Crunchy Con

Judaism and agrarianism

Tuesday December 2, 2008

Categories: Agrariana, Judaism
Is there a more consistently interesting blog than Sharon Astyk's? She has a long, thoughtful post up about why she's a Jewish farmer, the connections among Judaism, community and place; and how the Jewish connection to the land over many...
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Your Name
December 2, 2008 9:25 AM

Elderly Jews and those on a low income are already struggling in large numbers, because a kosher diet that includes traditional meats is generally much more costly than a typical American diet

I just finished reading the Torah, in English and Hebrew (mostly English, but occasionally checking the Hebrew), and it seems to me that just about all the commandments that are connected to the covenant that YHWH makes with the Israelites at Sinai, and again later as part of Moses's last address to them, are connected to dwelling in the land - not just the priestly/Temple commandments (impossible even for Israeli Jews to keep in the absence of the Tabernacle/Temple), but the other ones as well. I.e., failure to keep the commandments and the covenant results in God driving the Israelites out of the land (as well as sending upon them all the plagues and diseases of Egypt and doing a whole bunch of other things that would make being Jewish a lifelong Nightmare on Elm Street, with YHWH playing Freddie Krueger). Call me a Jewish apostate (which I am), but it seems to me that Jews who don't live in Israel have no Torah requirement to keep the food laws.

Hello?

I know this goes against hundreds and perhaps thousands of years of rabbinical teaching, but the context of the text seems to say this.

Shalom, y'all!

sophie
December 2, 2008 10:19 AM

too bad she's blind to the starvation of Palestinians in Gaza ... it's on the UN's radar screen ... and they blame the Israeli government for the starvation and malnutrition rate.

Erasmus
December 2, 2008 10:46 AM

too bad she's blind to the starvation of Palestinians in Gaza

Did you bother to read Sharon Astyk's post or are you just being obtuse? She says:

"The deep irony and grief that some Jews are so willing to displace Palestinians by force and justify it with their history seems to me one of the saddest and most troubling results of our disrupted agrarian ties"

Joe Magarac
December 2, 2008 11:57 AM

Sharon Astyk's blog if you accept Ms. Astyk's basic premises - which, to quote what's up on her blog right now, are that we must "accept depletion," that the USA must take action now to prevent a "massive food crisis," that "we are in a self-reinforcing deflationary spiral," and that "the economy is a game of music [sic] chairs, and the chairs are disappearing."

These are basic premises because they seem obvious to Ms. Astyk (and also to Rod), which means she never bothers to prove them. At most she cites to other like-minded folks who use similar phrases because they too accept her basic premises.

If you don't accept these basic premises, her blog is not fascinating at all. It is on the contrary boring and more than a little paranoid. I could probably learn a lot from reading it - my family and I want to live more locally and sustainably than we do - but I find Ms. Astyk's relentless doom and gloom intolerable.

budcath
December 2, 2008 2:07 PM

If I were Jewish and starving and a nice big ham was all I could get. I would eat the ham. Same goes if I was Muslim. Just don't get why people are still living by rules set down thousands of years ago regarding food.

What if pork were the only food available in that area. Would God still have forbidden it?

Besides Jesus said it was OK. Kosher's not necessary anymore. Paul reinforced that.

EricW
December 2, 2008 2:17 PM

Besides Jesus said it was OK. Kosher's not necessary anymore. Paul reinforced that.

Last I hear, Orthodox Jews weren't paying a whole lot of attention to what either Jesus or Paul said.

Nor do Muslims. Muhammed overruled anything those two Jews said or wrote.

sophie
December 2, 2008 2:40 PM

Erasmus:

http://www.worldwidewamm.org/takeaction/callins/111408pal.html

displacement is one issue ... deliberate starvation of Palestinians after
displacement is a totally different one. And how come Americans aren't being informed? Why is WAMM the only organization concerned about this?

Does the Israeli government who is behind this deserve the support of American Christians? (they don't even have support of the majority of Israelis, I believe their Olmert (and his ruling party) had about 18% domestic approval ratings, and he's been indicted)...

Until Christians are willing to examine the problem objectively, they are hindering any prospect of peace, denying the values their faith espouses, and risking our domestic security.

Meshugah
December 2, 2008 2:58 PM

Excuse me. Did she say Jewish hunger? Among the most affluent ethnic group in the history of the world? It is indeed a fascinating blog, if by fascinating you mean psychotic.

Anonymous
December 2, 2008 3:59 PM

While Jews are a comparatively affluent ethnic group, that doesn't mean that there is no Jewish hunger, or that all Jews are rich - that's a stereotype. Many older Jews, for example, were immigrants or Holocaust survivors. Many were disabled in the Holocaust, or arrived with limited educations. My husband's grandparents consisted of a woman with a 7th grade education (holocaust survivor) and a partly disabled war survivor - they sold Fuller Brush products door to door, and eventually my husband's grandmother went to school at night and became an LPN to support her disabled husband. Her peers often had similar stories - and none of them are affluent in their old age. Some have children who can support them, but if they don't, they are often extremely poor, as are many Soviet Jewish immigrants.

In past recessions, observant Jews have often been laid off ahead of their secular or Christian counterparts because they cannot work on the Sabbath, and this is expected to be the case in the coming recession. Observant Jews in general make less money than secular Jews, and endure higher costs of living. In general, secular Jews are considerably richer than observant ones, although obviously there are exceptions.

http://www.metcouncil.org/site/PageServer?pagename=About_Jewish_Poverty_FAQs

The above explores Jewish poverty in New York City and finds that while Jewish poverty is well below Black and Hispanic poverty, that Jews have about the same rate of poverty as non-hispanic whites overall in NYC.

AML
December 2, 2008 4:13 PM

Wait a minute. What is this stuff about deliberate starving of Palestinians? You mean those Palestinians who now possess Gaza after all Israelis withdrew, but continue to bombard Israel with rockets?

In February 2008, Israeli-Palestinian fighting intensified with rockets launched at Israeli cities and Israel attacking Palestinian militants. An increase in rocket attacks led to a heavy Israeli military action on March 1, resulting in over 100 Palestinians being killed according to BBC News, as well as 2 Israeli soldiers. ....

On Nov 14th, 2008, Gaza was blockaded by Israel, leaving 1.5 million people without food, power, heat and water, in response to attacks by Hamas and other militant groups operating inside Gaza [51], however food, power and water can still enter from Egypt if the Egyptian authorities allow it.

After a 24-hour period in which not a single Qassam rocket or mortar was fired into Israel, on November 24th the IDF facilitated the transfer of over 30 truckloads of food, basic supplies and medicine into the Gaza Strip, and it also transferred fuel to the main power plant of the area [52]. On November 25th Israel closed its cargo crossing with Gaza due to two rockets being shot at Israel [53].
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip

I think I would like to control those people's ability to enter and exit my country too.


Another Ann
December 2, 2008 4:41 PM

a kosher diet that includes traditional meats is generally much more costly than a typical American diet

Free-range chickens, hormone-free beef, cage-free eggs, and organic produce are also more expensive than the "typical American diet". Many people think they are healthier too, so they make the choice, and if it pinches, they give up something else. Entertainment, sometimes.

EricW
December 2, 2008 9:27 PM

Speaking of kosher, the current issue of Biblical Archaeology Today has an interesting article on "do not boil a kid in its mother's milk" and how that might have been a mistranscription - i.e., perhaps "fat" instead of "milk" - and how it may also have to do with not putting meat in the clay pot used for milk or making yogurt.

Check it out.

EricW
December 2, 2008 9:33 PM

Sorry - Biblical Archaeology REVIEW.

sophie
December 3, 2008 11:30 AM

AML:

"Those people" says it all.....

Scott Lahti
December 3, 2008 1:22 PM
http://wordpress.com/tag/scott-lahti/

Old Moish'ugah had a farm
Oy vay, oy vah, oy
With a *cchhh-cchhh* here
And a *cchhh-cchhh* there...

This comment brought to you by the makers of Eaters’ Digest Condensed Soup; and by Pullet Surprise chicken-flavor cubes: the Gold Standard in bouillon; and by Fill-Up Broth, a Kosher favorite so rich - he’s a doctor, you know - you’ll be loosening your Borscht belt in a Newark minute: you should *be* so full...

The Full Modo: What do you need, my son, and to what extent?
Quasimodo: Sanctuary - much!
TFM: Why, you're welcome my son - take your time...

stari_momak
December 3, 2008 1:54 PM

There's a traditional Italian dish of pork, browned then braised long and slow in milk. The meat is removed and the cooking liquid further reduced to a lovely gravy which is ladled over the pork at serving time. Talk about treff!

Andrea
December 3, 2008 2:36 PM

"a kosher diet that includes traditional meats is generally much more costly than a typical American diet"

"Free-range chickens, hormone-free beef, cage-free eggs, and organic produce are also more expensive than the "typical American diet". Many people think they are healthier too, so they make the choice, and if it pinches, they give up something else. Entertainment, sometimes."

OR
Learn to eat less meat. My mother used to cook for 5 hearty appetites on far less than 1 pound per night by going heavy on the rice, potatoes, pasta, stretching meatloaf and hamburger with old bread soaked in milk and so on. Of course it is better to use the whole grains but meat does not have to be, nor should it be, the bulk of the meal. A few ounces per person is enough. Beans are a great source of protein and incredibly cheap and low in fat too, can often be used in a dish with meat to stretch it further.

ben tillman
December 24, 2008 12:02 AM

"While Jews are a comparatively affluent ethnic group, that doesn't mean that there is no Jewish hunger, or that all Jews are rich - that's a stereotype. Many older Jews, for example, were immigrants or Holocaust survivors."

Um, all Jews are Holocaust survivors.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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