"Cool to be bisexual"
Horrible story in today's Dallas Morning News about an East Texas man who survived the home invasion and slaughter of his wife and children, carried out by his and his wife's teenage daughter, Erin, and three of her friends (all...
...but the killings aren't what shocked me about this story. What got me was this: This is a tiny East Texas town -- and there's a bisexual culture in one of them, among the teenagers? WTF?
I think your priorities are sort of askew Rod.
Charlie Wilkinson became one of the murderers, but the killings aren't what shocked me about this story. What got me was this: This is a tiny East Texas town -- and there's a bisexual culture in one of them, among the teenagers? WTF?
Un-frakkin'-believable.
You are not shocked about the cold blooded murder of a family by sociopathic teenagers.
You are shocked that some of the killers are bi-sexual.
Rod...that has to one of the most shockingly bizarre and atrociously inappropriate sentiments I have read in years.
A brutal and vicious crime has been committed, and you can only think that you don't want your kids to be icky bisexuals??!!
Blatant idiocy like this is why so many of my GLBT brothers and sisters use believe conservative Christians are overtly prejudiced.
I think this column needs to be read widely, and I will sending it where it will be appreciated for what it is.
"but the killings aren't what shocked me about this story. What got me was this: This is a tiny East Texas town -- and there's a bisexual culture in one of them, among the teenagers?"
Wow, just wow.
It should also be noted that your sensationalistic quote that you used as the post title, came from the father and was not a statement made by a bisexual.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, your review of Our American Cousin hit all the right targets, distracted though you be by the firecrackers and backed-up steam engines during the punchlines...
Must remember to bone up on my old Jerry Springer tapes before answering, silently, Brother Rod's rhetorical question, as he prepares to "Go Galt" [or Benedict] on the culture with the little Crunchberries...
Might be interesting to know if it is true. The only objective evidence you have is that the daughter was disturbed, proven by her killing family. Seems more likely she said whatever she thought would irritate her parents. A decent reporter could probably ferret out the truth.
Do you think the homeschooling period had anything to do with the daughter eventually killing her family? Maybe it was the heterosexual relationship with Charlie.
Steve
You guys are misreading me. Obviously the massacre of this family is shocking. But the existence of such decadence among teenagers in a tiny Texas town is more shocking to me. I didn't say it was more morally offensive. Plainly, cold-blooded murder, indeed murder of one's own family, is just about the worst thing imaginable. The moral breakdown of at least some of the teenage culture in this town, if Mr. Caffey's account is accurate, strikes me as even more unusual than the murders. Which was my only point.
Fortunately, this young girl was able to reject the advances of these predatory bisexual girls and find her way back to boyrfriends who feel her up at picnics and then kill the troubled girl's family with other heterosexual boys.
There were problems in this town--and this family--but a few "bisexuals are cool" types were the least of their worries.
The moral breakdown of at least some of the teenage culture in this town, if Mr. Caffey's account is accurate, strikes me as even more unusual than the murders.
Really? Some adolescent sexual experimentation strikes you as more unusual than a home invasion and multiple murder abetted by one of the family members?
Like I said - your priorities strike me as being askew.
When flappers bobbed their hair back in the '20s, when boys greased their hair in the '50s, when boys grew their hair out in the '60s and wore beards, and girls wore jeans and stopped perming their hair -- all of this was seen as sexually deviant and challenging to what the previous generation saw as the right way for the genders to behave, and thus a sign of impending doom. There's a certain ahistorical narcissism in seeing this generation as one of unique decadence and doom.
Is there any indication that Caffey's grasp on the culture of his daughter's high school is accurate? Could it be that his interpretation of the high school's culture might be somewhat hysterical? He certainly wouldn't be the first person to get hysterical over high school subcultures.
Of course, that's also the kind of hysteria that *inspires* violence against human beings who are homosexual.
Just as small can be beautiful, it can also be vicious. It is like any of God's good gifts, often they are willfully destroyed.
Here you have a girl, (whose parents obviously love her), who likes a guy, who if he bothered to be respectful, would most likely have found a loving family with which to be a part. What a waste. What evil.
I simply do not see how you could have any grounds to be surprised that one teenager allegedly thinks it's ok to be bisexual. I realize you don't watch much TV, Rod, but most teenagers do, and bisexuality and homosexuality are presented as normal and acceptable on most networks. East Texas isn't a hermetically sealed bubble of anti-gay sentiment where everyone has to think exactly what their parents think, much as you might wish it to be.
This post is just evidence of your unhealthy sexual paranoia and the way it clouds your reasoning.
Rod, this says it right here:
Obviously the massacre of this family is shocking. But the existence of such decadence among teenagers in a tiny Texas town is more shocking to me.
For someone who is pro-life, are you really saying you find it easier to accept violence and family breakdown, but find the acceptance of bisexuality more troubling?
Your homework assignment seems to me to go to that town and profile the families of the kids who think bisexuality is cool and the families of the murderers and kids who associated with them, and see if there is any overlap.
It seems we've found something on which Rod Dreher and Dan Savage can agree: neither are fans of bisexuality.
I'd like to stick up for Rod.
It is extremely sad, repugnant and frightening to all of us that mass murders by teens of their families, including this one, are becoming more and more commonplace. In fact, even though we are naturally still disturbed to hear these stories, we are becoming accustomed to them happening. We aren't surprised to hear them anymore.
I think what Rod is trying to get at is that, for him (and myself, as well), hearing and realizing that bisexuality is a cool "culture" for some groups of teenagers is what is more surprising about this story.
I think his use of the word "shocking" may have been a poor choice. I do not think he is in anyway implying that their sexual choices, orientations, or affectations caused them to murder.
Peter
Well that's just naive. Bisexuality has been cool among teenagers for years, for centuries among the upper classes.
Funny how Rod is so ignorant of the very phenomenon about which he's always running his mouth and freaking out.
I'd like to stick up for Rod.
It is extremely sad, repugnant and frightening to all of us that mass murders by teens of their families, including this one, are becoming more and more commonplace. In fact, even though we are naturally still disturbed to hear these stories, we are becoming accustomed to them happening. We aren't surprised to hear them anymore.
I think what Rod is trying to get at is that, for him (and myself, as well), hearing and realizing that bisexuality is a cool "culture" for some groups of teenagers is what is more surprising about this story.
I think his use of the word "shocking" may have been a poor choice. I do not think he is in anyway implying that their sexual choices, orientations, or affectations caused them to murder.
Peter
Maybe Rod is engaging in some sort of post-modern, ironic self-parody here with this post.
At least I hope he is.
Teenage bisexual subculture more shocking/surprising than abetting the murder of one's family.
Naw, he can't be serious...
I have to agree with (almost) everyone that this post is in extremely bad taste.
Bisexual chic among East Texas teenagers -- or among teenagers in general -- is an interesting subject and one that merits conversation.
But this is neither the time nor the place to broach the topic, given the other and more pressing circumstances involved.
If I were you, Rod, I would simply remove the post and apologize for putting it up.
That would be the gentlemanly and (much more importantly) the Christian thing to do.
I read the entire news article. Unless I missed it, there is no allegation that the girl or her boyfriend were bisexual. The girl was definitely homeschooled; she definitely was allowed to have bad boyfriends... but bisexuality enters into this crime, how exactly?
Rod,
Save yourself the frustration, delete this post. Write an apology, explain what you were trying to say and hope your boss is going to back you up. I don't know what you are trying to say but I do know you are going to get a lot of heat for this.
Mr. Dreher,
Murder of one's parents is not "unusual"??
You may choose not to 'give your children over' to this culture, but it's quite possible they may choose it anyway. I was brought up in a hard-core atheist family, and I'm now a fairly religious Anglo-Catholic.
I don't think that there's anything wrong with having bisexual or, to be honest, gay _inclinations_. And for all we know that's all that's going one here, adolescent crushes on boys and girls as well. One can be straight and never have had actual sex. I do personally think that homosexual _acts_ are wrong, but I recognize that a good case can be made for the other side- it's a matter somewhat open to question, and in any case hardly a sin equivalent to murder.
I am anxious to read the rest of the series. I'm betting this girl has much more serious problems than firtatious bisexuals and poor choices in boys.
OMG, with all the cross-pollinating airborne comments above, I feel as though I might be...ah..ah..turning...'scuse me: ah..ah [turns away]..AHKERSPLUNGEI'MBI!!!
[sniffle] That does it - looks like I'm going to have to call in bi tomorrow; that's what I get for being even bi-curious and chancing a wander into the wrong thread. I'll be straight again (whatever a long-ago commenter thinks) in a day or so - but those poor kids are going bi-bi for a long, long time, and may not have the sort of support groups we bi-polar types need as we charge ahead into the cold, dark demographic "homosocialist" (eh, Cleveland? Cleveland? I miss you! - Bugs.) winters to come...
Lucky the murders didn't take place in Mongolia - Ed.
That's the beauty about this kind of sloppy posting - you'd think bisexuality was involved in the murder. It was NOT.
This is about moral breakdown, all right. The moral breakdown of the girl who appears to have rebelled against her homeschooling and upbringing, the moral breakdown of her boyfriend and his friends that led them to kill her family for her.
I appreciate Peter's attempt to clarify Rod's "shock".
But I still think Rod needs to take a look at himself and what he doesn't allow to shock him anymore.
Murder/violence, greed, selfishness folks. Keep your eyes on the prize. The sex stuff is all titillating, I'm sure. But keep your eyes on the prize.
The pre-edit post did show a lot more moral disgust with the bisexual thing than with the violent murders. But the bisexual thing is not really terribly surprising, if it was even true. They're teenagers and are exploring their identity, and sexuality is a part of that; plus bisexual implies a level of openness that matches up with the high modern regard for tolerance regardless of actual orientation. I actually suspect the latter being a bigger factor here than the former, given the father's comments:
Also, from reading the piece, the father probably couldn't notice "cool" if "cool" stood in front of him, waving its arms and shouting "hey, I'm an overused aesthetic regarded highly among the young and misunderstood by the old". So I'm not too sure about the accuracy of the comments, though I have a lot of respect for his actions - pushing his way out of the house and a long way to the neighbors in the condition he was in.
As a further note,, even if gay sex is a sin, the homo/bisexual orientation isn't, and is more tuned into basic identity than anything else. Yet here (as elsewhere) the distinction is getting dropped.
On reading the article, the more 'unusual' and 'shocking' aspects of the crime appear to be the extreme violence involved. There is a lot of things that this story says about moral decadence in America, but bisexuality isn't one of them.
Really, this is in very bad taste.
Most of the posts in regard to this topic demonstrate that homosexuality, its lesbian equivalent, and their close cousins (bisexuality and transgenderism [WTFTM]), cloud the mind.
Maybe homeschooling caused the whole thing. There's an entire subculture of people in this country who think it might, who think homeschoolers are homicidal freaks.
The few bisexuals I know - you can count them on one hand - are too busy with love or its reasonable facsimile to murder anybody.
I'm sick of hearing about homosexuals, part-time and full-time, and the weight on their poor, chip-burdened shoulders.
Nor am I persuaded that parricide and matricide are more common now than in previous generations.
Viewing With Alarm is a time-honored pastime of the old, as is confusing their own mortality with the end of the world.
count me among those who found your comments deplorable. Bisexuals go to school. Homosexuals go to school. Heterosexuals go to school and those who are not yet sure of their sexuality go to school.
I'd think that the murder of one's own parents would be more shocking than the fact that some people sexually go both ways.
And as a gay person all I can say is that I'm thankful that I never had you as a parent. I'd want to learn in an environment that accepts me for who I am and not not one that brushes my concerns under the rug or one that shames me into silence.
I guess I should find your comments shocking but then again, I read your blog too much.
Never mind. I see that the post I am complaining about has been removed
Rod, I share your surprise that a supposedly significant "bisexual culture" exists in a small Texas town. There probably are a number of variables to consider. One might be environmental. What communities experience the largest exposure to chemicals? Probably farm and ranch communities, where herbicides, pesticides and synthetic fertilizers are omnipresent in enormous doses. There are studies out there that are suggesting that some of these chemicals may affect gender identity, sexual preference, etc. I am aware of some anecdotal evidence relating to this. I know a conservative, Missouri Synod Lutheran pastor who married a midwestern farm girl. They homeschooled, etc. Suddenly, marriage fell apart when farm girl turned out to be bisexual. Also turned out that farm girl had connections with others in her conservative farming community that were also either lesbian or bisexual. I realize this is one case, and that I haven't exactly done a scientific study of it. But it does suggest, SUGGEST, that there may be factors in rural communities (beyond the cultural issues) that are leading to higher levels of bisexual behavior. Its an issue worth looking into.
One last thing: the issue I just mentioned (that the use of pesticides, herbicides, etc in rural communities may explain the significant amount of bisexuality there) actually was alluded to in Gordon Durnil's The Making of a Conservative Environmentalist. Essentially, his point was this: as conservatives, we are concerned about the increase in certain types of (what we consider) deviant sexual behavior. Typically, we have assumed that this increase was due to cultural factors (permissiveness). But what if, he asked, the increase was actually due to environmental factors? I think he was right to ask the question.
Reading the comments, what on earth is wrong with some of you? I'm not saying bisexuals killed that family.Good grief. It's obvious that the murderers include the daughter and her boyfriend. The bisexuality thing was a mere aside that I found more startling than the murders, given the small-town culture where this crime took place. I freely admit that I am out of touch with teenage culture today. If you're bound and determined to conclude that I think bisexuality is worse than murder, you're completely wrong, and you're willfully misreading my post for whatever reason. At least understand what you're doing, and the bad faith in which you're doing it.
A pastor was shot dead in his pulpit today in Illinois. That appalls me. It doesn't shock me. This kind of thing happens these days. Sad but true. You don't hear every day about a tiny Texas town whose teenagers are engaged in a culture of bisexuality. At least I don't.
Ostrea
By all means, please enlighten me as to how you have arrived at your conclusion.
I am most curious just how GLBT people have "clouded" minds, and what constitutes "clouded" in the first place. Clouded or obscured from your religious epiphanany?
Sexually clouded or obstructed?
Mentally/intellectually clouded?
Please elaborate.
Present citations, if you can.
Just read the entire article. A repellent tale.
What goes wrong inside a young girl's head - or the heads of her boyfriends, for that matter - that they could kill anyone in this fashion, no matter what the situation?
I don't entertain the notion that this sort of thing is new, still less do I think it had anything to do with bisexuality - the reporter seems to have thrown that in to increase circulation, and it's working here too. But this: a young girl is dead inside. She is capable of monstrous acts. The kinds of things that make grown soldiers vomit on the battlefield get no reaction from her.
This is all very sensational, but there is almost certainly a lot more to this story than we are being told. There were very serious warning signs, or there were things going on in that family that we are not being told about. Something is very wrong here, beyond the tale in the article.
Was anyone from DMN able to confirm a signigicant Bi-sexual culture amoung the teens at Emory?
Did anyone bother?
Does a bi-sexual subculture in a tiny Texas town have any correlation with the parricide/ fratricide of a heterosexual teen couple.
Rod, you've covered plenty of sexual amorality among teens, from rainbow parties, to syphilis epidemics among the well to do children of the sub-burbs.
The post is counter intuitive and almost non- sensical. You may as well looked at homeschooling a variable.
Neither bi-sexuality nor homeschooling were at play in this horror.
Before the "homeschooling" thing gets too out of hand, a brief survey of the news articles on the story reveals that the murderous teen attended regular, public schools for all but a bit less than three years of her education. The parents homeschooled while they were moving and for a while afterward over their concerns about the schools in Emory. Given that the three young adults who assisted Erin Caffey in murdering her family were not ever homeschooled, it's a little hard to blame "homeschooling" for this one.
As far as what Rod is saying, a Psychology Today report from 1992 on teen murderers mentioned that between 1977-1986, more than three hundred parents were murdered *each year* by their own adolescent child/children. I have to wonder whether the statistics from 1986-2009 would show an increase or a decrease in that annual number; my best guess is that the number has probably gone up, even if only slightly.
So if about 300 parents/year are murdered by or with the involvement of their teens, this is not a rare event any longer. Horrific and terrible as this particular story is, it's not something unheard of--it is, sadly, taking place on a near-daily basis, awful as that is to contemplate.
Now, I still have to disagree with Rod a little; sadly, our culture which pushes all sorts of alternative lifestyles at high school age children is thriving even in small towns, so it's not particularly shocking to me that one small town would be known for its "bisexual" culture. When you get federal money and federal mandates to hold classroom sessions teaching children that sexual expression and experimentation are totally acceptable for them to try out (so long as they paid attention during that condom/banana hands-on workshop), you're quickly going to see kids deciding which alternative lifestyles are "cool" or need to be emulated. The message from adults is "You're not special unless you're sexually active, and you're not really *really* special unless you're LGBTQ etc." I would say that this sad, sick story is the story of how regardless of one's sexual orientation the high schools of America are not in partnership with parents who want their children to appreciate the value of chastity.
The Caffeys' "crime" was in trying to end their daughter's relationship with a controlling and disrespectful young man who was older than she was and who shared none of their values. With the predominant culture, including her school, telling her that she should be able to see her boyfriend as much as she wanted and engage in sex as much as she wanted, the young woman apparently found it intolerable to be told "no" by people who actually gave a damn about the ultimate consequences of her reckless behavior.
From Update 2:
"Reading the comments, what on earth is wrong with some of you?"
I'll repeat what I said in my first post...
Wow, just wow.
Rod,
I get what you are saying. That teens kill their families, their teachers, their classmates is as well known and not uncommon as it is repugnant. It does come as a shock to find things like a culture of teen bisexuality in places where one doesn't expect to find it. For the answer, cable TV and the internet are the great democratizers.
Unlike many who have commented here, I have become somewhat used to the idea that teens kill, and when they do, it's especially, exquisitely vicious and cruel. It's the anti-Michael Corleone. For them it isn't business. It's personal. If there is an added dimension of bisexuality as cool behavior in the story, that becomes shocking.
The tragedy is that children committing murder has lost its power to outrage us. I suspect that those who reported the story needed the bisexuality angle to sensationalize the murders.
Well, Rod, the only evidence we have for the existence of a significant bisexual culture in this town is the testimony of one man, Terry Caffey. He was not a high schools student himself; this is apparently his (rather overheated) reaction to something his daughter told him. (How else would he know that some other girl wanted to be her girlfriend?)
But now we know that there is something gravely wrong with this daughter, not sexually, otherwise. So, how reliable was the tale she supposedly told her father? I wouldn't believe her if she told me the time of day.
The whole thing may be no more than evidence of her manipulating him to her own advantage. Sometimes kids will make a feint at homosexuality to rattle their parents into not objecting to out-of-line behavior with members of the opposite sex, on the theory that the parents will be so relieved that it's a boy this time that their vigilance will lapse. As indeed seems to have happened.
O.k I should be working on stuff for my master, however now that i've read Rods post @ 2204 I get where he's coming from.
Rod, you need a mulligan on the blog post. I don't think you were clear enough, and hence your getting static on a subject you didn't intend to address.
Small town can have very interesting skeletons in the the collective closets. A town where I grew up was notorious for swinging parties, mind you, this town had a population of less than 5K, and this was in the early 70's. It was a town with over 66 churches (most some variant of baptist) that were well attended, and an overall, at least outwardly and still is a very conservative mind set.
Neither bi-sexuality nor homeschooling were at play in this horror.
Well, we don't know if either is true, but presumably we'll learn more from further installments in this story. But again, I'm not saying bisexuality had anything to do with the murders. This could have been a story about tomato-growing in rural East Texas, and if it had had that comment, I would have been startled by it.
I find it really quite amazing that I can say over and over till I'm blue in the face that I don't believe bisexuality is worse than murder, nor do I assert that bisexuality has anything to do with this murder, that in fact my sole point in posting this was to say, "Wow, who knew that there was a bisexual culture among teens in a tiny Texas town? What does that say about the broader culture today?" I can say that till I'm blue in the face, and some of you will be so in love with your own sense of outrage that you won't listen to me.
And I am saying that your reading so much into one person's comment reveals your poor judgment and paranoia in any discussion of homosexuality, and that your lack of knowledge about homosexuality in mainstream culture generally makes your constant posting about it ignorant and irresponsible. There's nothing shocking about a little bit of teen aspirational bisexuality.
Rod,
as one of your more conservative readers, I really suggest you delete this post. you are going to save yourself a lot of trouble. The people commenting aren't acting in "bad faith". Its just part of the "enlightened" philosophy, whenever someone mentions the word homosexual and violence in the same sentence a complete freakout is the only response you are going to get. its prerational, nuance isn't really possible.
btw this is a case in point why you shouldn't be "going after" Rush. the people you think you are going to reason with and convince will slam you if you ever disagee with them.
Reading the comments, what on earth is wrong with some of you?
We are wondering that about you.
I'm not saying bisexuals killed that family.
You went to an awful lot of trouble to conflate the two disparate themes...and boldfaced the bisexual quote to boot. Not to mention you made that the headline of the story. This is beyond disingenuous.
Good grief. It's obvious that the murderers include the daughter and her boyfriend.
So you had to play up the bisexual thing, even though it really wasn't particularly germane to the story....
The bisexuality thing was a mere aside that I found more startling than the murders, given the small-town culture where this crime took place.
And there is nothing like conflating bisexuals with a grisly home invasion/mass homicide to make your point, right?
I freely admit that I am out of touch with teenage culture today.
The first accurate statement you have made thus far. Be careful! You wouldn't want to make a habit of it!
If you're bound and determined to conclude that I think bisexuality is worse than murder, you're completely wrong, and you're willfully misreading my post for whatever reason.
You sure seem to have fooled an awful lot of us, then. Am I gonna believe you, or my lyin' eyes, right?
Again, you conflate the two themes deliberately, and boldface the most salacious (and unrelated) trope in the story: someone made a bisexual pass at the daughter.
Murder and bisexuals. Bisexuals and murder. I don't want my kids to be like the murderous bisexual kids.
Then you tell us it's our fault for making the connection you seem to want us to make. This on top of saying that you found the only shocking bit of information was the bisexual inuendo. Never mind the gruesome and horrible killing, which was not at all shocking, I guess...
Color me unconvinced.
At least understand what you're doing, and the bad faith in which you're doing it.
Yep.
Rod,
My views on many issues are closer to yours, apparently, than many of the above commenters. But I am saddened but not surprised by such things happening in a small town in East Texas. I have lived in Indianapolis for the last 3 years, but for 15 years before that lived in a rural Indiana county across the state line from Cincinnati, Ohio. Thanks to cable tv and satellite dishes, kids in the country and small towns are just as exposed to degeneracy as kids in the big cities--traditional morality is declining in the country, too, and it can be even harder to find a good church in a rural area. The small-town schoolteachers, too, have mostly been trained in the same colleges, taught the same pedagogical garbage (I have a degree in education).
To those who will take offense at my use of the term "degeneracy"--for thousands of years, there have been certain behaviors that the majority of cultures have considered "degenerate", and wherever a culture did tolerate them they caused that culture to decline. The Greeks tolerated sexual deviancy and ended up under Roman rule. After the Romans accepted the Greeks' practices, they survived mainly by recruiting their soldiers and eventually their rulers, from first the outer provinces and eventually the barbarians outside their borders. Europe and the US are declining a lot faster than the Romans did.
Utterly freaking tone deaf of you, Rod, and you just keep digging yourself deeper.
You put your foot in it, and have been rightly taken to task for sloppy, sensational writing on this post.
Small towns are not the utopias you wish they were, and bisexuality is more shocking than murder. Your cynicism is unmatched.
Not outraged, I just think you didn't communicate as well as you usually do. I think the bulk of the responses you've received are evidence of that.
I was being facetious about the homeschooling. I was home schooled myself.
I do have a large measure of skepticism about their being a strong culture of bi-sexuality in this small town. More likely, his daughter was making a derogatory comment about a girl who wanted to befriend her, who desire for friendship was not reciprocated.
I am not shocked about the potential for a bi-sexual sub culture in a small town anymore than I am surprised to hear nearly everyone I encounter speak with the same washed out accent. Mass media has erased some of our localism, the things that make people who come from the same region unique.
The broader culture has become much more broad through mass media.
what is wrong with you? this is an amazing post and your pathetic attempt to explain yourself has cast you in an even worse light. the homosexual aspect of the story is the last thing that i think about when i read this story.
BTW, I was shocked to learn some time ago that in my own hometown in the Seventies, a significant coterie of young adults of my parents' generation were into swinging, and key parties. Tiny Louisiana town.
Phil Hawkins - Care to explain how correlation implies causation?
Rod just needs more coffee, and so do I. I think his 2204 post clarifies a bit better.
Andrew, do you have your own blog by any chance?
Something tells me that it's probably only considered cool to be a bisexual girl.
First of all, aren't most people naturally bisexual to some degree? So what's shocking about that? Second, it sure sounds to me like this so-called "bisexual culture" in small-town East Texas is about girls (who reach physical/sexual maturity younger than boys) trying to impress boys with their "I kissed a girl" sexual behavior.
I think you don't understand much about life in American small towns for the last 50 to 100 years, where the lack of things to do drives young people to do all kinds of things, but especially sex, drinking and drugs (most meth labs are in the rural American heartland).
So, wow, some kinds are acting out sexually in a small town. When was this news?
What's shocking is that you would find sexuality itself more shocking than murder.
What evidence, from this story, exists that "there's a bisexual culture in [an E. Texas town], among the teenagers?" We have the unverified statement of the father--nothing else. On this point, the odd issue seems to be that a major newspaper would have allowed such a claim to be included an article, without some followup from school authorities.
Who was bisexual, Erin or the mother? Was that the reason they were shot? Was it an honor killing like the Muslims do? We just had 4 people killed over in Hueytown, AL ythe other night. It was all over the local news. People totally shocked about killing people. Especially if it is for religious reasons. That man in upstate New York just beheaded his wife and it made all the networks.
"When you get federal money and federal mandates to hold classroom sessions teaching children that sexual expression and experimentation are totally acceptable for them to try out (so long as they paid attention during that condom/banana hands-on workshop), you're quickly going to see kids deciding which alternative lifestyles are "cool" or need to be emulated."
Oh Erin, what an utter load of c--p. This is small, town, backwoods Texas. Those kids are lucky if they are getting any sex education at all, between the coerced Jesus praryers and teaching of Creationism in biology class that are likely taking place at the school.
This is a story about cultural breakdown, but it's not the culture of sex education and roving bands of of bisexuals. It's cultural breakdown in White, rural Texas, the heart of the Bible belt. It's about a troubled girl who no one appeared to help, but instead just isolated her more.
After the Romans accepted the Greeks' practices, they survived mainly by recruiting their soldiers and eventually their rulers, from first the outer provinces and eventually the barbarians outside their borders. Europe and the US are declining a lot faster than the Romans did.
Did you just make this stuff up, or did you hear it in church?
You certainly didn't get it from any Classical History or Western Civ course.
1."Greek Practices" were not at all uniform in any social sense. Spartans tended to be ascetic and authoritarian. Athenians were radical democrats. There were pronounced differences between many of the city states. Curiously, Athens was far more misogynistic than Sparta. Sexual mores were not uniform by any means.
2.The Romans took to recruiting "barbarian" mercenaries because of uncontrolled inflation. Mercs were cheaper. If you buy them off, they are not so likely to cause problems on your frontier, also. Of course, that doesn't seem as interesting in church when the preacher wants to make a comparison between Roman depravity and modern America...
3.The depravity of later rulers like Tiberius and Caligula were inevitably checked by the populace and the military. Tiberius was a murderous pedophile, and was killed by his own guards for his defilement of Roman social demands. Caligula met the same fate. The power of the Emperor was not as complete as some may have thought...and the Emperor could always be replaced...
4.Folks who like to use Roman decline as a trope for American problems always fail to note that the Empire was Christian for centuries after Constantine. (The Western half of the Empire more or less imploded in the fifth century, while the Eastern half of the Empire lasted until the fifteenth century, I believe.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_the_Roman_Empire
And what would you do, Mr. Dreher, if one of your children came home to you in your very moral Texas town and announced to you that he or she was, in fact, a homosexual? Would we be treated to a post detailing the decadent nature of your home life?
Ah, so that's where the traffic is coming from -- Andrew Sullivan linked to this post, calling my point of view "clinical." So it must be to someone with his values. I think I have said five times here that murder is incomparable to bisexuality in terms of moral meaning, but why let that clarification get in the way of a good snit? The point of my post was not that one thing is worse than the other, but that I personally found one thing more shocking than the other. Shocking, in the sense of being surprised by something.
From my point of view, both are violations of the moral order. Murder is unspeakably worse, but I am not surprised to find that in small towns (alas). I would be, and was, surprised to find the claim that bisexuality was trendy in a tiny Texas town's high school. This post was entirely about how little I know about teenage culture today, and its sexual mores.
One thing I do know about is how Andrew writes about people who disagree with him on sexual matters. So I'm not surprised, but I am grateful for the extra traffic.
"BTW, I was shocked to learn some time ago that in my own hometown in the Seventies, a significant coterie of young adults of my parents' generation were into swinging, and key parties. Tiny Louisiana town."
Flash forward, 2009: Whatever we do, let's not tell Rod about AdultFriendfinder. One five-mile-radius search from said town in the category of his choice, and within minutes: "Uncle Fred? Aunt Peg? Cousin Leo? Pastor McGillicuddy??? Sister Mary?" as he towels the Pilsner Urquell off his monitor. Welcome to the real world of Lousiana, and every other parish, town, burg and hamlet in Hornytown, USA. If the family jewels could talk, your ears would make Arthur Brown's "Fire" headress look like a child's first birthday candle...
@Phil Hawkins:
Thanks to cable tv and satellite dishes, kids in the country and small towns are just as exposed to degeneracy as kids in the big cities
And country kids don't have parents who manage their exposure to this "degeneracy?" You know what I do when I don't want my kids to watch something? I turn it off. Problem solved. And it helps to not have cable or satellite TV, where kids are forced to do things like, say, read a book or play sports or have a conversation. Sure, I can't hermetically seal my kids off from the wicked world at large, but I can surely control what permeates the most important and influential environment my kids inhabit: their home.
Mr.Dreher,I think you need to get out more. You certainly need to self educate before you pontificate on rural Texas culture.
Just to clarify, while I do think Rod's post is in very bad taste, I do not think it is so because Rod is trying deliberately to conflate bisexuality and murder.
I simply think that it is in bad taste to use the report of a murder as the incidental pretext for discussing the topic of teenage bisexual chic.
Doing so is disrespectful to the people who were murdered.
It desecrates their memories in a way, however unintended the offense may have been on Rod's part.
And the notion of bisexual chic -- "even" in a small town in Texas -- is no where near surprising, let alone "shocking" enough to justify the offense, however unintended.
Small towns -- in several of which I have lived and in one of which I grew up -- are characterized in moral terms *less* by the absence of vices pandemic in the culture as a whole and *more* by the presence or persistence of certain virtues that have, unfortunately, waned in the culture as a whole.
If anything, kids in small towns are under unusual pressure to conform to the "vicious" as opposed to the "virtuous" norms of the culture as a whole, subjected as they are to constant shaming by said culture as "backward" hicks, rubes, rednecks, etc. and made to feel that their lives mean less, instead of more, because they live outside the metropolitan-imperial core from which such shaming emanates.
Again, all of this is interesting and merits conversation.
Just not right now.
Instead, let's pray for the souls of those who were killed and for the loved ones they leave behind.
Erin:
sadly, our culture which pushes all sorts of alternative lifestyles at high school age children is thriving even in small towns, so it's not particularly shocking to me that one small town would be known for its "bisexual" culture.
Really? How so?
By telling kids that if they are actually gay, then they are still worthwhile people? Allowing gay/straight alliances on campus?
What a perfectly horrible thought! Closeted, depressed gay kids are so much more comforting for the parents...so long as you keep a close watch on the medicine cabinet and the razor blades.
I'm going to turn the comments off on this thread tonight -- not going to be here to monitor the trolls. Back on tomorrow.
Sir, it is not that those commenting fail to understand you; it's that they do understand you and are horrified by what you are saying. Teenagers have sex with one another, and sometimes they do things with both boys and girls. This is not a shocker; what is shocking is that you are shocked to discover that it might happen anywhere, even in a location you consider insulated from it. That's the point: no place is insulated from it. Wherever people are, whatever religion, location, or culture, they will have bisexual sex.
By contrast, although people do kill each other, it is very unusual--vastly more unusual and therefore more shocking--that a child would kill her own parents and siblings. The fact that you don't see this is what is shocking the rest of us now! Seriously, think about it just from an "odds" perspective for a moment.
I've opened a new post to continue this topic, and want to redirect readers to it. Go here to continue this thread...
Comments on this one closed again.