The Episcopal Church, at it again:
Dr. Tiller was shot and killed Sunday morning while serving as an usher at his church in Witchita, Kansas. Since the 1970s, Dr. Tiller has provided critical abortion and reproductive health care at great personal risk. In doing so, he has saved the lives and futures of countless women and girls across the country. His murder is a tragedy for his family, friends, and colleagues. It is also a tragedy for the women who need his care and for the entire community of health care providers and advocates, and for all of us who believe in a woman's right to dignity and self-determination. Please join us in honoring this great man who truly lived by his motto to "Trust Women."
I would have no problem with a church organizing a demonstration to protest Tiller's murder, which was an evil act deserving of condemnation. But for a Christian Church to have a celebration of the life of a man who made his living putting scissors into the brains of partially-born babies and sucking their brains out is revolting. It's beyond revolting -- well, that's evil. They are turning the cathedral into a temple of Moloch. For shame.
St. Paul's Episcopal Cathedral in Boston held an evening memorial service where the Very Rev. Katherine Ragsdale, president of Episcopal Divinity School in nearby Cambridge, was one of several scheduled speakers."This is about the loss of a man who was a saint and a martyr," she said in an interview before the service.
You may recall what this wicked person said earlier:
These are the two things I want you, please, to remember - abortion is a blessing and our work is not done. Let me hear you say it: abortion is a blessing and our work is not done. Abortion is a blessing and our work is not done. Abortion is a blessing and our work is not done.
This person is the president of the Episcopal Divinity School. Think about that.
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quote: "I love how some comments on this thread brought out the the so-called "confessional" Lutherans to smear the name of ELCA. I am still trying to figure out how you folks know the hearts of almost 5 million people in the US."
None of the confessional Lutherans on this thread have said anything about the hearts of all of the members of the ELCA. Indeed, it was correctly pointed out that some faithful Lutherans do remain in the ELCA, though they are a minority.
The problem is that some practices tolerated in the ELCA and especially the doctrinal stances that the ELCA has taken as a denomination on a whole host of issues runs counter to the Lutheran confessions, the Scriptures and the Gospel. For example, the ELCA ordains women, which is contrary to the Scriptures. The ELCA also isn't exactly known for firm orthodoxy when it comes to abortion or sexual morality (especially homosexual behavior) either. Also, by entering into full communion with bodies that are Reformed, the ELCA has made a mockery of what the Lutheran confessions (not to mention theologians such as Martin Luther and Martin Chemnitz) teach about communion. Finally, the ELCA has compromised Lutheran soteriology (remember the Gospel is actually important to Lutheranism) by its participation in the "Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification" with the Roman Catholic Church.
Again, there are faithful Lutherans in the ELCA. But as a body, it has clearly departed from confessional Lutheranism.
rr
Re: For example, the ELCA ordains women, which is contrary to the Scriptures.
I don't think so. Personally I don't begrudge the Catholics and Orthodox the right to choose not to ordain women, or challenge the arguments therein. I'm not even sure my own church should ordain women, and I certainly _prefer_ a male priest. Such arguments however are based squarely on Sacred Tradition, not on Scripture. Such arguments carry weight for an Anglican, a Catholic, or an Orthodox Christian, whther or not such a person eventually decides that the witness of tradition is overriden by other factors. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but Lutherans are 'Sola Scriptura'. There is nothing in Scripture that prohibits the ordination of women (besides that citation that women should not have authority over men, which I think most of us would see as a time-bound reflection of a male dominated society, and not as an eternal Dominical command.)
Aicia,
Re: What would you say of a Muslim cleric who condemned suicide bombings of Jews in Israel, but added, "Israel equals Nazi Germany" or "Jews are evil," (or descendants of pigs and monkeys)?
Nonsense. It's perfectly possible to be an anti-Semite and not support killing Jews. General Franco was a quintessential anti-Semite, for example, but he refused to take part in the Holocaust, and in fact Spain was something of a refuge for French Jews during the war.
Not to mention that comparing Jews to abortion doctors is despicable, and rather anti-Semitic in itself.
quote: "However, correct me if I'm wrong, but Lutherans are 'Sola Scriptura'. There is nothing in Scripture that prohibits the ordination of women."
Nonesense. Paul is quite clear about this. And it isn't some cultural issue as with headcoverings and the like. Women's ordination is unbiblical and is a result of mainline denominations taking their cues from the cultural left instead of the Bible.
The LCMS and WELS aren't the only Protestants that see women's ordination as unbiblical BTW. The Presbyterian Church in America (PCA), Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), and basically any conservative Protestant body does as well.
rr
Hector, thanks for your response. I don't agree that it is anti-semitic to use that example. But, again, I think the point I was attempting to make is being misunderstood, or misread.
The point is, to restate it, when someone who considers himself prolife (such as Rod Dreher) labels George Tiller "an evil abortionist" he is using the kind of reductive language that makes it easier to justify Tiller's murder. What if, on the other hand, Rod had posted something like "I find what Tiller did as a doctor performing late-term abortions utterly abhorrent, but I recognize that he may have been acting in accordance with his own ethical standards, and it is not for me to judge him for that. And I utterly repudiate his murder"?
I hope this clarifies the point I was trying to make in my previous post.
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