Crunchy Con

Godless Europe vs. Godly America

Thursday October 15, 2009

The urbanist Joel Kotkin says Obama's Nobel Peace Prize win says a lot about the priorities of Europe -- they have no leaders of their own, so they're trying to co-opt one of ours they imagine thinks like them -- and little about Obama. Writes Kotkin:

Indeed it's likely that if Obama wanted to run for presidency of the E.U., he could mail it in. Unfortunately for him, he presides over a country that faces a very different future from that of Europe.

This is not to say we cannot learn from Europe in certain areas--namely fuel economy and health care. Republicans dropped the ball on both of these issues, and as a result both our health care system and automobile efficiency pale next to those of the continent.

Still, the reality is that America and Europe are very different, which would necessitate disparate policy approaches. Our growing divergence with Europe spans everything from demographics to economic needs and basic values. In all these areas, the gap is likely to increase over time.

This is why the Obama Administration's Europhilia, now likely to become more pronounced, represents a dangerous temptation.

He goes on to explain why. I thought this was especially interesting:

There are other critical differences. Americans remain more religiously minded. One analyst, David Hart, has spoken of Europe's "metaphysical boredom." Half or more of Europeans never attend church, compared with barely 20% in the U.S.

Among younger Europeans, the loss of traditional Christian identity--with its focus on long-term commitments, sacrifice and responsibility--is virtually complete: According to one Belgian demographer, barely one in 10 young adults in the E.U. maintains any link to an organized religion. In contrast roughly 60% of Americans, according to a Pew Global Attitudes survey, believe religion is "very important," twice the rate of Canadians, Britons, Koreans or Italians and six times the rate of French or Japanese.

Some observers, both in America and abroad, see this spiritualism, particularly among evangelical Christians, as reflecting a kind of social retardation. Yet belief in America is remarkably varied, extending beyond groups that are easily classified as liberal or conservative. In America, a broad "spiritual" focus--dating from the earliest founders and continuing through the transcendentalists and Walt Whitman--persists as a vital force. Even President Obama, whose base tends to be secular, has made much of his religious ties.

I mentioned in an earlier blog post how little I really know about megachurch Christianity, which is huge where I live, North Texas. If you don't live in Dallas or its environs, that's probably your stereotypical idea of what religion is like here. But unlike every other place I've lived, the Protestant mainline churches are still pretty vigorous, and well-attended. The gay MCC church Cathedral of Hope is big. The largest mosque in Texas is here. And so on. Going to religious services is mainstream in the Dallas area in a way I've never seen elsewhere in America. Mind you, Dallas isn't representative of America, but I wonder if, on religious matters, it's true that Dallas is to America as America is to Europe.

Moving along, I think there may be less to this Godly America/Godless Europe thing. If it's true that the religion of America's tomorrow is Moralistic Therapeutic Deism, how much better off are we, anyway? Collin Hansen writes:

For the purposes of restraining sin and promoting the common good, MTD is useless. Those previously disposed to ethical behavior need no vapid creed that tells them to be good, nice, and fair. For those who seek selfish gain by any means, MTD offers no compelling alternative. Smith and Denton write, "What we hardly ever heard from teens was that religion is about significantly transforming people into, not what they feel like being, but what they are supposed to be, what God, or their ethical tradition wants them to be."

If orthodox Christianity gives way to MTD, American public life may further degenerate into a feel-good free-for-all. No merely civil religion, especially one shaped by MTD, can long sustain a free republic by itself. A nation committed only to liberty and the pursuit of happiness will be left wondering why life is so unfulfilling.

Strangely, that's the feeling I got about North Texas culture from reading Hank Stuever's "Tinsel," which tracks the celebration of Christmas here. Oh, we're all super-Jesus-y in the Dallas area, but the impression one is left with is that despite the megachurch religiosity regnant in the 'burbs, there's a deep hole people keep trying to fill with stuff, and with the manic pursuit of success.

Question: From a Christian point of view, is it better to live in a society where Christianity is virtually dead, replaced by secular materialism, or in a society where Christianity has been hollowed out by an emotionally satisfying but largely counterfeit version of the faith? Is it better to have nominal Christianity, or no Christianity at all? I don't think this is an easy question to answer. On the one hand, I was deeply impressed by Kierkegaard's "Attack Upon Christendom," in which he denounced the state Lutheran church as antithetical to real Christianity. His point, more or less, was that insofar as institutionalized Christianity leads people to believe that by going through the motions of a social Christianity, they have become true Christians, the experience of Christianity inoculates the individual against the real thing. On the other hand, the thought of raising my children in a place in which the Christian faith, or any religious faith, is largely alien to the community is troubling to me.

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Comments
Ben
October 15, 2009 10:08 PM

Crustacean,

Could you explain why Sullivan isn't "really" defending Christianity?
You're just saying it as though everyone here is supposed to automatically know what you are talking about and agree with you.

Jon
October 15, 2009 10:13 PM

Re: The fact that Andrew Sullivan thinks that what he's defending is Christianity is just one of the several things that make him at least as horrible ....

I have no idea what you are trying to get at here, unless your defintion of Christianity is so narrow that it excludes Catholics and other traditional Christians (or perhaps relies on the Gospel according to Rush), in which case you probably think Rod, myself and quite a few other posters here are a pack of heathens as well.

Jon
October 15, 2009 10:37 PM

On a personal note, I will only be visiting the blog sporadically for the next two weeks as I am off on a major roadtrip, the end points of which are Baltimore, Tucson and Boise (with lots of stops in between of course).
Take care all, and I'll check in when I can.

TTT
October 15, 2009 11:21 PM

Maybe you should write Philip Pullman fan-fiction... Your daydreams about Lyra are doubtless the only play you get ... and it shows.

I have no idea what you're babbling about, and I doubt you do either. Of course, when someone points out the on-its-face absurdity of claiming atheism to be a religion, it's probably easier for you to just degenerate into this sort of glossolalia than to admit you were wrong.

salvage
October 18, 2009 10:53 AM

> This indicates that the church had much less of a hegemony over politics than you seem to believe it had and that the story is much more complicated.

BEEP BEEP BEEP oh that’s the sound of you backing up isn’t it? So we’ve gone from they didn’t rule to “less of a hegemony”.

Sorry Sparky, religion, YOUR religion ruled Europe and it made it a truly miserable place rife with ignorance and superstition. Your god, your Jesus started a church that launched countless wars. That’s a fact, the end.

>Also, you've already admitted that wars before modern times had many different causes and that even religious wars weren't purely religious.

Nope, there are always other factors that go along for the ride.

>Many pre-modern wars were simply over territory and had nothing to do with religion at all.

Nope. Some king picked by your god or Pope had to sign off on the war. War runs on money and ideology, guess who provided that?

>This completely destroys your accusation against Christianity.

Ha! Ha! Yes! Christianity had nothing to do with politics and war in Europe! My argument is completely destroyed!

Only one PHD? That’s all they gave you? You seem smart enough for at least two.

>In the end, your argument is far too simplistic.

What did you jsut say?

"simply over territory"

AHAHAHAHA! PHd? Are you absolutely sure about that? I have so many doubts. While territory is obviously a factor nothing is ever that simple in history.

> I seriously doubt that the number of deaths in pre-modern wars were more than in modern wars.

You are wrong. They were. The battles were bloody and the aftermath worse and the body counts would continue long after the fighting was done. Crops ruins, homes burnt to the ground, how many people did that kill? All the able bodied men hacked to pieces leaving their wives and children at the mercy of the winning army or whatever malevolence roamed the country side. Think about sieges back then and what they involved, the first biological warfare attacks for instance.

>But your argument is wrong either way because most wars in pre-modern times weren't religious wars in the first place.

Once again you ignore divine right of kings, why do you do that? See every war in those eras traced back to a king, a Christian king, chosen to rule in your god's stead. That was the law back then, the law from your god.

So tell me, how does that make any war launched by a god chosen king less than religious?

> Thanks for illustrating yet again that the claim that atheists are intellectual superior is false.

AHAHAHAH! YES! I am dumb because of a typo! Only people who know a lot about history can spell perfectly.

Wow, I’m gonna start calling you Doctor SuperSmart CleverPants.

>Actually, Jesus warned of wars and rumors of wars and false prophets.

No Doctor SuperSmart CleverPants, Jesus left behind a church that made actual wars and oh so many prophets, all as false as he was so I guess at least there’s a consistency.

What did Jesus prophesy anyway? You do know he didn't say anything original or even useful right? Say, why did he blame demons for illness rather than bacteria?

> I think your responses have sufficiently proved my points about your ignorance of history, not to mention your lack of maturity.

Yes! You really showed me with the whole typo thing. Really, right in my place.

Why won’t you talk about the divine right of kings and how that made countless wars and other evils? Or address any of my other points?

Oh right, the typo, you didn't really need to prove anything else other than I can't spell goodly.

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About Crunchy Con

Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.

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