a bit too honest. The term "God's plan" sounds better, more acceptable, more "politically correct" these days. I mean who would dare to argue against "God's plan", right? Calling "God's plan" is an insult to all those who believe in God, but is not a nut. To all those sheep out there, keep following your shepherds Bush, Cheney, McCain, and Palin. There will never be any getting through to you anyway. You need a conscience for that to happen. Continue with the regression of America.

Palin is a Christian extremist holding the reigns of power in Alaska. If that doesn't scare you then why all the worry about Muslim extremists? Palin believes in holy war. Palin believes Alaska is a "refugee state" of The Apocalypse of The World. She believes there will be a Rapture of the Saints. She is a premilinialist. She is a dominionist. She probably speaks in tongues. She probably doesn't let her children read Harry Potter. She probably doesn't let her children celebrate Halloween. It's even possible she doesn't let her children enjoy the fantasy of Santa Clause. I'm a christian (Christian Church/Disciples of Christ) ... and Sarah Palin isn't the kind of christian I'd be comfortable with on the pew and not even the kind of parent I'd want in my homeschool group, so why would I want to her as my VP!?! It isn't unreasonable to be scared of her.

The Republicans have waged a war on the press by, on one hand, keeping Sarah P away from press questions and, on the other hand, implying that the press is treating her poorly.

I think that the press is asleep at the wheel.

Barack Obama had to spend weeks defending his association with his pastor and his church.

However, the spoken messages from Palin on religion (ie pipeline is "God's Will" and so on) are nothing compared to the messages from her pastor (a vote against Bush will send a person to Hell).

We neet to demand that the press do its job. If Barack Obama had to defend his relationship with his church in front of the press and the American people, so should Sarah Palin. This is not a partisan issue. This is an issue of justice and fairness.

Nobody running for president or vice president should be given a pass by the press.

In the 19th century, we Brits ruled the waves and sent missionaries out to all points of the globe in order to force our version of Christianity on the masses.
Listening to Sarah Palin at the Republican convention made me think about how easy it is to be convinced by good speakers that it is OK to take over someone elses country and to do it in the name of your chosen religion and to talk about victory etc etc.

If anyone tried to invade my country for whatever reason, I would fight them, whatever their cause or religion.

Speaking in tongues, God's will on the pipeline and in Iraq, converting gays and preaching abstinence before marriage appear to be some of Gov. Palin's beliefs.

God help us all, if her ticket is elected!!!!!!

If you haven't seen the youtube videos of Palin's church, watch them. This is no ordinary nutty church. These people are dangerous.
No where in the world (well, there probably are some places in some dark jungle somewhere) could a nutcase like this be nominated as Vice President.

I am truly disturbed by the lack of attention Palin's craziness is receiving. Why are people not screaming from the rooftops that this woman is a potential Hitler. Her views are alarmingly reminiscent of multiple dictators. To put this woman in power would be outrageous and blantantly stupid!

I would like to see Palin give us a demonstration of her faith and speak in tongues in front of a national audience.

I am very concerned about the Sarah Palin issue. With Palin, our rights and liberties will be abrogated under the guise of being a "good Christian". Fundamentalism, is by its
very nature absolutist, totalitarian. The "believer" can only see in rigidly dualistic, black and white terms. They cannot tolerate ambiguity
or diversity in anyone or anything. For them, there is no room for human self-respect or self-regulating conduct. There is no room for questioning
or rational thought: ("If you think for yourself, you are under the power of Satan."). And in every case the purpose they serve is obvious.
They become remarkable only when seen within the grand, insidious machinery of fundamentalism; designed-by sedition- to build a "Christian America."
By indoctrinating people in this mindset and by inoculating them to believe that nothing is "true" unless it is "Christian," and that anything
can be made true by the decree of the brother-pastor, the machinery of fundamentalism functions psychologically to produce a
"new man in Christ," devoid of will and moral resistance, stripped of social and historical consciousness. This masochistic "morality" sees
the fulfillment of life in its very negation.
Sarah Palin's fundamentalism is heavily imbued with "dominionism" and "reconstructionism". Fundamentalists want the Christian equivalent of Islamic sharia - a strict, literal interpretation of Biblical law. This includes extending capital punishment to all of the capital offenses in ancient Israel. Included in those capital offenses are blasphemy and Sabbath breaking and worshiping of other Gods. Essentially then all atheists, agnostics, mystics, Buddhists and many others would be subject to capital punishment.
Sarah Palin's mind-set and world view needs to be openly addressed in the media. Do Americans want such a person, as Palin, to have access
to the top-secrets of the National Security Council, to preside over the US Senate, and to make descisions that affect millions of people.
There is a danger with someone who believes that she recieves exclusive guidance from God on policy descisions. This was a very reckless
and selfish descision on the part of John McCain to put this unstable woman on the ticket. James Madison, (the chief architect of the US Constitution), wrote in his "Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments" (June 20, 1785):

"...3. Because, it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment on our liberties. We hold this prudent jealousy to be the first duty of Citizens, and one of the noblest characteristics of the late Revolution. The free men of America did not wait till usurped power had strengthened itself by exercise, and entagled the question in precedents. They saw all the consequences in the principle, and they avoided the consequences by denying the principle. We revere this lesson too much soon to forget it. Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity, in exclusion of all other Religions, may establish with the same ease any particular sect of Christians, in exclusion of all other Sects? that the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute three pence only of his property for the support of any one establishment, may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever? ..."

If McCain dies while in office and Sarah is our president? Thats a very scary thought to me.

The fact is that many, many people, including our founding father believe and believed that there should be a distinct separation of church and state. There are very good historical reasons for this. I honestly dont believe that anyone is trying to mock any ones elses beliefs. Its just kinda scary to think we are "crusading" in the 21st century. Any Christian who thinks a crusade is or ever was gods will should reevaluate the teachings of jesus. Im pretty sure he wasnt down with any wars including the nightmare in iraq.