Prosperity Gospel helps bankrupt America
Friday October 3, 2008
The foul, vomitous, from-the-pit-of-hell Prosperity Gospel, it turns out, played a role in the housing and credit implosion. From Time: While researching a book on black televangelism, says Jonathan Walton, a religion professor at the University of California Riverside, he...
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About Crunchy Con
Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a color TV ?
Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh Lord, won’t you buy me a color TV ?
Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a night on the town ?
I’m counting on you, Lord, please don’t let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a night on the town ?
Boy, does this topic need more attention.
There is definitely a link between the Prosperity Gospel and the loony tunes overreaching and illusory, collective madness of the 19990s up to about 2005.
What ever happened to humility? To persistence? To modest habits?
The Prosperity Gospel absolutely helped fuel overbuilt subdivisions, overly expensive autos, and a host of other social and environmental ills. No doubt about it in my mind -- I watched it in my region and one of biggest problems, IMHO, was that it made people so self-assured, insolent, and aggressive about committing socially irresponsible acts on a huge scale.
I can't even stand to think how many times I saw people use this sole criteria for big, important decisions: "does it make money FOR ME? Right now?" If it did, then their interpretation of the Prosperity Gospel gave them a moralistic, aggressive assurance that they were doing the right thing and to hell with anyone like me who tried to question the long term social implications of their actions.
I have to believe this also played in to Enron's lunacy.
This is a really important topic and it gets too little attention.
You need to get Bible Girl's take on this. By the way, how is Ms. Lyons?
Out of curiosity I have forced myself to watch a couple of these Prosperity Gospel preachers do their thing. I've only seen a total of about 2 hour's worth of such talks, so I can't claim to be an expert. But the thing I found most curious was the complete and utter divide between the abject poverty, suffering and humility of Jesus and his apostles on the one hand, and the fact that the message is that Jesus will make you wealthy if you give money to these preachers.
If the prosperity gospel is true, why is it that all the prophets, the apostles and the early church (which I assume are the only sources of divine revelation accepted as authoritative) were all constantly persecuted, impoverished and martyred? Why didn't Jesus and his apostles live as the most outrageously wealthy and prosperous persons ever?
Do they ever explain this seeming contradiction?
In any case, if it is true that this delusional thinking have led poor people to be even more exploited than they otherwise might have been, I wouldn't want to be in the preacher's shoes when he's called home. "For no man can pay a ransom for his life".
Rod,
Glad to see that even though an approach to prayer maybe be somewhat common/mainstream, you feel that it can still be criticized. That it's beyond the defense of "Oh, that's just how some people pray."
Maybe now you can understand how people would be concerned with someone who prays for a pipeline, or prays soldiers in an unjust war are doing "God's will".
I've chanted Nam-myoho-renge-kyo as a member of the Soka Gakkai. I've read SCIENCE OF MIND by Ernest Holmes and THE SECRET. I think these are all useful tools for living in our world of relativity. Chanting in particular for my desires helped me obtain employment and get my beautiful loving wife.
I also think that the above mentioned practices can dangerously parallel Prosperity Gospel in a negative sense. I dated a fellow Buddhist Soka Gakkai member in '05 who was an overextended mortgage broker. It was really tragic.
I grew up Evangelical and have seen good folks utilize Prosperity Gospel principles to set goals and achieve them. Either the goals were realistic, or my friends understood the real means to achieve goals.
It's rare that I defend something like the Prosperity Gospel; but I realized in my mid 20s the Biblical notion that 'the righteous will live by faith'. However, like the 20th Century Existentialist Lutheran Theologian, Paul Tillich said (I'm gonna paraphrase), "Doubt is an essential component of faith. Otherwise you know something to be true, which isn't faith; or, you're deluded."
In my mind if we wanna point blame, most of us can look in the mirror. Look at our carbon footprint on the planet; think about how the polar caps are melting; and think of the instant gratification our cars give us. It's not just Prosperity Gospel followers or rich Republicans... It's pretty much all of us.
Thanks, Rod for the link to the post on the Crouches. I thought I would take this opportunity to share my "Crouch-siting" story:
Eight years ago, I took my wife to The Mansion on Turtle Creek for our 2nd anniversary. The Mansion is arguably Dallas' best hotel/restaurant, and it is certainly one of the most expensive in town - especially 8 years ago. At dinner, I excused myself to go to the restroom, and on the way peeked inside a private room off of the restaurant. I counted at least 25 people in the room, and the gathering appeared to be hosted by Paul and Jan Crouch. Benny Hinn and his handlers were also there along with a full seated dinner and drinks galore. I have no problem with people spending money on fine dinners and booze, but it didn't sit well with me to think that the Crouches were hosting a "business dinner" with Hinn and his cronies. Not sure who paid the tab, but I'll go out on a limb and speculate that Aunt Harriet's disability check helped out a bit.
What a bunch of dirtbags.
Thanks for posting this. I think the New Age prosperity gospel, i.e. The Secret, etc. also has the possibility of leading to irresponsible behaviour. I actually attended a meeting of a group of followers and listened to a woman go on about her success:
She had no job but had financed a townhome with a no-doc loan, had traded in her perfectly serviceable paid-for mini-van for a vehicle more suited to what she deserved and desired (apparently those two words mean the same thing). The kicker is that she got money back on the minivan and is financing the brand-new car. She used some of the money to buy brand-new furniture of the style she really wants for her new home.
She was congratulated for her success at visualizing and receiving. I do wonder how it all played out but it sounded horribly irresponsible to me. Yet the whole crowd was praising her. I felt like maybe I was the one who was crazy. The friend who dragged me there is obsessed with this book that actually suggests that we should not be paying attention to how much is in our checking accounts because if we just visualize success and follow some other "spiritual" practices to get our "energy" right there will always be plenty of $$. SCARY!
Of course I do know that people use The Secret stuff to goal set and motivate themselves to acheive their goals in a real way as well.
Andrea
Rod,
As I posted earlier, someone needs to ask Sarah Palin her view of the prosperity doctrine. She was a member or attended a Pentecostal church that may have preached prosperity. This doctrine, if believed and practiced, would have policy implications.
Verbesser
The "prosperity gospel" is more despicable for perverting Christianity to enrich a few greedy people. The "Secret"/"positive thinking" crowd has been around for a long time and has the same motivation in greed. New Age" and "spiritual" authors and speakers repackage the same junk, cause the same damage, in a different set of people. There must be a special hell for these people.
"The foul, vomitous, from-the-pit-of-hell Prosperity Gospel..."
You said it, Rod. I couldn't agree more.
Does anyone actually READ the Bible? Where does Christ promise you an easy time, or to make you rich? People! You're supposed to read it, not just carry it! Imprint it upon your heart!
Repeat after me: the plural of anecdotes is not data.
While I share folks' disdain for the "prosperity gospel" and can imagine some benighted pastors and their flocks behaving in this manner, to say that this heresy "played a role" in the sub-prime meltdown is a big stretch.
The financial crisis has provided lots of folks with the opportunity of a lifetime to pound other folks for their supposed failings in the financial arena, even if these failings has little, if anything, to do with the crisis.
Do yourselves and the rest of us a favor and read "The Two-Income Trap" before you presume to cast stones. Facts don't always conform to our narratives.
I was in the same room with, less than two feet away from, in fact, with the author of The Secret last year. I suppose she wasn't choosing to materialize me in her universe, because when she spied someone she wanted to see at the other side of the room, she shouted so loud directly into my ear that I couldn't hear for a minute or two. Prosperity gospel, wishcraft, The Secret, all exercises in in narcissism.
But Joe Sixpak Pentecostal wants to own a house he can't afford, and you're referrin' to the Bible and how it says that believers are not guaranteed material prosperity. What are ya, some kind of Bible Elite? Better start listenin' to Main Street, not Westminster Street (or Augsburg Street etc), you betcha.
It is true that Ken Lay (Enron) was one of its adherents of the prosperity gospel, but there are a hundred different ways that individuals justify their greed and distain for others. The prosperity gospel is just one of them.
That being said, I can't help but get a little nauseous when I here prosperity gospel preaching or see ads for things like luxury Christian apartments.
Does anyone actually READ the Bible? Where does Christ promise you an easy time, or to make you rich? People! You're supposed to read it, not just carry it! Imprint it upon your heart! - Posted by: Billiam | October 3, 2008 4:56 PM
But YWHW promises the Jews wealth and health and prosperity if they keep His commandments, doesn't He?
Like Father, like Son...?
"But YWHW promises the Jews wealth and health and prosperity if they keep His commandments, doesn't He?"
Though He slay me, will I trust Him.
Does anyone actually READ the Bible? Where does Christ promise you an easy time, or to make you rich? People! You're supposed to read it, not just carry it! Imprint it upon your heart!
One of the things that has really surprised me about teaching at Baylor is the fact that so many of the students, generally raised in churchgoing Baptist households, really know very little of the Bible. I discovered this when teaching Greek, when I gave them some passages from the Gospels, of all things, that I though would be easy for them because I assumed that they would be familiar with them (such as the calling of Andrew, Peter, and John). But most of them know only some major episodes ("Sunday school stories," as one student called them), or what a colleague of mine calls "proof texts" ("The wages of sin is death", etc.).
Does anyone actually READ the Bible? - Posted by: Billiam | October 3, 2008 4:56 PM
Well, I'm reading the Torah in an English/Hebrew diglot with commentary (Richard Elliott Friedman's). Taken on its own terms, the Hebrew Scriptures present a YHWH who is like what was said about Aslan in chapter 17 ("The Hunting of the White Stag") of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe: "He'll often drop in. Only you mustn't press him. He's wild, you know. Not like a tame lion."
Don't impose your theology or filter on the Bible. Read it as it is, and let it speak to you; don't tell it what it says.
I can't say I'm much of a Christian, if any kind of Christian at all, but the whole concept of the Prosperity Gospel disgusts me.
While the Roman Catholic Church that educated me from kindergarten through 12th grade didn't stay with me as a faith (sorry mom and dad, so much good money gone to waste), I have nothing but respect for the brothers and nuns who taught me, and who were people of grace and dignity who would be appalled by the idea that God was primarily interested in how well his followers did in the material acquisition department. The Prosperity Gospel is an abomination in the face of decent Christianity, and is a rejection of the thoughtful analysis of generations of Christian thinkers who saw that getting a nice Lexus (or ox cart) wasn't the be-all and and-all of evidence of God's grace. That theology is worthy of nothing but contempt, from atheistic or theistic thinkers.
Well… hate to disturb your prejudices with any facts but one of the biggest prosperity preachers is Ken Copeland and he teaches that Christians shouldn't get into debt not even to buy a house.
And it might help your argument if you actually had some statistics indicating that people who attend prosperity churches were more likely to not pay their home loans than people who attend catholic or other churches of the same socio-economic strata.
Your failure to actually produce any evidence to support your position seems remarkably similar to anti-Catholics attempts to blame the Catholic child molestation scandal on vows of celibacy. At the time I believe you and certainly other Catholics insisted that the incidence of child molestation was no greater among catholic priests than among minsters of other denominations. That seemed like a pretty rational argument at the time. But you apparently only object to other men's bigotry not your own.
So unless you actually have some evidence that the incidence of default on sub-prime loans was greater among those who attend prosperity churches then I think it's safe to say you are letting your admitted bigotry overcome your reason.
Is calumny a sin in the Catholic Church? Well just go pray three Hail Marys and two our fathers and forget about the damage your bigotry has done to others and thus demonstrate for us the the fruit of your style of Christianity.
Greg Marquez
A prosperity preacher
goyomarquez@earthlink.net
From my observations--not personal participation--I would say there are (at least) two different forms of "prosperity" preaching. One form I detest without question--that is the pyramid-scheme version, where "faith" has to be demonstrated by giving the teachers all your money. But there is another version, which focuses on personal vision, determination and empowerment. It's hard to see how that really differs from teachings in more mainstream churches.
In fairness, it must also be admitted that the opulent and amazing cathedrals, palaces, and artworks that form the ecclesial treasures of the historic Catholic and Byzantine churches were built, ultimately, from the pennies of the poor. If the poor did not contribute directly and voluntarily, they did so indirectly or under compulsion, via taxation and exploitation. Rich men grew rich on the backs of the poor, then offered some of their gains to the church. So what's the difference between Paul Crouch's mansion and Castelgandolfo? I guess that's partly a matter of taste, good or bad. Probably Crouch doesn't have his own private observatory, but hey . . . plus ca change . . . .
What good would a house do a Christian? Christians are called upon to divest themselves of all worldly goods, houses included. Whatever these Prosperity Gospels teach, it is no form of Christianity.
We must understand that pentecostalism is a fringe cult. It is not a part of the mainstream reformation tradition and obviously is not Orthodox or Catholic. It based on the ability of delusional self-proclaimed prophets to manipulate the uneducated, emotional and down on their luck folks. This alone is reason to vote against the McCain/Palin ticket. I just can't bring myself to put a delusional cultist within a heartbeat of the presidency.
Perhaps it escaped your notice, Joe, that Sarah Palin is not uneducated, emotional, and down on her luck, and --- even more to the point --- is not Pentecostal? Details...
We must understand that pentecostalism is a fringe cult. It is not a part of the mainstream reformation tradition and obviously is not Orthodox or Catholic. It based on the ability of delusional self-proclaimed prophets to manipulate the uneducated, emotional and down on their luck folks. This alone is reason to vote against the McCain/Palin ticket. I just can't bring myself to put a delusional cultist within a heartbeat of the presidency. - Posted by: Joe | October 4, 2008 7:12 PM
A "fringe cult" that just happens to be the largest and fastest-growing subgroup or stream of Christians in the world. There are Pentecostal Roman Catholics, FYI, and I know of an Eastern Orthodox priest from a charismatic background who with his bishop's knowledge and blessing continues to pray daily in tongues and meet with other charismatics. If I recall correctly, a certain Paul of Tarsus engaged in "Pentecostal" practices. You paint too broad a brush with your smear of Pentecostalism - which is not the same thing as specific churches that call themselves "Pentecostal" (e.g., Apostolic Churches which are modalistic in their doctrine of the Godhead).
I figure it's only a matter of time until we learn one of the Prosperity Gospel preachers was getting kickbacks from a sleazy mortgage broker.
After all, if such a deal became available for a preacher, it must be the Lord's blessing, right?
"Perhaps it escaped your notice, Joe, that Sarah Palin is not uneducated, emotional, and down on her luck, and --- even more to the point --- is not Pentecostal? "
Maybe not, but she accepted a blessing from a man who led the persecution a woman for "witchcraft" simply because she lived next to an intersection where traffic accidents were common.
The poor woman's lucky he didn't get her killed. The fool will probably kill someone (possibly children, who are often accused of witchcraft in Africa) in his efforts to gain wealth and power.
Not everything an Orthodox Bishop does is right. The charismatic movement has its roots in heretical theology and spirituality and so has nothing to do with Orthodox spirituality. If there is a "charismatic movement" in the Orthodox Church, then it exists only because some Bishops are not enforcing Orthodoxy. And yes it is the fastest growing version of Christianity right now in the world and Islam is also supposedly the fastest growing religion. Satan has many ways of spreading error.
Sarah Palin has been a member of a pentecostal church for years and has had an African Pentecostal exorcist pray over her. She is also a young earth creationist that believes that dinosaurs and humans walked the earth together and while she is not dumb, she clearly has no intellectual curiosity and, in fact, is proud of that. There are certainly some educated and intelligent people in pentecostal churches, but that's not the preacher's bread and butter, especially in prosperity Gospel churches.
Hey Joe, said now
Where you gonna run to now?
Where you gonna run to?
Hey Joe, I said where you gonna run to now?
Where you, where you gonna go?
Well, dig it
Let's see.
Rev. Oral Roberts
Rev. Jerry Falwell
Rev. Jim Bakker
Rev. Jimmy Swaggart
Rev. Pat Robertson
Now, the Pentecostal preachers in Texas.
See any patterns here, kids?
Just further proof that Born-Agains remain the single-easiest group from which to take money in America.
Never met a Born Again with an ounce of common sense. Never will. If Born Agains had common sense, they wouldn't be Born Agains.
Do be sure, Born Agains, to tithe generously to the preacher/con man of your choice this weekend. With the market in a decline, the Reverend needs your money more than you do.
Chumps.
Let's see.
Rev. Oral Roberts
Rev. Jerry Falwell
Rev. Jim Bakker
Rev. Jimmy Swaggart
Rev. Pat Robertson
Now, the Pentecostal preachers in Texas.
See any patterns here, kids?
Just further proof that Born-Agains remain the single-easiest group from which to take money in America.
Never met a Born Again with an ounce of common sense. Never will. If Born Agains had common sense, they wouldn't be Born Agains.
Do be sure, Born Agains, to tithe generously to the preacher/con man of your choice this weekend. With the market in a decline, the Reverend needs your money more than you do.
Chumps.
You may be right, Mark, but I believe even Celsus mocked the Christians of his day for being gullible and letting people take their money, etc.
the idea that only 'poor' people are represented in the Prosperity gospel crowd is one that i do not think can be substantiated statistically. My former landlord and my current landlord are both multimillionaires .. and they both belong to the Prosperity Gospel believer group. And, not surprisingly, both of them bought into the spiel of predatory lenders .... one of them was nearly brought down as a result of the resulting financial transaction she bought into; the other one is barely treading water.
You may be right, Mark, but I believe even Celsus mocked the Christians of his day for being gullible and letting people take their money, etc.
Posted by: EricW | October 5, 2008 11:43 AM
EricW,
Celsus never had to deal with televangelists. He just had to worry about the second-century Greeks.
My point, Mark, was the gullibility of Christians, no matter which century.
It's very refreshing to hear a Christian conservative denounce the prosperity gospel. It's completely unbiblical - the Gospel, if anything, is downright hostile to the wealthy. "Woe to you who are rich, for you have already recieved your comfort," (Luke 6:24) among others. A doctrine that outright endorses greed and materialism is contrary to every principle of true Christianity.
If the Prosperity Gospel could be widely discredited, then perhaps whatever pain America has coming because of our greed and profligacy might be redeemed.
I agree.
You may be right, Mark, but I believe even Celsus mocked the Christians of his day for being gullible and letting people take their money, etc.
There's a wide difference between being unstintingly generous and being duped. Christ said to "give to anyone who asks of you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you". If that gets in the way of worldly progress, so be it.
Buying into the idea of living well beyond your means in order to accumulate more possessions is a different thing entirely.
I was talking to my brother, who's currently studying to be Christian counseler, when this Reverend Wright nonsense first showed up.
We basically came to the same idea at once (Which is somewhat amazing, as we often do not agree on religion or politics) that 'Black Liberation Theology', while somewhat unChristian, is probably a good deal less harmful than the 'Prosperity Gospel' nonsense going around. (As we'd just been talking about that other day, also one of the few rare things we agree on about Christianity.)
Yes, it's a distortion of Christianity, but, honestly, all denominations and even individuals have a 'distorted' view, because no one is perfect. It creates a divide where their should not be one, but the real horrible secret that white Christians don't want to face is that the divide, honestly, already exists, no matter how much we want to ignore it.
But the 'Prosperity Gospel'...oh, wow. I'm actively trying not to hate the people who promote that crap. That not only damages the true gospel, it damages both people when it fails, and their faith in God.
Whoops, did NOT mean to post that three times. Sorry!
Posted by: Katherine | October 5, 2008 6:02 PM
Kathy,
No sweat. And no doubt you're just doing what Rev. Joel told you to do when you got home from services today.
Mark Said: "Just further proof that Born-Agains remain the single easiest group from which to take money in America. Never met a Born Again with an ounce of common sense. Never will. If Born Agains had common sense, they wouldn't be Born Agains.
Katherin Said: "It's very refreshing to hear a Christian conservative denounce the prosperity gospel. It's completely unbiblical - the Gospel, if anything, is downright hostile to the wealthy. "Woe to you who are rich, for you have already recieved your comfort," (Luke 6:24) among others. A doctrine that outright endorses greed and materialism is contrary to every principle of true Christianity."
You all need to check out wwww.citybusinesschurch.org/blog. Here you will find an entire underground movement of born-again, conservative Christians who are anti-prosperity and ready for a change. God is starting a new reformation in the American church and it's time we all got on board and fought back against these false prophets and false teachers that the bible warned us about.
I would advise sincere christians to read the book
by Jesse Penne Lewis "War On the Saints" the unabriged version and you would understand a bit more about what is going on in the End times
I don't think that God is against us having money & material things, He just doesn't want those things to have us. For the LOVE of money is the root of all evil; w/ that said, I think that these modern day charlatans' distorted view of prosperity is what has everybody sour about prosperity, and when you think about it, if salvation is all-inclusive, then prosperity couldn't just be money in exclusivity. But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness; and all of these things shall be added unto you (Matthew 6:33). All these things would have to include money, but the FOCUS should be on seeking God, not the money that we think we'll receive by planting. We don't see monetary prosperity often, because most of us want to consume it w/ our own lusts, instead helping the less fortunate. If we had the mindset of "If I have 2 billion dollars in my possession, I'm not going to buy a 200 dollar used car w/out consulting God first", God wouldn't mind blessing us at all. Look at all of those in the bible that had riches: Abraham, David, Solomon, Joseph. All were excellent stewards money wise & none of them were greedy. Solomon had one of the richest cultures that the world has seen, but he was NOT STINGY w/ what God had blessed him with. The problem w/ the prosperity gospel is that it focuses on planting & harvesting more than it does the One that gives the increase. It bypasses God & focuses more on the money bringing the blessing. I could go on, but I'll reiterate the fact that God isn't against us having money. He's just a jealous God (Exodus 34:14) who won't have ANYTHING or ANYBODY before Him.
The Prosperity Gospel is a fact. The modern church prosperity gospel is the lie. The modern church likes to teach give or sow money and get a return. In other words your works will bring you prosperity. Wrong, the Bible clearly teaches that God owes you money because we have a Blood Covenant. It's because of Jesus that we have the right and privilege to enjoy that truth.
God has committed himself to prosper and heal you extravagantly. The only reason why true believers don't enjoy this truth is because of a lack of faith. Rather than believe what God has demonstrated and said in His word, believers have except the lie promoted by the religious hypocrites. Those hypocrites who would twist and pervert common sense and invent new definitions for words so that they can push their perverted and demonic views of what God has said in His word.
Anyone who would stand against the fact that God wants you prosperous and healed is despicable. Such a people are a disgrace and not worthy to be called a Christian. God is a God of covenants and prosperity and health was in the Old Covenant. How much more would it then be in the New Covenant. In the Old Covenant you enjoyed prosperity and healing based on how good you where. In the New Covenant you enjoy prosperity and health based on what Jesus did.
When you go to work for someone, you do so to earn money, but is that the only reason. In other words do you go to work to get cash and than just display it all on your coffee table or some other furniture - No. You got to work to be able to afford a place to live, food, clothing, transportation, etc. Likewise, real salvation is not just about going to heaven, it is not singular. Salvation is plural in that salvation in Jesus is more than just about heaven, it is also about health, prosperity and protection.
The Lord Jesus rebukes you, you hypocrites.
If we were sold out to Christ, we wouldn't even be concerned with or interested in material wealth, but would count all things rubbish, but Christ. Our preoccupation with material blessing shows our lack of Christ. Everything that we would purchase, we would do for the service of the Lord. Everything we would forego, we would disallow, for the funds to be used for much higher purposes. Let the rich say I am poor, let the poor say I am rich, because of what the Lord has done. Let Christ be our all in all. If God chastens our for our greed, it is so that we will come to know something of far greater value and satisfaction: Him and the joy and suffering of living for Him.
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