Crunchy Con

Needed: straight talk on gay marriage

Thursday November 6, 2008

Categories: Homosexuality

My friend Virginia Postrel, who was foursquare against Prop 8, argues that what she calls the "hide-the-gays" strategy Prop 8 opponents followed in California hurt their cause. She says it'll be six to eight years before gay marriage is legal in California...

...assuming we make an effort to persuade, or at least desensitize, the public rather than relying on the flim-flam of hiding the gays under the carpet while Dianne Feinstein opines that "no matter what you think about marriage" you should "vote against discrimination." No matter what you think about marriage???? Who the hell came up with that inane line? (The only voters it makes any sense for are the rare birds who think the state should stay out of the "marriage" business and only establish standard civil-union contracts. Not a bad policy--but let's apply it evenly.)

Conventional wisdom maintains that the hide-the-gays strategy was good politics, but a) it insulted voters' intelligence on an issue that was not hard to understand b) it seemed desperate c) it suggested that gay marriage is, in fact, something to be ashamed of instead of an extension of normal family life and, of course, d) it didn't work. The political and cultural reality is that either people think it's OK for gays to get married, or they don't. And if they don't, they think this kind of discrimination is good--and completely different from the bad kind of discrimination. Besides, when you say the issue is "discrimination" and equate traditional limits on marriage to (now-illegal) racist practices, traditionalists can claim, without seeming crazy, the next step will be to outlaw even private, religiously based limits on marriage. Isn't that what we do with discrimination?

I appreciate Virginia's honesty here. As I've said, and will continue to say, I believe gay marriage as the law of the land is an inevitability, given the demographic changes underway, and the loss of the traditional understanding of what marriage is for has all but evaporated in the face of autonomous individualism. Even so, it is simply dishonest to pretend that there is no legitimate reason for traditional-minded people to believe that gay marriage can be accomodated as a matter of constitutional law (as opposed to something granted by statutory act) without having major effects on religious liberty. Gay marriage proponents can stand there and yell "bigotry!" all day long, and that won't change the reality of what traditionalist churches, synagogues, mosques, etc., would face. I regret and deplore -- honestly! -- the abuse some trad-marriage supporters visit upon gay couples, and I want no part of it. But there are real issues at stake here that have nothing to do with bigotry. Read that well-known Maggie Gallagher piece, especially this passage:

Of all the scholars who attended, perhaps the most surprising is Chai Feldblum. She is a Georgetown law professor who is highly sought after on civil rights issues, especially gay civil rights. She has drafted many federal bills to prohibit orientation discrimination and innumerable amicus briefs in constitutional cases seeking equality for gay people. I ask her why she decided to make time for a conference on the impact of same-sex marriage on religious liberty.

"Not because I was caught up in the panic," she laughs. She'd been thinking through the moral implications of nondiscrimination rules in the law, a lonely undertaking for a gay rights advocate. "Gay rights supporters often try to present these laws as purely neutral and having no moral implications. But not all discrimination is bad," Feldblum points out. In employment law, for instance, "we allow discrimination against people who sexually abuse children, and we don't say 'the only question is can they type' even if they can type really quickly."

To get to the point where the law prohibits discrimination, Feldblum says, "there have to be two things: one, a majority of the society believing the characteristic on which the person is being discriminated against is not morally problematic, and, two, enough of a sense of outrage to push past the normal American contract-based approach, where the government doesn't tell you what you can do. There has to be enough outrage to bypass that basic default mode in America. Unlike some of my compatriots in the gay rights movement, I think we advance the cause of gay equality if we make clear there are moral assessments that underlie antidiscrimination laws."

But there was a second reason Feldblum made time for this particular conference. She was raised an Orthodox Jew. She wanted to demonstrate respect for religious people and their concerns, to show that the gay community is not monolithic in this regard.

"It seemed to me the height of disingenuousness, absurdity, and indeed disrespect to tell someone it is okay to 'be' gay, but not necessarily okay to engage in gay sex. What do they think being gay means?" she writes in her Becket paper. "I have the same reaction to courts and legislatures that blithely assume a religious person can easily disengage her religious belief and self-identity from her religious practice and religious behavior. What do they think being religious means?"

To Feldblum the emerging conflicts between free exercise of religion and sexual liberty are real: "When we pass a law that says you may not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, we are burdening those who have an alternative moral assessment of gay men and lesbians." Most of the time, the need to protect the dignity of gay people will justify burdening religious belief, she argues. But that does not make it right to pretend these burdens do not exist in the first place, or that the religious people the law is burdening don't matter.

"You have to stop, think, and justify the burden each time," says Feldblum. She pauses. "Respect doesn't mean that the religious person should prevail in the right to discriminate--it just means demonstrating a respectful awareness of the religious position."

Feldblum believes this sincerely and with passion, and clearly (as she reminds me) against the vast majority of opinion of her own community. And yet when push comes to shove, when religious liberty and sexual liberty conflict, she admits, "I'm having a hard time coming up with any case in which religious liberty should win."

She pauses over cases like the one at Tufts University, one of many current legal battles in which a Christian group is fighting for the right to limit its leaders to people who subscribe to its particular vision of Christianity. She's uncertain about Catholic Charities of Boston, too: "I do not know the details of that case," she told me. "I do believe a state should be permitted to withhold tax exempt status, as in the Bob Jones case, from a group that is clearly contrary to the state's policy. But to go further and say to a group that it is not permitted to engage in a particular type of work, such as adoptions, unless it also does adoptions for gay couples, that's a heavier hand from the state. And I would hope we could have a dialogue about this and not just accusations of bad faith from either side."

But the bottom line for Feldblum is: "Sexual liberty should win in most cases. There can be a conflict between religious liberty and sexual liberty, but in almost all cases the sexual liberty should win because that's the only way that the dignity of gay people can be affirmed in any realistic manner."

I would only add the remarks of same-sex-marriage backer Megan McArdle, who writes:

I do think, though, that the success of anti-gay-marriage initiatives reinforces something I strongly believe: the issue was pressed too quickly, and in the wrong venue. Using the courts to establish a right to gay marriage made opponents feel threatened, and railroaded. If socially conservative voters hadn't felt they needed to protect themselves from activist judges, we wouldn't be seeing these provisions written into state constitutions. Few of them would probably have bothered to vote out legislators who voted for gay marriage five years from now. But with it on the ballot, in front of them, and worries that judges would make the decision unless they did, they shot it down even in California.
Comments
rombald
November 9, 2008 4:10 AM

Celtic Dragon:

In the strict sense, the Northern Crusades were in the 12th to 14th centuries. According to Wikipedia: "The Northern Crusades[1] or Baltic Crusades[2] were crusades undertaken by the Catholic kings of Denmark and Sweden, the German Livonian and Teutonic military orders, and their allies against the pagan peoples of Northern Europe around the southern and eastern shores of the Baltic Sea. "

Lost of other wars were declared to be crusades. The conversion of countries such as England, Germany and Scandinavia was tied up with wars between petty kingdoms, and Christianity provided kings with alliances with more powerful forces elsewhere.

The initial Anglo-Norman invasion of Ireland, in the 12th century, was declared to be a crusade, because the Irish were of suspect orthodoxy. Ironically in view of later history, the invasion was blessed by the pope (or at least I remember reading that somewhere).

celticdragon
November 9, 2008 10:12 AM

Rombald

Cool. That was something I hadn't read about before.

sigaliris
November 9, 2008 12:53 PM

Thanks for the information and recommendations, celticdragon. More things to put on my Christmas list!

I feel a TINY bit guilty for participating in this wholehearted, jovial threadjack, but ehhh . . . not really very much. ; ) The friendly asides and the little swirls of harmony forming within discord are one of my favorite parts of this blog, and I nod in Rod's direction for trying to keep a civil tongue among us so that can happen.

I don't think it's entirely off-topic, either. Legal prohibitions of discriminatory action are important, but the discrimination really ends when people start acknowledging each other's humanity and proceeding on the basis of what we have in common. It's important to keep that process going while the legal treatment gets hashed out. Here's to the One Music!

Roland de Chanson
November 10, 2008 5:52 PM

I'm late getting back to this thread but it couldn't be helped. The fire is out. Figuratively speaking, that is.

I think Rod is going to have to start a Crunchy Celtic thread, because there seems to be a lot of interest in bards, brethons, and beer!

Sig, no the pagans aren't wrong and the Christians right. I've mentioned before that I'm a devout Jovian Witness. My inner pagan longs for for the Greeks to revive the Eleusinian Mysteries. BTW, my linguistic skills are rather hodge-podge. I've always been fascinated by languages. I am now trying to teach myself Hebrew and am about twenty words into Genesis. I am trying online translators for modern Hebrew so I can build up an essential inventory of important phrases such as "You are more enticing than Judith in the tent of Holofernes. How long did you say your husband is out of town? You don't by any chance own a sword, do you?". ;-)

To the Celtic artists mentioned by Sig, celticdragon and Franklin, I would add Emma Christian, who sings in Manx and has only one album, I think. Also Enya, Clannad and Loreena McKennitt (not specifically Celtic as mystical and eclectic. She goes will with Armagnac.) Also Therese Schroeder-Sheker. I love her "Deluded Love" on the album "Rosa Mystica." Did I mention I am in love with her too? What can I say - mysticism and eclecticism is very érotique in a woman.

howard
December 7, 2008 4:59 AM

While I do not approve of same-sex marriage, the pro-gays would win fairly quickly and in a much less divisive way if they would take the line "gay is the new Jewish" not "gay is the new black." Sexual freedom was read into the US Constitution in 2003 as basically an analogue to religious freedom. And if the pro-gays would adhere to the "sex as religion" line, not the "sexual orientation as race" line, they would win without having to rely on dubious theories of "gay genes" or other analogies that only offend racial minorities, and appeal to other sexual "sinners" who want sexual freedom too - adulterers, cohabitors, and fornicators in this country outnumber gays and lesbians probably about ten to one or more!

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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