I'm going to step away from the blog for most of today to devote myself to finishing my Templeton project. Erin's going to pinch hit for most of today. Before I go, though, I want to call your attention to a striking quote from David Virtue, the indefatigable orthodox Anglican journalist, which appeared in this morning's NYTimes, in a story announcing that the Episcopal Church's General Convention has now removed all barriers to consecrating sexually active homosexuals to the episcopate. Virtue, who has been covering TEC forever, characterized yesterday's vote thus:
"It's a clean sweep for the liberal agenda in the Episcopal Church," said David Virtue, editor of VirtueOnline.org, a conservative Web site. "The orthodox are finished."
You really should read Virtue Online to get a sense of what's going on at this GC. Here's a piece by the (conservative) bishop of Central Florida. Excerpt:
This is a remarkably different General Convention than any of the previous six I have attended as a Bishop. I would characterize all the previous Conventions as highly contentious. This one is not. We still have the same recurrent issues ahead of us, but the "conservative" wing is so greatly diminished that its voice is almost irrelevant.I made that comment to one person who questioned whether I really meant it, "Irrelevant? Don't you mean "hated?" No, there is no sense of animosity here. The conservatives state their position(s) respectfully and they are treated with respect in return. It is just that they are so hugely outnumbered that it doesn't matter.
Game over. Now what?
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Indeed that's what I think (to get back to the point of the thread) we're seeing in TEC right now: On gay issues, the liberal position is winning because it's ultimately where all of Christianity is going to go.
CFK,
Thanks for a thoughtful response in your last post. The thread seems to be winding down. I'd like to close by saying that nothing is inevitable on this. Yes, the liberal position is winning in TEC and in other mainline/liberal Protestant bodies. But the demographics don't bode well for the future of these bodies. Moreover, the gay issue is just another one that further estranges them from conservative churches, who currently see churches such as TEC as a crazy or even apostate. Also, conservative churches are generally healthier demographically.
Currently the liberal position on homosexuality is the minority report in Christianity only accepted by church bodies that are predominately wealthier, older and shrinking. For all of Christianity to change its position on homosexuality, the conservatives will absolutely have to change. I don't see any indication of this yet. And since we don't know the future, there is no guarantee it will ever occur. It's possible that conservatives will change. It's also possible, and in my view more likely, that they won't and that TEC will to some degree go the way of the Shakers.
rr
CFK:
"Thus, ignorance is defined so that all non-Christians, by definition, are ignorant. Tautologically, then, no non-Christian has rejected Christ, so everyone's safe."
Ignorance of Christ is seen as a punishment for other sins in Christian theology. See St. Thomas's Summa, II-II, q.10. Many sins produce a blindness of mind which prevents the sinner from seeing the truth, in which is salvation.
However, plenty of non-Christians have formally rejected Christ, because His message is now well known throughout the whole earth, such that it is very difficult for a person to come to adulthood without hearing about Him. This happened even in the times of the Romans, as witness St. Paul speaking to King Agrippa in Acts 26.
Rod was taken to task (a bit unfairly, I think) about evangelism in this thread. The recurrent question was "do you tell your Jewish friends that they're damned?"
I think it's worthwhile to point out here that cross-religious views are not symmetrical. Jews do believe in an afterlife. Everybody gets in. According to Jewish belief, you're in. Congratulations.
There is also a Jewish belief in hell. If you're really bad, after you die you will go to hell and you will stay there for eleven months.
A whole year would be cruel and we know that God has infinite mercy, and wouldn't be cruel, right?
There is a Jewish belief that the World to Come is an eternal study session lead by God. We all get to discuss the important things and see them with clarity.
Rod was taken to task (a bit unfairly, I think) about evangelism in this thread. The recurrent question was "do you tell your Jewish friends that they're damned?"
I think it's worthwhile to point out here that cross-religious views are not symmetrical. Jews do believe in an afterlife. Everybody gets in. According to Jewish belief, you're in. Congratulations.
There is also a Jewish belief in hell. If you're really bad, after you die you will go to hell and you will stay there for eleven months.
A whole year would be cruel and we know that God has infinite mercy, and wouldn't be cruel, right?
There is a Jewish belief that the World to Come is an eternal study session lead by God. We all get to discuss the important things and see them with clarity.
rr, maybe so. My own guess is that opposition to gay rights and gay equality is going the way of opposition to racial equality, and that all churches that hope to remain viable in the future will eventually get with the new program, just as they eventually climbed down from former positions justifying racial discrimination. There may be some fancy arguments involved, but that's where they'll end up, I think. (The Mormons, of course, have the simplest method -- their president just gets a new "revelation" that, oh, OK, it's wrong to exclude blacks after all, or whatever.)
But we'll see! Meanwhile, on to other threads.
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