This is a stunning blow to the Catholics who believe in the validity of the alleged Marian apparitions in Medjugorje. I used to pretty much believe in them, mostly because I'd known a few people who had been there, seen mystical things they couldn't explain, and had profound conversions, even healings. And I read Randall Sullivan's remarkable book "The Miracle Detective," which is mostly about Medjugorje and the amazing things he encountered there (it also has a significant portion devoted to Fr. Philip Pavich, who used to serve in Medjugorje, and who is an angry skeptic of the apparitions). But at some point a while back, I quit thinking about Medjugorje. It's not that I decided they weren't true; it's that I decided that whether or not they were true was not really important to my Christian life, and in fact could be a distraction from what's really important. If you ask me today whether or not I believe in the apparitions, I'd say no, I don't, but that I hope that they are true, because a lot of people had a lot of good out of them. So it's sad to me to see it fall apart, but it doesn't affect my faith one way or another.
Lisa Fullam at Commonweal's blog, while not endorsing Vlasic or Medjugorje, nevertheless wonders:
On the other hand, what if he isn't a fraud, and truly believes in the apparitions he did so much to publicize? Well, would you listen to the Pope's order not to speak about Medjugorje over what you believe was the Virgin Mary's command (through 6 schoolchildren) to do so?
But Mark Shea is having none of it.
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It amazes me the extent to which defenders of Medjugorje see even the defrocking of a priest as a miracle.
Roman Catholics should research the term "prelest," spiritual delusion. They should also read the writings of the Fathers of the Early Church.
The notion that the controversy of Medjugorye is on a par with the teachings of Christ...and the life of Our Savior is a blasphemy...and an example of some of the sloppiest thinking I have ever encountered.
Happy now that my wife and I became Orthodox Christians.
EddieL, for lack of a better word, I feel the need to reach out to you. This is NOT by the way the only question...with the visionaries also being informed who "the holiest person" around is...a Muslim. Fine. The point here is not to judge any one's soul. But in a similar vein in The Divine Mercy devotion/diary, Sr. Faustina, it is revealed to her, that she is the "humblest nun" in the convent. Even "conservative" Catholics still struggle with this one. And such revelations? Review Catholic history. Much of it includes an attempt to integrate some previously problematic movement, trend and make it part of praxis. The Fransciscan movement itself is a variant of the Waldensians. And BTW, no truly Orthodox Christian would consider praying to receive the stigmata Orthodox. Add to the list various emotional pseudo-mystical movements in the Spain of Teresa of Avila. In our time, the Charismatic Movement has NOTHING to do with Orthodox Christianity and fails even on Scriptural terms...and the teachings of the ascetics and Fathers of the Early Church. Google "Fr. Gino" as well as "The Marian Movement of Priests" for Fr. Gobbi...frankly even the Fatima movement is still not without controversy. More recnt. liberal inclusions involve "eco-theology" and "creation theology" etc... As for the "conversion of Russia" Russian saints such as St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. John of Kronstadt also prayed for that. Technically, no not "defrocked" since in Catholic thought a priest is always a priest. In Orthodoxy, the priesthood comes from the Church, a gift of the spirit. It is not something a "laicsized priest" can run around with for the rest of his life while not exercising priestly faculties...which would be illicit. There is no Orthodox Christianity without prayer and fasting. This is nothing new. We repent till the end. I met many of the "pilgrims" years ago. While many were indeed zealous, they also "felt sorry" for those who didn't know what they were talking about, who couldn't look at a held statue and say, "Yes, this one really looks like Her...Oh, he doesn't know what we're talking about." This is also a familar stance of Charismatics who "feel sorry" for those who "don't get it." This has NOTHING to do with the humility taught in the Early Church and is an indication of supreme spiritual pride. That the Vatican approves this wouldn't suprise me, because even like Communion in the hand, it was made part of practice after the fact. More than reading the latest pro-Croatian updates, may I recommend Orthodox Dogmatic Theology by Pomazansky, a formidable title but a clear read which also distinguishes Orthodox Christian teachings on salvation and redemption from what developed in the Western world during the Middle Ages. Even Thomas of Aquinas reposed at a Benedictine monastery, and BTW Benedict of Nursia is celebrated on the Orthodox calendar. In the last week of Dormition Fast. I say these things knowing I myself am not a humble man and in need of much repentance. And as for atheists and pagan who chime in, I can't even convert myself. If anything I blame much of their views on the poor example of Christians such as myself.
What is the history of Medjugorje. Folks (a lot of men) go to Medjugorje and come back and become closer to God and go to Mass much more often for the rest of their lives. That is my experience with dozens of folks. Here is a recent event with a visionary of Medjugorge in Vienna in June of 2009: "Marija spent the evening of September 15th in Vienna, having her apparition at St. Stephan's Cathedral ("Stephansdom"). All seats in the cathedral were packed with thousands of people from all over Austria. The prayer meeting ended with a surprise when Cardinal Christoph Schönborn led the closing prayers." According to the logic the author of this blog seems to put forth is that whatever a defrocked priest was a part of in a big way, we should be careful about that movement. Since every defrocked priets was probably involved in the Mass and Eurcharist, should we then be concerned abou those beliefs. I did not think so - By their fruits, you will know them. God Bless.
After reading some of these comments, I feel concerned. Our Heavenly Father Loves us SO MUCH that He gave His One and Only Son to pay the debt for all of our sin, as a free Gift! Does everyone realize the enormity of that? Why is everyone not focusing on THAT more? What a BLESSING! What Love! God Loves you! Rejoice! Instead of clouding your time bickering and worrying about validity of apparitions, use your time wisely focusing on Jesus. Learn about Him. Get to know Him. Receive Him. Pray for all others with the sincerity of wanting them to receive the salvation offered in Jesus that you want for yourselves. Tell others about Jesus. And remember what our Heavenly Father said: "Be still and know that I AM God."
Wow I am also a little concerned about the people who still say that it is ok to promote medjugorje after the church has condemned it. What better way for satan to get to us then by dividing us. I think the wonderful thing is, that the truth is the truth no matter if we believe it or not. The best way to know that truth is to trust the Church Christ gave us and constantly seek to know Him through His word and church. That means we need to have the humility to accept the teachings of the church which is far older and wiser then we are. We need to stop acting like rebellious teenagers and let our pride go. Rationalization is a very powerful instinct. If you don't understand the reasoning for something, seek answers. Go to the Vatican website, read the writings of the bishops, trust our shepherds. I can understand the passion behind peoples belief, especially if they themselves have had wonderful experiences there. It can be hurtful to hear that the church doesn't feel the same way. But, that is where our humility needs to take over. Christine, I agree with what you said, but as Catholics we take the words of the mother of God very seriously. That is why people get so fired up. If God took the time to send her here to give us a message I think we better listen. She always points us to her son, and shows us how to love him more. Thank God I have the Church Christ instituted to help show me the way to love Christ and live his love. I am glad to know we are not the authority on faith matters, because we would all have different views. In all things praise Jesus!
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