Crunchy Con

The tragic life of Ted Kennedy

Wednesday August 26, 2009

Categories: Ave atque vale
And so, the last brother of that mythical generation of Kennedys is gone, and of the children of Joe and Rose, only Jean Kennedy Smith remains. After the death of his brothers, and until the election of Obama, Teddy Kennedy...
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Comments
Cannoneo
August 26, 2009 7:43 AM

"All the potential for greatness he possessed he squandered..."

No way. If any legislative career can be called great, his can -- community health centers come to mind as something without which life would be almost untenable in many places -- regardless of what his true ceiling was.

More than that, he showed people, through the Reagan and Clinton and Bush years especially, how to be a full-throated and unashamed progressive ... to defend economic justice and the rightness of the federal government's role in ensuring it, with the manly vigor of an old-time fighting priest.

Free Iran
August 26, 2009 8:17 AM

He was a celebrity, sometimes a self-parody, a hearty friend, an implacable foe, a man of large faith and large flaws,

And what "faith" was that: Christian? Catholic? Jewish? Muslim? Orthodox?

If "Ted" Kennedy was a man of faith (whether large or small or middle-sized), I saw little evidence of such.

What does the NYT statement mean, or what is it supposed to suggest - that he was a devout, practicing, saintly, reverent, and faithful member of a religious tradition?

Lance Smithson
August 26, 2009 8:23 AM

He saw two of his brothers killed trying to lead this nation out of the dark ages of racial inequality (which conservatives still call our heyday) That gives him some leeway on his weaknesses in my eyes.

Oh...and Sarah Palin...his sister started the special olympics. Why would liberals start something so wonderful if their intention was to kill special needs babies.

Roland de Chanson
August 26, 2009 8:26 AM

De mortuis nihil nisi bonum.

Ergo, nihil.

RIP anyway.

Jasper
August 26, 2009 8:27 AM

In a recent post, Erin stated that, upon hearing of someone's death, she prays for that person's soul. I will do so for Ted Kennedy. As regards his political legacy, addition by subtraction.

Davis
August 26, 2009 8:37 AM

All the potential for greatness he possessed he squandered...

He was undoubtedly a flawed man, as we all are. But it's hard to argue his potential for greatness was squandered. No, he never became president. Instead, he committed his life to public service, became the most powerful and influential legislator of the 20th Century, and spent his time representing the needs of the poor, the oppressed, and the disenfranchised. That doesn't sound like a squandered life to me.

He was a stalwart defender of progressive and populist issues.

Heather
August 26, 2009 9:20 AM

“But it's hard to think of him this morning without thinking about what might have been had he been able to bear the burden of history and his slain brothers' legacies. He could have done so much more with what he had been given.”

Huh….this is really overly critical. Being the most influential modern Senator is a pretty big deal. Its more than you, I and almost everyone else will ever accomplish.

thomas tucker
August 26, 2009 9:42 AM

So, he accomplished a lot, but not as much as he could have.
That is the bottom line.
Roland- is that the obituary equivalent of the back-handed compliment?
I think it would have been better if you truly had not said
anything.

Thomas R
August 26, 2009 9:46 AM

"his sister started the special olympics."

TR: She seems to have been a very admirable woman, but I'm not sure how much that sounds about him. It's sad that Jean lost two siblings so close together.

Also, although I liked it on first reading on reflection I agree "squandered his potential" is probably overstating the matter. I'm hesitant to go too into that, but he quite possibly went as far as he was actually capable. That might sound a bit snide too, but it's difficult for me to know the right thing to say seeing how I felt about him in life.

iw
August 26, 2009 9:56 AM

Upon arriving at the Pearly Gates, Ted Kennedy is greeted by the gate keeper of the day, Mary Jo Kopechne.

Alicia
August 26, 2009 10:06 AM

I admire the man who let go of his ambition to be President with real grace, and who embraced a second marriage that, by all reports, was a very loving and healthy one. He was a great Senator, and it is a testament to his greatness that so many people across the aisle loved him.

A friend of mine with great experience in Democratic politics said that Ted Kennedy accomplished far more in his life, in a practical sense, than his late brothers ever did. Would that have been so without his flaws? It is the end of an era, and he will be greatly missed.

Joel
August 26, 2009 10:15 AM

Rod, have you read anything that Judge Bork has written in the past 10 years? We dodged a bullet thanks to Ted Kennedy.

Tom Degan
August 26, 2009 10:15 AM
http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

The lion sleeps....

"....to speak for those who have no voice; to remember those who are forgotten; to respond to the frustration and fulfill the aspiration of all Americans seeking a better life in a better land....for all those whose cares have been our concern, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die."

Edward Moore Kennedy, August 12, 1980

I'll never forget the night Ted Kennedy gave that speech at the Democratic National Convention after failing to win his party's nomination for the presidency. I was staying in a one-room kitchenette in Liverpool, NY, just outside of Syracuse. It was - and remains - the greatest political oration of my lifetime. Watching the event on a small, black and white TV I instinctively knew I was witnessing one of those sublime moments in American history that would be remembered a century into the future.

Teddy Kennedy died late last night at the age of seventy-seven. In a life that is littered with ironies, here's the biggest one of all: His three older brothers - Joe, Jack and Bobby - are eternally frozen in our imagination as the personifications of youth. How poignant that our final image of the baby of that family will be as an old man, frail and mortally ill.

An incredible realization just came to me: Teddy represented the state of Massachusetts for forty-six years, eight months and nineteen days. That is nearly three months longer than all the years his older brother Jack lived on earth. Forgive the cliche that is so overused it has become trite through repetition, but this really is the end of an era.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

sigaliris
August 26, 2009 10:18 AM

Part of the legacy Edward Kennedy and his siblings received was toxic parenting plus alcohol abuse. Joe Kennedy Sr. set an example of cheating, lying, drinking, adultery and using his children to make himself look good. Behind the LIFE magazine glamor shots was some ugly stuff that unfortunately carried over into the lives of the next generations. Mary Jo Kopechne wasn't the only one who got trashed along the way. This kind of thing knows no left or right. Politics on all sides is knee-deep in people trying to medicate themselves with the drug of power.

fish
August 26, 2009 10:20 AM

And what "faith" was that: Christian? Catholic? Jewish? Muslim? Orthodox?

The truest, purest faith of all.....the belief that there was no problem so insignificant or trivial that that the federal government shouldn't implement an expensive and wasteful program to effect a remedy.

Phreeque shooooooooooooooooo
August 26, 2009 10:22 AM

The End of the Irishtocracy. Wonder if he'll get a Catholic funeral?

Charles Foster Kane
August 26, 2009 10:30 AM


He could have done so much more with what he had been given.

Yes, I've often had the same thought about Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, William Jennings Bryan and Robert LaFollette. Could have done SO much more than just being among the most influential political leaders in American history.

Slackers.

Blairburton
August 26, 2009 10:36 AM

"Part of the legacy Edward Kennedy and his siblings received was toxic parenting plus alcohol abuse. Joe Kennedy Sr. set an example of cheating, lying, drinking, adultery and using his children to make himself look good"

I am reminded of the remark, attributed to Harry S Truman during the 1960
election, that it wasn't the Pope he was afraid of should JFK win, but the Pop.

RSG
August 26, 2009 10:40 AM
http://rsgreen30.wordpress.com

I've been thinking about this since my alarm clock woke me up with the news and as I've read the above comments, I decided to share my thoughts.

One of the things I think is so devastating about American politics today and a good deal of the reason why we're in the hole we're in is this incessant desire/need to vilify the other side, to create the "other" in our opponents. Kennedy (all of them) were deeply flawed men who were drawn to political and public life for complicated reasons, both altruistic and selfish. They are all of us.

One of the things I'm learning in my journey through Orthodoxy is that we all wage wars against our passions. Our own sins are the only ones we should be concerned about. But on the flip side, because we are created in the image of God, even as we struggle, fall and fail, we can still do a tremendous amount of good, right alongside the bad.

Sen. Kennedy's legacy not only includes that poor woman in the river, but making higher education accessible to nearly all, helping people with disabilities have an easier time navigating our city streets and businesses. He was, unquestionably, a tireless advocate for the poor and the have-nots in this culture. On that front, he was certainly closer to the ideal than I myself am.

I can throw no stones, but I will offer a prayer for his soul.

Rob the Rev
August 26, 2009 10:49 AM

Let you who are without sin cast the first stone.

F.X. Brownstein
August 26, 2009 10:52 AM

May He Rest in God's Peace.

What do you think the likelihood is that Cardinal Sean O'Malley will celebrate his funeral Mass?

sally rogers
August 26, 2009 10:55 AM

Ted Kennedy stirs up a very sad kind of disappointment in me -- I do think he tried very hard to do much for the poor and those with no one else to speak for them, and for that I am grateful. I can't help but think how influential he could have been in speaking up for the same kind of concern and care we should be extending to the unborn as he urged for other groups whose dignity and worth were diminished in our society. Over 50 million human beings consigned to a violent end... I will never understand the disconnect that he was able to maintain on this issue.

Thankfully, I don't have to determine his account balance - whether the "good" he did (and even if I am uncertain about whether his legislative victories were the best policies, it is undeniable that he did much that was very good through it), was cancelled out by the neglect and harm done by his extremely public dismissal of the humanity of the unborn that is implicit in the denial of these "least of our brothers".

At the very least, it is a powerful cautionary tale. I am sure that I am susceptible to blindness and moral contradictions in my life as well. I have to say that although I was one who did not appreciate Ted Kennedy as much as those who agreed with his policies, there is something very shocking and disagreeable to me to hear people using the ocassion of his death to express personal attacks on the man. We are all going to die and face a judgment. Have some respect.

God rest him. May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.

AnotherBeliever
August 26, 2009 10:59 AM

Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, a leading Shiite figure in Iraq's convoluted politics is also dead. The Shiites who actually serve in Iraq's parliament have made some kind of an alliance over and against the current Prime Minister, Nouri Al Maliki. Should be an interesting few weeks there. But when isn't it?

Ted Kennedy and Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim. What a day already...

Reaganite in NYC
August 26, 2009 11:36 AM

Yes, I'll pray for the man's soul. I'm also glad, though, that this 50+ year Kennedy soap-opera is finally over. The hype was so monstrous that it became impossible to separate fact from myth when it came to the politically active children of Joe and Rose Kennedy. In the end, Teddy was a flawed human being who had the good fortune to spend almost ALL of his adult life doing interesting "work" at taxpayer expense. Nothing particularly special or extraordinary about that. Massachusetts politics is all about this type: the life-long party hack.

Charles Foster Kane
August 26, 2009 12:02 PM


Massachusetts politics is all about this type: the life-long party hack.

This remark could not be more absurd. If the phrase "party hack" applies to Ted Kennedy, then it has no meaning whatsoever.

Alicia
August 26, 2009 12:12 PM

Reaganite,

I somehow can't imagine your hero would be so ungracious.

Erin Manning
August 26, 2009 12:36 PM

Prayers for his soul.

Cecelia
August 26, 2009 12:37 PM

I have at times watched Ted Kennedy on TV and thought about the losses he endured - his oldest brother killed in the war, two brothers assasinated, three (?) nephews dead of stupidity, his own son with bone cancer at a young age and the subsequent amputation. The weight of that family with all their plusses and minuses. If I had that burden to carry - if that day in Dallas was part of my family history - I think I'd try to find a way to deaden the pain - and drink is the standard Irish way to do that.

He seemed as he got older to have tamed some of those demons. I for sure could not judge him (or anyone ). If he is greeted at the pearly gates by Mary Jo Kopechne - well - then it would be as per that place - a greeting of repentance and forgiveness.

He was a great legislator and a voice for those who are overlooked. More than most of us will ever do.

In paradisum deducant te Angeli; in tuo adventu suscipiant te martyres, et perducant te in civitatem sanctam Ierusalem. Chorus angelorum te suscipiat, et cum Lazaro quondam paupere æternam habeas requiem.

fish
August 26, 2009 12:48 PM


I somehow can't imagine your hero would be so ungracious.

I can!

Not in public of course but I imagine there are, in private, more than a few champagne corks flying as we speak. I also imagine that those corks are being popped quietly on both sides of the political spectrum.

I never agree with Reaganite but "Party Hack" and party hack writ large it is.

RSG
August 26, 2009 1:01 PM

Cecelia, what a beautiful post. I thought the same thing. I also thought how he belonged to a different time and of a family with Shakespearian tragedies.

Charles Cosimano
August 26, 2009 1:05 PM

Verily my heart of flint is thinking of the Kennedy's ill-fated attempt to run for President in 1980. The then mayor of Chicago, Jane Byrne endorsed him and he was invited to march in the St. Patrick's Day parade alongside here, which almost ended more than his campaign.

Jane Byrne was so unpopular with her sewer workers that they were greeted by a raging mob of drunken semi-literates along the parade route and Kennedy's secret service guards formed a ring around him and moved him away from the mayor, as everyone watching on television was hoping to see a lynching, as none of us had ever seen one.

It was probably the only entertaining thing Kennedy ever did in his entire career, with the possible exception of offering to take President Carter for a ride in the family limo...

Andrea
August 26, 2009 1:05 PM

Kennedy served for 45 years and devoted his life to liberal causes and social justice. He was still making calls to get universal health care passed while he was on his death bed. His stamp will be on legislation and policies in this country for generations to come. He was loved by his family, respected by his peers, and is mourned by people all over the world. He made his mistakes and had his foibles, but his life was certainly NOT a "tragedy." I greatly admired him and was so sorry to hear of his death. That's not a wasted life. That's a life to be proud of and to use as an example for those who want to follow his lead.

Charles Foster Kane
August 26, 2009 1:08 PM


Regardless of whether "party hack" is ungracious, it's just preposterous. You can't call someone a party "hack" who helped make the party what it is the first place. Hacks also don't play major roles in crafting legislation or putting together coalitions to get it passed. They sit around and vote the way they're told to. Again, there are plenty of things to criticize Kennedy for if you're so inclined, but if the term "hack" applies to him then it applies to anyone, and therefore can't help us distinguish one kind of legislator from another.

Alicia
August 26, 2009 1:08 PM

fish, even in private, I think Ronald Reagan was a better man than that. If some on both sides are secretly celebrating Kennedy's death, it does no credit to them as people.

Your Name
August 26, 2009 1:16 PM

Fish (quoting Alicia) I somehow can't imagine your hero would be so ungracious.

IFish said: I can!

I say -- I think by "your hero," Alicia meant Ronald Reagan. I do not think that Ronald Reagan would be popping champagne corks over the death of a political opponent, were he here to do so.

The hatefulness and shallowness of such a sentiment are disgraceful. Death and suffering are the "great equalizers," and those who effect to trivialize and disdain the ocassion of them are in for a great shock when they have to confront them in their loved ones or on their own. Even a "political hack" is a human being with an immortal soul, one of those Christ suffered and died for.

sally rogers
August 26, 2009 1:17 PM

oops - 1:16 post is me.

Rob
August 26, 2009 1:25 PM

From an almost Literature major: One could as well call the saga of Ted Kennedy a Christian comedy. The story of a person of low estate brought to glory. He certainly was not born to low estate but his heroic sized flaws were overcome in a life of service to and for the poor, disadvantaged, and abused. Only the churlish and those who would refuse to recognize the good he has done in his long life.

Reaganite in NYC
August 26, 2009 1:28 PM

Oh dear: of course, we feel for his family, and we pray for him, too. But he was of a type common in Massachusetts politics: the party hack who attempts to live off the taxpayers all their working lives. Those of us who grew up within the reach of the Boston media market are all too familiar with these hangers-on. Howie Carr of The Boston Herald has built a journalistic career chronicling them all. Teddy Kennedy was merely a very gross distortion of the type.

A part of me feels profoundly sorry for him for the same reasons I feel sorry for a Michael Jackson or an Elvis Presley. The hype and hagiography long ago dehumanized and objectified the man. I would strongly recommend Garry Wills' "The Kennedy Imprisonment," published in the early 1980s. Wills writes with sympathy about Teddy, who was an ordinary guy trapped within the Kennedy legacy and weighed down by unbelievable expectations.

By all means, pray for his soul. But let's not suggest him as a role model for anyone.

As for these routine characterizations of him as the "lion of the Senate," let's not forget that were it not for his duplicity in the summer of 1969 and the raw use of his family's power to execute a cover-up, he might still be serving time in the slammer for manslaughter involving Mary Jo Kopechne.

Joel
August 26, 2009 1:33 PM

We don't need to speculate: Ronald Reagan and Ted Kennedy had dinner together, along with their wives, many times.

Andrea
August 26, 2009 1:33 PM

For a list of his accomplishments, I refer you to the New York Times obituary. He was a man who did good work for 46 years. Chappaquiddick is a blot on his record, as are the traditional Kennedy flaws of drinking and womanizing, but he lived to do great things that improved people's lives. He stood for the poor. Ronald Reagan didn't do nearly as much for the people who really needed it.

Alicia
August 26, 2009 1:42 PM

Hi, Reaganite. I don't deny that Ted Kennedy got away a crime - what I believe was negligent homicide or manslaughter, and that was certainly the result of his family's influence, and was a miscarriage of justice. I also think he made some amends (though by no means complete amends) for his sins through his dedication to public service. It seems to me that you are calling him a hack because you disagree with his politics, and that doesn't seem quite fair to me.

Elizabeth Anne
August 26, 2009 1:45 PM

CNN posted this amazing story about Kennedy today:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/26/littlest.refusenik.kennedy/index.html

RSG
August 26, 2009 1:52 PM

Hey Reaganite--do you know anything about Kennedy? I'm not going to debate HOW his family came into their money, but he didn't need to "live off the public dime." He probably didn't even need to work. In his early years he worked as a prosecutor in Boston...was paid $1.

fish
August 26, 2009 1:52 PM

I say -- I think by "your hero," Alicia meant Ronald Reagan. I do not think that Ronald Reagan would be popping champagne corks over the death of a political opponent, were he here to do so.

I know exactly to whom Alicia was referring. You might be right though, Reagan might not have popped the champagne corks. I don't know if he was even partial to the stuff.

The hatefulness and shallowness of such a sentiment are disgraceful. Death and suffering are the "great equalizers," and those who effect to trivialize and disdain the ocassion of them are in for a great shock when they have to confront them in their loved ones or on their own. Even a "political hack" is a human being with an immortal soul, one of those Christ suffered and died for.

Funny, I don't feel disgraced at all! Shallow? Certainly! Hateful, a little! For I have seen the works of Ted and I've seen them up close! I know how bad his legacy is. Still, I've said nothing about the man personally and have confined my thoughts to his..."work" and interaction with the political process. You know that Senator Byrd has already come out of seclusion to change the name of the health care bill to something along the lines of the "Ted Kennedy Health Care...blah, blah, blah"! The body hasn't even cooled and the democrats have begun harvesting political points from his demise. Apparently his "Good Works" will continue.

Reaganite in NYC
August 26, 2009 2:11 PM

Alicia: "It seems to me that you are calling him a hack because you disagree with his politics ..."


I call him a hack because like so many in "public life" he just wouldn't let go. He was just an extreme example of the type. His brother Jack was the junior Senator from Massachusetts and, of course, Teddy had to take over the seat at the ripe, old age of 30 (although the family arranged for a family friend and one of Jack's Harvard roommates to keep the seat warm for two years till Teddy turned legal age). These Kennedy's have used every means -- fair or foul, legal or illegimate -- to manipulate Massachusetts politics (and occasionally the law) to keep their family members in power. It is nothing short of obscene.

Ted Kennedy may be the "stuff of legends" for some, but in New England he and his family are an insufferable annoyance to millions of voters (albeit and regrettably a minority of voters).

During the next couple of days (hopefully not more than that) we will be treated to replays of his concession speech from the 1980 DNC where he speaks of the "dream that never dies." But what exactly what this dream? It was nothing more than a narcisstic desire to put another Kennedy in the White House -- not a real dream with resonance in our hearts but a pedestrian political ambition devoid of substance or of value and meaning to the nation.

Alicia
August 26, 2009 2:15 PM

From the MSN homepage:

""Given our political differences, people are sometimes surprised by how close Ronnie and I have been to the Kennedy family," Nancy Reagan said in a statement from Los Angeles.

"But Ronnie and Ted could always find common ground, and they had great respect for one another," she said, adding, "I considered him an ally and a dear friend. I will miss him.""

What a great example Nancy Reagan sets here of post-partisan politics.

sally rogers
August 26, 2009 2:51 PM

fish - you don't have to feel disgraced to be disgraced. That's part of the point of what "disgraceful" signifies. It is the lack of grace (in a colloquial sense of the term, meaning - you are not being graceful in your conduct). If you felt such a lack, you likely would not be truly disgraced. It kind of proves the point that you don't feel it to be so.

Spambalaya
August 26, 2009 2:59 PM

He made his mistakes and had his foibles, but his life was certainly NOT a "tragedy." I greatly admired him and was so sorry to hear of his death. That's not a wasted life. That's a life to be proud of and to use as an example for those who want to follow his lead.

Amen and amen. (With the sole reservation that one should seek to emulate his professional and not his early private life, of course.) Edward Kennedy's life was not a tragedy but rather a resounding triumph over tragedy. While his very human flaws were many and his personal losses great, his achievements on behalf of the poor, the elderly, the disenfranchised, the disabled, infants and children, single mothers, minorities, and working men and women are legion and immeasurably affected millions of lives for the better. I find it odd that anyone would characterize such a purposeful and accomplished life as "tragic."

God rest and keep you in the next life, good sir. You have done much, much good in this one.

Jillian
August 26, 2009 3:04 PM


Ted Kennedy was a man was a man who, despite terrible flaws and errors, grew a large heart and into integrity. Into service and a real love of his fellow Americans.

The same is difficult to say of his opponents, rivals, and critics.

Alicia
August 26, 2009 3:05 PM

Hi, Reaganite. You can certainly argue that many members of the Senate have been there too long, and if you like, propose term limits for the Senate. But, not wanting to let go does not make one a hack - it just makes one human.

I take your point, and your frustration with the Kennedy mystique. However, I think Ted Kennedy graciously gave up his dream of the Presidency, and I don't think he was any more narcissistic than the average politician or celebrity.

Your Name
August 26, 2009 3:16 PM

1) But he was of a type common in Massachusetts politics: the party hack who attempts to live off the taxpayers all their working lives.

Really? Have you seen his house? Kennedy did not need his salary; in fact, I understand that he spent from his own pocket to hire additional staff for his Senate office.

Again, he is eminently criticizable, but not for that reason.

2) The dispute about Chappaquiddick in the 1970s was between the majority, who thought that it was "just" an alcohol-fueled accident and therefore sad but unimportant, and nutters who thought that Kennedy had covered up an intentional murder. Kennedy got off too easily among the former group -- drunk driving was not considered a very serious transgression; note that MADD was not founded until 1980 -- and took unwarranted abuse from the latter group.

alkali
August 26, 2009 3:17 PM

"Your Name" with pts 1) and 2) above is me. Darn captcha.

Jillian
August 26, 2009 3:24 PM


UPDATE: And what he did to Judge Bork is one of his most noxious legacies.

Yet Bob Bork turned out to be the prevaricating radical activist and loveless occultist he was charged with being. If you're consistent in this, Rod, you would only have outcome-based objections to putting Catherine MacKinnon on the Supreme Court as well.

Charles Foster Kane
August 26, 2009 3:41 PM


.....the party hack who attempts to live off the taxpayers all their working lives.

This describes Kennedy? "Live off the taxpayers"? Reaganite, are you freakin' serious? Senators make, what, something in the very low six figures? Yeah, that's it, that's why Kennedy stayed in the Senate and was such an active legislator all those years. Right. That and the free parking. I mean, do you have any idea how much money that family has?

.....he might still be serving time in the slammer for manslaughter involving Mary Jo Kopechne.

Again -- seriously? FORTY YEARS for *manslaughter*? Even in Singapore you're talking about, like, 20 years tops. Or maybe you think the Massachusetts police would have taken a few decades to solve the crime? Not real good CSI work in that state, I guess?

These are just the oddest comments I've seen on this blog in some time. And that's saying something.

BrianF
August 26, 2009 3:44 PM

Jillian,

You are so eager to excuse the failings of Ted Kennedy and extend graciousness to him. How can you not see your own hypocrisy in your criticisms of conservatives for their human failings in the comments here?

fish
August 26, 2009 3:47 PM

fish - you don't have to feel disgraced to be disgraced. That's part of the point of what "disgraceful" signifies. It is the lack of grace (in a colloquial sense of the term, meaning - you are not being graceful in your conduct). If you felt such a lack, you likely would not be truly disgraced. It kind of proves the point that you don't feel it to be so.

Again, I said nothing personal about the man and confined my comments to his public affairs. And of course your stating it proves absolutely nothing. No surprise there.

Rest assured the notion that Sally Rogers considers me to be disgraceful shant cost me a moments rest!

Spambalaya
August 26, 2009 4:32 PM

These are just the oddest comments I've seen on this blog in some time. And that's saying something.

Really? Lessee, I think I still have the link to the Miley Cyrus poledancing thread around here somewhere...

Hector
August 26, 2009 4:33 PM

Um, Mr. Kennedy was not a murderer. He committed involuntary manslaughter. Which is a very grave sin and a serious crime, and if I were a member of the Kopechne family I might be cursing his name every day for the past 40 years. And he is having to answer it before God even now. But it isn't murder. If the judges had taken the harshest possible view of his offence (which is unlikely) the worst he could _possibly_ have gotten is 20 years in prison, and he would have gotten out 20 years ago.

I didn't much like him as a person, and the last time he was up for election (I lived in MA then) I voted Socialist as a protest. But he did a lot of good with his life, as well as some seriously bad things (specifically his leaving Miss Kopechne to die, and his change from a pro-life to a pro-choice stance) and I think there is much to applaud him and thank him for. This is a time to focus on the good in his life, and to hope that he finds mercy with God.

Reaganite in NYC
August 26, 2009 4:47 PM

Alicia: "However, I think Ted Kennedy graciously gave up his dream of the Presidency ..."


Actually, he didn't "graciously give up" his dream. He wanted it, and fought for it, but the Democratic primary voters looked elsewhere.

I know I've been a bit hard on old Teddy. However, in fairness, one wonders whether being President was really HIS dream ... or, rather, the expectations of others brought to bear on what was basically an ordinary and somewhat over-indulged youngest sibling of a large and ambitious family. I mention again Garry Wills' 1982 book, "The Kennedy Imprisonment" for the best treatment of the hell that being Ted Kennedy must have been at times.

Yes, yes, by all means pray for his soul and for his loved ones. But let's not re-do Mount Rushmore or set aside D.C. real estate for a monument. Or, foolishly pass the kind of so-called health care bill that he would have favored.

Alicia
August 26, 2009 5:01 PM

Hi, Reaganite - I like Garry Wills and check out his book - thanks for the recommendation.

Perhaps we differ over the definition of gracious. I can only say that it is possible, based on some of Ted Kennedy's early troubles, to imagine very different and much less positive outcomes for his life, and the fact that he came to terms with being a good Senator rather than being President strikes me as a form of grace.

Phreeque shooooooooooooooooo
August 26, 2009 6:08 PM

In 1987, I helped clear out the residence of a dead Irish-catholic lady, herself in her eighties. On a small table in her living room were pictures of all three dead Kennedy brothers with used candles in front of each one.
I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Nomilk
August 26, 2009 6:29 PM

I admire the man who . . . embraced a second marriage that, by all reports, was a very loving and healthy one.

What's so admirable about that? That sentiment strikes me as evidence of a sick subservience to the divorce culture.

I would admire the man who was faithful to his first wife and stood by her through her difficulties.

The Sicilian Woman
August 26, 2009 6:34 PM

Hector He committed "involuntary" manslaughter?

Waiting HOURS (until the next morning) to report that, oh, by the way, there's a woman trapped in his car that's underwater is NOT involuntary when he's voluntarily, and quite ably on his own, gotten his butt-saving self out alive.

Oh, please.

Charles Foster Kane
August 26, 2009 6:45 PM


Spambalaya, I forgot about the Miley Cyrus thread. I stand corrected.

Nomilk
August 26, 2009 6:45 PM

Yet Bob Bork turned out to be the prevaricating radical activist and loveless occultist he was charged with being.

Wow, even in death, Ted Kennedy through his minions lashes out at a thoroughly decent man who was dishonorably treated by the deceased.

To anyone who knows anything other than what People for the American Way has spoon-fed you, Robert Bork was a brilliant and thoroughly mainstream legal mind. A former assistant solicitor general once noted to me that, in his long experience, Bork gave the only oral argument in a Supreme Court case that ever changed the Court's mind (the case was an antitrust case, an area in which Bork is an acknowledged expert).

To the extent your comments are worth dignifying with an answer, Bork resigned from the federal bench after his failed nomination to the SCOTUS, so there is absolutely no basis whatsoever to subsequently call him a "radical activist."

He is also a faithful Catholic convert, so your charge of "loveless occultist" is a libel--to the extent it has any meaning whatsoever.

Jon
August 26, 2009 7:00 PM

Re: Wow, even in death, Ted Kennedy through his minions lashes out at a thoroughly decent man who was dishonorably treated by the deceased.

Judge Bork is on public record as stating that the Ninth Amendment is nothing but an "Ink stain" on the Constitution. A judge who feels that way about any portion of the Bull of Rights has no business coming anywhere near the Supreme Court.

fish
August 26, 2009 7:40 PM

A judge who feels that way about any portion of the Bull (Bill?) of Rights has no business coming anywhere near the Supreme Court.

Lets see how our wise Latina deals with 2nd amendment issue and get back to me!

Nomilk
August 26, 2009 8:06 PM

Judge Bork is on public record as stating that the Ninth Amendment is nothing but an "Ink stain" on the Constitution. A judge who feels that way about any portion of the Bull of Rights has no business coming anywhere near the Supreme Court.

You continue the frankly creepy attacks on Judge Bork. And like most such attacks, yours is rooted in staggering ignorance.

What Bork wrote was that the Ninth Amendment was like an "ink blot" because, in his view, its meaning is so indeterminate that there is no sure way to apply it. What he went on to say is that if some other words of a law were actually covered with an ink blot, we wouldn't want judges making up law by guessing what words were under the blot.

Your command of jurisprudence? Epic fail.

Roland de Chanson
August 26, 2009 9:31 PM

thomas tucker: is that the obituary equivalent of the back-handed compliment? I think it would have been better if you truly had not said anything.

I indeed said nothing.

Except: requiescat in pace. You might have said as much.

But noblesse oblige, and I therefore accept your ignoble rebuke.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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