Crunchy Con

What sick, wicked culture produced such people?

Friday November 28, 2008

What sick, wicked culture produced such people? I said of the greedy Wal-mart stampeders who killed a guy. When hoi polloi rampage at Wal-mart, driven to behave in berserk ways by their greed, we're shocked. But what do we call...
Advertisement
Comments
Your Name
November 28, 2008 6:18 PM

When hoi polloi rampage at Wal-mart, driven to behave in berserk ways by their greed, we're shocked.

THANK YOU for simply writing "hoi polloi" instead of "the hoi polloi." :)

EricW
November 28, 2008 6:22 PM

Sorry, guys ... I'm "Your Name" in the "hoi polloi" comment.

Dianne
November 28, 2008 7:04 PM

Remember that Woody Guthrie song, "Pretty Boy Floyd"?
"Some will rob you with a six-gun / And some with a fountain pen."

Rufus Thomas
November 28, 2008 7:05 PM

My name for what we're suffering from now is "progress" -- or rather the consequences of that very bad idea, which Chesterton defined very well as "belief in Providence, without belief in God," i.e. in contemporary terms, (a) the belief that houses always increase in value, the markets will always go up, and that we can, by hook or crook, grow our way out of any debt we ever incur, coupled with (b) the belief that there is no other purpose in life than to gratify our basest desires, right here, right now.

Given where "progress" has gotten us, I for one am not especially sanguine that our recent turn toward "progressive" politics is going to do us much good -- a sentiment for which ample evidence is offered by the Reverend's recent unveiling of an "economic team" made up mostly if not entirely by just the same people and the same sort of people who brought us where we find ourselves now.

I have yet to detect any substantive "change" of course in the Reverend's approach as opposed to what McCain's would have been or what Bush's has been for the past eight years or what Clinton's was the eight years before that.

I likewise have yet to be surprised by "hope" or by messiah-gasms up and down my legs or in my loins.

But I'm just bitter, no doubt. Or a racist. Maybe both.

Robin Thomas
November 28, 2008 7:36 PM

Shiller is a smart guy, but wrong about one thing; this mess was predicted by MANY people, including Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, and the blogs of Dr. Housing Bubble and Housing Panic, YEARS AGO. It was obvious to anybody with a lick of sense that houses should not be going up 20% per year. And Alan Greenspan certainly understood what was happening.

EricW
November 28, 2008 8:13 PM

We're just writing another chapter:

http://www.amazon.com/Extraordinary-Popular-Delusions-Madness-Crowds/dp/9562915700/

celticdragon
November 28, 2008 9:10 PM

"But what do we call it when pinstriped professionals on Wall Street and in the City and their affiliates worldwide carry out their own greed-driven version of same, only far more politely and destructively to the common good? Well, when you find a name for what we're going through now, there will be your answer."


You call them good Republicans, and a credit to the free market system.

At least that's what they were called last year. Snark aside, I say this as a life long Republican and a believer in Capitalism. However, we have to realize that we created a form of idolatry when we fetishized the free market and cheered as profits for the top one percent of Americans soared past reason, while the rest of us watched ourselves sink into needless consumer debt, soured and stagnating wages and sky high medical bills.

My eyes were opened when I got badly injured on the job at a major aviation facility in North Carolina. The injury was permanent, and I was shocked to discover that the company was denying the injury had happened on the company premesis, and was also denying my workman's comp case. I was escorted to the gate, and my badge was confiscated. While I had to sue to get reimbursement for thirty thousand dollars of medical bills and expenses, the company CEO was taken out in handcuffs by the FBI for stock manipulation and embezzlement, (a cool one million had disappeared from an employee comp fund). Meanwhile, the other employees had taken a pay cut since the company had been gutted by previous management (sounds like a pattern...), but we all found out that execs were handing each other $500,000 bonuses for landing contracts, and withholding pay raises from us. When a walk out started getting discussed, all of a sudden the rank and file got taken seriously.

That is when I realized that George Orwell was right when he wrote "Animal Farm". Some of us are more equal than the others, and we can all watch the proletariat workhorse getting carted off to the knackers. I will never trust American company management again.

Greg
November 28, 2008 9:53 PM

This is what happens when Wii games and Disney Princess junk is on sale. Wait until the financial meltdown happens - then what??

Jen
November 28, 2008 10:13 PM

I got to have a 'personal' version of parts of this talk on the Amtrak down to DC this past Monday. Dr. Shiller was sitting behind me for over an hour of my journey. He was on his cell phone pretty much non-stop, and the man is LOUD. I could hear every word, even though I was watching a movie on my laptop, with my earphones on. Even over the additional train noise. I finally just took my earphones and listened to him. He had some interesting things to say, and was tossing off enough personal information that I was able to google him in about 20 seconds once I arrived in DC.

Will
November 28, 2008 10:29 PM

But what do we call it when Berkenstock clad 'journalists' on Young
St. and their affiliates worldwide carry out their own ego-driven version of same, only far more politely and destructively to the common good?

Alex
November 28, 2008 10:36 PM

I was on a banking conference last Wednesday in NY. One the speakers kept saying that the current crisis happened because Democrats created too many regulations in banking and only a truly free market is the cure.

In a truly free market these banks would have been dead and they fully deserve that. Some people are incurable.

Scott
November 28, 2008 10:45 PM

The New Yorker's "Anatomy of a Meltdown" is a must-read.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/12/01/081201fa_fact_cassidy

Scott
November 28, 2008 10:49 PM

Jen,

You left us hanging. What did he say?

Jen
November 28, 2008 11:12 PM

Scott - various soundbytes about his upcoming book, various chunks (repeatedly, as he was on more than one call) of what he said in the youtube clip above, that sometimes a cabbie can sum up what's wrong with us economically more succinctly than a talking head, that people are too apt to believe their stockbrokers without weighing whether the advice a stockbroker gives is really more in the client's best interests than in the stockbroker's best interests, and that he doesn't like to advise people because he doesn't like to be responsible for their disappointment if he turns out not to be correct -- all my paraphrasing, not direct quotes, of course.


Scott
November 28, 2008 11:40 PM

Jen,

Thanks for update. I've seen him on CNBC and other venues making his points and, yeah, he is LOUD.

Daniel
November 28, 2008 11:44 PM

Jen,

This is why you need to sit in the quiet car, so you don't have to listen to such nonsense. :)

Scott
November 28, 2008 11:52 PM

It could have been worse. At least Jen missed Chris Matthews ranting about Hillary Clinton a while back.

Kit Stolz
November 29, 2008 12:16 AM

Schiller talks of the shocking volatility in the financial markets, with the standard deviation at 5% in the past month (meaning swings of 800 points or more in a day -- up or down).

As he says, this surely is a mostly psychological phenomenon, because it's profoundly irrational. It's difficult-to-impossible to sail safely through the financial market over the long term when the waves are that high. You're going to get swamped, and when you do, you're going to take on a lot of water...and maybe sink.

But volatility in the 21st century is not just financial. We've also seen it in commodity prices this year, both food and oil, and we're seeing in climate indexes.

Those who question global warming will usually point out that climate has always varied, and not just seasonally, but epochally. Of course this is true. But what this analysis fails to mention is that the trend-line today clearly points towards warming, and, more alarming, the variations of drought and storm are becoming more severe.

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/hansen_04/

We may look back on the second half of the 20th century as a demographically and politically tumultuous time, but a relatively placid era in terms of stock market and climate indexes. A scary thought.

Michele
November 29, 2008 1:12 AM

He's pretty good at saying not much about something.

Jen
November 29, 2008 2:04 AM

Daniel - had there been a quiet car, that's where I would've planted myself at the departure point. However, there was NO quiet car on that train. Not sure if that's because I was taking a regional and not an Acela, or what...all I know was the conductor informed a few of us that there weren't any such thing on taht particular train. Sadly.

Daniel
November 29, 2008 8:12 AM

Jen, I think when things are really crowded they abandon the quiet car, because I've sat in one on a regional. They are one of Amtrak's greatest achievements.

Rufus Thomas
November 29, 2008 9:46 AM

celticdragon,

As often as not -- and maybe *more* often than not -- the "pinstriped professionals" that Rod refers are good Democrats, not good Republicans.

They certainly gave much more of their money to support the Lightworker campaign than they did to support the McCain campaign.

I'm wondering where you think the Reverend's "economic team" came from.

Straight from the not-for-profit sphere?

Straight from doing charitable work?

Straight from serving soup in an almshouse?

I think not.

PS: It's also worth point out that the aforementioned "pinstriped professionals" share all of your secular progressive views -- views which are underwritten by, and which in turn merely serve to enable, precisely the economic paradigm with which you feign to disagree. This is but one of many reasons why these folks are Democrats as often as not.

john
November 29, 2008 12:45 PM

I just thought of a skit (sorry it's in bad taste): the newsreader says "It was a relatively safe Thanksgiving weekend, with 30 traffic fatalities nationwide, and five shopping-related deaths, down one from last year". Someone good could do this really well.

SteveM
November 29, 2008 1:22 PM

I second both Alex and Michele above.

Augmenting Michele: Shiller meanders around a restatement of the obvious. Boom and bust history is replete with examples of group-think irrationality. And a ton of others had forecasted the current bust.

Augmenting Alex: A transparently capitalistic response to the crisis would be to allow the affected businesses to fail. But not only that, the situation would not have evolved to this point in the first place in a pure marketplace.

Because the underlying risk would have remained in the private sector where it belonged. Once risk could be transferred to the government, an endless do-loop of derivitization was initiated with almost infinite demand. Government offered itself up as the bottomless risk sink.

Once the music stopped on the real estate ponzi scheme, the player without a chair was the government. Surprise, surprise.

No government risk sink - no ponzi scheme. No ponzi scheme - no crisis. Unfortunately, we needed unfettered capitalism applied to the government enabled pathological real estate game years ago.

Francis Beckwith
December 1, 2008 3:41 PM

Girls gone wild. Toys are us. Every child a wanted child. It's my party, I'll cry if I want to.

Your Name
December 2, 2008 10:42 AM

Ah come on, folks. Everyone knows this decline and fall of civilization as we know it is all the fault of them homerseckshuls gittin' hitched. It's unbridled seckshul libertinism that caused this death. Seckshul libertinism created this economic policy o' Shrub's. At least that's what many other threads have wanted us to believe, anyway.

Post a Comment

By submitting these comments, I agree to the beliefnet.com terms of service, rules of conduct and privacy policy (the "agreements"). I understand and agree that any content I post is licensed to beliefnet.com and may be used by beliefnet.com in accordance with the agreements.



Please type the text you see in the box below to verify your post and help us prevent spam. You have a limited time to type - you may wish to compose your comment in a separate document and paste it here upon completion.

Type the characters you see in the picture above.

Advertisement

Search This Blog

About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

feed icon Subscribe

RSS Feed

Receive updates from Crunchy Con

Advertisement

Advertisement


About Beliefnet

Our mission is to help people like you find, and walk, a spiritual path that will bring comfort, hope, clarity, strength, and happiness. More about Beliefnet.

Legal

Copyright © Beliefnet, Inc. and/or its licensors. All rights reserved. Use of this site is subject to Terms of Service and to our Privacy Policy. Constructed by Beliefnet.

Advertisement

Report as Inappropriate

You are reporting this content because it violates the Terms of Service.

All reported content is logged for investigation.