Christians need to do a better job of showing abortion advocates as evil people and abortion as a satanic ordeal.
People do bad things and they are aware that what they are doing is evil. It’s an old story inside and outside of a Biblical perspective.
Abortion for convenience is as evil as evil gets. Those that push it are either grossly ignorant of reality or absolutely evil people.
There’s no grey area. Abortion as birth control is murder. And murder is always wrong. It is always evil perpetrated on a victim.
And in keeping with those facts, a teaching of apostolic history towards those kinds of people and their practices is madatory.
Preaching the Gospel to the lost and converting them to faith in Christ will curb the influence of other evil people and evil practices. It is one evil person convinceed to stop being evil (at a time) that is dealt with.
Abortion as birth control is satanic. There is no doubt about that.
The Gospel defeats satanic influences.
One “person” at a time.

There are no “evil people”. There are only things that Mere_Me and his God do not like.
“To set up what you like against what you do not like, this is the disease of the mind.”
Mere_me rants of abortion “as birth control” and for “convenience” but there is not an iota of evidence that Dr. Tiller or Dr. Carhart ever performed abortions for these reasons.
Judge Judy says, “If it doesn’t make sense it probably isn’t true.”
It makes no sense to say that a woman would wait until late in her pregnancy, when the ordeal, cost, and risk of dying are much greater, to have a “convenient” abortion.
It makes no sense to say that God wants a healthy adult woman to die so that a damaged embryo may be born to live in misery, if it lives very long at all.

Ladies and gentlemen, The Barking Unicorn.
Ignorant or evil?
Let’s take a look at an abortion in progress and make a choice.

“Christians need to do a better job of showing abortion advocates as evil people and abortion as a satanic ordeal.”
So we can have another Boondock Saint walk into Dr. Carhart’s church and blow away the Satanic, evil one?
And Shepherds we shall be
For thee, my Lord, for thee.
Power hath descended forth from Thy hand
Our feet may swiftly carry out Thy commands.
So we shall flow a river forth to Thee
And teeming with souls shall it ever be.
In Nomeni Patri Et Fili Spiritus Sancti.
*BANG*

As Jesus said, certain demons will only be cast out with prayer and fasting.

Over 50% of abortions in the US are done as a result of “failed birth control”, far greater than any done for “poverty” reasons. Also, with modern neonatal technology, premature babies as young as 6 months are able to survive and live healthy lives, consequently, 99.9% of late term abortions are an act of selfish convenience.
The pro abortion folks can scream all they want about “danger of the mothers’ health”, but it’s a scam, as less than 1% of the cases would actually result in death of the mother. Furthermore, every “late term” abortion could be replaced with a C-Section and intensive neonatal care. Expensive, certainly, but not even in the ballpark of the value of one human life.
To call the act of abortion anything other than its real name, evil, is to live and think outside of reality, and that goes for rape and incest as well, which also are cop outs. Think about it. If anyone REALLY believes that killing a baby in the womb is murder, why would it fail to be murder regardless of the circumstances? That’s not to say it would be easy for a mother to raise the child of her rapist, however, Dcn. Greg once posted about a raped nun who did just that; realizing that “somebody” had to teach this child love. Be it a saintly nun or adoptive parents, plenty of love awaits all of the unborn, regardless of the circumstances.
Ds, you need to get your facts right, as EVERY pro-life group in America denounced the killer of Dr. Tiller, far more than we can say about most of our spineless politicians when it comes to abortion. Ann Coulter said it best (paraphrase), “I personally don’t believe in killing late term abortion docs, but who I am to interfere with anyone’s choice.”
As for this quote Barking Unicorn:
“It makes no sense to say that God wants a healthy adult woman to die so that a damaged embryo may be born to live in misery, if it lives very long at all.”
What a dozy! For starters, it would be a very rare case, as I mentioned above, when the mother’s life would actually be in danger of DEATH without an abortion. For those of us who “know” God, at least in the sense of trust and love, there is no such thing as a “damaged embryo.” If you do any study into Down Syndrome Children, you will come to learn that many/most “damaged embryos” become a great source of transformation to parents, family, and friends, consequently, precious gifts. How could it not be, since all mentally deformed humans are incapable of sin, consequently, a continuous source of “The Image of God.” What a blessing, as the now unselfish poster mom of Trig Palin knows only too well.
If I had to guess Sarah Palin’s “vocation per God’s Will”, it would be the mother of Trig/ courageous witness to pro life.
Lastly, from the core of my being I believe there is no greater fight against abortion than the Eucharist, as a battle this big, this evil, this satanic will only ever be “won” by supernatural means.

There are evil people: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Charles Manson, Dr. Tiller, etc., etc., a sad long list of evil. Of course God hates sin, and sin is a fact that people do, but when someone conciously and willingly does evil things, that person is evil. Is there redemption for such people? Yes there is in Christ, but that does not change the fact that they are evil.

We seem to be talking past each other.
Yes, lots and lots of first-trimester abortions are essentially forms of birth control. Late-term abortions are overwhelmingly for different reasons. People who just wanted to abort will abort earlier in the process. These fetuses are overwhelmingly very damaged.
However, that doesn’t mean that terminating such pregnancies is not still evil.
If we are going to condemn this practice, let’s do so for the right reasons.

“Think about it. If anyone REALLY believes that killing a baby in the womb is murder, why would it fail to be murder regardless of the circumstances?”
Then, if abortion is murder, shall we push for a law to prosecute the women who willingly procure the murder of their unborn children? If not, why not?

You have to wonder…if we had a list like this of Muslim terrorist attacks on American soil, would we still permit Muslims to have unrestricted movement?
http://www.feminist.org/rrights/ncap_attacksproviders.html
What is going to happen after the next murder of an abortion provider?

“Ds, you need to get your facts right, as EVERY pro-life group in America denounced the killer of Dr. Tiller, far more than we can say about most of our spineless politicians when it comes to abortion.”
Oh yes, Klaire. But CAIR and many other Muslim groups have also denounced every Muslim terrorist attack that has happened in the past generation. Do we accept that? Of course not! It’s just words on paper. They keep preaching that the Great Satan needs to be stopped.
Words that seem pretty familiar here in the comments on this blog posting.

Mere_Me, I believe there are both evil actions and evil people. However, I believe labelling someone as “evil” because they believe or act differently than we do is very dangerous. For one thing, it is a form of hubris to be too quick to judge others.
As for labelling someone or something “Satanic” I refer to the great Christian writer J.R.R. Tolkien who thought it was unhealthy and dangerous “to dwell too much on the ways of evil people” and for this reason disapproved heartily of his friend C.S. Lewis’s book, “The Screwtape Letters.”
Tolkien held that someone who tried to get into “the mind of the devil” even imaginatively as Lewis did might be in danger of being corrupted by the devil. Think of the character of Sauruman in “The Lord of the Rings” who studied the ways of the enemy so obsessively that he turned into what he originally hated.
Just something to consider before pronouncing judgment.

Hey Mthompson, are you Chris Matthews incognito? Just askin’.
Actually, it’s a very good question, so glad you asked. In the real world, as well as Catholic teaching, an “immoral” law is never, in actuality, “real law.” An immoral law is license, which many moral relativists, confuse with not only authentic law but more importantly “freedom” (it isn’t freedom either, but this isn’t the time for my “freedom vs. license speech”).
In answer to your question, here’s the way I see it. Asking if women who have abortions should be charged with murder is asking the wrong question, simply because it’s an illicit ‘law’. America being a nation of laws, it would be un American (and illegal) to charge women for a “legal” action, despite its immorality. The only reason this question can become a “gottcha” game is because it’s IS an immoral law.
The solution isn’t to put women who have abortions into jails, but to undo Roe v Wade, (and of course offer any help the women need), which was never constitutional in the first place. If that would ever become the case (which I doubt), in fairness to answering your question, I would have to say, “Yes, IF abortion again becomes illegal in the US, especially the with advent of modern technology, and a paucity of American children to adopt, with copious waiting loving parents, I would have to say it should be charged as a crime. While I will always have compassion for the mothers, there is plenty of help available for the mothers, with only a lone voice for the unborn child. My view would be to help both, which doesn’t require any killing, only love.
And speaking of love, it’s what the whole abortion debate is really all about at its core, the rejection of God’s love, via Life in his image.
All said, even if every women were charged with “illegal abortion”, in the big picture, it’s for the most part meaningless compared to the justice of God, which is why, it’s never authentic love to be an accomplice in abortion, be it by our votes or driving our friends to the abortuary. I sometimes wonder if the pro abortion folks of this country ever really stop and think , despite as horrible as it would be to have scissors stabbed into our heads (all late term aborted babies are sentient ), that the women is in point of fact, one of if not the greatest victim of abortion. It’s as much for post abortive women that we pro lifers will never give up the fight, for after all, what good would it do to have even one legal abortion at the cost of losing eternal salvation?
One last note, Catholics are never obligated to follow immoral law, which is pretty much what the recently signed interfaith Manhattan Declaration is all about.
http://www.manhattandeclaration.org/

Hey Mthompson, are you Chris Matthews incognito? Just askin’.
Actually, it’s a very good question, so glad you asked. In the real world, as well as Catholic teaching, an “immoral” law is never, in actuality, “real law.” An immoral law is license, which many moral relativists, confuse with not only authentic law but more importantly “freedom” (it isn’t freedom either, but this isn’t the time for my “freedom vs. license speech”).
In answer to your question, here’s the way I see it. Asking if women who have abortions should be charged with murder is asking the wrong question, simply because it’s an illicit ‘law’. America being a nation of laws, it would be un American (and illegal) to charge women for a “legal” action, despite its immorality. The only reason this question can become a “gottcha” game is because it’s IS an immoral law.
The solution isn’t to put women who have abortions into jails, but to undo Roe v Wade, (and of course offer any help the women need), which was never constitutional in the first place. If that would ever become the case (which I doubt), in fairness to answering your question, I would have to say, “Yes, IF abortion again becomes illegal in the US, especially the with advent of modern technology, and a paucity of American children to adopt, with copious waiting loving parents, I would have to say it should be charged as a crime. While I will always have compassion for the mothers, there is plenty of help available for the mothers, with only a lone voice for the unborn child. My view would be to help both, which doesn’t require any killing, only love.
And speaking of love, it’s what the whole abortion debate is really all about at its core, the rejection of God’s love, via Life in his image.
All said, even if every women were charged with “illegal abortion”, in the big picture, it’s for the most part meaningless compared to the justice of God, which is why, it’s never authentic love to be an accomplice in abortion, be it by our votes or driving our friends to the abortuary. I sometimes wonder if the pro abortion folks of this country ever really stop and think , despite as horrible as it would be to have scissors stabbed into our heads (all late term aborted babies are sentient ), that the women is in point of fact, one of if not the greatest victim of abortion. It’s as much for post abortive women that we pro lifers will never give up the fight, for after all, what good would it do to have even one legal abortion at the cost of losing eternal salvation?
One last note, Catholics are never obligated to follow immoral law, which is pretty much what the recently signed interfaith Manhattan Declaration is all about.
http://www.manhattandeclaration.org/

Oh yes, Klaire. But CAIR and many other Muslim groups have also denounced every Muslim terrorist attack that has happened in the past generation. Do we accept that? Of course not! It’s just words on paper. They keep preaching that the Great Satan needs to be stopped.
Ds, it’s because the greatest of evil does so under God’s name. These are monsters, not devout followers of Islam. But you see how it works? People like you “believe” that it’s “regliously motivated”, consequently, have the distorted view you do have against authentic love, Christ.
Alice, we are by Christian faith/Scripture called to “judge” actions, just not souls. Anyone, and especailly those with a voice that reaches many, who stays silent in the face of abortion is objectively not only guilty of the sin of omission, but part of the act.

“Ds, it’s because the greatest of evil does so under God’s name. These are monsters, not devout followers of Islam. But you see how it works? People like you “believe” that it’s “regliously motivated”, consequently, have the distorted view you do have against authentic love, Christ.”
From where I sit, both sides (Islamic terrorists and Christian terrorists) are religious extremists, victims of the same disease. Those who pull the trigger or detonate the bomb may well be the proximate cause of the deaths, and therefore the most culpable. But those who stand on the sidelines and call the targets “Satanic” are merely cheerleaders who, after their prayers are answered, discover buyers’ remorse.
Let’s take the example of Dr. Tiller. For years Christians of all stripes prayed that God would intervene and stop the deaths of the unborn children that were being killed, in their view, by Dr. Tiller. Many people lined the streets outside his clinic on an almost daily basis praying, day after day, for God to intervene and stop the killing.
Guess what? God answered their prayers, Klaire. God sent someone to kill Dr. Tiller. And when that happened all of those good folks who had been on the street praying that God would stop the killings suddenly realized that their prayers had been answered in a very abrupt, but very Biblical manner. And most of them immediately renounced the person who did the killing, the person who God sent to answer their prayers.
Mark Twain offers a wonderful story about the power of prayer, as well as the hidden meaning behind what are seemingly benign platitudes.
http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/warprayer.html
I will post it here, with apologies for its length. But I believe it is quite appropriate for those who pray for an end to Dr. Carhart’s work in the abortion clinic to read through this story and consider the weight of their words…and the real meaning behind them.
—
The War Prayer
by Mark Twain
It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety’s sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.
Sunday morning came — next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams — visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation
*God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest! Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!*
Then came the “long” prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory –
An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher’s side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued with his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, “Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!”
The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside — which the startled minister did — and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:
“I come from the Throne — bearing a message from Almighty God!” The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. “He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import — that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of — except he pause and think.
“God’s servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two — one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this — keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor’s crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.
“You have heard your servant’s prayer — the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it — that part which the pastor — and also you in your hearts — fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: ‘Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!’ That is sufficient. the *whole* of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory–*must* follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!
“O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle — be Thou near them! With them — in spirit — we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it — for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
(*After a pause.*) “Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!”
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.

“Yes, IF abortion again becomes illegal in the US, especially the with advent of modern technology, and a paucity of American children to adopt, with copious waiting loving parents, I would have to say it should be charged as a crime.”
Let us assume for the moment that such a situation existed. Would you agree that most if not all abortions require premeditation (setting appointments, procuring funding, arranging transportation, etc.)? If so, then under the above scenario should a mother who procures an illegal abortion be charged with first degree murder and be subject to capital punishment if that state has the provision?

Response to MThompson:
QUOTE: Let us assume for the moment that such a situation existed. Would you agree that most if not all abortions require premeditation (setting appointments, procuring funding, arranging transportation, etc.)?
Yes and no. Yes if we are talking only about clinic abortions. Certainly a no in reference to all of the abortions as a result of abortifacient contraceptives. We now also live in an age where there are many chemical abortions (morning after pill), which one could rationally argue require “less thought” than a clinic abortion.
QUOTE/QUESTION: If so, then under the above scenario should a mother who procures an illegal abortion be charged with first degree murder and be subject to capital punishment if that state has the provision?
As for first degree, absolutely not, as even many abortions done for convenience and or failed birth control are often done without full knowledge of the intrinsic evil, many thanks to our pro abortion cultural cheerleaders, with Planned Parenthood leading the way. A lot of the teenagers who are really scared are not even told of the available help and alternatives, only encouraged to “get it taken care of.” Having a pro abortion president and first lady only adds more to the cultural mindset that no one should be “punished” with an unwanted pregnancy.
You do know don’t you, that even if Roe v Wade WAS revoked, abortion rights would still go back to the states, with enough keeping it legal (at least enough to not have to worry about not being able to find a legal abortion clinic?
As far as capital punishment, even in the case of a women who had 10 abortions as birth control, who could say? I’m not even convinced Dr. Tiller had full culpability, albeit it doesn’t make his acts any less evil. I take the Church’s stand on capital punishment, so wouldn’t be quick to pronounce the death penalty on anyone, especially pregnant women who like all murder cases, would need to be evaluate on a case by case basis (re: first degree).
On the other hand, if I were a judge, I would have NO PROBLEM handing down a death sentence to the 7 Supreme Court Justices who brought Roe v Wade to law. Subsequently, I consider any current day pro abortion judge a threat to “society” and well worthy of consideration of the death penalty,(not like it will ever happen as long as abortion is legal).

A target rich environment you provide, Klaire. Allow me to examine it fully.
My earlier post: QUOTE: Let us assume for the moment that such a situation existed. Would you agree that most if not all abortions require premeditation (setting appointments, procuring funding, arranging transportation, etc.)?
Klaire: Yes and no. Yes if we are talking only about clinic abortions. Certainly a no in reference to all of the abortions as a result of abortifacient contraceptives. We now also live in an age where there are many chemical abortions (morning after pill), which one could rationally argue require “less thought” than a clinic abortion.
Stipulated.
From my earlier post: QUOTE/QUESTION: If so, then under the above scenario should a mother who procures an illegal abortion be charged with first degree murder and be subject to capital punishment if that state has the provision?
Klaire: As for first degree, absolutely not, as even many abortions done for convenience and or failed birth control are often done without full knowledge of the intrinsic evil, many thanks to our pro abortion cultural cheerleaders, with Planned Parenthood leading the way. A lot of the teenagers who are really scared are not even told of the available help and alternatives, only encouraged to “get it taken care of.” Having a pro abortion president and first lady only adds more to the cultural mindset that no one should be “punished” with an unwanted pregnancy.
An interesting approach to the law. Lack of knowledge of the evil of one’s act can be brought to bear in consideration of the gravity of the act and the punishment for it. So, just to clarify, if the mother in question goes about planning for the abortion, obtaining funding, and scheduling an appointment to terminate her (for sake of argument) 20 week old unborn child, in your mind she may not be fully congnizant of the evil of her actions.
OK. Let’s then say that she encounters a group from Operation Rescue outside of the abortion clinic. This group confronts her with pictures of several aborted fetuses at various ages, one of which is 20 weeks. They also confront her with a picture from an ultrasound of a child at 20 weeks gestation. They also shove into her hand a brochure outlining the same information you have imparted…that abortion is a moral evil.
This woman then goes ahead and has the abortion, in complete disregard of the information she has been given. Is she now, in your mind, eligible to be charged with first degree murder?
Klaire: You do know don’t you, that even if Roe v Wade WAS revoked, abortion rights would still go back to the states, with enough keeping it legal (at least enough to not have to worry about not being able to find a legal abortion clinic?
Yes. I am sure you also know that a number of states will enact laws to try to prevent their residents from crossing state lines to obtain an abortion, or to prevent their residents from transporting another person across state lines for that purpose. After all, if the decision devolves back to the states, any law can be passed that restricts abortion in any manner. They could even pass a law in a state declaring abortion to be first degree murder, punishable by death.
Klaire: As far as capital punishment, even in the case of a women who had 10 abortions as birth control, who could say?
The law must say one way or another, Klaire. Vague laws are generally more trouble than they are worth, and are generally challenged until they are clarified or overturned.
Let me ask you this. If a woman gave birth to ten children, each time taking the child and dismembering it minutes after it was born, would you believe that woman to be worthy of the death penalty? Why or why not, and how is she any different than Jeffrey Dahmer?
Klaire: I’m not even convinced Dr. Tiller had full culpability, albeit it doesn’t make his acts any less evil. I take the Church’s stand on capital punishment, so wouldn’t be quick to pronounce the death penalty on anyone, especially pregnant women who like all murder cases, would need to be evaluate on a case by case basis (re: first degree).
That is consistent with the current state of criminal law regarding murder.
Klaire: On the other hand, if I were a judge, I would have NO PROBLEM handing down a death sentence to the 7 Supreme Court Justices who brought Roe v Wade to law. Subsequently, I consider any current day pro abortion judge a threat to “society” and well worthy of consideration of the death penalty,(not like it will ever happen as long as abortion is legal).
And church teaching be damned, eh?

And church teaching be damned, eh?
Let me remind you that owing to the unconstitutional decision of 7 Supreme CourtJustices, 50 million (and counting) babies have been killed in the womb, which would be more than equivilent of each contributing to the deaths of the Hitler.
Of course my comment was somewhat tounge and cheek, being that regardless, abortion IS legal in this country, once again proving the point of the perils of illicit laws. Also, the way our justice system is setup, it probably WOULD be easier to have them convicted than removed from the bench where they continue to do more damage.
As I said earlier Mthompson, the abortion issue is never going to be “solved” by legality, only through Christ, one heart at a time, as it’s way too big for any of us at the human level. That why prayer, and of course the Eucharist, is so vital.

“That why prayer, and of course the Eucharist, is so vital. ”
I’m curious, Klaire. Do you accept the murder of Dr. Tiller as God’s answers to the prayers of those who spent so many years on their knees, both in front of his clinic and elsewhere, praying that the killing would stop?

I’m curious, Klaire. Do you accept the murder of Dr. Tiller as God’s answers to the prayers of those who spent so many years on their knees, both in front of his clinic and elsewhere, praying that the killing would stop?
Heavens no ds! I actually wrote quite extensively about this on Dcn. Greg’s old blog around the date he was killed. God would never ‘answer’ a pray in the form of another evil act, although, in his great mercy, he could certainly “allow” it.
God does allow evil and what we do know via Scripture (Romans 8:28), is that for those who love God, all things work for good. So, who but God could say how it all connects in the big picture? I just trust that needless killings, and all suffering, in God’s big plan, work for the greater good, even if it makes no sense in our finite minds. All of those prayers, FOR Tiller, for his change of heart, for his salvation, were not wasted. My best guess is that Tiller was given and responded to redemptive grace.
While I in no way defend his evil acts, I try to wonder if my father was an abortionist (as Tiller’s was), how I would have ended up. He was almost forced by his dad to follow in his footsteps. If I remember correctly, both of his parents were subsequently killed. One could reasonably conclude that he had some mitigating circumstances albeit certainly not an excuse to do late term abortions. Many of us have had tragic pasts and go on to lead normal lives, however not many of us grew up shaped by an abortionist father.
God answers prayers not by what we want, but by what is best for us. We also know from revelation that prayers for spiritual gifts are almost never denied to the faithful, which is why, my best guess remains that in God’s great mercy, Tiller repented before he took his last breath. He had a lot of prayers over the years from many devout American Catholics.
To be really honest, it wouldn’t surprise me if the pro choice lukewarm (at best) American Catholics, especially In KS, will be held more accountable by God for Tiller’s baby killings than Tiller himself, as we Catholics have been “Given much”, especially the Eucharist.

unconstitutional decision of 7 Supreme Court
Klaire, it’s apparent that you don’t understand what the word “unconstitutional” means. By its nature it is constitutional.

What I “mean” Mike is that there is no consitutional basis in the US Constitution for abortion rights. If you would like to teach us how the Federal Goverment, via the constitution, has this right, I’m all ears.
Roe v Wade was a bogus “privacy” issue that should have been left to the state.