Prosperity Gospel prospering in hard times
Thursday July 9, 2009
Categories: Religion (general)
I was reading this piece in Slate asking how the Prosperity Gospel -- the idea that God wants you to get rich, if you want to -- is faring in hard times, and thinking, "This is really good and well-informed;...
Filed Under: prosperity gospel
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About Crunchy Con
Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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"God wants to make your life easier"
Quite simply, this is not the gospel. In fact, it is so far removed from the Christian gospel that it doesn't even qualify as a heresy.
The Purpose Drive Life invoked the prosperity gospel. Am I to understand Warren has repudiated this? If so, I am glad.
Actually, the idea that a deity will bless their worshippers with material prosperity is a wee bit more than 200 years old, and doesn't only come in 'feel good' forms. Even Prosperity Theology has its less than shiny, happy side. You see, God blesses the faithful. Therefore, if it doesn't work for you, and you aren't blessed (materially, of course), it follows that you are not sufficiently faithful. The Calvinist had a form of this too, with their 'signs of election'. And, it seems, despite Job, and the blind man (did this man or his father sin, that he was born blind?), or that collapsing tower, that most denominations have a hard time disassociating a person's material and their spiritual wellbeing.
But, its understandable, and it isn't probably about feeling good (unless you're doing well, and they probably feel good already, likely), but about feeling a need for some sense of control over their lives. If you are struggling, even if this theology would suggest that means you have spiritual deficits, that's something you can do something about. You can't control the economy, you can't always, no matter how hard you try, change the mundane portions of your current situation. But, if you think that if you just believe enough, if you pray hard enough, if you just do the right spiritual thing, that it can turn things around, you can feel less helpless.
Now, I don't believe that wishing will make it so, but I can understand why some people will prefer thinking that over (and even the Bible notes this), sometimes bad stuff happens and, not only may you not be able to do anything about it, it might not even have anything to do with you or anything you did, or do.
The worst proponents of this snakeoil, though, aren't the desperate people trying to find any glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.. its both the con men pitching it (always with the idea that God needs His pump primed with cash before He can start with the blessing dispensing and, well, since God doesn't handle cash, you can hand that over to them as His proxy), and the 'blessed' who use it as an excuse to not help others since, well, the situation the poor is a sign that those people are a sign they are not 'right with God'.
And I never read 'Purpose', but it DOES have a lot to do with that 'Jabez' book. Though it predates both by quite a ways.
These preachers are pimps of false hope and salvation by materialism. It is a cruel irony -- and a testimony to human gullibility -- that they continue to prosper amid hard times.
Elmer Gantry might as well be a documentary and training manual. Sure the technology has changed and the reach can be greater than eighty years ago, but the program is still reliable for the preachers.
I remember a show called 'Pray TV'. It was a spoof about televangelists, including hiring a secular song writer who merely took their love songs and added the word 'Jesus' to them. They would flash a 1-800 number on the screen during the preacher's sermon and, though this was a fictional show, a parody, and the number was a 555 one, people STILL swamped switchboards trying to call the darn thing.
Which doesn't really surprise me at all.
Quite simply, this is not the gospel. In fact, it is so far removed from the Christian gospel that it doesn't even qualify as a heresy.
I dunno. I still think it falls within the heresy camp. There were some real wacky ideas floating around before the Nicene Council...
"I have come that you might have life and have it more abundantly", Jesus said.
Only a spiritual child would interpret that message as material possessions exclusively.
I do not attend any of the churches that teach the prosperity message, but I find the debate interesting. In my work, I often talk with many prosperous Christians who are devoted to the message of Divine prospering. They just keep going to the megachurches, keep giving, and keep prospering. Some are millionaires. I haven't heard the first voice rise against their prosperity.
Time and again over the last year, I've talked with "prosperity Christians" who have bought and sold at just the right time to sustain financial strength in this economic climate. Every one of them have believed and implemented (and still do) the elements of the prosperity gospel in their everyday affairs.
I think it's interesting that Kenneth Copeland was awakened one night last year with an unction to sell all their stock. He sold...BEFORE the stock market took a nosedive. (The Bible does say the Holy Spirit will show us things to come.) I know he makes some people want to spit, but I'm not sure he makes God want to spit. Besides, I don't think we "mere men" should say what God will spit out of His mouth, lest we be be part of His spit. As I remember, lukewarm Christians have been targeted for that.
Hey, guys, what if the dissenters are all wrong? Take a look at the prosperous people involved in this teaching. You'll find engineers, doctors, lawyers and other well-educated people involved, not just the so-called snakeoil preachers. And not just those "little old widows giving their last dollar."
Obviously, hope is a hot commodity today. So what's the difference in the *popular* prosperity message and what educated folks are selling (and buying) from Washington? But wait! That is "real" hope, right? Or is it perhaps just self-serving community organizers trying to tell us they will take care of all of our problems...if we'll all just get ready to give! We can be sure, we will give--as will generations to come. And you can be sure in Washington, if need be, "the just" shall take it by force.
What if we are wasting time and energy being disgusted and up in arms about the wrong message? God helps us all when Washington finishes selling its prosperity message. I'd rather take a chance on Osteen's message. At least, his message makes me feel good, and hopeful.
For hope and prosperity, some people will just believe *anything,* won't they?
Yep.
I do not attend any of the churches that teach the prosperity message, but I find the debate interesting. In my work, I often talk with many prosperous Christians who are devoted to the message of Divine prospering. They just keep going to the megachurches, keep giving, and keep prospering. Some are millionaires. I haven't heard the first voice rise against their prosperity. Least of all mine, as I appreciate their business...as do many other business people who benefit from the trickle-down economics of this prosperity message. There are many. (Spare me any tirade about certain kooks who might have failed to be upright in business and happened to be of the prosperity persuasion. I've come across some of them too. Unscrupulous people are mixed in everywhere.)
Time and again over the last year, I've talked with "prosperity Christians" who have bought and sold at just the right time to sustain financial strength in this economic climate. (I wish I had not missed the memo.) Every one of them have believed and implemented (and still do) the elements of the prosperity gospel in their everyday affairs.
I think it's interesting that Kenneth Copeland was awakened one night last year with an unction to sell all their stock. He sold...BEFORE the stock market took a nosedive. (The Bible does say the Holy Spirit will show us things to come.) I realize he makes some people want to spit, but I'm not sure he makes God want to spit. Besides, I don't think we "mere men" should say what God will spit out of His mouth, lest we be be part of His spit. As I remember, lukewarm Christians have been chosen for His spit.
Hey, guys, what if all the dissenters are wrong? Take a look at the prosperous people involved in this teaching! You'll find engineers, doctors, lawyers and other well-educated people involved, not just the so-called snakeoil preachers. And not just those "little old widows giving their last dollar."
Obviously, hope is a hot commodity today. So what's the difference between the *popular* prosperity message and what educated folks are selling (and buying) from Washington? But wait! Washington is dispensing "real" hope, right? Or is it perhaps just self-serving community organizers trying to tell us they will take care of all of our problems...if we'll all just get ready to give! We can be sure, we will give--as will generations to come--and we can be sure in Washington, the just" shall take it by force.
What if we are wasting time and energy being disgusted and up in arms about the wrong message? God help us all when Washington finishes selling its prosperity message. I'd rather take a chance on Osteen's message. At least, his message makes me feel good, and hopeful.
For hope and prosperity, some people will believe just *anything,* won't they?
IWantToKnow, I want to know why, if your analysis is correct, the founder of this religion ended up naked on a cross, and not sitting in a nice big chair in a nice big mansion.
Furthermore, he told us in so many words that if we follow him, we're going to end up like he did.
So....if some religious group teaches the exact opposite, how can they claim to be his followers? It's like, Joe Smith is going to New York, you claim to be following him, but surprise! you're in Los Angeles! If you're following Joe you're not doing a very good job.
I think they're following someone else.
It's the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil. Money itself is a neutural possession. It's up to Christians, rich or poor, to use it wisely.
Some are better at it than others.
There are also those who prosper (temporarily), who make no claims to Christianity.
The evidence of money or lack therof is proof of nothing.
Prosperity theology, or 'seed faith', or any of a number of names it goes by goes beyond simply that God can sometimes bless or lead people to material prosperity. None of us said that either. It says that material prosperity is a sign of blessing, and that the level of your being 'right with God' can determine how well off you are. Belief is the fuel of this process, and you demonstrate your level of belief by contributing (planting a seed) to the ministry that makes the proclamation, and that God will, and some will say is /obligated/ to, well, multiply that money and send it back to you.
So, the more you give, the more you get. God is like a risk free high interest investment. Of course, it only works if YOU have sufficient faith.
Does that sound anything like 'sometimes God can send the Holy Spirit to offer advice that might help you in your investments?
So, the more you give, the more you get. God is like a risk free high interest investment. Of course, it only works if YOU have sufficient faith.
Does that sound anything like 'sometimes God can send the Holy Spirit to offer advice that might help you in your investments?
Does it sound anything like, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me"?
Boy, when the trolls and flame-wars are kept at bay, there's some real good stuff in these threads!
The Calvinist had a form of this too, with their 'signs of election'. And, it seems, despite Job, and the blind man (did this man or his father sin, that he was born blind?), or that collapsing tower, that most denominations have a hard time disassociating a person's material and their spiritual wellbeing.
I'm just finishing (Father? not sure) John Dunlop's biography of Staretz Amvrosy, a 19th century Russian monk who formed part of the basis for Dostoevsky's Father Zosima in The Brothers Karamazov. The staretz was poor and miserable all his life, but had a faith that would make most of ours here look like the proverbial seed planted in rocky soil. Of course there are countless stories like his.
Obviously, hope is a hot commodity today. So what's the difference between the *popular* prosperity message and what educated folks are selling (and buying) from Washington? But wait! Washington is dispensing "real" hope, right?
DINGDINGDINGDINGDING! We have a winner! I voted for Obama for foreign policy reasons, and am reasonably satisfied with that part of my "purchase," but MAN, there's a lot of snake oil in his domestic "product."
Well, two significant differences between any politician (whether Obama, Bush, Washington or Mao, for that matter) and even as material a religious claim as this one.
At no point is your own 'belief', in and of itself (as distinguished from such practical support or lack of support as votes, donations, etc) a factor when the claim isn't fulfilled.
If you believe it, you will receive it' and the idea that the more you donate the greater it will be multiplied are claims no politician could make in this country, at least (where open bribery and patronage are not only discouraged, but mostly illegal) and get elected.
If you believe it, you will receive it
I like it. It's catchy, positive, New Age ("visualize..!") all that jazz.
What it isn't is Christianity.
Does it "work"? Like, does it indeed increase your material wealth? I have no idea, but if it does, that would arouse my deepest suspicions. Does anyone remember who exactly is "the Prince of This World"?
Observer @ 2:16 PM writes:
"Does anyone remember who exactly is "the Prince of This World"?"
Michael Jackson ?
Your servant,
Lord Karth
Actually, I'd agree, though the principle is not really new. Maybe the New Age borrowed it, rather than vice versa. And I've lived a bit too long to actually buy it.
"Sell what you have, give to the poor, and follow me" Matthew 19. But let a church with a mortgage and a professional clergy get involved? Joel Osteen.
Immediately mistrust anyone who says, "giving money to me is exactly like giving it to God." (The Catholic Church is an expert on this.)
Don't give them money. That's idolatry.
Wow - so filled with hate and discord. If I had to take a guess at who God will spit out of His mouth, I would bet on you Mr. Dreher.
Not Joel, a guy who speaks about love, hope and joy.
Shame on Beliefnet for letting such hate, anger and bitterness cross their pages.
God is a giver, but many people think that means God will give us whatever we want. That's not true; He gives us what we need.
"Let him that hath no clue cast the first stone"
Quantum Physics and string theory may sound off topic here -- but in fact it's the very thing that is simply beyond the grasp of the detractors here. Can you say "multiverse"? dark-matter? dark-energy?. Humans are grossly ignorant of the *invisible* and as yet *undetectable* substance that 96% of the Universe is made of! If you believe in a creator then you must wonder what that stuff is there for. Can you say "stupid"? -- we don't really know much at all. Yet we dare to dictate how the 4% "baryonic" (atomic) universe must be distributed according to human economic constructs? What arrogance! Osteen knows better! -- as confirmed in your own scriptures! Ask me if it really works.
How dare anyone limit the creator of the universe to the mere 4% of it that we actually understand. *That* is shameful! *That* is ignorance with eloquence! If you only knew how terribly stupid our best science is -- you wouldn't dare doubt God -- cause you'd finally see how desperate you really are. You'd see that it really is "about you" and your needs (God doesn't have any needs silly).
One more time folks -- we are all in desperate need -- their is a gateway a triving -- yes abundant life -- to through your heart; driven by your intense passions and fueled by expectant gratitude (got it?). Until you get that -- you'll be locked into this tower of babble until *your* end-time. Let him that hath ears hear. I know this is tough stuff. The edge of physics can at least show you where the mystery is -- 96% of the universe is waiting on your heart, passion and gratitude to "to open up the heavens" to you. Please choose that multiverse -- because the one your pontificating here is not it!
(...apologies for typos above)
They're really all coming out of the woodwork.
Indeed. Count yourself lucky that you didn't have to read the pinheaded ad hominem comments I deleted. Some prosperity gospelista must have linked to this post. I sense a troll party coming. Time to close off the comments for the evening.