Religious Left prays to Obama

"And it's the kind of thing guaranteed to drive far-right paranoia over Obama-as-messiah."

Depends what you mean by "paranoia": just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you can't be persecuted, and you've presented evidence that some folks think of the dude this way right in front of our eyes. Glenn Beck is indeed bad, bad bad for America, but right-wing concerns about how the Left adores Obama are to some extent justified.

"And it's the kind of thing guaranteed to drive far-right paranoia over Obama-as-messiah."

You mean like this paranoia? //blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/08/the-making-of-obama-messiah.html

Or maybe you mean this? //blog.beliefnet.com/crunchycon/2008/06/obama-messiah.html

You do know, Rod, that right-wing nutcases were crying about "Obama the Messiah" long before this video surfaced, and will do so long after it is forgotten. Yes, the video is stupid, and feeds into the stupidity of the right.

But, some on the right were early partakers of that kool-aid, weren't they Rod?

Yes, Rod, if you do not give a list of names, RJohnson and his masterful intellect get all confused and think you're accusing every person of a leftist bent whose ever so much as muttered "Thank God" of being part of this crowd.

The big question is why the partisan rigth and left conduct themselves as though they have sand permanently wedged in their panties?

The jesuscamp video was creepy, but they didn't take a response in the liturgy and turn a prayer TO God into a prayer TO Obama. Praying OVER a cardboard figure isn't the same as the blasphemy in the Religious Left video. (And if I could figure out how to italicize, I wouldn't have SCREAMED the 3 words above.)

texasaggiemom, point taken (italics or not!). I think both examples are creepy and embarrassing. Religious hysteria on either side of the political aisle is unappealing. I'm disgusted by the way that many prominent Christian conservatives have now agreed that Obama is in fact a Muslim. Despite the pretty obvious fact that he's not, it's sad that one's religious inclination alone can be seen as thorough indication of untrustworthiness or immorality. Usually this kind of smear comes from the extreme nonreligious left in the form of smearing all Christians as conservative freaks. I guess now it goes both ways.

"Yes, Rod, if you do not give a list of names, RJohnson and his masterful intellect get all confused and think you're accusing every person of a leftist bent whose ever so much as muttered "Thank God" of being part of this crowd."

No...a better approach would have been to simply say "Some on the Religious Left Pray to Obama". After all, Rod was quite firm in reminding us that the Baptist minister who prayed for Obama to die and go to hell was not representative of all conservative Christians. One would think that he would offer his opposition the same grace that he claims for his side of the aisle.

Is that too much to ask, especially in light of his comments earlier today?

"Look, I'm not against playing political hardball when necessary, but to think that success should be measured by what pisses off your opponents the most is a fairly degraded way to conceive of politics. If it were true, Al Sharpton would be King of the Democrats."

M.B.--I agree. The religious hysteria on both sides is embarassing. I don't think any rational person could believe President Obama is a "closet Muslim", nor do I think he's a particularly observant Christian. But that's really absolutely none of my business and is between him, his family and God Almighty.

However, I do believe that all Christians should be praying for our leaders, whether we agree with them or not. I pray for our President and Congress to have discernment and wisdom daily. After that, it's in God's hands.

PS--my 2:58 comment was directed at Your Name's 2:51 comment.

I agree with what you're saying. However, I watched this video on the Gamaliel website (without subtitles) and it sure sounds a lot like they're saying "Here our cry O God." I'm wondering if the subtitles aren't encouraging us to hear things that aren't really there.

I just realized that this post was tagged "health care reform." My husband and I were talking last night how many (firmly middle class) people we know who will be left to figure out ways to keep themselves and their families healthy/alive as insurance premiums rise and people are simply financially unable to insure themselves--particularly since we know a few folks who just lost their jobs. It actually came up because a woman in a pregnancy group I belong to just found out that her husband's new job's insurance plan has an exclusion clause for pregnancy care, and pregnancy is legally considered a pre-existing condition in this state. She's trying to figure out what her options are, ASAP!

I think a lot of Americans are kind of depending on some change for the better (and sooner rather than later) in their health care situation. (They'll be sorely disappointed: assuming that the Dems manage to pass anything remotely effective, it won't be enacted until several years from now). Anyway, I know it sounds hysterical, but if your daughter had diabetes or leukemia and you just lost your job, it actually doesn't seem that far-fetched that you'd be desperately praying for some kind of salvation from your political leaders…

I'll just point out that petitioning Obama for health care reform is a good deal more likely to produce results than petitioning God for it.

Regardless, it does go to show the degree to which faith and politics has been conflated here in the US.

Glad to see that conservatives are waking up to how that's a bad thing.

I agree with the others. They're definitely saying "O God," not "Obama."

Rod Dreher
September 29, 2009 3:37 PM
Well, I just posted the Gamaliel video. I'm not exactly sure what they're saying at every turn. People can judge for themselves. If I've misled people, I apologize. But I'm not sure that I have.

Any way you slice it, it is still creepy...

Well, I just posted the Gamaliel video

Actually, you're not posting the Gamaliel video. Go to the Gamaliel website: http://www.gamaliel.org/default.htm. The video there has no subtitles. Presumably the words were added later, either by Breitbart or by someone else.

re: my last comment. You "just posted" it as in you "just now posted" it, not "only posted" it. Upon refreshing the screen and seeing your new update, I understand what you mean.

"I suspect the subtitles have influenced what people are hearing. "

Fed into their own biases, more like. Remember, Rod was running the "Obama as Messiah" over a year ago on this blog.

They are saying, "O God." When "d" is pronounced rather than swallowed, a shadow vowel results. (Singers and people trained in public speaking know this....)

can you or mark levin be certain that they're not saying 'osama'?

heard it several times. that last prayer does say "O, God" but all the others were clearly saying Obama

"BobN
September 29, 2009 4:18 PM
I'm sort of impressed that someone managed to gather "the religious Left" into one place, though I must confess that I'm a bit saddened to see that there aren't more people in "the religious Left"."

Bob, to take it so hard, you can't expect that many, they are, after all, liberals.

;-p

From Mark Shea's blog entry on the video:

"UPDATE: Listening to this video with my eyes shut, I'm hearing some in the crowd saying "Hear us, Obama", but I'm also thinkin' the helpful interpretive text guides inserted by the videomakers are supplying verbiage that ain't there on the soundtrack. So I chalk this one up to a slight advantage for the organizers of the rally in the video who are, thank God, not such fools as to actually bid their followers to pray to Obama (though some of the followers sound to me like they are doing so). The makers of the video are, I think, letting their hostility to Obama tell them what their itching ears want to hear."

Itching ears...nah, never would happen.

Without looking at the video, it does sound like they are saying "O God" and not "Obama." Kinda hard to tell. But it is pretty bizarre . . and I'm both a man of faith and pro-health care reform!

and what of that bowing down before The Gloved One a few months ago. . .

. . nearer mi-chael to thee!.

disgusting! thank god there are people who are bringing these things to our attention!

RJohnson,

I am much mor einterested in learning who p!$$ed in your cheerios than in the topic at hand. Its the screeching, itching and burning, constant wail of american political partisans that fascinates me.

What is it about american politics that reduces you guys to titty-babies?

Cheap shot. Liberal Christians pray to God, not idols.

A man hears what he wants to hear, but it's pretty clear to me that they're all calling "Oh God" the whole way through.

It's an artefact of the recording, and the size of the congregation, I think. As the sound arrives later from those further away, there's something like an echo-effect. The last syllable gets repeated, more faintly. So what we're hearing is "DELIVER US, OH GO(-god)". When the consonants aren't very clear, the stress pattern there, with the fall-away at the end, is extremely similar to that of OH BA(-MA), at least as you Americans pronounce your As. So they're all saying "Oh God", just not all at the same time.

Emily Litella, thou shouldst be living at this hour.

It starts out Oh God and ends with a mix of Oh God and Obama. Mainly because they change their reference from Scripture to that of Obama's health care agenda.

Seriously, that's it? That's what you got? I don't know how anyone could hear that they were praying to Obama. But, what if this particular group of people was? Ok, they're crazy. What, in the wide, wide world of sports does that have to do with anything real? This is what, a group of 100 people? Does anyone really think that most "liberals" pray to Obama. I thought most liberals were akin to godless commies. Why would they be praying to anyone? In fact, those who are most liberal don't much like Obama right now. How does that fit in with him being the diety. Yikes.

WCA

Aloha,

I was the organizer for Gamaliel for this action - we were trying to get the attention of a large insurance comapny (UHC). I voted for Obama, and most us in Hawaii like him - but praying to him would be crazy, not to mention sacrilegious.

Here's the liturgy we used for the record:

With the prophet Jeremiah, we cry out, Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why then has the health of my poor people not been restored?
Hear our cry, oh God!

With the prophet Martin Luther King Jr., we cry out, Of all the forms of inequality, injustice in health care is the most shocking and inhumane.
Hear our cry, oh God!

From health care systems and industries that place profit over people,
Deliver us, oh God!

Well, I just posted the Gamaliel video. I'm not exactly sure what they're saying at every turn. People can judge for themselves. If I've misled people, I apologize. But I'm not sure that I have.

Rod, if you're going to post something this inflammatory, you'd damn well better be sure it's accurate.

RJohnson, "tu quoque" ("Oh, yeah, but so do you!")ceased being a valid argument about 3000 years ago.
Separate church and state. Want to get the attention of religious idiots, Right and Left? Get rid of the unconstitutional clergy housing allowance.
Preach on your own dimes, idiots.

I can't imagine that they'd say "Obama" for some but in some others "God." So perhaps I heard wrong...If I've wrongly accused these folks, I do apologize.

Having claimed an absence of malice you can't be sued for libel. Congratulations! You've mastered the defamation two-step.

An "if/then" apology seems rather weak, given your endorsement of this lie. A full retraction seems more appropriate. The question before you, Rod, is whether you have more integrity than Glenn Beck.

Typical conservative.

Hear what you want to hear, enjoy the outrage and the jolt of adrenaline it gives you. Almost addictive, isn't it?

The real story in this is the lengths some people will go to -- and the obvious misrepresentations of fact they will employ -- to smear their ideological opponents.

Bears repeating...

The bigger problem here is that Rod's once again rushed to use a single freakish anecdotal incident (or in this case, incorrectly interpreted incident) to draw sweeping conclusions about people he doesn't like.

again, bears repeating...

I think a post from earlier in the month applies well here. From Erin Manning:
---
Erin Manning
September 12, 2009 10:01 PM
With Francis Beckwith on this.
Should the gay rights people, with whom I disagree, have to answer for every idiot who shows up to gay rights parades in various levels of nudity or lewdness? Nope. Should Earth Day rallies have to apologize for the radical animal rights contingent and their various messages equating meat with murder? No; at best, it's nice of them to say, "I don't agree with that message."
I think that many of the people who have attended Tea Party rallies are alarmed about the size and scope of the federal government, including the debt and also the perceived level of interference with ordinary Americans' lives, something neither party has successfully addressed. I think there's an eclectic mix of people drawn to these, some of whom would possibly have voted for Ron Paul if he'd still been a contender by the time the primaries reached their various states. I don't, in my observations made mostly online, see a lot of people who would have naturally been "Palin voters;" though perhaps my observations are faulty. But in any case, I think tarring all the participants with the fringe-lunatic brush is simply ignoring the fact that, as in most such displays, fringe-lunatics are no more able to stay away than moths can ignore a porch light.
---

Rod took an incident that, at first glance (and with the help of some inaccurate subtitles) looks extreme, tied a headline to it that attempts to characterize all of the religious left as holding this position, and then seems surprised when folks react negatively.

Then, when he is shown to be completely wrong about the content of the video, he does NOTHING to change the lede on the story, compounding the false impression he had made in the first place.

Truth be damned...let's score those political points. Shall we now refer to you as Rod Beck?

"For Obama alone is the Holy One, Obama alone is the Lord, Obama alone is the most high...?"
What was done to the Kennedys, what was done to Reagan, what's being done to Obama is sick. And they probably hated most, if not all, of it.
"Pity the people that has no heroes; pity the people that needs them."

This is a religious organization? Who is demanding government inclusively provide all? Politically?

This is one microscopic step from the Dark Ages, again.

I listened to about 30 seconds and had to turn it off. I am so offended by this it makes me furious. We once had a serious scandal in my church... Over the fact that one of the pastors had publicly stated he opposed a certain store being given a liquor license ( we, as a denomination, prohibit the consumption of alcohol ). He was from South Africa and new to the US, and a wide array of church members set him "straight" that our church does not get into politics, not even local politics, and that the pastors absolutely refrain from anything remotely appearing political.

Our church does have a "lobbying" arm, and it's sole function is to provide support for religious freedom, and we expend our resources for pretty much every religion's benefit. The individual cases taken on and the lobbying done, are non partisan and based on our belief that neither Congress, nor states can or should infringe upon the free exercise of religion, and that so far as possible, individuals should not be discriminated against for their religion. Obviously, we don't expect Catholic educational institutions, for instance, to be required to hire Baptist professors or teachers.

I listened carefully to both versions. The Gamaliel Foundation's version is clear and in every instance "God." The Naked Emperor News version is a bit less clear--bad version, intentional manipulation, paranoia?

At this point, the only difference I can see between the Glenn Beck Show and Crunchy Con is that Rod remembered his letter "C."

'Runchy 'On, anyone?

The Anti-Krugman: "You were not given authority for all this crap"

Not exactly sure what "all this crap" refers to, but it appears to be the latest manifestation of the somewhat puzzling conservative argument that a President who promises healthcare reform and then gets elected in a landslide doesn't have a mandate for healthcare reform.

RJohnson: Rod took an incident that, at first glance (and with the help of some inaccurate subtitles) looks extreme, tied a headline to it that attempts to characterize all of the religious left as holding this position, and then seems surprised when folks react negatively.

Then, when he is shown to be completely wrong about the content of the video, he does NOTHING to change the lede on the story, compounding the false impression he had made in the first place.

Truth be damned...let's score those political points. Shall we now refer to you as Rod Beck?

Oh, get off your fainting couch already. I am awfully irritated with the way you turn into a screaming meemie over these things. A headline is of necessity imprecise. If you see a headline in a newspaper that reads "Americans bomb Afghan village," do you have a conniption over the fact that the headline impugned the integrity of every American? Please.

Secondly, while I expect RJohnson to go off like this, I'm peeved at some of you more responsible commentators who assumed, apparently, that I saw the Gamaliel organizer's comment here, and left the post unchanged anyway. The last time I looked at this blog was about 7 last night. I've been very busy since then, which is why there were no fresh posts this morning. You need to understand that this blog is not my day job, but a sideline gig. Many of the posts you see during the day are entries I put up in my off time, and scheduled to appear throughout the day. The last time I updated this post, I tried to do it as honestly as I could -- by posting the Gamaliel version, which still isn't clear to my ears. I was in a hurry to finish an essay I was working on for the paper, but I thought it important to get the competing video up, and to say that I'm not sure whether I was wrong or not on the first video. I literally wasn't last night.

I'm still not, listening to the Gamaliel version, but I'll take the Gamaliel adviser's word for it. I will make that correction in the original post. Sometimes I'll take a post down, other times I'll leave it up to show readers how it got corrected as further information came in. I think it's better to leave this one up as an example of how a story like this can evolve, and how a tendentious hearing of an unclear transcript can be turned into political propaganda. You may disagree with my decision here, but keep your snotty observations about my integrity to yourself, or e-mail me privately to vent your spleen. I am particularly cheesed given that my in-box has been filled up all week with right-wing nuts calling me a communist, a socialist, a liberal traitor, and so forth, for my criticism of Glenn Beck.

Sorry, I'm going to have to shut this thread down. It's being trolled by a particular coward who is not man enough to identify himself, either on this blog or in e-mail.