Metropolitan Jonah: Ecumenical Patriarch back off!

Doesn't it seem even a mite unseemly to crow with such obvious pride at yet one more split in the body of Christ? One more demonstration of American unilateralism? Apparently, even our Orthodox are proud of telling those foreign Orthodox folk to "kiss our aspergers."

JPL--I'm not expert on Orthodoxy, but the implication here I think is that the Orthodox Church in American has a right to its own ecclesial organization, or patriarchate.

I say this under the assumption that Orthodox ecclesiology presumes a much greater deal of decentralization than in the Catholic Church. Thus, I'm not really sure that you correctly term this a "split."

I only wish the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Russian Patriarch would stop meddling in the business of Eastern Catholics in Ukraine. They're Catholic, not Orthodox, so stop all these petty threats about cutting off ecumenical relations with the Vatican if they are granted their own patriarchate.

One would think that there are more important things to worry about in Eastern Europe and Russia.

I took 23 minutes to listen to this. What a powerful message!

It's interesting that the Ecumenical Patriarchate is following the lead of the papacy in at least one respect: the definition of papal infallibility by the First Vatican Council coincided with the pope's loss of temporal authority with the seizure of the Papal States and the establishment of the Italian State. In other words, his loss of temporal authority in Italy was countered by an assertion of spiritual authority within the entire Church In a somewhat similar way, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is perhaps trying to make up for its increasingly precarious position in Istanbul by reasserting the primacy (loaded word, I know) of its authority within the Orthodox world.

Houghton,
Still, come and see. In comparison to what has happened throughout our history this is a small squabble. Bishops will be Bishops. But the Church and the Faith remain.

For some reason, this reminds me of a title for one of the best things written about the Iraq war that has nothing to do with Iraq or that particular war: "Bureaucracy Does Its Thing" by Robert Komer. So the church bureaucracy will do its thing and we should try not to get too distracted, though this kind of dustup will be fun to watch.

I'm also reminded of when I went through Catechumen's class and mentioned to the priest that I what I was really interested in was learning the criteria for becoming an Orthodox Christian, not what it would take to become a Russian wannabe.

Houghton,

I can only second what other folks have said above. Bishops come and go. At their best they are good shepherds and at their worst they are a shameful source of scandal, but for better and for worse they are not the Church, only the tip of the iceberg. Unless your parish is a cathedral, like Rod's, you will probably only see the bishop once a year anyway. Our bishop is a wonderful, godly man and I wish we saw more of him than his yearly episcopal visit, but there it is. Ultimately, our parish is a family, and we grow or fall together in faith. The bishop has a role to play in this, of course, but he's not the practical center of my spiritual life.

Someone once said to me that a difference between the Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church is that if you ask a Catholic, "Who represents the Church?" he will answer, "the Pope," whereas if you ask an Orthodox the same question he will answer, "the monks." This is a generalization, of course, but I think there is more than a grain of truth here. If you're looking for a visible icon of the Orthodox faith, don't look at the bishops, look at the monastics. BTW, I hope folks will understand I don't mean this to be a slam against Catholics. I personally find what they have in the Papacy to be quite enviable. I mean it only as a rough description of one of the most salient differences between the two communions and how they constitute authority.

Makes sense to me - then again, I'm a Presbyterian, so what do I know.

I hope, Joseph, that you're not implying that we laity shouldn't care--or stay informed about, the current scandalous state of Orthodoxy in its jurisdictional mess on this continent. The face that we present here in North America is utterly confusing to those outside the Church and ultimately, people will not find the Church (and thus, the presence of Christ in Her) as long things remain the way they are. When we became Orthodox, a good friend said, "Why would I want to become Orthodox when the Orthodox in my city don't even speak to each other?" I go to a vibrant, English speaking Greek parish; sadly, most people in our town would never darken our door because of the "Greek" designation on the sign out front. Over half the people in our church aren't even Greek; all of us are Americans. Why can't it say, St. ______ American Orthodox Church? Well, because my priest ultimately is under the thumb of a Patriarch on the other side of the world. Our blithe indifference is something we need to renounce; Metropolitans like His Beatitude need our support as we work at the local level for the same unity he so courageously espouses on the national stage.

Sorry, I'm Your Name from 10:19

More humility required, Metr. Jonah. I'm sorry, but we Americans have to understand that our, peculiarly American, contribution to world religion is extremist Evangelicalism (a la Pat Robertson, and John Hagee) and Mormonism. Not a very reassuring record. I would even say that, religiously, we are a failed culture, and that we need guidance from abroad. It is worrisome that neophytes, from God knows what religious backgrounds, enter into the Church and then say, "Leave us alone, you, we'll run it ourselves the 'American' way!" Doesn't inspire confidence...

"What difference does it make if we're united under the Ecumenical Patriarch?" Friend, if I wanted a bishop with universal jurisdiction, I would have become a Catholic. Benedict XVI has deeper and better theological chops than Bartholomew, anyway. And Istanbul is not "the home of the Church", Jerusalem is. I'm sorry for the persecution inflicted by the Turks, but cannot see what Bartholomew's asserted jurisdiction over the "barbarian lands" of the New World would do to make the Turks play nice. This is all about money, your name. The GOA keeps the Ecumenical Patriarchate afloat, and he is interested in deepening the revenue stream. He's the bishop of a church with 3000 people in a city that was the capital of a long-dead empire, for Pete's sake! He has no more claim to jurisdiction over American Orthodox than Frank Zappa.

The "universal jurisdiction" charge is a straw man. America being put under the EP for a little while until it solidifies as a jurisdiction would mean that the American Church would be going the same route as many an other Orthodox Church (e.g. the Russias, Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece, and Albania). The precendent is definitely there. And it is not Universal Jurisdiction, which is a completely other animal. Let's ease off this nationalist jingoism and vitriolic hatred for the historic Orthodox institutions. Say what we will about the "foreign Churches," at least they preserved Orthodoxy. Our culture, on the other hand, did not. Some humility is in order.

BTW, my comment on the "vitriolic hatred" etc. was directed not at +Jonah, but at some of the comments here. Peace.

Here's what priests much wiser than me always tell me:

When whales (the bishops) wrestle, the shrimp (us laity) sometimes get squished. It's best for us, especially at this time of year, to let the bishops argue such things which don't concern our day-to-day life in Christ, and focus on working out our own salvation.

And to Houghton - Orthodoxy's a lot like a big family. We fight and squabble and argue a lot. Yet at the end of the day the family stays together, we eventually make up, we pray for each other, and we always still love each other. And we always share the same Faith.

Scott & others, in the spirit of Tom's message above (thank you, Tom), sorry for my comments. I do not want to appear unkind to people who clearly love Orthodoxy as much as you guys do. If the Orthodox heads are going to get together June in Cyprus, as +Jonah says, I'd like to see what they come up with before opening my mouth. A blessed Pascha to all.

Thanks be to God!

The Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople is the first among equals in honor, but has no authority beyond his shrinking bishopric. He is not the equivalent of the Roman Catholic pope--Christ alone is the Head of the Church. To have him "rule" over the American Orthodox is a ridiculous proposal, which seems to be based on self-preservation rather than adherence to the canons and proper church practice. We should always support each of our sister jurisdications in whatever way possible for love of Christ's Church, but we cannot function in America as dependents of a foreign power thousands of miles away, who cannot fully appreciate our culture and mission here.

I think the use of the word "compound" as a descriptor for the church complex that the EP resides in is pretty inappropriate, considering how it conjures up images of festering cultists on the verge of mass suicide. Its a loaded term, and certainly disrespectful in this context.

In the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ; Please allow me to submit the following; There is a canonical American Orthodox Church in existence, it is the American Orthodox Church/North American Orthodox Church, it encompasses several Orthodox communions, we are established in the United states, Canada and Mexico. We would love to be in communion with all Orthodox in the world but especially in the United States, all members of other Orthodox jurisdictions are allowed in communion with us, we would like to be accepted to all others as well. You may contact me for an initial contact if you would like by writing to me at: fathermichael.fathermichael1@gmail.com

In Christ,
Fr. Michael Valentine (Sweet)

+ Jonah is absolutely correct! In Orthodox Canon Law, no where does it say that foreign bishops control local churches - in fact, this concept is condemned. Local churches are under the authority of local bishops. The Orthodox do not have an "Eastern Pope." We do not believe in one, sole, supreme bishop to rule over all the Orthodox worldwide. The Orthodox in North America already have an indigenous, autocephalous Orthodox Church and under Orthodox canon law, ALL Orthodox Churches are to come under it's authority. The non-canonical status of the Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Antiochian Orthodox etc. needs to be rectified. It really is time for ALL the Orthodox in North America to unite and rule themselves. The canons are clear; now it's time to follow them!

Observator, Peace, my bother. A blessed Lent and a glorious Pascha to you and your family. We'll sort this out, maybe by the 30th century, but we will sort this out.

The above comment by Your Name (April 7, 2009 12:53 PM) was posted by me, Abouna Gregori.

Thanks to those who provided some additional insight on this. I didn't intend for my comments to indicate that I'm abandoning my pursuit of inquiry into Orthodoxy because of this recent war of words.

I'm not. But this very human squabbling is discouraging, nonetheless.

And let me offer some additional perspective: the confusion I referred to earlier has to do with my own spiritual course, two roads, that kind of thing.

I entered into a nondenominational evangelical house church some time ago after becoming a Christian from a "mere Christianity" point of view. I am constantly tempted toward a generous "unity in the essentials" style of theological thinking, but that ecumenism is not the same as wholehearted agreement on the details of the non-essentials. While theology should not be the focus of our faith, as my theological understanding has started to deepen, I've come to understand that I came into my house church as a new believer, free of any certain set of expectations beyond being "simply Christian."

My own open attitude has recently come head to head with a growing embrace of a movement within evangelical circles that has a distinct set of attitudes, expectations and behaviors.

Having repeatedly read Lewis' "Screwtape Letters" as mitigation against tendencies to judge others' faith, or to look for the "perfect church," I'm constantly questioning and checking myself.

But I'm finding that vast portions of American evangelicalism -- including my own church -- are rapidly embracing a neo-Charismatic movement known broadly as "prophetic evangelism."

I have found this movement to be filled with false teaching and worse.

Google it for yourself. Check out Youtube videos of Patricia King or the Lakeland Revival, as just two examples.

It's a little bit like going on the Web to research an illness and coming away with the worst-case scenario, but I think what you'll find may leave you shaken.

At some point, Rod may want to take a look at it, because I feel confident that it is hitting the Dallas-Fort Worth area right now. This will sound overly negative, but it can't be helped: Prophetic evangelism is a wave moving through evangelical churches primarily because people are bored and looking for a "new move of God" when they should be focusing on the "old move" of God instead -- the bottom line is that they have left the fundamentals of the faith, and that unmooring has caused boredom, spiritual confusion, an embrace of emotionalism and a drift toward frankly New Age thinking.

And let this serve as something of a warning for others out there: My church did not have this characteristic when I began attending. It has only recently developed.

I can't tell you how painful this is to watch and be immersed in. Most of our dear friends in our church have no idea that I feel this way, or certainly about the agonizing and praying I've been doing around it. I've kept my peace about it, after initially raising concerns. Fortunately, a wise Orthodox priest recently told me that one should never despise our past, and that any experience which leads one to the Truth is beneficial. I have found this to be a comfort.

To be in a place where I am now considering becoming an Orthodox catechumen and moving my family in this direction is not only startling and remarkable, thrilling and hopeful, it is also to contemplate damaged friendships and broken fellowship (and precisely at this time as I approach this Y in the road, the EP and Metropolitan Jonah decide to engage in an intercontinental war of words!)

The war of words is an excellent reminder to me that I must proceed with caution, that I must take my responsibility of fellowship with my current congregation very seriously indeed, and that I must continue to wait on God.

On the one hand, you can see that I am repelled away from the doctrinal laxity, lack of Scriptural understanding, lack of participation in sacraments, New Age-style worship and emotionalism that seems to be pervading American evangelicalism in ever-increasing waves. I think you're going to find increasing numbers of American evangelicals who are feeling lost and disturbed by this trend, because it is taking off like wildfire.

On the other hand, I have been positively attracted to the "scent of holiness" around tradition in Orthodoxy, the embrace of regular sacramental participation, and the recognition of the need for liturgy -- long before the wave of "prophetic evangelism" began to crash into my house church.

To be clear, my concerns about the prophetic evangelism movement and my exploration of Orthodoxy have been two different things. I began tentatively looking into Orthodoxy before my church began to embrace this wave of "neo-Pentecostalism." But these two distinct tracks have recently begun to converge as matters have become more overt.

As I have explored the rich vein of tradition in the ancient faith, I've felt both shamed that I disregarded it in the past and awed by the treasure of it. I'm wary of being overly critical of American Protestant evangelicalism or Roman Catholicism, because there are faithful Christians everywhere, all of them abiding in Christ.

But there's an ever-widening gulf between my own understanding of Scripture and the so-called "prophetic evangelism" movement (it's also variously been referred to as "apostolic revival," "signs and wonders" and other terms -- the brand name seems to shift a lot, but it's essentially the same thing).

So this dark night I am currently moving through is why, above all, I find this squabbling difficult to take. I myself want to be sympathetic to Metropolitan Jonah, but that's because I'm an American and because I found the lengthy diatribe written by the representative of the Ecumenical Patriarch to have all of the earmarks of spewing forth from a whitewashed tomb. But even as much as I want to be sympathetic to Metropolitan Jonah, I'm unsettled by the argumentative tone -- and even the hostility -- especially right now during Lent.

Loudon, we Orthodox do have a boss. He is our King and our Lord, Jesus Christ. We also have local bishops, to whom we owe our loyalty and obedience as long as they are faithful the the Faith Once Given. If they go off the reservation, which has, sadly, been a pretty frequent occurrence, it is our duty as the people of God to either set them right or to ignore them, which has happened multiple times in the past. The laos has the ultimate veto over the bishops. See the aftermath of the Council of Florence for one example. This model of ecclesiology makes for a noisy and a slow process, and change consequently takes a very long time. We think that is mostly a Good Thing. A blessed Holy Week (I assume you're a Western Christian) and Easter to you.

As usual, the ego is well established in the likes of William Harrington and all those who embrace him and his teachings.

Let us all remember the words of that wonderful 20th century artist "Truth exists, lies are created" Ethnic diversity is what makes America great. If we eliminate our Ethnicity, then we eliminate the foundation of America as a whole. Look at our society - we are turning into a socialist state. When are we going to stop picking at differences and "live and let live" Who cares what ethnicity you are and who cares what language you speak - this is America! If you don't like the language in one orthodox church, then simply to go another orthodox church. Seriously, get a life. But don't have the arrogance and self derived righteousness to ask people to change who they are because of some "committee" and their "concensus" on what the majority believe should happen. Remember, the "majority" decided to crucify Christ; The "majority" decided to kill martyrs; The majority decided that segregation was good.

Chrysostom reminds us that the branches and leaves on trees exists to help nourish and feed it's root system, not to break off as some random branch and fall to the ground. And as the example of children leaving home - how many "adult" children live with their parents here in the 21st century?

You're right William, don't worry. Just mind you own business and leave the other Orthodox Juridscitions alone. And always remember that *this* is America - any jurisdiction can exist in any form that it's hierarchal governing body wants it to exists. Like mentioned above, if you don't like a particular jurisdiction, then leave.

I was hoping for a more measured reply from +JONAH. However,I am glad to see him saying that he doesn't think all Americans need to just submit to the OCA because they are the Autocephalous (sp?) church. I have heard that from a couple of corners.

Personally, it would not bother me to be under the Patriarch of Constantinople or the OCA synod, or the Antiochian Synod in Damascus (as I am now). But the entrenching of, "no WE are the legit authority," is disheartening. I would love to see the heads of the major jurisdictions arguing, "YOU take the miter, no YOU, no, really, YOU take it." Just someone lead, please.

Tony D, thanks.

It is kind of funny - I felt more free to blather on and on here on this thread about my faith, because I had a feeling the trolls were sort of nonplussed by the entire topic! When the post headline has the words Metropolitan, Ecumenical and Patriarch in the same phrase, it's a safe bet the trolls aren't interested!

:-)

"Leave it alone." "Back off!"

Bozhe moj! Even Archbishop Lefebvre never resorted to such vehemence and venom!

Given the firestorm attendant upon Pope Benedict's ouverture to the "schismatic" FSSPX, it has undoubtedly occurred to the Supreme Pontiff that prudence dictates a more measured approach to the building of bridges of reunion to the schismatic Orthodox. Reunion based upon historical precedents is likely to prove transitory. Indeed, it might be questioned whether there is any advantage to the Catholic Church in injecting itself into national turf wars within Orthodoxy. With whom does one reunite? Who speaks for Orthodoxy? There are no autocephalous or even autonomous churches in Catholicism.

As Metropolitain Jonah stated, "I would submit that if we wanted a Pope, we would be under the real one". Perhaps this is a ecclesiastical Freudian slip on his part, but he, in the next sentence reverts to his quondam-Episcopalian prejudice in denying it.

Cum tacet, clamat. He acknowledges however that there indeed is a de facto "real pope" but balks at the rigorously intellectual and scriptural leap to the obvious conclusion. Perhaps this is merely his poor rhetorical training. But it should caution Benedict about the chances for the success of reunification with fractious "autocephalous" schismatic institutions.

In any event, in his parleys with Bartholomew and the newly elected Kiril, Benedict may preempt the episcopal bickerings of parochial prelates. The Universal Church clearly has time on its side.

Echoing, the frantic desperate incantations from the Turkish "Government" and now Metropolitan JONAH. We understand the disguised precariousness of the OCA and pray for their resolutions. Perhaps the concerns of Metropolitan JONAH should have been properly addressed to the HOLY RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH with modesty and less hubris: Conditions to be evaluated and "determined" by the soon to be convened council of the world's Orthodox Hierarchs under the Presidency of our Suffering in Strength, the Oecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, His All Holiness BARTHOLOMEW I.

LOL! Roland, that was a mean impersonation of a deeply-up-himself member of the Franco-Papist Confession! Man, you're good!

anaxios to met. jonah. his words were immature, uniformed and insulting. he isn't going to get anywhere.

Your Name @ 2:58p 4/7:

Once again, go back to +Jonah's sermon. You'll find that he EMPHATICALLY endorses the cultural identities of the different ethnicities that represent Orthodoxy in America. He EMPHATICALLY stated that the languages, the cultures, even the potential leadership structure of a future American synod would be inclusive of these ethnicities.

The hysteria I'm seeing on both sides here is a little ridiculous. If what "Your Name" @ 5:39p 4/7 said is true, the vehemence of +Jonah's sermon makes sense. I, too, feel like he could and should have been more gracious. He painted in broader strokes than he should have (especially with - as Maria noted - his comments about leadership allowing English to be used at Liturgy).

How about we all reserve judgment on the people involved, pray for our leaders and their meetings, and respond in truth and love to the decisions that are made?

For too long we have heard voices for patience and restraint and "lets wait and see what happens." We need prayer, always, but sometimes God needs men of action. Moses was in the desert tending sheep for 40 years but it took a few plagues to get things moving. Maybe it's time we got a little stirred up and start following a leader that actually intends to do something about the problem!

I have been Orthodox all my life. I have been American all my life. My ancestors were Carpatho-Russian all their lives. They did not immigrate here to make me (their descendant) into some type of artificial Carpatho-Russian. They came here with the full intent that their children, grandchildren and great grandchildren would be a new ethnicity called "American". And I am living proof that their expectations were fulfilled. I had many wonderful childhood and young adult experiences exploring and learning about the culture of my ancestors. But it was never really MY personal culture. I didn't need it. I have a language and a culture and a national identity that I am proud of. I belong to a country that lets me live as much as an Orthodox Christian as I am willing to commit to. There is no gun to my head; and there is certainly no social pressure. As "Orthodox" as I am, is because I chose to be. I no longer hyphenate my ethnicity. I don't need to. Being American is enough.

For 20+ years I've also been a church school teacher and recently a substitute teacher in an urban school district. I am greatly disturbed by this distorted and bloated emphasis currently placed on a person's ethnic "roots". It is divisive and without purpose. My underlying efforts as a church school teacher have been to teach not only what it is to be Orthodox, but that it is natural and normal and perfectly fitting within American society to BE Orthodox.

In this effort, I take inspiration from the missionary work of Sts. Innocent and Herman, to name a few. They dedicated themselves to learning about their new surroundings so they could bring the Gospel to the people, not as something foreign, but as something of their own. The American saints didn't expect the people they found to completely adopt a foreign culture in order to become Orthodox. In fact, they worked very hard to make Orthodoxy natural and normal within the native culture.

But of course, contrary to all the Archimandrite's references to "Hellenism" (aka: Greek?), in reality Orthodox Christianity is not about any particular nationality at all. (Despite the claims of various tsars). To illustrate this, we recently did a retreat with lessons focusing on international Orthodox saints, including those from Ireland, Ethiopia and China. The point being: Orthodoxy itself has no national boundries. It's language is that of the local Orthodox community. St. Kevin's Orthodoxy did not erase that he was Irish; Sts. Moses & Tekla still lived the lives of black Africans of that time; and the Chinese were martyred because they didn't have enough time to incorporate Orthodoxy into Chinese life and make it their own. Therefore, they were considered pawns of the Russians and were martyred during the Boxer Rebellion's purge of all things foreign! Except they were in fact still Chinese and not Russian at all! They died because the "infant" Orthodox church in China was still "wrapped

Yes, Fr Christopher - it is time for the Lord to act - we just make bigger and bigger messes.

I am an American. I am one who loves many things (not all things) British. I even tend to use British spelling a lot. That America was founded on rebellion, however well we justify it, raises questions in my mind. Still, I AM American. I am not a person in diaspora. If I were to move to Britain for a while, I would be in diaspora. I am at home. I am not of Greek or Slavic or Arab descent. I speak a little Russian and understand a little more Slavonic because I love languages. That doesn't make me Russian. I am American, and I think that the lesson that the British began to learn with the American Revolution was that they really couldn't manage a world-wide empire. That empire has become a commonwealth of autonomous nations. It works.

Perhaps His Beatitude might have worded his closing statement a little differently. Instead of saying, "leave us alone" he might have said, "leave us to shown that we've grown up." I suspect that was the basic idea. As an indigenous American church, we are not toddlers, tweens, or even adolescents. We are grown children with our own home. As His Beatitude rightly said, we owe it to our spiritual parents to love them, respect them, and support them. They, at the same time, owe us the respect that allows us to manage our own household. I love and respect my mother. I seek her advice all the time; though I don't always choose to act on it as she might hope. I have an adult son. I urge him in many areas, but he doesn't always heed my suggestions. He is a man, not a little boy. I respect him as such. He has proven himself capable of making thought-out decisions. Constantinople, and the other mother churches, need to show us respect as an adult church. We are not fledglings anymore.

If others insist that we relate to them as though we were children - fledglings in "diaspora" then it is truly KAIROS - time for the Lord to act - "for Thy law has been broken."

The www.oca.org website just put up a story with a link to a new Ancient Faith Radio series of conversations with Metropolitan Jonah. In this conversation, His Beatitude continues discussing Orthodox Unity in America in a very well thought out manner. I urge all posters here to listen to this continued conversation, we we contemplate our life in Christ together in this Holy Season.

Metropolitan +Jonah is a hierarch for our times and our nation! Grant him many years O Lord!

I'm amazed at how much Orthodox unity we have here in one blog! Glory to God!

I think it's time to get out the sackcloth and ashes. Vigil anyone?

Ever since I came to this country and literally served in the OCA for six and half years(more than enough!),that was all what I heard, American Orthodoxy,Orthodox Jurisdictional Unity,some day we will all be one Orthodox Church united under an American Orthodox Patriarchate.
In Met. Jonah's speech I never heard a word of spirituality,the only proclamation that he made was preaching about American Orthodoxy, which I don't think that needs to be included in a sermon.
"American Orthodoxy", can be a subject of a Conference if you wish and it is a subject to be discussed and debated for a very long time before a decision will be made!
When Father Elpidophoros Lambrianides, gave his outstanding talk about how Orthodox Christians need to come together and mature in one jurisdiction in the USA,Met. Jonah didn't like the idea of course, because if that will happen, than they will loose control over the so called American Church(which one is that?) and as a result, he(Jonah) will not be "in charge" anymore!
No thank you,Metropolitan Jonah.we don't need you to be our "pope" here, because you need to straight-up first all the problems in your Metropolitanate, before we will even come to talk to you about American Orthodox Jurisdictional Unity.In fact you need to become Orthodox first, to understand what Orthodox Christianity is all about, before we move into further discussions!
Serbians,Moscow Patriarchate Churches,The Autonomous Romanian Archdiocese,The Ukrainian Archdiocese of America,The Carpatho-Russian Diocese of America and even ROCOR, don't want you to be their leader,not even the Antiochians, not to talk about the Greeks!
Archbishop Nathaniel, doesn't care for your leadership either, since his Diocese is an Autonomous Diocese within the OCA!
So please be so kind and make sure "you back-off!" and if you want Orthodox Unity in North America,thaen please be so kind and follow the Canonical procedure!
Father Elpidophoros,already gave you a friendly and paternal advice, conveying the message of His All Holiness Bartholomew the Ist Patriarch of Constantinople,of what is the healthiest way to make the so called American Orthodox Church, to become some day an Autocephalos Patriarchate, but you(Met. Jonah) refuse any "submission" to any of the "Mother Churches!", because you are too proud to accept that there's "Greater Orthodox Administrative Authority" in the Orthodox Church in America!If you give up your power now, imagine what is going to happen!
Even the title of "Metropolitan of All America and Canada!" is a very questionable and confusing one, is Met. Jonah, "The Only Metropolitan!" in "America(which America,North or South?)and Canada?"he may be, but I don't think so!
A Blessed Holy Pascha to all!

That's right Gorgona, I totally agree with you, they confuse "The American Freedom!" with The freedom of God, with the Canon law of The Church!They want to create an environment here similar to the so called "American evangelicalism", which is collapsed, by the way!
This so called OCA, will be, if it is going to move in the present direction, a schismatic sect or cult, that can create big problems and damage pretty heavy the Spirit of Holy Orthodoxy,The One,Holy,Catholic and Apostolic Church!
The so called Met.Jonah, has no clue of what Orthodoxy is all about, not to talk about Canon Law,canonical procedures,etc.!
May the Lord God, have mercy on him and on the OCA too, to help them see The Truth and to repent, now that we are in the Holy Week, for their terrible sin, of being ignorant,"lukewarm" as Saint Apostle Paul says!
May God bless the Ecumenical Patriarch and Patriarchate, to be able to help Jonah and his " schismatic with heretic tendencies clique"
to see the Light and and become truly Orthodox!
A Holy and Blessed Pascha to all!

Mr. Sanidopoulos's response hinges on an expansive application of Canon 28 that +Philip and others have ably refuted. I say 'application' because the plain language of the Canon is specific to a particular time and place. No 'interpretation' can make it otherwise:

"Consequently, the metropolitans and they alone of the dioceses of Pontus, Asia and Thrace, as well as the bishops among the barbarians of the aforementioned dioceses, are to be ordained by the previously mentioned very holy see of the very holy Church of Constantinople; ..."

At the very least, the EP's reading of this Canon has been rejected by the other Patriarchates by their very act of retaining jurisdiction over their respective archdioceses in the Americas and elsewhere.

Bottom line, this is all about overseas Patriarchates that are struggling to cope with demographic free fall.

Metropolitan Jonah is so right! The OCA is the orginal Orthodox Church of North America, the descendant of the 1794 mission to Alaska, the church which produced such saints as St.Innocent, St.Alexis Toth, and so many others.

I am an Orthodox convert from Roman Catholicism. I am sorely grieved by the petty infighting I see so often in the church. There have been times when I have been so discouraged by this kind of bickering that I have stopped going to the liturgy, and have even doubted whether I should have remained Roman Catholic, because at least they still follow the canonical order of "one bishop to one city", and are members of a worldwide fellowship. I remain Orthodox because I love the beauty and theological integrity of the divine services and because I cannot accept certain Roman doctrines like papal infallibility or the Western church's legalistic viewpoint.

I admire Metropolitan Jonah for his honesty, and while some of his words could be considered uncharitable ( as he himself said on the OCA website) he was no doubt frustrated at the Ecumenical Patriarch's refusal to consider the OCA's legitimate autocephaly. I fully understand where he is coming from and I am very impressed by the strong pastoral leadership he has already shown in his few months as our Metropolitan.

CHRIST IS RISEN FROM THE DEAD--GLORIFY HIM!

I am a Greek Orthodox Christian from Athens, but I have to recognize that Metropolitan Jonas is absolutely right! The Patriarchate of Constantinople is interested only into remaining in Constantinople/Istanbul, so it depends on the Patriarch's public relations. The clergymen in Phanar cannot realize that Orthodox people in America, in Europe, or even in Greece, have the right to have their own synod and that they are not obliged even by Orthodox canon law to be administered by an "Eastern Pope" surrounded by a synod of bishops without flock and under constant Turkish pressure.

I try not to get involved in the controversial matters that do not affect the local parish I am charged with. Do I have opinions? Of course. When issues have a direct bearing on the individuals and families in my parish, I am compelled to speak. Gladly. As far as whose hand is at the "administrative" helm, I personally do not care - unless he starts to negatively affect the life of the parishioners. In that case be assured he will see a storm rain down upon him from across the country. "Foni laou, orgi theou". In other words, the singular voice of the church (clergy AND laity) is a force to be wreckoned with.

I do not think JONAH was off base. If he was, his comments would have been dismissed as a "newbie's zeal" or something like that. The fact that JONAH's comments have taken hold seems to me to be indicative of the fact that he is right. The HC Faculty's statement rebutting JONAH is very informative, yet markedly defensive. It does not seem to address the issues, but rather emphasizes how important the role of the Patiarch is. No one would disagree with that. Is that the only issue? No. But it seems it is the only one that is being examined. JONAH brought up many real life issues - whether in a subtle or overt manner. The faculty of HC touted the historical prerogatives and role of the patriarch. Ok. Thats nice. But the question that I get is, if he were addressing the issues that affect us now, perhaps he would not be viewed as a disconnected despot.

On the one hand, it seems that this is a battle of positioning. It is quite possible that the Lord Himself will return before the next Ecumenical Council. In the remote possibility that we do indeed have an Ecumenical Council, I believe that the administrative responsibilities of the Church in North America will be assigned to one hierarch. Yes, I am cynical, but it seems that there is a lot of positioning going on. I think that JONAH is speaking of obvious truths that I agree with him on. But... is he positioning? Is the Patriarch positioning? I will pray for them. I will also thank the Lord that I a not in charge of matters like this.

I just hope we dont start bickering with each other and scaring people away!

I am glad I am a local priest. I love my people.I know them. Whatever hierarch is at the helm, I just want him to know us, and love us as well.

Peace.