Crunchy Con

Gallup poll: Catholics more unorthodox than Protestants

Friday April 3, 2009

This is a distressing new Gallup poll. It shows that churchgoing Catholics are far more likely to approve of moral behavior (sex between unmarried people, homosexuality, etc.) that their church deems immoral than are churchgoing Protestants.

This is a conundrum to me, one I thought about a lot when I was a Catholic, and troubled over. Why is it that Catholics have a Pope and a Magisterium -- a clear teaching authority -- as well as a complex, coherent and profoundly intellectual moral theology ... and yet these things, which ought to give it a tremendous advantage in maintaining the obedience of its flock, avail the Catholic Church little? It shouldn't be that way, logically, but it is in practice.

Lee Podles, an orthodox Catholic, has some thoughts.

[I wish I didn't have to say this, but I do: this is not an anti-Catholic post, but rather intended to spark discussion on various reasons why this poll found the things it did. As someone who would like to raise my children to believe in what my faith teaches, I'd like to know what works, and what doesn't. Anybody who tries to derail the thread by making specious claims of anti-Catholicism will find their posts unpublished. So don't even start.]

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Comments
Turmarion
April 5, 2009 10:05 AM

Excellent blog post, Hector! I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the anaology with non-nutritive eating!

Matthew
April 5, 2009 5:38 PM
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/frjosiah-trenham-talks-to-clergy-about-confession-and-repentance.aspx

Dear Jon,

Peace be with you. You responded to my post concerning the Eucharist saying thus:

"This was, frankly, a corruption of the faith. Communion is meant to be received by all the faithful, and in the very early Church it was. The withholding of the Sacrament from the faithful (and of the Blood from the laity in general in the West) was a serious ecclesial error- I would even say a sin. I can't recall whether the Catholic Church has the quit the same teaching concerning the efficacy of the Eucharist, but in the East it is empahsized in the Liturgy, and in the Communion prayer we all say, that the Eucharist is itself THE medicinal tonic for the effects of sin. It is not, and was never intended, as a reward for good behavior."

I suppose in the end we will need to agree to disagree about elements of what each of us wrote, since by tomorrow, this blog will no longer be in vogue and we will both probably have moved on to other topics.

I wish to clarify, and agree with you, that frequent reception of Holy Communion should indeed be the norm, even daily, if possible. Yet, I (yet not I, but the Fathers) contend that to receive the Holy Mysteries, one must be both prepared and healthy. In addition, the following continues to be the norm for parishes in ROCOR: "Those who are preparing for Holy Communion are obliged to read three canons and one akathist the evening before" (Jordanville Prayerbook).

I think St. Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain sums up the point I was attempting to make: "Thus if you sin: with confession you remove the worms, and with penance you cut away what is putrid, and follow this with Holy Communion which becomes the ointment, and you are healed. For if he is not given Holy Communion, the wretched sinner will return to his former state and, in the end, will become someone who is worse than before (Matthew 12:45)."

I believe this is the point Fr. Josiah Trenham makes (see link above for the presentation he gave on this topic): that often times penances today are not "cutting away what is putrid", but actually allowing the cancer to grow as the penitent is likely unable to see the gravity of the sin committed based on the penance. Quite frankly, its disordered and an abuse of the sacrament. The goal here PRIOR to communion is the spiritual health of the penitent.

It would do all of us well to remember, that receiving communion is not a "right", but rather a privelege that the Lord gives us through the ministry of the Church. Let us tremble at taking fire, lest be be consumed as wax and grass.

-Matthew

crossdotcurve
April 5, 2009 6:41 PM

Interesting that posts which mention uncomfortable facts don't get listed...

Jon
April 5, 2009 10:09 PM

Re: Yet, I (yet not I, but the Fathers) contend that to receive the Holy Mysteries, one must be both prepared and healthy.

Yes, that is true, and I do not disagree. Obviously (I hope) I am not suggesting that active sinners like, say, a practicing abortionist, should receive Communion. They shouldn't. But if we are talking about those who have confessed themselves and who approach the chalice acknowledging the Body and Blood, then I can conceive of no reason the Church ought refuse them. That ROCOR or some Latin-mass Catholic Church, or the medievals in general, have invented extra burdens to lay on the faithful to prevent them from receiving Christ is, IMO, a rather grave error, even a sin, and I would not care to explain to the Lord at judgment why I sought to keep the faithful apart from Him. And once again: we do not, cannot, make ourselves worthy of Him. He's already done that part for us. All that is required is that we seek Him willingly. As for penance, I have been taught that penance is not a judicial punishment for sin, that we must pay a fine or serve a sentence as if we had broken a secular law. No, as soon as the priest pronounces absolution the sin is gone, we should turn our back on it too, and no one else (certainly not the Church) ought hold it against us either. Penance is rather a spiritual exercize intended to strengthen us. True, many penances fall short of that goal; but none of that has to do with receiving Communion. Assuming one has not used the interim to commit fresh grave sins, then one who approaches the chalice after confessing (like one who approaches it after baptism) is free of sin.

Anon
October 18, 2009 12:37 PM

To understand this, perhaps you need to distinguish between belief and action. For example, the idea of divorce may be more acceptable to Catholics than to Protestants, yet Catholics divorce at a rate significantly less than Protestants. So, perhaps, Catholics live their faith more but accept that other people may not be able to. This would explain the discrepancy.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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