What if McCain wins after all?

They will be so angry and disappointed that it will be very, very hard for President McCain to get anything done.

Well, he'll get his amnesty.

" it will be very, very hard for President McCain to get anything done."

I think McCain could work with an expanded congressional majority on a lot of things: The Bush tax cuts would expire, some form of "comprehensive immigration reform" would be passed, possibly some action on CO2 regulation, etc.

Rod -

I'd do exactly what I did in 2000.

I'll go to work every day.
I'll keep being a good person.
I'll read, write, and exercise.
I'll pay my taxes.
I'll go to Hawaii every year, and visit Ireland, Spain, and Greece (next on my list) during the first term.
I'll be the best friend, husband, uncle, brother, son, employee I can be every day.
I'll look after my mother.
I'll enjoy every day with my pets.

In other words: I'll keep doing what I do every day... AND... will support President McCain on those issues with which I agree with him, and fight him on those issues which which I disagree with him.

Just like 2000.

It will be the biggest catastrophe in the last 100 years if Sarah Palin gets within striking range of the White House. God forbid that McCain should die in office, she would sink this country in 2 years or less...maybe lead us into a war with Russia so Jesus will come back.

It depends on what form the McCain win takes. If it smacks of the fiasco in Florida from 2000, or the ordeal from Ohio in 2004, I would expect a huge amount of anger to be vented long and loud.

However, if McCain wins without the credible hint of scandal, I imagine the anger would clear up by this time next year and you would see a focus on the more important issue...how to survive the depression of 2009.

I am one who believes the race is not as close as the polls show it. Cell phones have penetrated much further than in 2000, and even 2004, especially with the younger people. And I see the younger people more mobilized than ever before. I think it will result in a higher turnout for the 18-25 age bracket, and it will break strongly for Obama.

14% for Obama...maybe not, but I expect it will be closer to 10%.

I have often wondered the same thing, Rod. It seems to me that if Obama loses, the tone of the liberal pundits (especially Olbermann and Matthews) will go from sneering and antagonistic to absolutely poisonous. With such public figures fomenting rage and exacerbating the sense of "we've been ripped off, again," I truly fear there might be riots in the street. The Right is braced to lose, and in many ways, believes it deserves to lose. And at the end of the day, the Right just doesn't truck in the same sort of deep-seated anger and hatred you hear spewing forth from Olbermann & Co. on a nightly basis. (Yes, I've heard O'Reilly, Hannity, et. al. They bluster, but it's not the same.) If McCain loses, they'll lick their wounds and, hopefully, regroup and redefine. It's expected, and probably necessary and healthy. The Left, on the other hand, has been nursing a sense of superiority... well, always... and a sense of entitlement ever since Bush "stole" the election in 2000. Honestly, it scares me to imagine what might happen if their expectations are dashed.

By the way, the above was my first post. Hello everyone! I've long admired the discussions here and am glad to join in once in a while.

The Drudge reference is probably to the Gallup poll found here:

http://pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm#Gallup

Gallup is running two polls. Rather than trying to stumble through an explanation for you, I'll turn it over to the guys from fivethirtyeight.com:

"There is a little bit of tracking poll housekeeping, however. Gallup is now listing likely voter results in addition to registered voter results. Our policy since the first debate has been to use the likely voter model when we have the choice, and so that's what we will do from here forward. However, Gallup provides two separate likely voter models: "Likely Voters I", which favors Obama by 7 points, is based on "current voting intentions and past voting behavior"; "Likely Voters II", which goes to Obama by 10, is based on "current voting intentions" only.

I understand that Gallup wants to cover its butt; this is a difficult election to evaluate. With that said, I'd wish they'd tell me which of their likely voter models they think is superior and stick with it.

If they're going to ask me to make a choice, then I'm going to go ahead and make one, and that is with the "Likely Voters II" model, as "Likely Voters I" would seem to entirely strip out the registration gains that Obama and the Democrats have made over the past four years. In addition, the fact that there is a massive Democratic advantage in enthusiasm makes me skeptical of any likely voter model that cuts 3 points out of the Democratic margin. Because of the way that our model handles national polls, neither decision actually advantages Obama or McCain any, but I do think that "Likely Voters II" is liable to be a more accurate reflection of the electorate."

If this country gives up on such a great, dynamic candidate because of the near racist fear-mongering and scare tactics on the right, I would find it very demoralizing and depressing.

I find it demoralizing and depressing that someone thinks "near racist fear-mongering and scare tactics" are the only reason someone might not vote for Obama. *I* am not voting for Obama because of his pro-abortion stances.

And no, I'm not voting for McCain either. I guess I'm already demoralized and depressed. ;)

I can't believe how many people really think the person in the Oval office has any affect on their life. It sad that anyone would give another person whom they will never meet that much power to determine their feelings. Grow up.

I haven't followed the campaign very closely, and I haven't watched any of the debates, but from what I've read about McCain (see e.g. the short profile in Michael Lewis's book about the Dole campaign) he has strong ties in the Democratic party (to e.g. the Udall family) going back to his early years in politics, and of course his relationship to Joe Lieberman (is this a good thing? I'm not sure), so under normal circumstances he'd have a good chance of putting together a coalition government.

These, though, aren't normal circumstances.

If a McCain win could be tracked to Palin's racist rallies and McCain's smears, I would feel very upset and depressed that such a hateful tactic could undermine Obama, who I feel is a sincere, genuine and intelligent candidate. If McCain were to win on the merits (not possible at this point), then I would feel upset, but not nearly as much as otherwise.

As it stands, McCain seems almost certain to lose, but he seems to want to lose his integrity as well, along with sowing as much discord as possible, with the ridiculous, hyperbolic accusations about Acorn and Ayers -- he seems like a petulant, spoiled bully, who is upsetting the game board because it's not going his way. Or more to the point, he's taking his ball and going home. Sad.

Roger,

Boo hoo, McCain is so mean. Now that its your ox being gored, he's a bully instead of a maverick. When president Obama is elected I'll start working on my photoshops making him look like a chimp. It's only fair right?

OK, Rod...here is a nightmare scenario for you to consider. It's election night and the race is close...very close, just like 2000 and 2004. It goes until early the next morning before it is finally called, for Obama.

The GOP immediately challenges the election results in Ohio and Missouri, which both went narrowly for Obama, contending that the evidence of voter registration fraud is sufficient grounds to challenge the election results. The courts in Ohio toss the claim, but Missouri agrees with the GOP and calls for an audit of every precinct.

In early January the audit continues to grind on, and with the new Congress about to open session (with 59 Dems in the Senate and a much large Democratic majority in the House), the Obama campaign takes the case to the federal courts, citing the Bush-Gore ruling as precedent. Their claim, that the continued counting of votes in Missouri, with the divergent results and non-standard methodologies (some counties using computer records, others using people on foot) do not protect the rights of all voters there, and that the process undermines the credibility of an Obama Presidency.

The Supreme Court ignores precedent and refuses to hear the case.

Congress convenes and the first order of business is to certify the votes of the Electoral College in joint session. All it takes is 1 House member and 1 Senator to challenge the vote of any state, and Missouri's is challenged by a GOP Senator and a GOP Represenative. The Democrat dominated Congress votes to certify the electors of Missouri as if Obama had won. Since it is a joint session the GOP cannot filibuster.

At this point the GOP decides to challenge EVERY state remaining that supported Obama. Each time the vote is the same...the Democrats certify the electors, and Obama is elected President.

How would that play out in GOP land?

Add to that this: In late March the State Supreme Court in Missouri hands down it's ruling supporting the finding of the State's election official that there were X number of fraudulent ballots cast, mostly in minority dominated precincts, and that in adjusting the vote count to remove these fraudulent ballots McCain now wins the state.

Would we see riots from Republicans? Would there be an impeachment attempted?

Far fetched? Hardly, given the current atmosphere.

I had a very difficult time with both Bush elections because he did not respect (or even really know about) the Constitution. I felt his policy of pre-emptive war was disastrous. Our "revised" torture policy is a shame on a country I love. I feel real shame to have not been able to prevent it.

For most of this election I have been an Obama supporter who has been nonetheless relieved that should McCain win, at least there would be an intelligent man at the helm who had a long career of actually giving a damn about things. The last few months leave me less sure. His choice of Sarah Palin for vice-president has me severely rattled. She clearly knows very very little about things that seem pretty important for a president to know. She seems to take that reputation as a positive thing. I am very very worried.

Should McCain get elected, I would pray daily for his health. I would hope that Palin would be impeached or resign (I kind of suspect the Republicans of secretly planning to shove her out the back door as soon as she gets them in the front door).

I would continue to read both left and right blogs in an attempt to avoid the idiocy of thinking that people with different political views are evil. I would avoid cable news of all stripes, sticking with The Newshour, The Economist, and Democracy Now, as I have for over ten years now. I would -- as I do now, with varying degrees of success -- struggle to speak temperately. I would try to maintain faith that people on the right are also committed to looking for the best in their political opponents, looking for common ground with all Americans.

I think it would be delicious if McCain won! I would love to see the reaction!

BrianF
October 16, 2008 7:04 PM
When president Obama is elected I'll start working on my photoshops making him look like a chimp. It's only fair right?

It's a free country, knock yourself out.

Rod, thanks for inviting the Obama supporters to comment. It has been nothing if not eye-opening to read the comments from these people, much of it which I find pretty weird ... and sad.

Reaganite...what if the scenario I suggest were to happen. Would you expect a similar "wierd and sad" reaction from McCain supporters? Or do you imagine that the McCain crowd would bring a more reasoned, less emotional reaction to bear?

I don't think it would bother me too much. I like John McCain, but Sarah Palin is a nutjob who has no business running for VP.
The good thing about McCain is he isn't one of those radical right fanantics. I think he realizes that people hate Bush and what his administration has done. But Palin reminds me of Cheney; abusing her power, secretive, not answering questions (she has yet to answer any from what I've seen) and her love of guns and killing are all too similar to Cheney.
Anyone who thinks that God wanted us to start a war for no concrete reason and who kills God's beautiful creatures to get her jollies and not for food is a sicko in my book.
Also if McCain gets in, will he stop catering to and protecting the rich and the large corporations who are destroying our nation as we speak?
My main concern of both candidates is this: Who will stop the price gouging of the health insurance companies? Their greed is killing us.

I tend to agree with Bill and some of the others who have posted that they would simply keep on keeping on, and wait until 2012. What else is there to do? Rioting in the streets would not change a thing, and unless you are talking an open, balls-to-the-wall revolution it would simply end with a bunch of folks dead and a bunch more in jail.

I also agree with DonF. The reaction depends on how the victory played out. If it looked like the election was rigged or if the courts intervened again to short-circuit ballot counting, there would be a lot more anger than if it simply turned out that Obama lost, narrowly, in a couple of key states.

Rod asked: "How will you react? How will you feel? How will you feel towards McCain and his voters? I'm not asking to be polemical; I really want to know."

Pretty much the way I felt in 1984 when Mondale lost . . . and in '72 when McGovern lost . . . and in '80 when Carter lost . . . and in '88 when Dukakis lost . . . and in 2000 when Gore won, then lost . . . and in '04 when Kerry lost.

Pretty much the way I hope most McCain supporters will feel on November. Worse things could happen. After all, the Republic survived Buchanan, until recently the unquestioned worst president in US history.

"Your Name" responding at 7:59 PM to Marc M was actually me. Forget to update the upper left field before pressing "Post."

I'll have both TV's going on election night and the following days just to watch the pundits on CNN and MSNBC.

2009-2012 are going to be disastrous for either president. WSJ reported just yesterday that many retailers are waiting until January (after the seasonal cash infusion, however small it may be) to file for bankruptcy. It reported today that many companies are drawing on their revolvers (lines of credit, not guns) for quick cash in anticipation of declaring bankruptcy.

God help those banks holding that bag, because the taxpayers can't (or can we?).

"And four years of Mrs. Moosebreath jokes would be great fun."

And Tina Fey would be pretty much guaranteed the Emmy for the next 4 years.

There's more than a slim chance that McCain will win. I'm stocking up on ammo just in case he does. Some Obama supporters have vowed to start a race war if he loses (e.g. google Fatima Ali's column in that Philadelphia paper, among others).

I'm white and liberal. But Obama supporters are on a messianic crusade, and a significant minority are likely to become irrational and violent in the event of a loss.

I am a peaceful person, but I will do whatever I have to to protect my family and myself from these people should the Obamaniacs go on a rampage.

"What happened in Florida in 2000 doesn't fulfill this standard, because although it's widely agreed on the Left that the Supreme Court should not have interrupted the vote-counting and given Florida's electoral votes to Bush, the race was too close for even partisans to expect a victory."

Well, yes and no. Yes, the race was too close for either side to call. But comments early on from the Bush campaign (and from Bush himself) gave the appearance that there was something brewing. Those comments from his hotel suite were played over and over for the next months.

So the anger that developed was definitely in part due to the outcome, but also in large part due to the belief that the process was monkey-wrenched. And should a similar close call happen I think the more radical elements would win out this time, and we would see street rioting much like the race riots of the late 60s.

The economy stinks. We are in a costly and drawn out war. The country is more polarized than ever. And the perception on both sides is that the media has been bought and paid for by the opposition.

In short, there is a perfect storm brewing, and if we see McCain win in a "suspicious" manner, that could well trigger violence on a fairly large scale.

"But can any American support a VP who is not strong enough to go on Meet the Press?"

Apparently so, given Palin's rather high approval ratings among Republicans. The thing is that I really think she is much more capable than what the McCain campaign is letting her show. They really messed up by trying to manage her too closely. Yes, she is inexperienced, but protecting her only kept it in the news longer.

Ah well, McCain hasn't been long on wisdom this time around.

If anyone got 'over' Florida's hanging chads in 2000/2001, anyone can 'get used to' anything. After Dick Cheney, anyone's Palin Comparison. After 8 years of feeling Bushed, President McCain's a piece of (pineapple upside down) cake.

And four years of Mrs. Moosebreath jokes would be great fun.

Except that the joke would be on us.

I am more anti-Republican than pro-Obama. I would be disappointed but life goes on. McCain has positive attributes. If he behaves more like the McCain of 2000, I would actually be quite pleased.

Steve

I would be disappointed and surprised, for sure. However, at this point, an Obama loss would require either a game changer or serious skulduggery. In the former case, my assessment od the situation would be radically altered. In the second case, the Democratic-controlled houses would be under a great deal of pressure to impeach McCain.

However, it's a little moot. Drudge is desperate at this point, and is cherry-picking outlier polls in a desperate bid to make his candidate seem more viable. I've seen Obama supporters do the same thing privately when he was down in the polls. It's a little unbecoming for a major media figure to do it, but oh well, it's Drudge.

I have to give it up for this comment:

"the Right just doesn't truck in the same sort of deep-seated anger and hatred you hear spewing forth from Olbermann & Co. on a nightly basis."

People are calling for Obama to be killed at McCain rallies. Killed. Not privately or jokingly. It. Is. Being. Yelled. In . Public. In. Front. Of. McCain. On top of that, Ann Coulter has been calling people on the left criminals and traitors for years now. Are you so entirely blind? Seriously, there is something wrong with you. Take the blinkers off, the right is coming off to the left and center as rabid hatemongers, and some of you have been for years.

Besides thinking that McCain would be another "W" and continue the disasters we have had for 8 years under the Republicans, the thought that Palin would be a heartbeat away from the presidency is scary. As much as I would like a woman president...finally....Palin isn't my idea of the first one. She thinks she can handle Putin and Russia because she can see the country from her yard!!! So, if this country does indeed elect yet another Republican ...life will go on...but the government will just continue to be screwed up for a lot longer. It will take a long time to get us out of this mess, but having yet another "W" like person will prolong the disaster, IMO.

Actually, given the current situation and how things will probably shape up in the next few years the lucky guy may be the one who "loses" the election and doesn't have to clean up this mess.

Hodge is actually incorrect. The Secret Service has investigated these charges and has found no evidence of people publicly calling for the death of Sen. Obama at McCain rallies. So whoever gets elected on thing is certain, the poisonous rhetoric and falsehoods will probably continue.

For some reason, the headline of this post makes me think of Mary Tyler Moore.

If we all want to become the next Russia and live by our government policies and not be able to individualize and have the american dream, then by all means, go out and vote for the left wing, liberal socialists candidate and god help us all, specially when our enemies are just waiting for the United States to put down our guard, like Obama wants to do...

Everyone should put aside this smooth talker, which is the only thing he has going ror his lack of experience and do the research!

Vote for someone who has experience in office and knows how to lead...

effluvium, I pulled my small amount of investments today and put them in a money market, where at least they won't lose anymore. Already lost enough!

I don't think McCain will win. But if he does, the first thing I'll do when there are no riots, everyone but a few idiots behaves decently, and the nation continues about its business is come over here and say "I told you so" to all the alarmists who are clutching their pearl-handled pistols right now.

"Think Smart" wrote:

"If we all want to become the next Russia and live by our government policies and not be able to individualize and have the american dream, then by all means, go out and vote for the left wing, liberal socialists candidate and god help us all, specially when our enemies are just waiting for the United States to put down our guard, like Obama wants to do..."

And you think Olbermann is angry? This is full-on paranoid ranting.

And yes, you are fully delusional if you think Olbermann has some kind of unique form of political outrage that is only evident on the left. Ever listen to Rush Limbaugh? When my son was 10, he was visiting my parents. He was in the car with my dad, who unfortunately listens to this hateful demagogue. My son called me up, concerned. He said, "Daddy, a man on the radio said the Democrats should be put in concentration camps. Will you be put in a concentration camp?"

Yes, you are fully delusional.

And before anyone gets too excited, the Drudge results today were incorrect -- whether it was an honest mistake or intentionally done to drive a McCain comeback narrative, I don't claim to know. But the site fivethirtyeight.com could not locate the Gallup results Drudge claims to have found. The site currently gives McCain a slightly better than 5 percent chance of winning the electoral vote -- Obama sits at his highest level yet, with a 94.7 percent chance of winning. Obama has a 38 percent chance of a landslide victory; McCain, 0.09 percent. Sorry.

Sorry, I was wrong about the Drudge results not existing. It's just that they are considered the least accurate of their 3 models -- the other 2 of which continue to show the same strong Obama lead.

That Acorn stuff is nonsense. More Republican "voter fraud" mischief, which is really Republican voter suppression -- it's the only way they can win. Do some research. Somewhere other than Fox News. False voter registration does not equal false votes. This is the same right wing high-jinks that was behind the attorneys general firings -- they were fired for not pursuing bogus "voter fraud" cases like this, close to election time. Republicans can't win on the issues, so they gum up the works and try to win by cheating. Karl Rove was behind this stuff, and his proteges still are. That should tell you everything.

Roger, if you think "That ACORN stuff is nonsense", you clearly have not been paying attention.

Here are a couple other than Fox News to get you started. The research is easy:
1) Ohio county seeks fraud investigation of ACORN
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1125393&srvc=2008campaign&position=12

2)Voter-registration group ACORN focus in presidential politics
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/presidentialrace/2008267678_acorn15.html

Last the FBI raided the Nevada offices of ACORN and seized thousands of records, computers etc, due to thousands of fraudulent registrations.

You could also read the new edition of "Stealing Elections" by John Fund.

What makes ACORN particularly embarrassing for Obama is that he used to be one of them. He served as general counsel for ACORN in Illinois, channeled millions to the organization from the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (whose funds he distributed) and has lately spent $800,000 of his campaign money to subsidize the group's activities. For this emolument, ACORN has registered voters 15 times over, canvassed the graveyards for votes and prepared to commit electoral fraud on a massive scale.

I will vote, but I don't have a lot of confidence that my vote will count.

After going on a rampage in my neighborhood with fellow middle-aged firebrands, smashing our elderly neighbors' car windows and setting fire to their pets, I'll make a cup of coffee and go to work.

Sheesh. What kind of question is that?

Tonight on C-Span, at the annual Al Smith Dinner, a fundraiser for Catholic charities, John McCain beat Barack Obama hands down in the comedy department. McCain delivered some really funny lines and I appreciated his humor. I wish he could have been the guy I saw tonight throughout his campaign. Obama wasn't nearly as funny - kind of stiff and serious - way too presidential. Us Joe Six-Packs just can't get comfortable with that. After watching all the fun and games, laughter and hilarity at this high priced "black tie affair" I'm starting to wonder if IT ISN'T ALL JUST A BIG FAT JOKE! (on us)

I'll pray that Palin resigns to spend more time with her family.

As my previous post illustrates I now support Obama. Back in 2000 I supported and gave money to McCain. As an earlier poster has already said, if McCain wins, I will pray daily for his health and well being. Would I be disappointed. Of course. Would I suspect that racism played a part? Yes. Just remember what we've already seen and heard at the Palin rallies. Oh, and BTW, conspiratorial, racist, and xenophobic nonsense has been mainstreamed so much so that I've had to explain to several friends and coworkers that Obama is not a Muslim, but a Christian (a liberal one admittedly). I get daily updates of various email forwards sent out "proving" just about every outlandish theory out there. And "out there' they are. It's like our political discourse has been high-jacked by Lyndon Larouche! To be honest, I'm more concerned for the next 18 days than I am about the days that follow, whoever wins. Hey, at least it won't be Bush/Cheney!

A VERY SAD DAY FOR THE U.S.A. -- THE JEWS--

ABOUT THE SAME AS IF BEN L. WAS IN COMAND.........

I don't think that Obama supporters think that there is nothing at all to concerns about ACORN, AML. However, it seems pretty clear that the problems with the organization come more from poor management, employee choice, and incentives rather than from a conscious attempt to "steal an election." No one even seems to be suggesting that ACORN's activities could lead to even a single case of an illigimate vote being actually cast. The investigations have real merit, but it requires either intense alarmism or partisan bad faith to make ACORN reflect particularly badly on Obama.

Hodge, you said However, it seems pretty clear that the problems with the organization come more from poor management, employee choice, and incentives rather than from a conscious attempt to "steal an election."

ACORN's purpose? Plenty:

False voter registrations provide a ready opportunity for fraudulent absentee ballot voting. You could even use false registrations across multiple states for this. Oregon is all absentee, many other states are partial or all mail-balloting.

If you want to vote false registrations at the polls, it's easy for a political machine. If all the pollworkers at a particular polling place are your committed supporters, they have the power after the polls have closed for the day to cast votes on every unvoted registration in the precinct. Give them an extra hundred fake registrations in their precinct to work with, and you'll get an extra hundred votes.

Send in the troops to demand provisional ballots at hundreds of precincts. There won't be enough forms, so they'll have to give out regular ballots which cannot be checked against the rolls after being voted. It's the law now and has already worked this way.

ACORN’s true intent long-term is to overwhelm and undermine the election system in this country. Where did they learn this? Have you heard of Saul Alinsky and "Rules for Radicals"?

Surely this is a Rhetorical Question, Rod.

We've been through 8 years of Clinton and a Gore and Kerry campaign, and all were dedicated to the proposition that truth, facts, and reality DO NOT MATTER, only power, with the party all but declaring truth a criminal notion.

As you can see, people like Mike F actually believe the vapors they're puffing out. The only way that could have happened, is the mass hysteria started by Clintonism, where truth matters not a shred, only the ability to manipulate by lies and deceit.

It's no secret... In fact, it is horrifyingly obvious that Obama has not even a smidgeon of integrity and that he believes little to nothing of what he says... He's just following the "speak to the focus groups for votes" pattern of the Clinton regime. That's why Clinton, even after two terms out of office is still a campaigner, and why he never stopped, the whole time in office. Should he ever stop campaigning, reality will catch up and his gravy train will turn into a poverty train.

Bush hasn't campaigned since the election... Clinton never stopped. Democrats now believe that "campaigns" are governance, and "obtaining votes" is wise decisionmaking.

So, what's it all boil down to? Well, it's not like if McCain wins and they reconsider their hideous to core leftist radicalism.. Not at all, they just look for slicker ways to hide it and lie about it.

And of course, retribution. Since Gore lost, and got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, trying to get the florida supreme court to ignore the election law in a nakedly absurd effort to steal an election, Democrats have been far more interested in retribution and vengeance than much else.

And they think they have their way paved for them. A smooth talking radical full of pent-up desire for vengeance, retribution, and destroying everyone not in conformance.

So, if McCain wins... just more of the same. But a notch higher, if you can imagine. With firm control of the Congress, no doubt Democrats will at least try to criminalize being a conservative, or perhaps just conservative ideas. Failing that, they might try to retroactively criminalize PAST policies, by declaring such things as Iraq war "criminal".

No doubt they would nearly pass out in orgasmic glee if they could round up Bush, Rove, Cheney, Palin, and every influential Republican and Conservative and have them shot.

Note, this doesn't necessarily extend to the rank and file, but they lost control of the Democrat party aparatus and direction at least 40 years ago. I'm sure someone's going to say I'm being a bit harsh. Not really. We've seen the writing on the wall for a long time. Not even Clinton had the stones to declare the Fannie and Freddie mess a GOP fault, but the party's certainly gung-ho on the idea. That, and the assorted bilgewater draining out of DC should have told us that something had died and turned into a rotting corpse, just by the smell.

As sad as that seems, what will happen should Obama win should scare the living daylights out of anyone who still happens to believe in quaint ideas like individual freedoms and self-determination.

See, the thing is, it's NOT Obama.. He's just a handy enabler. It's a sense of entitlement and divine right the left has come to have. Use law enforcement and elected officials to silence anyone who objects, or says anything they don't like.

Indict, and if possible, jail, anyone who demands the law be followed, re: election law.

Create a new organization whose job it is to "teach, help, enlighten, engage" the public (Obama's own words paraphrased) of a hundred or two hundred thousand "paid" volunteers who "guide" our errant citizens. He's even promised it needs to be as well funded as the military.

Institute speech controls on all media. Can't be having all that messy "unbalanced" criticism out there...

Obama wins - full throttle. Obama not win... Just scaled back efforts, until the next election.

It used to be that organizations thought they could influence our nation's direction by inspiring people to act on an idea. Sometimes those ideas were so powerful they did change the nation. And those ideas stood on their own merit, and could not be trumped by anyone, no matter what.

Today, it's just naked powermongering. And a sense that they have both a moral right and privilege to it.

So how'd we get here? There's plenty of blame to go around on this one... It's mostly the notion that the "elites" are smarter and more capable. Somewhere along the line, a good lot of the people somehow became convinced of the absurd notion that these people make better decsions than we do as individuals. Any rational examination of the output of Congress and other institutions of the "elite" reveals a stunning similarity to a baby... Endless appetite at one end and absolutely no responsibility at the other.

Somehow, somewhere, these people sold themselves as deserving of our ceding decisions to them. NOt that any rational examination of those results has supported that notion, but we've not exactly been blessed with anyone speaking rational, common sense ideas in our political arena for quite some time now.

Despite the fact that these "elites" have burdened us with debt too large to even imagine, that they've managed to "manage" our economy into a possible complete collapse, and that their "fixes" just entail endless repetions of the same stuff that created the fiasco, not a lot of people seem to be catching on that these people are just plain STUPID. Or, as somewhat "down home" friend of mine once observed of a school faculty member known for the most inane and senseless of observations and conversations... "educated beyond their intelligence".

Now, I realize that Rod seems inclined to "admire" the "elites", I just hope that he realizes, and that the rest of us realize that those who have powerful minds with powerful and inspiring ideas don't need bloggers defending them as "we need elites", but that those ideas that are worthy are going to be both understood by us "normal" people and our judgement on the validity is likely to be reasonably accurate. In other words, we're as capable as them.

Now, you don't take your car to the dentist, nor visit the plumber for your bellyache, but it would seem that there actually ARE people who specialize in the abstract ideas and they're decently good at them. Others, specialize in thinking. And that's ok. We need them just as much as we need good mechanics, doctors, teachers, firefighers, and farmers. But they are not "worthy" of being followed unquestionably any more than are the other occupations.

The dunderheads who put their faith in their own superiority have all but brought down the nation. The fact that they do not even recognize their own complicity in this is sufficient reason to consider them idiots, and ignore their demands or ideas.

And expecting them to lead us, run our country, or otherwise "fix" the world is worse than blind faith.

So where's that put me? I'd rather elect 2 Palins to the executive offices, and replace a few hundred members of Congress with "Joe Plumber" types. There is not a chance in hell they could do as badly as those there now have done. There's nowhere to go but up from them.

Or, we could vote for more elites and give them more of our wealth, decisions, and let them influence our thinking even more.

Judge that insanity for yourself.

Remember the joke from the late 80's and early 90's: "The Secret Service are under orders that if President Bush (the First) is assassinated, to shoot Quayle."

Yes, terrible taste, but lighten up.

As a conservative Republican voting for Obama, I will be terribly disappointed if McCain wins. I just don't think he's up to it, and I also think his temper and belligerence could get us into a lot of trouble. But if Palin becomes president, I will be genuinely fearful for our country. I don't doubt that she's talented and has good qualities, but she knows zero about how to run the national government.

When JFKennedy became president, the Soviet Union deliberately took advantage of his immaturity, naivete and inexperience (Cuban Missile Crisis). When Carter was president, the same thing happened (Afghanistan). Now we are up against a resurgent Russia, an up-and-coming China, countries with links to terrorism, and a whole host of unpredictable developments as the U.S.'s power shrinks. Not to mention the economic crisis, the energy crisis, etc.

Palin must not be president, or put in the position where she could become president, under any circumstances.

The outrage would result from the fact that McCain can only win by the thwarting of popular will, or the distortion of it through fear and smear. Name one true thing that has been uttered by the republican ticket in the last few weeks: ONE. So, yeah, that might piss some of us off. Probably encourage some of us to leave.

ACORN is not the victim of some kind of conspiracy. ACORN IS the definition of voter fraud. This is deliberate, calculated, and paid for. They specifically DO, as a matter of their EXISTENCE, commit fraud. Again, remember, they were founded by people who believe that fraud is not only acceptable, but virtue, in pursuit of the agenda.

Obama is perfectly in line with this thinking. There is not a single honest bone in his body.

Nightstalker - we all know that you can't stand Obama (or democrats) & besides that Rod asked people who are voting for Obama to respond. Just so you know I always skip over your long verbose retoric - you've said the same things over & over & over. We get it already.

As for how I would take it? I would really be depressed for about a week or so & get over it. After that I would probably wish that I was a Christian so that I could pray every minute that McCain lives through the four years so that Palin wouldn't become the next president. That scares me even more than a McCain presidency.

I don't wish McCain ill will I just don't think he has what it takes to be a president. He seems even more head strong about things being his way or the highway than W. I want someone who will surround himself with the best & the brightest and be able to listen to them and use their judgement too (and he doesn't seem to surround himself with "yes" men).

And for those of you who want to say "ha ha" if McCain wins - good for you, if it makes you feel good to do that then go for it. I won't do it though if Obama wins because I understand that you also have a lot vested in this campaign.

I'll be very depressed and characterize it as evidence that the U.S. is still a very racist country.

Now, turn about is fair play. How about a thread on how will conservatives respond if Obama wins big.

I think that the Left will howl, and you'll see more articles in Rolling Stone about how McCain stole the election with voting machines, etc. The vitriol from the nuttiest (and most vocal) will be shocklingly bad and unfair.

I think that African-Americans will feel personally defeated at best, you'll certainly hear it from Sharpton, Jackson, etc.

Portland, OR (my hometown) will absolutely erupt. In 2004, Kerry took Multnomah County 73% to Bush's 27%, and a crowd of a few thousand surrounded Pioneer Courthouse Square and Pioneer Place Mall the day after Bush won chanting "No more Christians, no more war". I know. I had to cross the line to get into the mall, where I worked at the time.

I have every reason to believe that Obama will take Multnomah County with more than 80% this time. And if he loses, Portland will become "Little Beirut" again (every time Bush came here, it did anyway). Same with Seattle, Eugene, and San Francisco.

Beyond that, I still think that were McCain to win, he'd get his Presidential honeymoon period, as well. 75% of this country is so sick of Bush that it doesn't matter who replaces him...the "somebody else for President" that most of us are feeling will turn into a honeymoon period, even for McCain.

Nightstalker
If ACORN were just a philanthropic organization, it would have to immediately cease all "election" activities. That's what it would do IF it were not agenda driven political.

It isn't 'just a philanthropic organization'. In fact, it isn't one at all. It's specifically a organization dedicated to political change, at the level of neighborhoods and communities. Heck, it has 'Reform' in the name.

This requires people in those areas to actually vote, so ACORN runs voter registration drives.

ACORN is a political organization to start with. It has no activities besides 'election' ones, or at least political ones. It's not claiming to have any others.

It's no more a philanthropic organization than the NRA is. Pretending that it's claiming to be one and has gone outside its mission is either abject stupidity or total dishonesty.

But it is nothing but a political movement determined to win by fraud.

Asserting things without evidence doesn't make them true.

And in this case, the fraud is considered virtue by those in charge.

Although sometimes asserting things without evidence does make them slander.

It is precisely an organization devoted to the cause of advance a radical leftist agenda - ie, empowering government and advancing dependency on government.

Um...duh? That is not illegal.

ACORN has carefully constructed a system designed to promote fraud among the "working" people in the organization, with "plausible deniability" by the head organizers... if youi don't look closely.

And, again I ask, how should they run a voter registration drive? Exactly what part of their behavior are you criticizing?

Considering the only way McCain could win this thing is via massive Republican engineered voter fraud, I think we would be risking civil war.

With all due respect, those who are blaming this financial debacle on the Republicans -- are you stupid? Bush is no leader -- not my idea of a good president -- the only thing I credit him with is not having another terrorist attack. Since my husband was in the Pentagon on 9/11 and terrorism came close to home, I whence I speak.

Both Republicans and Democrats are corrupt -- no argument about that -- and venal. But this particular scandal was Democrat caused. the Community Reinvestment act, begun under Carter and expanded under Clinton forced banks to make NINJA loans -- No income, NO jobs, NO assets. They knew they were playing with fire -- but Fannie and Freddie -- quasi government agencies used as piggie banks for Desm, bought up the bad loans and traded them -- and made off l ike bandits while the housing prices soared. When things same to a screaming halt -- the financial house of cards collapsed. Christopher Dodd got sweetheart loans and he was amongst those who benefited from the Fannie Freddie scam. Barney Frank kept yelling at Republicans that NO OVERSIGHT WAS NECESSARY -- they tried to get oversight in 2001, 2003, and 2--5 -- I saw the videos my self (taped on CSpan) Frank said as late as this summer, that ALL WAS WELL. His lover was an EXECUTIVE IN FANNIE MAY -- AND HE WAS WRITING THE LAWS. The reason people don't know this is because the media is covering their backsides -- not without a cause. Obama's group, ACORN was amongst those that bullied banks into making this risky loans. He was also the 2ND LARGEST RECIPIENT of Fannie lobby funds, even though he was only a junior senator.

Republicans WERE WIMPS -- THEY kept trying to get oversight and were blocked by the Dems -- BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE TAKEN THIS CASE BEFORE THE PEOPLE. But because they were called "racist" for wanting this oversight, they backed down because they were more afraid of the "r" word than they cared about the American people.

Obama is handsome. Suave. Smooth -- but he cares about one thing only -- OBAMA. Look at his record. Look at how he changed his positions -- and lied -- again and again. He's got the style -- the swagger -- and the "coolness." But we've seen leaders before with charisma -- who can lie smoothly and make out that the other guy is always at fault. We're about to elect an American Idol -- with control issues.

The thought of a civil war could take place because McCain is a racist. He has approved racist comments being robo called to potential voters, he promotes racial out burts from his followers, he uses scare tactics to get people to vote for him. This is his by any means necessary to win. It concerns me that people want unity in america but they promote racism. How are they different from the terrorist over seas? Until there is unity in america, everything that we stand for will fall.