A jihadi walks into a stripper bar...
Monday November 9, 2009
Categories: Islamic terrorism
Did you read that Nidal Hasan was known to frequent a strip bar near Fort Hood in these past months? Excerpt: Hasan's presence at the club paints a starkly different portrait of the alleged killer from that offered by his...
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About Crunchy Con
Rod Dreher is an editorial columnist for the Dallas Morning News, and author of "Crunchy Cons" (Crown Forum), a nonfiction book about conservatives, most of them religious, whose faith and political convictions sometimes put them at odds with mainstream conservatives. The views expressed in this blog are his own.
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Wow, a strip bar owner and a stripper/hooker (who didn't know the guy's name) are the main sources for this story. Wasn't Fox able to chat to the meth addict in the alley or some other reliable source?
It's a complex story. I don't expect Fox to sort it out for us. If this story is true--and I'm highly dubious, although I've never met the hooker/stripper myself--it doesn't really say much despite the protestations of your counterterrorism source.
Dr Andrew Sullivan often writes that fundamentalism and sexual obsession/repression/misuse tend to go together. Hence, states with some of the highest rates of porn use and divorce are -- the bible belt. I've seen examples myself, in my conservative Christian context. This story does not surprise me.
Okay, let's see:
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan were Muslims.
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan went to the same radical mosque.
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan ascribed to fundamentalist Islamic teaching.
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan drank alcohol in violation of Islamic teaching.
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan frequented bars, also a violation.
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan liked their strippers, also a major (no pun intended) violation.
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan enjoyed the fruits of American life while denouncing the governmant.
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan had al Qaeda ties and sympathies.
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan trained extensively in firearms.
Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan were guilty of rank hypocrisy regarding the superiority of a lifestyle that they repudiated by their behaviors.
It's starting to look like a...PROFILE. But hey, as General Casey tells us, diversity is good. Who needs a monolithic Islamic community in the Army, not when we can have terrorists to leaven the tedium that marks Army life. Fraggers aren't bad men. They're just misunderstood.
Re: In that sense, an otherwise highly devout Muslim who suddenly starts going to bars or strip clubs could be seen as in the final stages of preparing to martyr himself -- the idea being that he can sin with impunity, because he knows he's about to undertake an act that will cleanse his sin and grant him paradise.
I have no particular brief for Islam as a belief system, to say the least, but I don't believe this is in any way an authoritative Muslim teaching. It's blazingly silly, for one thing, and Islam, for all its faults, is not a religion of silliness.
I can certainly see why this, or something like it, could explain at a _psychological_ level why the 9/11 hijackers go to the strip club, but not at a _theological_ level.
Oops, that should have read,
"Both the 9/11 hijackers and Nidal Hasan enjoyed the fruits of American life while denouncing the governmEnt."
Ah yes, the Antinomian Heresy.
Guess those Jihadists borrow more from Christianity than either side would like to admit, eh?
And Rod, this obsessed posting about Nidal's religion, coming hard on the heels of the bereaved mother's photo, looks not a little bit hypocritical.
It's as though you're trying to eat your cake and call cake-eaters undisciplined fatties.
Rod, your post is perfectly logical, but falls on the deaf ears of the PC goons.
Would there even be strip bars if it wasn't for the Military, College and Professional Athletes, Hollywood Actors, and Musicians and Singers?
Seriously? Seems every story involving a strip club involves:
A. A member of the US Military.
B. A College or Professional Athelete
C. A Hollywood Actor/Entertainer
D. A Hip-Hop or Rock Star
From the linked article:
"He wasnt too loud like some of our other customers, or sleazy. He didn't try to take any of us home and he was respectful," she said. "I think he mostly came here to kill some time and just relax. He stood out here because he was much more reserved than our other customers.
"I just can't believe that he's the one who killed all those people. You know, he tipped every girl as she came off the stage after her dance. He was a really good tipper."
Getting a preview of the houri, perhaps?
I like the profile suggestion, but let's be fair and equitable about it. Any devout practitioner of any religious faith, be it Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu, who follows rituals of piety rigidly while also engaging in flagrant violations, especially if they involve sex, drugs, alcohol, etc., should be considered a high-profile potential terrorist. Ditto for atheists seen going to church on a regular basis. Those who don't really believe in anything, including atheism, but are just into porn, are probably harmless.
Those who don't really believe in anything, including atheism, but are just into porn, are probably harmless.
chuckle...
So how does one determine if the self-defined devout Muslim who goes to strip clubs is preparing for martyrdom or just not really all that devout and likes to look at mostly naked ladies?
"So how does one determine if the self-defined devout Muslim who goes to strip clubs is preparing for martyrdom or just not really all that devout and likes to look at mostly naked ladies?"
One looks at the rest of the profile. The adding of radical affiliations to the strip club and drinking behavior raises the risk. The militating against the United States, even more so.
One looks at the rest of the profile. The adding of radical affiliations to the strip club and drinking behavior raises the risk. The militating against the United States, even more so.
How about asking to be discharged because he doesn't want to be part of fighting Muslims?
Seems like that should be pretty high on the list too.
Darn shame the Army didn't just say, "Okay, have a nice life," and let him leave.
Dear Gerald Nadal,
I believe the correct spelling is "gummint."
And the correct spelling of your name is "Gerard", not "Gerald." Sorry.
This is no different than the right wing preacher found in a gay bar. This is no surprise. The more fundamentalist ones religious orientation, the more likely one is to have problems with sexual impulse control.
Hector:
Q4:74 - Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Who so fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward.
Q.9:111 -Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.
Sahih Bukhari 53:353: "Allah guarantees him who strives in His cause and whose motivation for going out is nothing but Jihad in His cause and belief in His word, that He will admit him into Paradise if martyred or bring him back to his dwelling place with what he gains of reward and booty."
Tafsir of Ibn Kathir:
"As Jihad involves death and the killing of men, Allah draws our attention to the fact that the disbelief and polytheism of the disbelievers and their avoidance of Allah's path are far worse than killing. Thus Allah says, "And Fitnah (unbelief) is worse than killing." This is to say that shirk (Polytheism) is more serious and worse than killing (volume 2, page 116)"
Obama seemed more upset about George Tiller's murder than the murder and injuring of several dozen people in this instance. Why could he not express the same level of aghastness for this attack? Something is not right about this president.
No, actually, Rod, I wasn't thinking any such thing--I was thinking "how the heck can Rod be printing drivel like this?" Feels pretty sleazy to me.
I tend to agree that there is more likely to be a psychological explanation than a theological one. And I'm especially amused at the prooftext-citing non-Muslims who think they can understand an entirely different religion, ethnicity, and culture.
Oh for pity's sake. Now Obama isn't showing the proper level of grief to suit people whom he can't please no matter what he does. I am so sick of the petty judgmentalism of his chronic critics. You people need to find a real hobby.
I too, was baffled by the behavior of the strip-club frequenting 9/11 hijackers. Certainly their behavior demonstrated the deep sexism of their belief system, but the idea that this may be a "tell" for spotting potential terrorist types is interesting. I certainly don;t see it as a "sure thing" but it is thought-provoking.
While we do have to be on the watch for terrorist cells, I think that there is considerable danger from what we have seen here. Hassan doesn't appear to have had any formal ties to Al Qaeda or related organizations. Instead he was a dort of Lee Harvey Oswald-type. A troubled loner who wanted to be someone "special" and saw the quickest route to both fame and Paradise as an act of barbarism that he cooked up on his own.
So he prayed five times a day and that proves he is crazy Muslim. So he went to a strip joint and that proves he is crazy Jihadi. Have you guys considered that he may be just plain crazy? Lot of folks go crazy and do horrible things.
And Heritage Hills, the President made an appropriate statement and is going to the funeral to honor the fallen soldiers. What do you want him to do - cry on national tv? Sheesh.. Sometimes the eye sees what it wants to see.
JohnE- This was a chubby, bald guy who did not look like a killer. He had just received a $200,000 education. I am betting that the military discounted him as a threat and wanted to make its money back.
Steve
Mujahideen consorting with women they happen to not be married to and visiting establishments which serve alcohol is rather common, actually, at least in Iraq. I don't know whether that convoluted religious reasoning would pass for logic to most Muslims. But then again, most Muslims reject out of hand that non-Salafist, let alone Christians and Jews, can even be called infidels, or that received Islamic tradition permits the killing of women and children in time of war (defensive or not.) These are two common precepts of Al Qaeda and its ilk and they sound as deranged to most Muslims as they do to you and me.
Like as not, this is just the equivalent of a televangelist sleeping with his worship assistant. More psychology than religion, though religion can certainly be (mis)used to prop up the psychology in cases like this.
Did y'all catch this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/us/10inquire.html?_r=1&hp
o noz! The "me" above is not the one-and-only **me**--it is merely me, metanous. Sorry, Me.
Maybe the CIA needs to open some strip clubs in major cities.
A Catholic can go to a strip bar, obtain absolution, do the penance and be guaranteed entry to paradise. By the demented logic expressed in this article, such a Catholic could be considered "devout" because he knows he is going to paradise.
I don't doubt the counterterrorism guy's statement about how these self-immolating idiots think, just saying that a reputable Muslim scholar would not say that drinking, whoring, raping and pillaging are A-OK as long as you intend to martyr yourself at some future date.
The odd thing is that descriptions of the Muslim Paradise do sound a bit like a brothel.
Look, I'm not sure about my position here, and I'm really just putting this up as a talking point, but I wonder whether the best way to deal with Islam in the West is to refuse to take it seriously - to subject it to ceaseless ridicule and mockery.
The one thing that Islamic extremists seem to crave is to be taken seriously - to disguise the fact that they are the embittered detritus of an inferior civilisation. That seems to me why they are so keen on types of terrorism that are technological, symbolic and/or macho. Look; in the UK, if I and a dozen friends wanted to cause maximum carnage and disruption of the economy and society, we would go round one night and leave concrete blocks on major rail lines. That would shut down the rail system. If we climbed down through the sewers and disused tunnels and left blocks on London underground lines, that would effectively shut down the capital. Starting a hundred fires, using petrol, not high-tech bombs, in different parts of a city would overwhelm the fire service. The point is that Islamists don't do these things, because they are into posturing. Why do we see pictures of them doing all this army-type training in order to blow themselves up? - I thought the houris were there ready for them - they don't need to be buff.
I read in Freakonomics that it was merciless ridicule, rather than disapproval, that destroyed the Ku Klux Klan.
I'm glad to say that this sort of thing seems to be happening in Britain. I was watching TV recently, and there was a comedy with a ocnversation between a thicko Muslim and an imam:
Thicko: "These 72 virgins are goin' to be, like, hot, aren't they? I mean, like, that Tracy what works in the bread shop, she's a virgin, and I wouldn't want 72 lookin' like that"
Imam: "I can assure you, zey will be ze most fittest, and most delectable, dick-ready virgins you can imagine".
On second thoughts, not just like a brothel, but like a cross between a brothel and St. Trinians*, making it all the more comical.
*A 1950s British comedy set in a girls' boarding school.
"I wonder whether the best way to deal with Islam in the West is to refuse to take it seriously - to subject it to ceaseless ridicule and mockery."
I think CS Lewis did that when he created the character of Rabadash the Ridiculous in "The Horse and His Boy."
He also resurrected the figure of the Noble Moor in Emeth in "The Last Battle."
Chuck,
Your comparison of Catholic confession to Muslim martyrdom is foolish. A Catholic cannot go to confession and instantly receive forgiveness unless he has true contrition. To engage in premeditated sin with a plan to simply go to confession afterwards is itself a sin called "presumption".
I'm not sure if Islam allows such premeditation which is why I will not comment on it.
Why do we see pictures of them doing all this army-type training in order to blow themselves up? - I thought the houris were there ready for them - they don't need to be buff.
Indoctrination so that they don't decide not to blow themselves up at the last minute?
Re: A Catholic can go to a strip bar, obtain absolution, do the penance and be guaranteed entry to paradise
False. I'm not Catholic, but if I understand correctly, no one is guaranteed entry into Heaven before the fact. We can tell after someone died if they are in heaven (that's what canonization does) but we don't know before any of us dies if we are going to heaven or hell. That would be the sin of presumption.
I don't trust the habit of proof-texting from Islamic scriptures, largely because I can see how dumb this habit is when it's applied to my own religion. You cannot meaningfully cite a Christian proof-text unless you know the context of the verse, how it has been traditionally interpreted, and how it fits together with the rest of Christian scripture, theology, and teaching. I would think the same would be true of Islam.
Appalachian Prof,
I think C.S. Lewis was drawing at least as much on Canaanite and Phoenician religion (specifically their polytheism and practice of human sacrifice) in his picture of the Calormenes as he was on Islam.
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