Is Frank Lombard's religion relevant?

I'd say that religion is relevant to the extent that it motivated the crime. And if that Episcopal church and its ministers were doing anything at all to encourage or even to enable this molestation (e.g. if they were aware of it and were merely passively encouraging Lombard to stop) then Lombard's religion is indeed relevant, in the same way that Catholic bishops who were aware of abuse and did little or nothing to prevent and expose it are also accessories to that crime.

On the other hand, if the church wasn't aware of the abuse and wasn't preaching in such a way that a reasonable person might think that they condoned abuse then I don't see how this crime reflects on the church any more than it reflects on Lombard's employer, Duke University.

Child sexual abuse is, alas, far more common than this one incident. In a different thread, I've linked to other cases where straight (or nominally straight) youth pastors in a variety of denominations have used their position to abuse teenagers and in some cases children younger than that. The usual response is to immediately remove the pastor from their position and to cooperate with the police in their investigation, which is as it should be.

One well known attribute that most pedophiles and ephebophiles have in common is that they will deliberately seek out positions of trust and authority within their community, preferably one with access to children (this is precisely why the position of youth pastor is so attractive to them—ready access to youth, a good justification for being around youngsters, and the authority that goes with the responsibility).

It looks like Lombard was doing something similar. No doubt his active position in his church helped him immensely with the adoption process.

Why is it different with abortion-related murders? Well, some of the more fringe religious groups within the pro-life movement will, while perhaps deprecating violence, paint abortion providers as evil, persistent sinners, hated by God (we even saw a bit of that here in the wake of the Tiller murder). Of course they don't advocate violence. But there is a mixed message there.

The correct analogy would be if the church Lombard belonged to had said "Sex with minors is absolutely wrong, but just look at how attractive and sensual and desirable those young bodies are. It's a shame that you can't have sex with those children. But you can't touch them! That would be morally wrong."

"The sins and alleged crimes of one gay parent say as much about the motivations and beliefs of those who advocate legal adoptions by gays and lesbians as, well, the sins and crimes of one anti-abortion activist who shoots an abortionist say something valid about the motivations and beliefs of people in the mainstream pro-life movement. In other words -- next to nothing."

I have to disagree. It does offer up the opportunity to explore these issues especially since of late several cases of molestation by open homosexuals have hit the news and it is fair game to explore as the media explored the Catholic churches role in tacit approve and enabling of homosexuals in its midst. Also it is fair game to explore if an abortion clinic shooting is related to the tactic approval of Pro-Life groups as it has repeatedly in the media and been found largely without merit.

The media on the other hand only lifts up open homosexuals and religion when it serves their world view where as it totally ignores countless studies over the past 50 years showing connections between molestation and the homosexual lifestyle. Frank Lombard's reading list on Amazon provides an excellent example of the tacit if not open tolerance of the idolization of underage boys and promotion of even the most radical extremes of sexuality. Not all gay men molest but a very large number of them have been molested and the research shows that will out a doubt that men who are abused sexually or otherwise are at a much greater risk of acting out. It is also fair to explore whether the adoption services are allowing homosexuals and single individuals in general to adopt children to the detriment of two parent heterosexual married families. The fact that conservatives and churches will not use opportunities like this to make points and raise red flags just leaves Christianity and conservatives to a grave disadvantage. The media pouched with glee on the Duke case involving the Lacrosse players they were filled with mock outrage but now that little boys are involved and an AIDs policy researcher and his partner who is involved in clinical drug trails at Duke no one wants to talk about it. Most of the media don't even dare admit he is a homosexual even the media in the UK is not that dense.

Let a christian communal community kick reporters out and barricade the street and this would be news. Finally the Church and some students have come forward and that is a good thing but who do you think will illustrate not only the double standard but talk about these issues if we do not make it an issue? Is it fair that an entirely one sided view of homosexuality is presented on tv and through the news. Gay Exorcism gets nearly a week of coverage in which no one was hurt on the Drudge report but a Gay rape of a little African American boy gets one? There was also a case earlier this year where Jason Sheppard was killed during an attempt at gay rape. I know personally of one case where a boy molested by a gay man since the age of 10 is spending time in jail because he snapped and killed him.

So go ahead an cover for the media and make the gay activists jobs easier but the tacit approval of molestation and predation is still there and it will eventually become even more difficult to say anything about it as people who do not dare look behind the closet curtain or even ask the questions about the overt obscenity and lewd acts in "Gay pride" parades. No the press doesn't cover those either.
That's a hate crime or soon will be.

The fact that he's active in the church is an interesting detail that seems a reasonable thing to add to a story.

Beyond that, it's only so much concern trolling by the anti-Episcopal right, it seems.

Given the fact that the openly gay Episcopal bishop from New Hampshire, Gene Robinson has advocated to children in his diocese that they should share their "sexual gifts with others", and the fact that neither Robinson nor any of the openly and activist gay priests, bishops and activists in the Episcopal church have spoken out against NAMBLA or the newly formed lesbian version of NAMBLA, "Butterfly Kisses", how they've been involved in productions of the Vagina Monologues, which includes a lesbian rationalizes her molestation of a 13 year old girl. How they've refused to speak out against these criminal acts, or the glbtq activist organizations demanding that the age of consent laws be over turned, yeah, i'd say it's especially relevant.

Re: The media on the other hand only lifts up open homosexuals and religion when it serves their world view where as it totally ignores countless studies over the

Maybe, and yet more recently we had scads of stories (too many to count) where it was the Catholic Clerical lifestyle linked the abuse of children. Thern there's the unhappy fact that the White People's Lifestyle is deeply linked to prejudice and discrimination against Blacks even to the point of violence. And (to hear some feminists tell it at least) the Straight Male lifestyle is inseparably linked to brutality and even rape against women. Not to mention the human lifesyle is linked to the destruction of the natural environment.
The broad tar brush can smear a canvas of any size.

"The media on the other hand only lifts up open homosexuals and religion when it serves their world view where as it totally ignores countless studies over the past 50 years showing connections between molestation and the homosexual lifestyle."

Fair enough. Shall we start taking a look at the number of child abuse cases coming out of Protestant churches, or churches in general, and see what kind of connection there is between child abuse and the Christian lifestyle?

In all of the child abuse cases that have come to light in the past 10 years from various churches, it is accurate to say that a good number were committed by homosexual men against young boys. It is also accurate to say that a good number were committed by lesbian women against young girls. And is is also accurate to say that an even greater number were committed by heterosexual pastors against youth of the opposite sex.

But through all of that it is quite accurate to say that all of these church abuse cases were committed by men and women who were living a Christian lifestyle.

What is it about the Christian lifestyle that promotes such activity?

So, would the "devout" reference be relevant in media reports on the same crime by a conservative, an evangelical, a "devout" Catholic?

Anyone here remember Dennis Rader, aka "BTK"?

The amazing thing about the story is that is hasn't been a story. The Duke Lacrosse non-story was in the mainstream media focus for months. In contrast, here we have a homosexual Episcopalian, i.e. a MSM darling, and they are afraid to cover the story lest they be called "hateful" and "homophobic."

Lombard's religion is completey relevant. He belongs to a sect which practices a type of milk toasted, super-premium sized cheap graced, do it your self, feel good, make it up, follow your bliss ki nd of radically, individualistic personal piety. With this world view, just about any behavior can be twisted into being permissable.

I mean, after all, who are we to judge? Jesus never said anything about pedastery did he? Pull the log out of your own eye and all that...

The Episcopal church has been almost (and appropriately) obsessively vigilant regarding the sexual exploitation of children and youth from almost the first time this came to the attention of the religious community 25 plus years ago. Most dioceses (territorial jurisdictions similar to states) have rigid requirements regarding clergy and those working with children/youths. It does not extend these requrements to laypeople and their families, and of course would not have the ability to do so. The Episcopal church was probably a little quicker than the RCs to do this, but most people in the faith community feel badly it took the courts and public opinion to make this happen.

Geoff,

Your underlying premise is that it is natural, understandable, that one takes the law into one's own hands against those one regards as extraordinarily evil. So when pro-lifers point out that Tiller's line of work is an abhorrent gig beneath the dignity of human beings, you view this as tacit endorsement of vigilante justice. If he's committing evil, he must be stopped.

Its a screwed up values system, one we reject. And so we scratch our heads at the logic you and Tiller's killer seem to share.

Of course it's relevant. Anything about the background of a felony child-abuse accusee is relevant.

Relevance of religion: Only if there is clear evidence of some sort of enabling by Lombard's local church and/or some level of pro-paedophilia attitude by major factions of ECUSA. That looks unlikely, although I might be wrong.

Relevance of homosexuality: This is more complicated. I consider that the rape of a 5-year-old boy is such an off-the-wall crime that it is not really linked to typical homosexuality. However, whereas sexual attration to very young children is a straightforward perversion, sexual attraction to young teenagers is biologically normal, albeit morally unacceptable for a range of sociopsychological reasons. I, a fairly normal heterosexual, am attracted to 14-year-old girls (I do not act on that attraction), and I expect gays are the same with respect to boys. I therefore object to gays adopting boys, because they are either teenagers or future teenagers. For similar reasons, I object to single heterosexual males adopting girls - best not to "tenter le diable".

Bias in attention: I suspect that the most important take-home point about the Catholic sex scandals is that one should scrutinise those with whom one agrees as carefully as those with whom one disagrees. There was a case in England recently of a gay couple who had been sort of poster cases for fostering, but had sexually abused numerous boys, and the authorities, in a very liberal borough, had ignored numerous warnings.

Thats my dad.