Crunchy Con

Expect the end of the world. Laugh.

Wednesday October 28, 2009

And other wisdom from Wendell Berry, forwarded to me by reader Gary Seaton: MANIFESTO: THE MAD FARMER LIBERATION FRONT by Wendell Berry Love the quick profit, the annual raise, vacation with pay. Want more of everything ready-made. Be afraid to...
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Comments
itsmike
October 28, 2009 10:47 AM

As I wrote on my Facebook page, this poem captures my philosophy, or at least what I attempt to aspire to. As Paul said in the Epistles, I often manage to do the opposite of what I want to do. We're all trying, though, and Berry's helping to lead the way.

alaskapeter
October 28, 2009 11:25 AM

This is absolutely my favorite poem. Every line is just wonderfully great. One of my favorites:

"Be joyful though you have considered all the facts"

I think that's a good reminder to many of us readers (and writers...) who tend to search out and see the negative and depressing all around us. Have a lovely day, everyone.

Kit Stolz
October 28, 2009 12:20 PM

Words to live by, regardless of political affiliation. Hell, who needs politics at all, after that? Thank you.

gk
October 28, 2009 12:41 PM

Alaskapeter:

Based on your comment, I think you might enjoy this article reviewing two books on Dostoevsky, making the case that Dostoevsky was saying something similar to the line you cited from the poem. Here is a line from the article:

" Predrag Cicovacki, a professor of philosophy at the College of the Holy Cross, focuses on a single injunction that the novice monk Alyosha Karamazov gives to his brother Dmitri near the end of the novel. “Love life,” Alyosha enjoins his troubled sibling,
“more than its meaning.” "

The article was in Touchstone (link 1), but is available for free at the second link.

http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/issue.php?id=151

http://bearspace.baylor.edu/Ralph_Wood/www/Dostoevsky%20and%20Orthodoxy/Dostoevsky_on_the_Iconic_Life.pdf

m.e.graves
October 28, 2009 12:57 PM
http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/15623

I get a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach by saying this because I get the feeling that this may start a flame war, and I want to start off by saying that I like this poem, I really do... with that being said, stylistically, this poem is similar to many poems of Maya Angelou, and yet I recall you writing that her poetry was kitsch.

alaskapeter
October 28, 2009 1:14 PM

GK-

Thank you for the suggestion. I can already tell that I'm going to like the article, being Orthodox and a big fan of Dostoevsky, especially "Brothers Karamazov". Yet another reminder that I should reread that...

Peter

mdavid
October 28, 2009 1:24 PM

m.e.graves,

this poem is similar to many poems of Maya Angelou, and yet I recall you writing that her poetry was kitsch.

Very true. However, MA's poems are generally disordered, while WB's are generally refreshing and rightly ordered. But I agree - both are pretty poor in quality when viewed stylistically. You have to view WB as you would the Shire - simple yet true - to get into it.

Yet there is one example of a WB disordered line in this poem: Praise ignorance, for what man
has not encountered he has not destroyed.


Love these very rightfully ordered lines, however:
Be afraid
to know your neighbors and to die.
And you will have a window in your head.
Not even your future will be a mystery
any more.

and

Swear allegiance
to what is nighest your thoughts.

MargaretE
October 28, 2009 2:15 PM

Funny mdavid, I was going to comment that my favorite line in the poem is the one you've just branded the only disordered line in the poem:

Praise ignorance, for what man
has not encountered he has not destroyed.

I find that line quite profound and beautiful... I think that Berry is equating "ignorance" with "innocence" here. I find it a refreshing idea, especially since your standard "thinker" these days insists upon equating it with "hate." I've often said, right here on this blog, that I encounter more anger, scorn, and ill-will (what you might call "hate") from the educated, sophisticated elite than I EVER do among the working class.

GK
October 28, 2009 2:43 PM

mdavid--

I think you are missing the point of the "ignorance" line too.

I think what he means is more with retaining a proper sense of mystery with our growing knowledge. Basically humanity vs. technocracy. If the world (including human individuals and "humanity", hence the consumer references earlier in the poem) is all just something we (or advertisters/'experts'/politicians) can look at, examine and then make a field of science out of, then we usually end up bungling it up. (E.g. modern deterministic psychology and its reductionist view of humans.)

However, if we don't just view nature (esp. people) as just raw material for our ends but something to be used in a stewardship mentality, with a degree of piety and reverence (hopefully for is maker, more than the creation), then we will accept we may be technologically advanced but still ignorant of many things and 'ends' (like the future!), and then not destroy it as we use it.

GK
October 28, 2009 2:52 PM

If I many add one thing to the earlier point, that to me seems very complementary to W. Berry, it is the point C.S. Lewis makes in "Abolition of Man":

Pre-modern philosophy concerned man conforming to Nature, by means of Virtue. Man had ends and a nature he could fulfill. The converse being modern philosophy, post F. Bacon, making the "end" of Man is man's conquest of nature, to conform Nature to our ends. Mixed in with all this is the current reducing of humans to mere "products of nature" as well. Lewis argues that following Bacon, etc will eventually mean just some people controlling the rest. (See Brave New World, That Hideous Strength.)

Lots of uses of n/Nature being tossed around, sorry about that.

GK
October 28, 2009 3:08 PM

Last post, sorry. In order to avoid the impression that my last post was a quote, rather than my feeble attempt at summarizing, here is the actual quote, in Lewis' words. Please compare to the W. Berry lines. I think recognizing these limitations of man is a key to deep conservatism:

"There is something which unites magic and applied science while separating both from the wisdom of earlier ages. For the wise men of old the cardinal problem had been how to conform the soul to reality, and the solution had been knowledge, self-discipline, and virtue. For magic and applied science alike the problem is how to subdue reality to the wishes of men: the solution is a technique; and both, in the practice of this technique, are ready to do things hitherto regarded as disgusting and impious—such as digging up and mutilating the dead.

If we compare the chief trumpeter of the new era (Bacon) with Marlowe's Faustus, the similarity is striking. You will read in some critics that Faustus has a thirst for knowledge. In reality, he hardly mentions it. It is not truth he wants from the devils, but gold and guns and girls. `All things that move between the quiet poles shall be at his command' and `a sound magician is a mighty god'. In the same spirit Bacon condemns those who value knowledge as an end in itself: this, for him, is to use as a mistress for pleasure what ought to be a spouse for fruit. The true object is to extend Man's power to the performance of all things possible. He rejects magic because it does not work; but his goal is that of the magician..."

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/lewis/abolition3.htm

MargaretE
October 28, 2009 3:57 PM

More thoughts on the curious, beautiful line... Is it possible that Berry is praising not so much "ignorance" as we define it, but rather praising the Man who maintains his innocence, his childlike sense of wonder, even as he grows in knowledge... who respects the creature/Creator relationship, without transgressing those boundaries... who will always resist seeing himself – or any man – as all-knowing or godlike... who maintains a proper sense of humility, and puts a greater premium on creating than deconstructing...?

MMH
October 28, 2009 3:59 PM

I have to agree with m.e.graves that it's not very good as poetry, however much one might agree with the sentiments. But Berry is capable of good poetry, as well. See, for example, the poem he uses as proem to Remembering: Three Short Novels:

...Keep my mind within that Mind
Of which it is a part, whose wholeness is
The hope of sense in what I tell. And though
I go among the scatterings of that sense,
The members of its worldly body broken,
Rule my sight by vision of the parts
Rejoined. And in my exile's journey far
From home, be with me, so I may return.

m.e.graves
October 28, 2009 6:06 PM

This is just personal opinion, but for the same reasons people are giving that this is not good poetry is the reason I think it is good poetry. The way the sentences are dis-organized and broken shows great clarity into what WB feels is important. For instance, in the line

Denounce the government and embrace
the flag

by separating the flag onto a new line adds immense importance to those two words, much more so than had it merely remained at the end of the first line. It is by creating images with these words and by dis-organizing the sentences outside of their standard syntax that you learn the importance of every word that the author wants you to know. I felt the same way reading this poem as I did when I first read the poems of Maya Angelou, Jane Kenyon, and Sylvia Plath. Thank you for that, Mr. Dreher.

alaskapeter
October 28, 2009 6:18 PM

Why, pray tell, is this stylistically "poor" and not "good poetry"? Maybe it's just my simple "ignorance", but simple poems expressing beautiful truths seem pretty good to me.

Mickey
October 28, 2009 6:31 PM

Ah, he is so good. His fiction is good, too...

mdavid
October 28, 2009 10:24 PM

To all who commented:

I don't think I missed the meaning of his line. I've read most of WB's works, and I think I know his mind well. I got it. I just think he is disordered here (and on a few other issues as well I've read in his prose). Probably for the same reasons y'all love it; heck, I would expect nothing less, considering the values and views of the average Rod reader. And that's ok.

Cecelia
October 28, 2009 11:06 PM

I think Berry is a conventional poet who on occasion can be great - his real talent is as an essayist and it is through that form that he most effectiovely communicates his ideas. I think he is the best essayist America has and ranks up there with Thoreau and Emerson.

The problem with a lot of Berry's ideas is they work in a country with about 50 million people - sadly - we are at 300 million now - so to get back to Berry's admittedly idyllic and deeply appealing world - where do we put the other 250 million?

MargaretE
October 29, 2009 7:44 AM

Mdavid, now you've got me curious. Please explain why you think the line is disordered. We've explained why we like it, so it seems only fair. Especially since you've just lumped me in with "the average Rod reader." I DO read this blog regularly, but would be hard-pressed to pin down its "average reader." More than any blog I know, the readers here are all over the map in terms of views and values.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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