Crunchy Con

A Southern wedding

Saturday January 10, 2009

Categories: The South
I'm in my hometown today for a wedding of an old friend. She's a US Army officer, and her now-husband is a British Army officer. They got married in a beautiful Episcopal church under the moss-strewn oak trees. I'll be...
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Comments
Steven
January 11, 2009 7:33 AM

As for the building & the oak trees, I can make no commitment. But the old Book of Common Prayer is used in certain Western Rite parishes of the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Other Antiochian Western Rite parishes use the old Roman services in English. The idea is to make the Orthodox Church more comfortable for Western converts.

Joshua Knox
January 11, 2009 9:10 AM

Since you've raised the issue (albeit it indirectly), I have a question for you.

What is the difference between "Greek Orthodox" and "The Orthodox Church in/of America"? Is it just a matter of whom they acknowledge as Metropolitan? I ask because in my area we have a self-styled Greek Orthodox Church about 20 minutes away and a branch of the Orthodox Church in/of America about 50 minutes away. I'm curious about Orthodoxy and would like to check it out. Will there be a significant difference between the two churches? I apologize if this question reveals a certain amount of ignorance, but this is new to me. Thank you for your time.

allbetsareoff
January 11, 2009 12:21 PM

Thanks for your concern, Rod, but the Anglican Communion isn’t going to die at the hands of the current crop of secessionists, any more than it succumbed to the Methodists 250 years ago. Many of the breakaways will return, or convert to another Protestant sect, once they realize how extreme their new African prelates are.

And no English-language rite can touch Anglican-Episcopalian liturgy and music for reverence or emotional resonance. Remember the 9/11 memorial service at Washington National Cathedral? When the going gets really tough, everybody becomes an Episcopalian.

maria
January 11, 2009 12:43 PM

Joshua,if you are fond of Greek culture and singing choose Greek, but going to American Orthodox would be more patriotic. Try both.

Here is what says american priest Fr.Christopher Foley:

"We are Orthodox Christians who live in North America and uniquely experience the Orthodox Church in an American context. We are not American Orthodox. We are not hyphenated Orthodox Christians who define ourselves primarily by an ethnic identity and then try to fit our Orthodoxy into that designation. The Church has even condemned as heresy the identification of Christianity primarily in ethnic terms - phyletism. There is nothing wrong with saying "American Orthodox Church", "Greek Orthodox Church". etc., as long as one understands that this is the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Orthodox Church as found in a particular geographic area (America) and incarnating itself in that area for the sake of spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the people from that area. Thus an American Orthodox Church should be able to bring in things appropriate from the culture in order to communicate the Gospel in a culturally appropriate way."

from this article: http://www.pravmir.com/article_465.html

-masha

silver
January 11, 2009 1:06 PM

Rod said:
"I'll be honest with you, I found myself thinking at one point during the wedding service, "God bless the Episcopalians."

I don't get it. What is there in that sentiment that requires a conscious attempt at honesty?

Anne
January 11, 2009 2:01 PM

When the going gets really tough, everybody becomes an Episcopalian.

Is this a joke?

Your Name
January 11, 2009 2:56 PM

My thougts...

When the going gets tough, believing and practicing Christians, no matter the Sect or Denomination, Protestant or Roman Catholic, Coptic or Orthodox (there is more than one) should turn to GOD. The Church is a Good Place -- God's Place, but the GOD-Head is whom we should be leaning on, learning from and listening to... via the Church, God's Word, the learned teachers of our Christian Faith... there are many in each sect and denomination...

In the end, it is my understanding, there will be only one Church with a capital C -- we need to begin that process sooner not later ... Jesus Christ was not a Christian, afterall...We call ourselves Christians because of our love for Him; our Faith in Him...Can we please practice that love and faith??? If we would practice Biblical Truths... imagine the changes!

The Shack by Young -- altho' a novel, it will give great insight and create the appropriate questions; stimulate thought about our FAITH...

John
January 11, 2009 4:48 PM

"I found myself thinking at one point during the wedding service, 'God bless the Episcopalians, I hope they make it. This is so beautiful'".
I agree, when the traditional denominations put their mind to it, they can really get it right. When I used to attend the mainline Presbyterian church, there would be moments like this.

Susan in CT
January 11, 2009 6:34 PM

To Joshua Knox--

To (very, very sketchily) supplement what masha had to say:

Both the Orthodox Church in America and the Greek Orthodox Church are branches of the worldwide Orthodox Church, in communion with each other. They both worship using the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom as a basis. That said:

The Orthodox Church in America is a self-governing Orthodox Church which traces its roots to the efforts of Russian missionaries in pre-communist times. Some parishes are still predominantly ethnically Russian; others are majority convert (and hence usually garden-variety American). Their ratio of English to Church Slavonic in the service varies similarly. Music will generally be recognizably western. Visit oca.org to get more information about the parish near you.

The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in America is governed, ultimately, by the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople. As in the OCA, some parishes are predominantly ethnically Greek; others have more converts. Use of Greek in the service varies similarly. Music will often be Byzantine chant. Visit goarch.org to get more information about the parish near you.

To experience some of each type of music (and for plenty of excellent podcasts on Orthodoxy), visit ancientfaith.com, a 24-hour online radio station with both talk and music options.

And, yes, by all means, visit both churches!

Susan

Jeff
January 11, 2009 8:10 PM

Civil religion with aesthetic values -- what's not to like?

Joshua Knox
January 11, 2009 8:29 PM

Thanks to both Susan and Masha!

AML
January 11, 2009 10:21 PM

Marriage nowadays is so weird. Mainly it seems to be the excuse for a large expensive wedding party, sometimes years after all the things that we used to think marriage was about have already taken place. Things like living together, combining resources, buying houses, having children.

"We're engaged" they say. "The wedding is going to be in summer 2010." Everything we used to think people did when they married, they have already done. So why don't they just go down to the courthouse and get a license and do the deed? Now. No, it is important to have the white dress, the big cake, the disk jockey and the big impersonal pricey venue.

Weird, I say.

Dan
January 12, 2009 1:47 PM

"When the going gets really tough, everybody becomes an Episcopalian."

Tell that to Thomas More.

Les Jeux Sont Faits
January 12, 2009 3:03 PM

On the strength of 2 Timothy 4:3-4, I expect TEC to be around for some time to come.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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